Can a mirror polished shield, reflect a ray spell?

[CyberThread]

Just over all , lets talk facts. What is a "ray"?


An once you figure out what a ray of magic is, can it be bounced around with a mirror surface?

[Jack_Simth]

Just over all , lets talk facts. What is a "ray"?
A Ray is defined (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#effect):
Ray

Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature you’re aiming at.

If a ray spell has a duration, it’s the duration of the effect that the ray causes, not the length of time the ray itself persists.

If a ray spell deals damage, you can score a critical hit just as if it were a weapon. A ray spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit.

An once you figure out what a ray of magic is, can it be bounced around with a mirror surface?By default no. DM's will make 'rule of cool' exceptions when they seem to make sense (e.g., Searing Light (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/searingLight.htm)), but in general a ray hits an object and then stops (in the case of a shield, as most rays are touch attacks, they then proceed to affect the shield bearer).

[Necroticplague]

A coherent form of spell deliver that is solid enough to be able to deliver itself, instead of you having to use your own hand.

Not unless its some kind of magical shield specifically enchanted to do so (which is probably an epic enchantment, given how deflecting rays is an epic feat)

[Jack_Simth]

A coherent form of spell deliver that is solid enough to be able to deliver itself, instead of you having to use your own hand.

Not unless its some kind of magical shield specifically enchanted to do so (which is probably an epic enchantment, given how deflecting rays is an epic feat)
As it's a minute/level, 4th level Sor/Wiz/Bard spell, it might not be. After all, there are a lot of things in Epic that are overpriced....

[Seerow]

A coherent form of spell deliver that is solid enough to be able to deliver itself, instead of you having to use your own hand.

Not unless its some kind of magical shield specifically enchanted to do so (which is probably an epic enchantment, given how deflecting rays is an epic feat)

Getting +1 to a stat is also an epic feat. That's worth ~30k gold.

Also, you can trade out Evasion to be able to reflect Rays as an ACF, that's available to Rogues at 2nd level. In fact, I'd just straight up price it as the same as a Ring of Evasion (25,000gp), possibly with a reduced price to tie it to a shield rather than a ring (or give the extra property of making the Shield apply to touch AC).

[Sir Chuckles]

A coherent form of spell deliver that is solid enough to be able to deliver itself, instead of you having to use your own hand.

Not unless its some kind of magical shield specifically enchanted to do so (which is probably an epic enchantment, given how deflecting rays is an epic feat)

Off-Topic: I've always disliked that argument, when a +2 ability equipment is dirt cheap, and a +1 ability feat is an epic feat.

It depends on what the intent of the reflection is. There's a spell that makes all rays bounce away from you, and it's a 4th level spell. Spell Turning, replicated by the once-a-day Reflecting enchantment (+5 bonus), is a 7th level spell.
So it's unlikely that mundane polishing would do that.

[TuggyNE]

Off-Topic: I've always disliked that argument, when a +2 ability equipment is dirt cheap, and a +1 ability feat is an epic feat.

They're not entirely comparable, since one stacks with absolutely everything and cannot be lost or dispelled or sundered, while the other doesn't stack with by far the most common bonus type around and, of course, can be lost, dispelled, and sundered. Still, though.

[Killer Angel]

In pathfinder, there's the feat Ray Shield (you can deflect one ray / round). It's far from epic, but i recall there are 2 or 3 other feats as prerequisites.

[MrNobody]

By default no. DM's will make 'rule of cool' exceptions when they seem to make sense (e.g., Searing Light (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/searingLight.htm)), but in general a ray hits an object and then stops (in the case of a shield, as most rays are touch attacks, they then proceed to affect the shield bearer).

This. In this case "rule of cool" has to be applied, if appropriate. Otherwise, no.
You should want to be really careful in applying real life physics to your spells: if every ray spell works like a ray of light and can benefit from reflection on a mirror, why not using prisms to polarize, disperse, deflect or splitting it?
And more, if you aim a "searing light" spell to a prism, since it is a beam of sun light it should split in seven colours. It becomes a prismatic spray?
And this is only one kind of the type of abuses this could bring.

