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White Blade
2007-02-07, 06:04 PM
Hey, I was wondering if I could get a critique on my elves
Elves
Elves are a race of builders, mechanics, and gadgeteers. They are hard nosed, far-sighted creatures that are obsessive with whatever work they may begin upon. Elves also have a deep seated racial hatred for Magic, though elves are famed for their marvellous cities and technology.
Personality
Elves often come off as aloof and cold to other races, and this may not be an inaccurate impression. Most Elves show no desire to associate with outsiders who do not have information partaining to technology. Their elven curiosity is often the only thing that drives them out into the world. Elves are naturally suspicious of magic and magical creatures, and they look down on such "ludditism".

Elves are driven in their topics of interest, and they often collect knowledge, but they are not greedy, few elves are interested in owning more information then others, but most are interested in owning as much as possible.

Physical Description
As Per PHB
Relations
Distrusting and aloof, the elves have few friends, though they are generally on good terms with humans, halflings, and goblinoids, whom share their interest in machinery, if to a lesser extent. They distrust Orcs, Dwarves, Gnomes, and other magically inclined races, whom they regard as reckless, and for the most part, lazy.
Alignment
Generally progressive in terms of society, the elves prioritize helping the community and the people, they also favor empirical methods of action, and so favor Law over Chaos, and Good over Evil.
Elven lands
Located on the cliffs and sides of Mountains, the Elven homelands are sheathed in mystery and legend, rarely seen by outsiders. Generally far from the other civilizations, the Elven lands are mysterious, and well fortified. Other races are rarely allowed into the mountains. Few of them talk to them.
Elves encountered are generally either exiled magic users or mechanics looking for new ideas to take back to the homeland, because of this, they rarely stay anywhere outside the homeland for long.
Religion
The Gods of the Elves died long ago in a terrible incident which the elves refuse to explain, and the elves do not worship the foreign gods or powers brought to them by the other races, viewing it in the same way they view magic, a stoppper to progress, and a wall to success.
Language
The Elven tongue is a beautiful and fluent tongue, with many detailed descriptors and measurement systems, and it is a utilitarian script. Learned by mechanics, knowledge seekers, and bards everywhere, there is scarely a more beautiful or useful tongue, and Common being the primary tongue is due purely to the fact that it is not at all easy to learn, and requires much fluency to be used properly.

The Elven script is no less detailed or beautiful and is used by the fey, orcs, and gnomes in spite of the long racial hatred between elves and those races.
Names
Elves generally name their children after machines, ores, fuels, foods, plants, animals, or ancient elven names which have long since lost all meaning to the vast majority of creation. The Elves often adapt an alias when dealing with outsiders, modelled after that race's naming patterns, allowing them to converse with more ease without hearing inept tongues stumble over the elven spelling. Elves do not have family names.
Male Names
Urgikun (Gears), Junima (Blackpowder), Huhima (Masculine Coal), Itchalmic (Long lost elven name), Yurnma (Oil), Amachenur (Oak)
Female names
Huhime (Feminine Coal), Hachtut (Lantern), Hiranam (Glass), Itanram (Rosepetal), Yahrutchanal (Long lost Elven name)
Adventurers
Elven Adventurers are generally the most curious or reckless of the elves, and some are exiles thrown out of the Elven Communities for practicing magic, which infuriates elves to no end. For this reason, elves met outside their homelands are generally brave, proud, or curious, often all of them.
Elven Racial Traits
* +2 Intelligence, +2 Dexterity, -2 Strength, -2 Constitution: Elves are graceful and intelligent, but they are also frail and weak.
* Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
* Elf base land speed is 30 feet.
* Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
* Weapon Familiarity: Elves may treat Firearms as Martial Weapons rather then Exotic Weapons.
* +2 to Craft (Chemical, Trap-Making, and Machinery) and Disable Device. Elves are naturally skilled with machinery, chemistry, and similar objects.
* +2 to Search Checks for Mechanical Traps or Hidden Doors. Elves are adept at spotting mechanical alterations to surfaces.
* Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan.
Favored Class: Rogue. A multiclass elf’s rogue class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.

Mr Pants
2007-02-07, 06:22 PM
seems balanced to me as compared to the phb elf. The stat bonuses and abilities fit the description you have given them. They seem to remind me of a taller gnome.

Twisted.Fate
2007-02-08, 12:27 PM
Agree with Mr. Pants that they feel like taller gnomes. Not really sure why you're doing this, fluff-wise - do you just feel like being contrarian in terms of what normal elves are like? The entire set-up is essentially the PHB elf flipped on its head. (Hate magic/Like tech. Nature boring/Make machines. Lawful/Not Chaotic. Like goblins/Hate gnomes.)

I mean, I guess I'd have to see your entire campaign setting to really make a judgement, in terms of fluff. But it just feels so crassly contrarian. Like you're doing the last possible elf variant just because it hasn't been done; because it's such a departure from normal elves.

Honestly, if you want such a race, why call 'em elves in the first place? Just change the name. It makes so much more sense that way. The race itself looks cool, but in terms of fluff, they're so far from elves that it's better just to rename them.

Draz74
2007-02-08, 04:44 PM
Well, assuming Gnomes or similar don't exist in this world, and the "Tinker" role is available, I could see why this would be fine.

Twisted.Fate
2007-02-09, 12:38 PM
You missed the point of my post, I think. It's not that these elves are replacing gnomes - it's that these elves are the distinct opposite of normal elves in almost every way, so much so that there's no reason to call them elves at all. I'm not saying the build or the idea is bad (in fact, I rather like the idea of a race that thinks magic-users are Luddites [such an excellent word, Luddite]), but that the name should be changed.

If I designed a class about bringing dead people back to life via magical resurrection, I wouldn't call it a necromancer. This would be inaccurate - while technically they would be "magic users that deal with dead people," the word "necromancer" leads to a certain expectation of work with the undead. In the same vein, calling this race "elves" leads to a certain expectation of "elf-ness" - magic use, chaotic tendencies, value of independence, nature love, and so on. These creatures, while they may be shaped bodily like elves, are functionally not elves.

How hard is it to come up with a new name and a slightly different physical appearance? That would make these way more original and interesting, in my opinion.

Elliot Kane
2007-02-09, 01:01 PM
I like 'em. It's a different approach to Elves in general, and that's not a bad thing. Adds a bit of uniqueness to your campaign which will help make it memorable.

I think they sound more LN than LG though in terms of racial alignment.

Leush
2007-02-09, 01:18 PM
I do not agree with Twisted.Fate: Although it fits with neither seely court elves (Tolkein elves) or unseely court elves (fey) it fits very well with the "Santa workshop" elves. Also, I think that rogue is a good choice of class for tinkerers.

On a different note, the mechanics are too similar too grey elves I think, intead of giving them an intelligence boost, it would be best to give them bonus skillpoints and perhaps, I don't know, I just don't think it's good to have an intelligence boost for a race that's intrinsic to a campaign, since it will favour minmaxing over flavour. Perhaps they get a +2 to all knowledge checks instead along with bonus skillpoints?

Twisted.Fate
2007-02-09, 01:47 PM
I do not agree with Twisted.Fate: Although it fits with neither seely court elves (Tolkein elves) or unseely court elves (fey) it fits very well with the "Santa workshop" elves.

In which case, they ought to be small-sized and jolly. Oh, and magical, in that Santa Claus is an inherently magical concept.

White Blade
2007-02-09, 03:11 PM
Agree with Mr. Pants that they feel like taller gnomes. Not really sure why you're doing this, fluff-wise - do you just feel like being contrarian in terms of what normal elves are like? The entire set-up is essentially the PHB elf flipped on its head. (Hate magic/Like tech. Nature boring/Make machines. Lawful/Not Chaotic. Like goblins/Hate gnomes.)

I mean, I guess I'd have to see your entire campaign setting to really make a judgement, in terms of fluff. But it just feels so crassly contrarian. Like you're doing the last possible elf variant just because it hasn't been done; because it's such a departure from normal elves.

Honestly, if you want such a race, why call 'em elves in the first place? Just change the name. It makes so much more sense that way. The race itself looks cool, but in terms of fluff, they're so far from elves that it's better just to rename them.
Because they ARE elves. They even used to be prototypical elves, four or five thousand years ago. They killed their gods via spectacular magical blunder (which also dragged the humans, halflings, goblins, and merfolk there). Which is why they stopped being magicians. Then, the eldest of the elves decided they needed a reason for their descendants to continue the rule. They invented the Luddite excuse, and thus it began.

If they were simply the pro-tech long-lived anti-magic race, that'd be something different. But their elves. Fundamentally. Just because you and I are not like ancient Egyptians or Mesopotamians or similar DOES NOT mean that we are not humans.

For instance, you and I believe very strongly, doubtlessly, in the individual. But that was simply not so in Egypt, where the only individual who was important was the Pharaoh, and only because he was considered a god. Everyone else was cannon fodder, and could be thrown away at a moment's notice (theoretically speaking, naturally).

For that matter, you and I probably have greater reservation about nuclear use then say, those who lived during 1945 right? Going further forward, we have MUCH greater reluctance to use chemical weapons (Agent Orange, how we despise thee) then we did during the Vietnam war. I could keep going, but it gets boring after a while. To be frank: People change. No society, and especially no race, will remain the same forever.

