Build Challenge II: Better Stronger Faster (or Crunch my Fluff)

[dextercorvia]

I'm seeing a lot of Stormwind lately, I think it is time for a blast from the past.

Full Credit to ShneekeyTheLost for his original work. Build Challenge: We can build it we have the sourcebooks! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?203959-Build-Challenge-We-can-build-it-we-have-the-sourcebooks!)

If you give me a concept, I will (in the spirit of the original thread) give you a mechanically solid build that achieves your goals.


People keep trying to say that 'this class doesn't have the flavor that I am looking for', which I find to be patently... ridiculous.

So I will do this: Give me your character concept, and I will build that character so that, mechanically, it is a solid build. The more specific about how you want your character to go about doing this, the easier I can tailor the build to suit your needs.

Here's the rules:

1) No contradicting requirements (i.e. 'the world's best warrior who can best anything in physical combat... and absolutely refuses to use magic', when most things over CR 6 require magic of some form to kill)

2) Bonus abilities are optional. I don't want to hear: But I didn't want x, y, and z as well. Quite bluntly, if you don't want them, don't use them. Nothing says you have to use everything your mechanics says you can do. Pretend those parts of the character sheet just don't exist. However, I personally guarantee that it will do everything you want it to do.

3) I've got a life outside of gaming. Don't expect me to post results immediately. It may take me a bit to get back to my computer. Don't get upset if I don't respond to your post promptly. It may well take me over a week to get back to you.

4) If you don't get specific with your description, I can't get specific with my build. I don't want to hear 'I want x', then I give you a build that does x very well, only to have you say 'but I also wanted y and z, and I didn't want to do x like you just did'. Please state, explicitly, what it is you want your character to do.

5) No scarcastic build requests. I'm being serious and honest about wanting to prove my point. Please at least respect this by being serious with your requests.

6) Mechanics are just that... mechanics. They have no inherent flavor in and of themselves. Being able to break through a wall because you are doing OVER 9000 DAMAGE! with an Ubercharger is the same as being able to do it with Mountain Hammer Strike. You're hitting a wall, and it is falling over. Mechanics are merely a way to express how your character interacts with the game world. If you are not willing to be open-minded on this point, then there is no point in posting a build request. The point of this thread is to demonstrate my position to those who are willing to listen, not to get into ideological debates with individuals who refuse to budge from their position in the slightest.

7) This is not 'pimp my toon'. This is a proof-of-concept.
I do not use Dragon Mag content, nor do I use 3rd party content. I will use any other resource at my disposal. This is not supposed to be 'build me a character to play in my next game, and my GM says that nothing you suggest will be allowed'. This is an expression of how game mechanics can fill any niche.

8) NO ANIME OR POP CULTURE BUILD REQUESTS. No I will not build Ranma/Bleach/Ruruni/Vader/etc... this is to make actual characters, not to rip off other people's


So why am I doing this? I'm trying to prove my point. I'm wanting to prove to everyone that classes exist merely as a way to express a character concept, and that a class combination does not, in any way, impact your ability to RP your character however you'd like to.

I'm trying to prove here that any character concept CAN be appropriately represented by a mechanics build, AND be a viable and playable build who has something to contribute, although the mechanics necessary to do what you want to do may be a bit convoluted, depending on your request.

I suppose I'm trying to prove the Stormwind Fallacy is just that... false. That you CAN have BOTH RP *AND* Powergaming in one build. THEY ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

[Aspargo]

Lets try it then:

I wanna a rogue like character, with a focus in crossbows. Not hand crossbows, but two-handed (if you have played, something like the bowgun from monter hunter game series). I see this characters as a swat member, who uses shock-and-awe tactics, excels in mobility, and prefer precision and inteligence to acomplish his missions. (another good reference would be the Dread Comando class, from the Heroes of battle book, pg 103). He would prefer to use magic itens instead of using magic himself, custom-magic itens would be part of his arsenal. (he can have casting classes, but i really would prefer a mundane who uses magic build, instead of a wizard who plays as a warrior. Go nuts with UMD or something ^^)

The crossbow his gonna be the hard part =p good luck on that o/

(any doubts, you can PM me; also, i would be gratefull if i got a PM when the build get ready)

Sorry for any english mistakes, iam brazilian ;p Waiting for my build!

[EisenKreutzer]

I have this idea of a primitive shaman character who is the spiritual champion of his stone age tribe. He is not a spellcaster, but a formidable warrior aided by the spirits of his ancestors and powerful animal totems.
He is a wise medicine man, but when his tribe is theatened and evil rises, he dons his antlered deer-skull helmet and hefts his mighty club and wades into battle.