Rule of cool on DM's will, definitely. If fits, ok. If not, no!

[Chronos]

There's also the complication, if you do allow it, of deciding how the shield was oriented and thus where the ray is deflected to. I guess maybe allow the wielder of the shield a new attack roll with a penalty?

Like others have said, I would allow it only for rays that are specifically described as being light. So Searing Light, yes, Scorching Ray, maybe, and Polar Ray or Enervation, definitely not.

[DigoDragon]

In pathfinder, there's the feat Ray Shield (you can deflect one ray / round). It's far from epic, but i recall there are 2 or 3 other feats as prerequisites.

I remember stealing that for my D&D game. I turned it into a fighter feat (with some appropriate prereqs).

Otherwise the only ray reflecting we ever did was from a homebrewed "Mirror Shield" magic item (borrowed from A Link to the Past game). Allowed the bearer a limited ability to reflect rays back at their caster.

[Pangaea]

Take Wall of Blades maneuver. Shield bash the ray.

[Vedhin]

Get a pair of Ring Gates. Sovreign Glue them to the front of the shield, one with the entry side out, one with the exit side out. Make sure the ray goes in the entry side. It'll pop right out the exit side.

[Deophaun]

In pathfinder, there's the feat Ray Shield (you can deflect one ray / round). It's far from epic, but i recall there are 2 or 3 other feats as prerequisites.
Doesn't actually bounce the ray, as the shield takes the full brunt of it, instead of you. Depending on what you're hit with, that could be worse than nothing.

3.5 has Parrying Shield and Shield Ward, which allow you to apply your Shield bonus to Touch AC. Shield Ward has the added bonus of also allowing you to apply it to defenses against grappling, tripping, bull rushing, and the like, but has a sub-optimal prerequisite.

[Othniel Edden]

Probably would take some type of magical polish like Shealeigh that could be specifically for a spell reflect and might be downgraded to be ray specific. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but if I was your DM and you asked me for something like this I might make it so it adds your shield AC to the touch AC against rays and then have the reflect effect be active anytime it was under your normal touch AC for the duration of the polish to represent you getting your shield in the right position to redirect the incoming ray back at your opponent. Again probably overthinking it.

[Leviting]

while I would normally think a scorching ray would melt through a mirror and a ray of frost would simply chill the metal(and hands), I couldn't help thinking of this when I saw this question
http://www.darklegacycomics.com/266.html. I also always thought of this when watching star wars...

[TrueJordan]

Mirror of Friendly Fire (which is a level 4 spell, at rounds/level)
8000*4*7= 224000, if it's active all the time. Is that right?

Though it also reflects arrows, rocks, and any ranged attack that requires any attack roll. And it reflects it to any target within 30 feet, so this doesn't actually answer the question ignore me.

[Leviting]

What if the target is 31 feet away? Where does the ray go then?

[TrueJordan]

What if the target is 31 feet away? Where does the ray go then?

'Any target within thirty feet.'
Target: 'a person, object, or place selected as the aim of an attack.'

Is a tile on the floor a place? Then it is also a target, and the ray can be directed there.

[CyberThread]

Mirror of Friendly Fire (which is a level 4 spell, at rounds/level)
8000*4*7= 224000, if it's active all the time. Is that right?




General Cost in Gold Pieces
Reducer Reduced to
Crafting it yourself instead of buying it. (DMG) 50%
Item is restricted to being used by those of a specific skill. (DMG) 90%
Item is restricted to being used by those of a specific class or alignment. (DMG) 70%
Apprentice (Craftsman) feat (DMG II) 90%
Extraordinary Artisan feat (ECS) 75%
Binding a Colossal Elemental (Preferably an elemental whale) to it. (ECS+MoE+MotP) 80%
Magical Artisan applied to Elemental Binding (PGF+ECS) 75%
The discount Kaorti get (Adds 13% of the gp value to xp cost, so this should be applied last) 35%
Membership in one of several guilds (see below) 90%
Favored in Guild in an arcane guild (DMG II pg 227-8) 95%
_
Grand total percentage of the gp that must be payed: 3.81768188%


So grand total is, GP 8,552 am not doing the fractions.