(Pathfinder) How to Build an Archer?

[Lord Lemming]

Though I have a fairly thorough understanding of the game system, neither I nor any of my compatriots have much experience playing Pathfinder or D&D. The resources available to us are the Pathfinder core rulebook, which I prefer to stick to since we're all new, and d20pfsrd.com, which I assume provides just about any Pathfinder-related materials you can come up with. Building an archer seems fairly straightforward with the core rulebook; the list of feats that help a range-oriented character is limited, and a fighter would be able to take pretty much all of them. My questions are: Which class in the core rulebook does best as an archer? Are there any builds using purely the core rulebook that are superior to simply grabbing a longbow and the archery feats? And how would YOU build an archer if you had the expanded rulesets to work with?

[grarrrg]

My questions are: Which class in the core rulebook does best as an archer? Are there any builds using purely the core rulebook that are superior to simply grabbing a longbow and the archery feats? And how would YOU build an archer if you had the expanded rulesets to work with?

Fighter, Ranger, and Paladin.
Fighter gets tons of feats, and some decent Weapon Training bonuses.
Ranger gets some feats and Favored Enemy, and is better at non-combat stuff than Fighter.
Paladin is really only a great archer when fighting Evil enemies, as Smite Evil can get you a LOT of bonus damage when combined with Rapid Shot and such. Vs. Non-Evil, a Paladin does "ok".

Once you get out of straight core, add Inquisitor and Monk to that list, and give all the existing ones boosts.
Inquisitor gets Judgement bonuses, Bane, and decent spellcasting/skills.
Monk is all about the Zen Archer archetype. They out-Feat the Fighter for quite a few levels, get to use WIS To-Hit, and can kinda-dump DEX (only need 13). Being able to Flurry with a Bow is pretty sweet, and they gain a few nice Ki options. The bonuses tend to get weaker around levels 8-to-12, and you are possibly better off switching classes at that point.

Fighter benefits mainly from archetype options.
Ranger gets decent stuff, notably the Instant Enemy spell, which makes _any_ target your "best Favored Enemy".
Paladins get a couple archetypes for boosts.

[Lord Lemming]

Thanks! I hadn't even considered making a Paladin an archer.

[Hylas]

Ranger gets decent stuff, notably the Instant Enemy spell, which makes _any_ target your "best Favored Enemy".

Yeah, instant enemy is amazing. You can get an archetype that gets rid of every favored enemy except for one and still be 100% effective.

If it's core-only I'd actually recommend fighter over ranger if all you want to do is shoot arrows. You can be an archer in full plate with almost no meaningful penalty at level 7. But if all of d20pfsrd is available then you're not really limited in options. Go fighter if you want to be "pure combat," go ranger if you want a wilderness theme, go inquisitor if you want a divine theme, and go monk if you want a thoughtful theme. If you're going zen archer monk then you should multiclass after 8 levels.

If you're going fighter or zen archer monk then consider grabbing a prestige class eventually. Arcane Archer will give you a damage boost, Horizon Walker will give you a utility boost (moreso if you can convince the DM to allow the 3.5 version), and if you're feeling crazy then look at Stalwart Defender. Archers don't really need to move to attack, you know.

[grarrrg]

Thanks! I hadn't even considered making a Paladin an archer.

*rummages through box of interwebs*
Ah, here's this old post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=12902283&postcount=9) of comparisons for all the classes I listed above.

[ericgrau]

Last time I saw a PF comparison I believe the guide ranger (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/guide) won. 2nd was the zen archer, and he's better than the ranger if you're fighting for multiple long fights. An invis monkey ninja is better 1v1 since he's hard to hit, but since most archers rarely get hit anyway he tends to be much worse than the others in a party.

[Spore]

You CAN do a pretty good ranged fighter with advanced firearms if you wish to do so. Wielding a single pistol utilizing Gunslinger, Rapid Reload and the fact that you have a ranged TOUCH attack in the first range increment is pretty dope. But the gunslinger comes with an entire class fuelled by not a physical book, so only do this if you have internet to go at your tables.

That weird side tangent being out of my system several characters can make competitive archer characters. Rangers are decent at archery with a lot of useful skills, a splatter of good spells and those favored enemies. I like the dilletante casters (ranger + paladin) because they are great for new players. Full BAB (so hitting is not frustating), a few spells to pick from (fewer choices = quicker play) it's just that the paladin really lacks in the skill department aside from diplomacy.