The Elves have long since forgone a true interest in freedom simply because they trusted it so, and it failed them so utterly.

Twisted.Fate
2007-02-09, 04:28 PM
Because they ARE elves. They even used to be prototypical elves, four or five thousand years ago. They killed their gods via spectacular magical blunder (which also dragged the humans, halflings, goblins, and merfolk there). Which is why they stopped being magicians. Then, the eldest of the elves decided they needed a reason for their descendants to continue the rule. They invented the Luddite excuse, and thus it began.

If they were simply the pro-tech long-lived anti-magic race, that'd be something different. But their elves. Fundamentally. Just because you and I are not like ancient Egyptians or Mesopotamians or similar DOES NOT mean that we are not humans.

For instance, you and I believe very strongly, doubtlessly, in the individual. But that was simply not so in Egypt, where the only individual who was important was the Pharaoh, and only because he was considered a god. Everyone else was cannon fodder, and could be thrown away at a moment's notice (theoretically speaking, naturally).

For that matter, you and I probably have greater reservation about nuclear use then say, those who lived during 1945 right? Going further forward, we have MUCH greater reluctance to use chemical weapons (Agent Orange, how we despise thee) then we did during the Vietnam war. I could keep going, but it gets boring after a while. To be frank: People change. No society, and especially no race, will remain the same forever.

The Elves have long since forgone a true interest in freedom simply because they trusted it so, and it failed them so utterly.

So why didn't you just say that in the original post? It's a damn cool backstory, and now that I can see where you're coming from, it makes perfect sense.

Without any history, it looks like an inverted elf subrace that have always been magic-hating technocrats. With the backstory, it comes into focus as a really cool variant with a really interesting history behind it. They were normal PHB elves, until they screwed up big time. I'm suckered in by the idea that they exploded their gods in a giant magical disaster, and have since developed the excuse that magic is for luddites.

I respectfully withdraw my earlier fluff-based criticisms. Good work. (As I mentioned before, the mechanics look balanced to me).

pestilenceawaits
2007-02-09, 04:39 PM
So why didn't you just say that in the original post? It's a damn cool backstory, and now that I can see where you're coming from, it makes perfect sense.

Without any history, it looks like an inverted elf subrace that have always been magic-hating technocrats. With the backstory, it comes into focus as a really cool variant with a really interesting history behind it. They were normal PHB elves, until they screwed up big time. I'm suckered in by the idea that they exploded their gods in a giant magical disaster, and have since developed the excuse that magic is for luddites.

I respectfully withdraw my earlier fluff-based criticisms. Good work. (As I mentioned before, the mechanics look balanced to me).

QFT

I like the back story a lot and the race seems well balanced.

White Blade
2007-02-09, 04:39 PM
Two Reasons:
Its pretty much a long forgotten bit of knowledge, and should any of my players stumble upon this, bad things will happen (they aren't liable to though).
There is no "history" section in the racial set up/

coldshiftdown
2007-02-10, 07:06 PM
the concept is nice, but the stats seem a little underpowered. their net stat bonus is -2, and i dont think the +2 on certain skills can compensate.

Solaris
2007-02-11, 11:23 PM
Adventurers
Elven Adventurers are generally the most curious or reckless of the elves, and some are exiles thrown out of the Elven Communities for practicing magic, which infuriates elves to no end. For this reason, elves met outside their homelands are generally brave, proud, or curious, often all of them.


I love you. In an entirely platonic way, of course. Beating players over the head with the fact that they're not going to be playing generic versions of their races due to the fact that generic versions of their races tend to not become adventurers; I thought I was the only one.

Fanboyism aside, I do like how you've made these elves. Might I suggest calling them a culture of the grey elves rather than a distinct subrace, primarily to avoid the idea that "All elves who differ from the norm must be a new subrace" that seems to have seeped into D&D so strongly? The differences between these elves and grey elves can easily be accounted for with different cultures. They're not really physiological, and if you can raise a goblin to be good then you can make an elven culture to be lawful.
After all, they've (usually) had civilization for thousands of years. You'd think they'd do something in that time.

White Blade
2007-02-12, 12:39 PM
I can think of a few ways a Generic member of a race would go adventuring but they would be along the lines of "The Stormtroopers Killed Luke Skywalker's Uncle and Aunt, and now he has gone off to become a Jedi Knight like his father before him". And we all know how Luke really was, not just an ordinary farm boy after all.

Solaris
2007-02-12, 03:38 PM
Correct. As we all know, that's good once. Maybe. If every character in the party is some naive farmboy out to avenge his Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, the DM should seriously start to consider establishing an alibi for that upcoming TPK.