Monk Question

[jjcrpntr]

So I recently started DMing a pathfinder game and things were going pretty well. Few issues but I was pleased. Last weekend we had a new guy join us, a young player. Nice kid, wanted to play a monk so he had made up a monk and asked me to remold his backstory so that it fit in the world/story. I had him be part of a group of Desna monks as Desna is the goddess worshiped by people of travel. The game was going fine until we reached a portion where some RP story elements came into play and one player (not the guy playing the monk but the guy trying to help the young kid learn the game) started arguing with me that no monk would ever follow Desna as she is at best NG and not lawful. My argument was that Monks follow an ideal, and are not tied to a specific deity like a cleric is. This led to a large argument and a blow up to the point where the group is taking a few weeks off (not canceling thankfully). Everyone has talked it out and we're cool, but I wanted to ask you guys.

Am I right? Are monks more tied to an ideal then a deity? Would it make sense for a group of monks that travel a lot to be lawful but follow or give honor to the NG goddess of travel?

Or is the player right in that no monk would follow a non-lawful deity?

[Drathric]

According to the PHB Monks are required to be a Lawful alignment, which loosely implies that they would follow a lawful deity. In my opinion the lawful requirement is subject to the DMs discretion, especially if they feel that there is a more appropriate deity for the monk to follow. Also, the monk doesn't necessarily have to be the same alignment as their deity, it just makes more sense if they are.

[Kudaku]

Being lawful doesn't necessarily mean following a lawful deity. I have no problem with a monk following Desna. That said, it should be noted that Desna is Chaotic Good, not Neutral Good.

[jjcrpntr]

Being lawful doesn't necessarily mean following a lawful deity. I have no problem with a monk following Desna. That said, it should be noted that Desna is Chaotic Good, not Neutral Good.

Good point i was looking at the cleric of alignments on the pathfinder wiki.

but ya thats basically what i thought.

[DarkOne-Rob]

There is absolutely nothing that states a monk has to follow any deity at all, let alone a lawful one.

Any argument that extends from this point is one based entirely on subjective opinion. That includes any statement by anyone anywhere...

That said, in order of strictness from least to most according to the PathFinder setting (Golarion), most classes are not required to worship anything at all. Oracles might worship deities related to their mysteries. Paladins must have a strict code of conduct that adheres to good and lawful ideals, suggesting that most would worship good and/or lawful deities. Clerics must worship a deity in most campaign settings, though the rules allow worship of ideals.

Several classes require certain alignments, but nothing about that requirement makes any mention of worship...

[mashlagoo1982]

Just going to leave this link here...

http://agc.deskslave.org/comic_viewer.html?goNumber=532

[MightyPirate]

"Alignment is a tool for developing your character's identity—it is not a straitjacket for restricting your character."

That's important. Monks aren't any more restricted than any other class, you are correct in that argument. Only Clerics and Inquisitors (Or Paladins and Anti-Paladins with variant channeling) are restricted in that way to my knowledge.

He's got an interesting point about a lawful character being unlikely to worship a chaotic deity but that is really a choice up to the player as the rules don't say anything on the matter. I would bring up the contradiction to the player and let him decide how his character reconciles this if he does at all. It's a good opportunity to have him roleplay with the group and sort of feel out why his character believes what he does. If he's shy, as many new players are, it may be good to do this one on one with another character.

Basically as a DM it's your duty to resolve any issues that may kill the fun of your campaign for your players. Don't tell your players to enjoy the game in a specific way, especially if it's not in the rules, and don't let other players do the same. You're not alone in making sure that everyone is enjoying the game, that's everyone's job. You just have to facilitate sometimes and let people know if you think they could help in some way.

In this particular case I would let your new player decide if the chaos and lawful contradictions are a problem for him. If he doesn't have a problem and your tutor player still disagrees then you should have him question the new player from time to time in character. Don't let it get in the way of the story but it sounds like a good opportunity to develop a kind of McCoy/Spock relationship. The character so uncomfortable with contradictions of faith that he makes occasional quips and the serene monk who's so at peace with with the chaos of he deity that he just gently rebuts.

So long as you let your players know, out of character, what your concerns are and give a gentle suggestion how to deal with things in character it should be fine.

[Urpriest]

You occasionally do get orders of Lawful characters following Chaotic gods if their ethos lines up well enough. For example, Sune, the Forgotten Realms goddess of beauty, is Chaotic Good, but she is served by Paladins (not Paladins of Freedom, but normal, LG Paladins) who swear to protect beauty.

[Prime32]

You occasionally do get orders of Lawful characters following Chaotic gods if their ethos lines up well enough. For example, Sune, the Forgotten Realms goddess of beauty, is Chaotic Good, but she is served by Paladins (not Paladins of Freedom, but normal, LG Paladins) who swear to protect beauty.Following a religion out of tradition rather than because it matches your personal beliefs is also a pretty lawful thing to do. :smalltongue: