How many Ioun Stones can I wear? Answered!

[Hbgplayer]

I'm trying to creat a higher level character, and want a couple of Ioun Stones for some bang for the buck, but I cannot find any listing Anywhere Official any way that tells me how many a character can use at any given time.
I would presume that it would fall into the Head Slot, but I'm thinking that I should be able to use at least two, under the same context as a ring. Thank in advanced.

[MesiDoomstalker]

While there is a limit based on how many start to obscure your vision, there is no mechanical limit. They are all slotless items. Thats kinds their big thing, not taking an item slot.

[Asteron]

I'm fairly certain they are a slotless, which means you can wear as many as you can afford.

[Malimar]

You can use as many ioun stones at once as you desire. (Naturally, identical ioun stones do not stack with one another.)

[Rubik]

Dull gray ioun stones cost very little, and they do very little, other than orbit. However, they can be burned to ash for 1pp worth of psionic power manifestation. They can also be painted in different sparkly colors to distract enemies from your valuable ioun stones, and they can also be targeted with various spells and other effects, such as Continual Flame, Light, and Darkness.

There are lots of fun things they can be used for, and they're slotless (and thus have no number limit), so feel free to loose as many as you like into the air around you. Go nuts.

[Hbgplayer]

You can use as many ioun stones at once as you desire. (Naturally, identical ioun stones do not stack with one another.)

I am now imagining my character's head being a adequate substitute for a model of an atom :tongue:.
Thanks guys!

[Rubik]

I am now imagining my character's head being a adequate substitute for a model of an atom :tongue:.
Thanks guys!Or do what Possessed!Sombra does here (http://www.fimfiction.net/story/122954/hail-to-the-king) and turn your head into a mini solar-system. (Abso-friggin'-lutely hilarious 'fic, btw. Gets even better as it goes along.)

[Hbgplayer]

Or do what Possessed!Sombra does here (http://www.fimfiction.net/story/122954/hail-to-the-king) and turn your head into a mini solar-system. (Abso-friggin'-lutely hilarious 'fic, btw. Gets even better as it goes along.)

But that's too mundane/easy for the opponents if they're in nice, predictable orbits :smallwink:.

[Rubik]

But that's too mundane/easy for the opponents if they're in nice, predictable orbits :smallwink:.Ah, but we have the Heisenpony Uncertainty Principle. Are they planets, or just planetoids? Name one Pluto, and you never know where it'll be.

[VoxRationis]

I am now imagining my character's head being a adequate substitute for a model of an atom :tongue:.
Thanks guys!

How do you model the d and p orbitals? Or the f orbitals, for that matter?

[TuggyNE]

How do you model the d and p orbitals? Or the f orbitals, for that matter?

Very carefully. :smalltongue:

[Erik Vale]

What happens when one's orbit passes through your neck? Does it bounce off? Damage? Blast through and really do damage?

I'm now imagining a player saying 'They orbit like electrons around a atom.', and pre/mid-battle/important event the DM says:
"All your Ioun stons suddenly collide with your face, neck and shoulders, falling off. In your surprise, you accidently step on one. Roll a d20, re rolling 20's because you've only got 19."

Of course, that would be to cruel for a normal game, even against a wizard... However in PF I just get them implanted.
"The theif reaches out and steals your ioun stone of spell reflecting."
"You mean, the one imbedded in my back?"
"Oh, right. Hmm."

[BWR]

What happens when one's orbit passes through your neck? Does it bounce off? Damage? Blast through and really do damage?


It's magic. Their orbits always work i nsuch a way that they don't interfere with your vision, your actions or collide with you or eachother.
Problem solved.

[Chronos]

I'd think the S orbitals would be the most tricky, actually, seeing as they have their maximum right at the origin.

[Deaxsa]

You can use as many ioun stones at once as you desire. (Naturally, identical ioun stones do not stack with one another.)

I was under the impression that they CAN stack as long as the bonus type stacks (such as untyped). So, if you can somehow afford it, you can boost your caster level to ludicrous degrees and make the word out of any old cleric.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Except nothing from the same source stacks unless they say they do. Two of the same kind of Ioun Stone won't stack anymore than two castings of Bull's Strength.

[Necroticplague]

Except nothing from the same source stacks unless they say they do. Two of the same kind of Ioun Stone won't stack anymore than two castings of Bull's Strength.

Bulls' strength doesn't stack because it gives a specified type of bonus, and same type bonuses don't stack. Additionally, two different ioun stones are different sources, so it works as long as the bonus it gives isn't typed.

[Yanisa]

Bulls' strength doesn't stack because it gives a specified type of bonus, and same type bonuses don't stack. Additionally, two different ioun stones are different sources, so it works as long as the bonus it gives isn't typed.

The rules (SRD link) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#Stacking) leave some wiggle room, but I feel they don't allow multiples of the same magic item.


Stacking
In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession).

Way I see it, two the same Ioun Stones count as the same source.




Also I thought there was a limit on magic items, but the only reference I can find is in context to body slots (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#magicItemsOnTheBody).

It’s possible for a creature with a humanoid-shaped body to wear as many as twelve magic items at the same time.
It still is a limit, but not to slotless items (it also excludes weapons and shields).

[Deaxsa]

The rules (SRD link) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#Stacking) leave some wiggle room, but I feel they don't allow multiples of the same magic item.


Way I see it, two the same Ioun Stones count as the same source.

They are discrete items, therefore different items, therefore different sources. If my friend Larry and my friend Writhing Pain both aid another on me, that's +4, not +2, because they are discrete sources, just like how two discrete stones would stack. What you're suggesting is akin to losing 1 wish off of two luckblades(two wishes total), just for possessing two at the same time and trying to use a single wish. (of course, that's exaggeration, but still).

[Yanisa]

Like I said wiggle room, your interpretation is as valid as mine.


They are discrete items, therefore different items, therefore different sources. If my friend Larry and my friend Writhing Pain both aid another on me, that's +4, not +2, because they are discrete sources, just like how two discrete stones would stack.
Interesting that you use Aid Another (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#aidAnother), because that specifically calls out it stacks. So it seems to imply it is an exception to the normal stacking rules. But also this is interpretation, I just found it an odd example. :smalltongue:

A better example is something like Bestow Curse, which gives untyped negative modifiers. If two casters cast Bestow Curse, does it stack? The same source rules states that the same spell cast twice doesn't stack. But doesn't it really not stack when its untyped and cast by two different casters?


What you're suggesting is akin to losing 1 wish off of two luckblades(two wishes total), just for possessing two at the same time and trying to use a single wish. (of course, that's exaggeration, but still).

What about same source not stacking implies multiple wasted charges? And it could happen if the makers of both luck blades added the same command word, like "I wish". :smalltongue:

[Graypairofsocks]

They are discrete items, therefore different items, therefore different sources.

If this interpretation was correct that would mean that the rule about untyped bonuses from the same source, would be (mostly?) useless because an item doesn't grant multiple untyped bonuses to the same thing.



If my friend Larry and my friend Writhing Pain both aid another on me, that's +4, not +2, because they are discrete sources, just like how two discrete stones would stack.still).
Aid another(with the combat option one at least) explicitly states that bonus from multiple people helping you stacks.

[nedz]

The following Ioun stones have untyped bonuses and so should stack
Clear *, Dark blue *, Vibrant purple, Iridescent *, Pale lavender, Pearly white, Orange
The ones marked * would have no effect if stacked however.
The other Ioun stones have typed bonuses which don't stack.


I am now imagining my character's head being a adequate substitute for a model of an atom.

Would that mean that two characters with particular numbers of ioun stones in their outer shells would stick together, as if they were chemically bonded ?

[VoxRationis]

But the question is: How do you determine ioun-negativity?

[Mellack]

What happens when one's orbit passes through your neck?

Quantum tunneling. All the cool ioun stones do that.:smallsmile:

[Naanomi]

Given there is no practical limit to their number, can you 'animate object' the dull-grey ioun stones and make them Aid-Another you?

[TuggyNE]

Given there is no practical limit to their number, can you 'animate object' the dull-grey ioun stones and make them Aid-Another you?

You can certainly animate them, but they would be unable to aid you in e.g. making attacks, since they are not "in position to make an attack" themselves. (Having, as they do, a 0' reach and no way of entering the enemy's space.)