I don't want him to cast overt spells (no fireballs or lightning bolts), but buffs are fine. Shapeshifting is thematically appropriate, but I want him in human form most of the time He's a very supernatural character though, but in a martial way.

[Seppo87]

Cool idea!

I have this fluff, could you crunch it for me?

One character that blends some of the following concepts:

bard, marshall, crusader, blackguard

More in detail, a heavily armored frontline battle leader with high charisma, able to both lead/empower his allies and weaken his foes by his sheer presence/aura/spells/intimidate/whatever.
Evil, likes to backstab and would be cool of he was able to help his allies to backstab (or at least hide and move silently) as well.
Preferably of an aesthetically pleasing race for average human standards (humans, elfs, lesser aasimar...) or at least not disgusting/gross (undead, goblinoid...?)

To sum up:

-can engage in prolonged melee and deal reasonable damage
-able to effectively wear heavy armors
-able to proficiently lead/buff allies for battle and sneaking purposes
-able to proficiently debuff opponents manly reducing their defenses or scaring them
-can somewhat hide/move silently/backstab/sneak attack (motivate dexterity?)
-Out of Combat has high NPC interaction proficiency (can be a diplomat or just intimidate everyone into obedience, whatever works best)
-may or may not cast spells, whatever works best
-sexy

[dextercorvia]

I have this idea of a primitive shaman character who is the spiritual champion of his stone age tribe. He is not a spellcaster, but a formidable warrior aided by the spirits of his ancestors and powerful animal totems.
He is a wise medicine man, but when his tribe is theatened and evil rises, he dons his antlered deer-skull helmet and hefts his mighty club and wades into battle.

I don't want him to cast overt spells (no fireballs or lightning bolts), but buffs are fine. Shapeshifting is thematically appropriate, but I want him in human form most of the time He's a very supernatural character though, but in a martial way.

Ardent1/Totemist2/Ardent+2/SoulManifester10 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a)/Ardent+5

Use the Substitute Powers option (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) on the Physical Power mantle as follows

2. Animal Affinity Psionic Lion's Charge (More totem goodness)
3. Graft Weapon Incarnum Fusion
4. Psionic Open Chakra (Blank level so you can add it)

I like the Freedom Mantle for your other first level Ardent Mantle, but it is actually a free choice. Use substitute powers to swap out any overtly magic power that you don't want for a more subtle buff type.

I would fluff the Incarnum stuff (mostly) as Totem Spirits, and the Psionics as Ancestral Guidance.

For feats, take Azure Talent(prereq), Practiced Manifestor (synergizes well with Ardent), and Multiattack.

[dextercorvia]

Lets try it then:

I wanna a rogue like character, with a focus in crossbows. Not hand crossbows, but two-handed (if you have played, something like the bowgun from monter hunter game series). I see this characters as a swat member, who uses shock-and-awe tactics, excels in mobility, and prefer precision and inteligence to acomplish his missions. (another good reference would be the Dread Comando class, from the Heroes of battle book, pg 103). He would prefer to use magic itens instead of using magic himself, custom-magic itens would be part of his arsenal. (he can have casting classes, but i really would prefer a mundane who uses magic build, instead of a wizard who plays as a warrior. Go nuts with UMD or something ^^)

The crossbow his gonna be the hard part =p good luck on that o/

(any doubts, you can PM me; also, i would be gratefull if i got a PM when the build get ready)

Sorry for any english mistakes, iam brazilian ;p Waiting for my build!

So, you want Special Ops, and as little casting as possible. Precision and Intelligence just scream Factotum to me. Crossbows are usually subpar to regular bows, but I think we can make this work.

Like so many characters before him, Ops went through a period of secluded self discovery before the beginning of his career. Disappointed with (occidental) monastic life, but not his faith, he set out to travel the world, seeing its wonders, relying only on himself. Being a bright guy, he picked up a variety of tricks from all of those he encountered, and his quick reflexes got him out of more than one tight spot.

Factotum1/CloisteredCleric1/Factotum+3/Mindbender1/DivineOracle2/Factotum+4/PiousTemplar1/Factotum+7

For Feats, you really want Crossbow Sniper (Which requires Weapon Focus), Skill Focus:Knowlege(Religion) (prereq, get it from Frog God's Fane), True Believer (Another Prereq), Mindsight, Precise Shot (Which requires Point Blank Shot). You can skip the rest of the archery feats unless you want Rapid Shot (which will work for you), and Mindsight. Other than that, you probably want some Font of Inspiration.

