this bard needs help. BAD

[carrdrivesyou]

Ok. So I am in a campaign and playing a bard. The other members of the party are a human rogue a half long rogue and a human barbarian. Full casters aren't approved as it is a low magic campaign. We are allowed to use phb DMG and complete arcane to make characters. Start at third using stats of 18 18,16,16,12,8 before racial adjustments. Was thinking mind bender with spell focus in enchantment. But as it stands looks like I'm the parties mage and healer. Help?

[eggynack]

You're probably fine as long as you have a good spell list, and building a 3rd level bard list is pretty easy, given the limited spells known. First, you want to fill the 3 firsts. Silent image is an absolute must, because it's just a ridiculously versatile spell, grease is probably a good choice in a party with two rogues, and for the third slot you have a bit more room to maneuver, so that might be the place for charm person, if you want to do the whole enchantment thing. Next, you have 6 zeroth's. You absolutely want detect magic and prestidigitation, because they're amazing, you'll probably want ghost sound, cause it goes well with silent image, and summon instrument, because it's sweet, you might want mage hand, because there's some utility there that isn't necessarily provided by prestidigitation, and the for the last slot, just do as your heart commands.

Past that, the big thing left is skill choices. You're realistically going to want to fill any gaps left by the two rogues, and there aren't going to be many. You do get diplomacy and bluff though, which are great on a bard, UMD, which is great on anyone, speak language, which almost no one else gets, and a bunch of other choices besides. I'd advise trying to coordinate with the other party members a bit on this one, because otherwise you'll end up with a bunch of characters trying to do the same thing. As is, you probably shouldn't worry too much. Bards are sweet, after all.

[Melville's Book]

Eggynack's mostly got it. However, I'd recommend an actually disempowering choice. Rogues can use each other for flanking, you probably want to avoid your DM getting angry about how OP you are, and you may very well trivialize your fellow party members with Grease, especially if the Fighter is a tripper. Thus, I'd recommend switching Grease for Cure Light Wounds. A wand might be better for that, but sometimes you just really need to be able to run forward and slap somebody's dying body with a healing spell in one round. Helpfully, since the update from 3.0 to 3.5, Bards have been able to change spells out fairly regularly. Switch CLW out for Grease later on.

[carrdrivesyou]

You're probably fine as long as you have a good spell list, and building a 3rd level bard list is pretty easy, given the limited spells known. First, you want to fill the 3 firsts. Silent image is an absolute must, because it's just a ridiculously versatile spell, grease is probably a good choice in a party with two rogues, and for the third slot you have a bit more room to maneuver, so that might be the place for charm person, if you want to do the whole enchantment thing. Next, you have 6 zeroth's. You absolutely want detect magic and prestidigitation, because they're amazing, you'll probably want ghost sound, cause it goes well with silent image, and summon instrument, because it's sweet, you might want mage hand, because there's some utility there that isn't necessarily provided by prestidigitation, and the for the last slot, just do as your heart commands.

Past that, the big thing left is skill choices. You're realistically going to want to fill any gaps left by the two rogues, and there aren't going to be many. You do get diplomacy and bluff though, which are great on a bard, UMD, which is great on anyone, speak language, which almost no one else gets, and a bunch of other choices besides. I'd advise trying to coordinate with the other party members a bit on this one, because otherwise you'll end up with a bunch of characters trying to do the same thing. As is, you probably shouldn't worry too much. Bards are sweet, after all.

I was thinking about going elf for sleep immune and a nice bonus to dex. Staying ranged and using spells like daze and charm to help the meat. Maybe using a cure light or two in case of crits. Skills wise I was thinking going knowledges and socials like know language and bluff and such leaving search and spot and the like for the rogues to abuse.
Feats I was thinking spell focus and greater spell focus enchantment, a nice +2, and a 18 cha nets a +4 , so. Total of +6 on charm spells by third level and I'm clueless on where to go after that. Maybe leadership? Aiming for the mastermind kind of "do my bidding" type.
By the way, we are evil...

[eggynack]

I was thinking about going elf for sleep immune and a nice bonus to dex. Staying ranged and using spells like daze and charm to help the meat. Maybe using a cure light or two in case of crits. Skills wise I was thinking going knowledges and socials like know language and bluff and such leaving search and spot and the like for the rogues to abuse.
Things should be fine as long as you pick up silent image in your list. That spell is just ridiculously versatile, limited in power only by your imagination. I put charm on the list I mentioned, as well as an empty cantrip slot, so those things are also fine. Cure might not be the best idea, as it can be replaced by a cheap wand, but it's not a crippling thing, and it should probably take the place of grease if you want it. The skill allocation also looks reasonable, though you might want to max concentration in addition to whatever else you're doing, because actually casting your spells is an important thing. Elf should probably also be fine, because there aren't enough good feats to make human a must pick race.


Feats I was thinking spell focus and greater spell focus enchantment, a nice +2, and a 18 cha nets a +4 , so. Total of +6 on charm spells by third level and I'm clueless on where to go after that. Maybe leadership? Aiming for the mastermind kind of "do my bidding" type.
By the way, we are evil...
Spell focus isn't great, but as I mentioned above, bards don't get much in the way of good feat options in core. You may want improved initiative too, cause that feat is just generically decent. As for leadership, it's a bit on the brokenly powerful side, so you may want to avoid it if that's going to be a problem.

[Socratov]

Well, if you are the resident mage and healer, don't forget to exchange your fascination for Healing Hymn (CDiv) that way you have a way of healing damage by either strengthening your healing spells or by resting a full day in one night. Even if you take no healing spells it's still very useful for it's full day of resting in one night.

[dextercorvia]

That Healing Hymn is a nice bump to your CLW at low levels. 1d8+9 makes isn't bad healing at 3rd level, for when you really need it. If you are like me, you won't miss fascinate anyway, since you have so many other ways to get people to do you what you want.

It is in CC, rather than CD, though.

[Socratov]

That Healing Hymn is a nice bump to your CLW at low levels. 1d8+9 makes isn't bad healing at 3rd level, for when you really need it. If you are like me, you won't miss fascinate anyway, since you have so many other ways to get people to do you what you want.

It is in CC, rather than CD, though.

don't forget the story before bedtime use, it's an awesome ability.

And yeah I always get those 2 mixed up

[carrdrivesyou]

I have spoken with the DM and Healing Hymn and the like are not approved, only Complete Arcane, The Dungeons Master's Guide, Monster Manual I, and the Player's Handbook are allowed. So as it stands, I've got 100 gold to equip myself.

Also worth a mention, he says that magic items such as wands, potions, and such are rather rare, so buying one would cost 4x book prices. Not sure what the DM is angling at, but this seems to me like he is trying to starve out the characters early on in the campaign.

[dextercorvia]

If you are limited to practically core only, then just focus on picking the best possible spells. Contrary to what many DMs believe, restricting items doesn't make for low magic. In a world where magic items are rare, spells are that much more powerful/essential, and therefore you benefit even more from taking a casting class than usual.