Paladins are the kings of evil smitable ranged combat. If your DM wants easy enemies where you don't have any problems of killing them, demons, undead and other standard evil stuff is straight forward. It's evil, it's undead, so your paladin has her from with them. Possibly does more damage than the ranger in those situations.

Fighter archers I am no friend of. It's true that you can qualify for any sort of silly combat nonsense like ranged disarm attacks but they just lack the spells, lack the skills and they can't do anything beside shoot really really well. What would Robin Hood be without his ranks in Climb, Acrobatics and Perception? Probably incarcerated and executed. What would Jeanne D'Arc be without her ranks in Diplomacy? Probably just an insane nobody burnt for heresy. What in core is your archer fighter then? Some bloke at the olympic archery events who does really really good. But tell me a single name from the Olympics in recent history who won a gold medal. Even with such an world broadcasted success you can't get one name, do you?

Case in point: The Fighter lacks spells, skills and in the case of the ranged archer - even the tank possibility. Although you COULD make a build around a defensive stance not provoking attacks of opportunity in melee range.

I almost forgot the Zen Archer archetype for monks! If you want something different, like a little asian flair in your classical RPG, you take that monk archetype, have good saves, Wisdom to hit (in addition to Dex), get Strength to damage (later on with an enchantment Wis to damage also) and still have a Ki Pool to do stuff like Jump up a building for cover and better position.

[jaydubs]

There are a lot of potential archery builds. Do you have any preferences outside of using a bow? For instance:

-Do you want access to spells? How many? Divine or arcane?
-Do you want to play a skillful character? Scouting, traps, social, etc.
-Do you have a background type that appeals more to you? For instance, nature, urban, divine, etc.

And are you looking for archery to be the primary role? Or rather just a significant aspect? There are several classes that aren't quite as good at archery, in exchange for bringing in other abilities.

Also, what level are you starting at? And how long will the game likely go?

[Lord Lemming]

There are a lot of potential archery builds. Do you have any preferences outside of using a bow? For instance:

-Do you want access to spells? How many? Divine or arcane?
-Do you want to play a skillful character? Scouting, traps, social, etc.
-Do you have a background type that appeals more to you? For instance, nature, urban, divine, etc.

And are you looking for archery to be the primary role? Or rather just a significant aspect? There are several classes that aren't quite as good at archery, in exchange for bringing in other abilities.

Also, what level are you starting at? And how long will the game likely go?

-Spells might be nice to have, but I'm mostly about the shooting.

-No one class has quite all the skills that I want; climb, swim, diplomacy, stealth, survival, perception, and maybe ride. Having these skills would be nice, but I'm not married to them. I had this idea for starting two levels in fighter, multiclass two levels in rogue for the skills, the evasion, the rogue talent and a little bit of sneak attack, and then go back to fighter.

-No particular background, once I make a character sheet I can usually craft the character background around it.

And yes, archery is the big thing, anything else is secondary.

We're probably starting at low, low levels, with the level cap being somewhere around 9th level.

[jaydubs]

If you want to add some class skills, take a look at traits (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits). There's also a guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dVQA-uI740Hh8vq-zsnbHV6UwJg-4QKlpmkxBEmCdhA/edit?pli=1) that includes how to pick up specific class skills, though I don't think it is completely up to date.

I wouldn't multiclass a fighter into rogue for archery. You won't be getting the sneak attack bonus most of the time since you'll be at range, and there are other ways of getting skills as mentioned. I'd recommend a ranger instead, since it already has most of what you're looking for. Add diplomacy via a trait for the skills you listed, only 2 less skill points than the rogue, and you get a few spells starting at level 4. And while it's a long wait, they already get evasion at level 9.

[Roadie]

The most straightforward way, IMO, would be Monk with the Zen Archer archetype, then multiclassing out after 6th or 9th level.

In the first nine levels it gets:
- Rapid Shot but better (flurry of blows)
- Point Blank Master
- Weapon Focus
- Weapon Specialization
- 3 other bonus archery feats
- attacks of opportunity using a bow
- Wisdom to Dex and attack (get a bow with the Guided Weapon property for Wisdom to damage)
- reroll and extended range ki powers