[Devils_Advocate]

I'm pretty sure that there's some sort of "nanobots" theoretical optimization build somewhere that relies on Aid Another from a very large number of miniscule allies.

[TuggyNE]

I'm pretty sure that there's some sort of "nanobots" theoretical optimization build somewhere that relies on Aid Another from a very large number of miniscule allies.

A TO build that relies on ignoring an obscure and inconvenient rule? Say it ain't so!

[Graypairofsocks]

The following Ioun stones have untyped bonuses and so should stack
Clear *, Dark blue *, Vibrant purple, Iridescent *, Pale lavender, Pearly white, Orange
The ones marked * would have no effect if stacked however.
The other Ioun stones have typed bonuses which don't stack.

I just talked about untyped bonuses from the same sources in my post before yours.

I think that 2 of the same Item would count as the same source here(for purpose of untyped bonuses stacking), and I think the 3.5 FAQ agrees with me about this(it said that multiple Orange Ioun Stones don't stack).

[TuggyNE]

I just talked about untyped bonuses from the same sources in my post before yours.

I think that 2 of the same Item would count as the same source here(for purpose of untyped bonuses stacking), and I think the 3.5 FAQ agrees with me about this(it said that multiple Orange Ioun Stones don't stack).

FAQ isn't RAW, but in this case it appears to be running on the correct reading, possibly by mistake.

[nedz]

Looking at the none * ones I listed


Vibrant purple Stores three levels of spells, as a ring of spell storing, minor
Pale lavender Absorbs spells of 4th level or lower
Pearly white Regenerate 1 point of damage per hour
Orange +1 caster level
Lavender and green Absorbs spells of 8th level or lower

On reflection I think you are right about the Orange; but not on the regeneration, spell storing and absorption since these aren't modifiers.

[Rubik]

FAQ isn't RAW, but in this case it appears to be running on the correct reading, possibly by mistake.It's true!

I can only note that this text isn't blue. And it's glorious. And sad.

[Graypairofsocks]

FAQ isn't RAW, but in this case it appears to be running on the correct reading, possibly by mistake.

This may sound dumb, but what is running on the correct reading(The FAQ)?

And why by mistake?



Looking at the none * ones I listed


Vibrant purple Stores three levels of spells, as a ring of spell storing, minor
Pale lavender Absorbs spells of 4th level or lower
Pearly white Regenerate 1 point of damage per hour
Orange +1 caster level
Lavender and green Absorbs spells of 8th level or lower

On reflection I think you are right about the Orange; but not on the regeneration, spell storing and absorption since these aren't modifiers.
I can't remember about other parts of item stacking right now.

I don't really think stacking matters that much with the Spell Absorption Ioun Stone because only one of them is going to be absorbing spells at a time(AFAIK).

[Yanisa]

This may sound dumb, but what is running on the correct reading(The FAQ)?

And why by mistake?


FAQ time


Can a character benefit from multiple nightsticks (Libris Mortis 78) or multiple orange prism ioun stones (DMG 260)?
Neither of these items provides extra bonuses in multiples. The rules for stacking (Rules Compendium 21) do not allow untyped bonuses to stack if they come from the same source. However, this does lead to an interesting question: Could a character use a nightstick and then grab a second nightstick to use? The Sage recommends Dungeon Masters limit the nightstick and similar items to one a day.

Generally speaking the FAQ is wrong, thus being right must be a mistake by the writers.

[Graypairofsocks]

Generally speaking the FAQ is wrong, thus being right must be a mistake by the writers.

Oh, it was a joke.

I forgot that the FAQ is sometimes considered crap.

Why is it considered bad(or examples where it is wrong)?

[Svata]

Oh, it was a joke.

I forgot that the FAQ is sometimes considered usually crap.

Why is it considered bad(or examples where it is wrong)?

Ftfy. Blah.

[Graypairofsocks]

Yeah, but why is it crap?


Because it is from WotC.

[Rubik]

Yeah, but why is it crap?If something is wrong at least as often as it is right, it tends to be seen as crap unreliable, at best.

[Yanisa]

If something is wrong at least as often as it is right, it tends to be seen as crap unreliable, at best.