F:Weapon Focus
F:Point Blank Shot
H:Precise Shot
1:FoI
B:Knowledge Devotion
B:Travel Devotion
3:Crossbow Sniper
FGF: Skill Focus:Knowledge(Religion)
6:Mindsight
9: FoI
12: True Believer
15, 18: FoI

Your Cleric Domains are Travel, Pride, and Knowledge. See if you can work out a god with those domains and Heavy Crossbow as the favored weapon. (Heck, with Pride see if you can worship yourself as an ideal -- and your favored weapon is a crossbow.) Trade the 1st and 3rd of those for the devotion feats. The Pride special ability lets you re-roll natural ones on saves.

Factotum means plenty of out of combat utility, so you won't be useless if your one trick isn't appropriate.

That one level of Cleric qualifies you for Divine Oracle. At level 2, you get Prescient Sense, which is Evasion by any other name. It also works in heavier armor if you ever choose to go that route. You can also swap the Oracle Domain for Luck devotion, but your swift actions are going to be precious resources. Mindbender gets you Telepathy, so you can take Mindsight, which is quite useful for identifying targets. Pious Templar gets you Mettle. So, between Cunning Insight, Pride, Mettle, and Evasion, you will do well in the saving throw department. This does not make you some sort of magekiller, it just gives you a bit more survivability.

Gear:
You want a +1 Heavy Self-Loading Crossbow, with Quick Loading (and probably Force enhancement to ignore DR), a Gnome Crossbow Sight, and a wand chamber.

Self Loading is in the A&EG, Quick Loading is in the MIC. Together they let you get full iteratives on your Crossbow. Quick Loading lets you load 100 bolts into an extradimensional space, and it loads the one you want as a free action, so you can pull out silver, cold iron, etc before you get the Force enhancement.

For your standard (if expensive) Ammo, I recommend +1 Bolts with Collision(MIC) and Shadowstrike(A&EG).

Collision is +5 damage, which is great since any attack bonus would overlap with your crossbow. Shadowstrike weapons deny dex bonus and therefore deal sneak attack in any conditions where they cast a shadow. Make sure to bring your own light source. (Don't confuse Shadowstrike with Shadow Striking, a weapon enhancement from ToM -- not the same name, so no update.)

You will want Greater Magic Weapon cast on your Crossbow each day at the highest level possible. You can do it yourself as a Factotum, but your CL will not go above 15 without more help.

Wands:
Nerveskitter is always good, and cheap.
Xstrike (golem, grave, plant, etc) are nice
Hunter's Eye, as made by an Archivist with CL 18 (You can get really cheesy at high levels and get a Staff with CL 18 and Persisted Hunter's Eye -- costs 4 times as much but saves you in the long run, and the action economy)
Sniper's Shot

Between Cunning Strike, Hunter's Eye, and your other various bonuses, you can deal:

1d10+5(Gr Magic Weapon)(Half Dex)+(Int)+5(Know Dev)+5(Collision)+6d6(Hunter's Eye) + whatever you dump into Cunning Strike. It won't be charger damage, but you get to stand pretty far back to make it happen.

[dextercorvia]

Cool idea!

I have this fluff, could you crunch it for me?

One character that blends some of the following concepts:

bard, marshall, crusader, blackguard

More in detail, a heavily armored frontline battle leader with high charisma, able to both lead/empower his allies and weaken his foes by his sheer presence/aura/spells/intimidate/whatever.
Evil, likes to backstab and would be cool of he was able to help his allies to backstab (or at least hide and move silently) as well.
Preferably of an aesthetically pleasing race for average human standards (humans, elfs, lesser aasimar...) or at least not disgusting/gross (undead, goblinoid...?)

To sum up:

-can engage in prolonged melee and deal reasonable damage
-able to effectively wear heavy armors
-able to proficiently lead/buff allies for battle and sneaking purposes
-able to proficiently debuff opponents manly reducing their defenses or scaring them
-can somewhat hide/move silently/backstab/sneak attack (motivate dexterity?)
-Out of Combat has high NPC interaction proficiency (can be a diplomat or just intimidate everyone into obedience, whatever works best)
-may or may not cast spells, whatever works best
-sexy

So, you want to be a Dreadful Commander?

Bard4/Crusader16 -- Take the 4th level of bard before any Crusader levels so you can choose from 1st or 2nd level Maneuvers for your first 5 known.

For Feats you want Dragonfire Inspiration, Song of the Heart, and Song of the White Raven. Inspirational Boost should be one of your 1st level Bard Spells. You can change your energy type to sonic for two feats. Extra Readied Maneuver and Combat Reflexes (and a reach weapon) are solid choices for the Crusader side. (Think Thicket of Blades and Defensive Rebuke.) AoOs are going to be your backstab effect as you already have plenty of bonus damage, you just need an excuse to hit them more. Use Armor Spikes and a Reach weapon to threaten a big area. You can use Bard spell slots to enlarge yourself if necessary. White Raven Tactics is a must, and if he is leading a team, there are several other goodies in White Raven.

If that isn't quite scary enough, you can max out Intimidate (class skill at all levels), take Imperious Command (DotU), add the Fearsome Protperty (DotU) to your Armor, and take the Never Outnumbered skill trick. Most of your strikes are standard actions, boosts are swift, so if you are standing still anyway, use your Move actions to demoralize your foes.

There is also the Dreadful Wrath feat (PGtF) which gives you Frightful Presence most of the time.

[Seppo87]

That's pretty cool.
I think I would still add Marshal 1 and UA fighter variant 1 for the Motivate Dexterity (I can't sneak or blitzkrieg without it - it applies to initiative as well) and 1 die Sneak Attack to enhance with Craven.
Other than that it's a very clean and effective build. Thank you.

[Bluydee]

I've had this idea for a while, and just didn't have the resources to figure out.

Basically, he's a fallen paladin who, to atone for his sins, became a antihero-esque blackguard who assassinates people without subtlety using a greatsword. He does this by using fear, his presence scaring everyone. I want him to be able to sneak attack, as so his shtick would be to corner his target, his fear effects making them panicked and cowering so he can use his SA and slay them.

Bonus points if you make him charge when he does it as you can charge with a sneak attack.

[dextercorvia]

That's pretty cool.
I think I would still add Marshal 1 and UA fighter variant 1 for the Motivate Dexterity (I can't sneak or blitzkrieg without it - it applies to initiative as well) and 1 die Sneak Attack to enhance with Craven.
Other than that it's a very clean and effective build. Thank you.

Glad you liked it.


I've had this idea for a while, and just didn't have the resources to figure out.

Basically, he's a fallen paladin who, to atone for his sins, became a antihero-esque blackguard who assassinates people without subtlety using a greatsword. He does this by using fear, his presence scaring everyone. I want him to be able to sneak attack, as so his shtick would be to corner his target, his fear effects making them panicked and cowering so he can use his SA and slay them.

Bonus points if you make him charge when he does it as you can charge with a sneak attack.

I have some ideas for this, and will get back to you soon. This weekend is pretty crazy for me, so it might be Monday or Tuesday.

[dextercorvia]

I've had this idea for a while, and just didn't have the resources to figure out.

Basically, he's a fallen paladin who, to atone for his sins, became a antihero-esque blackguard who assassinates people without subtlety using a greatsword. He does this by using fear, his presence scaring everyone. I want him to be able to sneak attack, as so his shtick would be to corner his target, his fear effects making them panicked and cowering so he can use his SA and slay them.

Bonus points if you make him charge when he does it as you can charge with a sneak attack.

Start as a Desert Half-Orc (with Unseelie Fey and Magic-Blooded being tasty templates for this) Rogue 1 (skills) with craven. (If flaws are available go for Menacing Demeanor and Skill Focus Intimidate.) We are taking craven because Bullying begins at home, and also for the damage boost.

Follow that up with with Half-Orc Paragon 2 and a level of (Spirit Lion) Barbarian for more Rage and Pounce (At level 3 pick up Intimidating Rage).

Then Pick up Crusader 1 and Fighter 1, grabbing Iron Guard's Glare and Battle Leader's Charge. (You can use the fighter 1 bonus feat for something like Power Attack.)

From there you can go Scarlet Corsair 5 for a bit more sneak attack, and the ability to demoralize everyone in 30' with the same action.

Avenging Executioner 5 will get you Demoralize as a Move action, some Sudden Strike, the ability to deal Sudden Strike on a cowering foe, and a free fear effect when you drop an opponent.

Follow that up with 4 more Crusader levels for a few more Debuffs.

A play note. Intimidating Rage is a free action -- you can start raging at the beginning of your turn, but hold off on the demoralization until your charge brings you into range. You will probably want Extra Rage at least once to cover 4 encounters a day.