I have been hanging around these forums for a year or two now, and all this time I heard that he FAQ is the worst written thing ever, the horror of misinterpreting rules, the scourge of trying to explain rules and what else not. But no one ever explained, to me, why! There are barely any old or new threads, the whole thing is mostly silent. When someone mentions FAQ a pack of rabid monkeys appear and shout "FAQ ISNT RAW" until the whole FAQ is dropped and once again forgotten. I generally accept the forums general statements as general truth, but sometimes it hard to understand why people viciously assault the FAQ like its the worse war criminal in the world. Especially if there is even the vague notion of being right in 50% of the cases!

[/hyperbole]

It is interesting that the FAQ used Ioun stone as an example. To me it was always logical that different magic items with provided the same untyped bonus wouldn't stack. At least one person at WoTC agrees with me. :smallsmile:

But still unlimited Ioun stone? No rule about when wearing more then 16 magic items the person wearing those items gets fried by magic energies? I could swear it was a thing, somewhere. Maybe in the head of my DM. :smalltongue:

[Graypairofsocks]

But still unlimited Ioun stone? No rule about when wearing more then 16 magic items the person wearing those items gets fried by magic energies? I could swear it was a thing, somewhere. Maybe in the head of my DM. :smalltongue:

The only limit is when you can't see (or hear) due to the Ioun cloud surrounding your head, but then you buy a Robe of Eyes.


Jokes aside, what are some particularly bad examples from the FAQ?

[Gulnar]

The real question is: how many ioun are needed to create a moving, swirling barrier between the wearer and the external world?

[Kamin_Majere]

Well off a couple of assumptions you can pretty well figure out how many you can technically have

They float between 1 and 3 foot from the user

Assuming a 6ft character with Ioun stones taking up 1 cubic inch each you end up with 439,712
If they take up 1/2 a cubic inch each you end up with roughly 3,517,698 total Ioun stones being possible.
at 1/4 cu/in then you get 28,141,585

and on the other side if they take up 2 cu/in each you only can use 54,964

These numbers would of course change if the stones arent allowed to be outside of the "stuck" orbit of 1ft plane, 2ft plane, 3ft plane
then you get
2 cu/in = 8,709
1 cu/in = 69,676
1/2 cu/in = 557,408
1/4 cu/in = 4,459,264


So yeah you could be technically completely covered head to toe with ioun stons that would make it impossible to interact with the outside world as you would effectively be encased in a rainbow of crystals :smallsmile:
(maths rounded to make calculations easier for my poor brain)

[Necroticplague]

Jokes aside, what are some particularly bad examples from the FAQ?

-Saying Lesser vigor is reduced when used on warforged (false, because the effect is binary, their is no way to 'half' having a trait or not.)
-Contradiction: at one portion it says that subraces can take dragonmarks of their parent race (for duergar and drow), but later says the exact opposite (this time referring to wild elves).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The real question is: how many ioun are needed to create a moving, swirling barrier between the wearer and the external world?
Inside the Ioun Cloud, nobody can hear you scream.

[Orsyn]

The real question is: how many ioun are needed to create a moving, swirling barrier between the wearer and the external world?

More importantly, could you convince your GM that it grants concealment?

[IAmTehDave]

More importantly, could you convince your GM that it grants concealment?

And if someone really tries to get a good look at you, how many of them can you put a Symbol of Insanity on?

Symbol of Death made Permanent?

[HighWater]

More importantly, could you convince your GM that it grants concealment?

And Total Cover. What's the hardness and HP on an Ioun stone anyway?

[Kamin_Majere]

And Total Cover. What's the hardness and HP on an Ioun stone anyway?

Hardness 5 10HP

[Graypairofsocks]

-Saying Lesser vigor is reduced when used on warforged (false, because the effect is binary, their is no way to 'half' having a trait or not.)

It think it would be reduced (at least by RAW, no idea about RAI) as the living construct subtype says all effects of spells with the healing subschool are halved.





-Contradiction: at one portion it says that subraces can take dragonmarks of their parent race (for duergar and drow), but later says the exact opposite (this time referring to wild elves).

It is not exactly a contradiction as it is referring to 2 different types of Dragonmarks.

It said that Aberrant Dragonmarks can be chosen by subraces, and it said that normal ones can't.