Harpoons and what can you do with them

[Gorr_the_Gastly]

Alright so there are a few renditions of the harpoon out there. But the harpoon does the same damage it does going in or you reroll the damage.

It comes with a rope that allows yoi to keep an impaled foe within 30 feet.

How can you use this or optimize it for a lockdown style build.

[GilesTheCleric]

I'm no master of mundanes, but I imagine that a custom harpoon with reverse gravity on it might be pretty neat. Every time you yank it out, it reverses gravity to re-puncture your foe. Or the reverse, if that seems more reasonable.

If it's not a difficult action to remove it, then having a familiar/animal companion/hired hand to do that part while you throw more harpoons would be effective.

The returning weapon property seems pretty obvious. There's also seeking and blood seeking.

[dascarletm]

attach riverine (or whatever that force water material is) instead of a rope, secure the end into the ground. Hit from multiple anchor points to force the target in place

[Slipperychicken]

It would be really nasty if you could get Fleshgrinding on a harpoon.

You could try putting explosive runes on a riverine harpoon. Make it so the runes are large, wrap around the shaft, and say something eye-catching like "DANGER" in common. The harpoon won't take damage from the attack, and even if the target doesn't read it, you could still use minions to trigger the runes.

[Dawgmoah]

Alright so there are a few renditions of the harpoon out there. But the harpoon does the same damage it does going in or you reroll the damage.

It comes with a rope that allows yoi to keep an impaled foe within 30 feet.

How can you use this or optimize it for a lockdown style build.

In a campaign featuring Raptorans, Averiel (or whatever the name for winged elves are), harpies, and other flying types; tethered harpoons could potentially hit a foe, the harpoon getting stuck into the creature, to have it either reach the end of the tethered length of rope and come crashing down or forced to land inside of the length of the tether. Just an idle idea.

[torrasque666]

I would find it really hilarious for a guy to wrap multiple harpoon leads around his wrists and thus tether down multiple foes. And if they are big enough, begin swinging them.

[Dawgmoah]

I would find it really hilarious for a guy to wrap multiple harpoon leads around his wrists and thus tether down multiple foes. And if they are big enough, begin swinging them.

Reminds me of the meme floating around featuring one guy hitting another guy with a guy he picks up and swings like a club.

[Slipperychicken]

In a campaign featuring Raptorans, Averiel (or whatever the name for winged elves are), harpies, and other flying types; tethered harpoons could potentially hit a foe, the harpoon getting stuck into the creature, to have it either reach the end of the tethered length of rope and come crashing down or forced to land inside of the length of the tether. Just an idle idea.

For extra fun, you could place an immovable rod inside a harpoon, so that the button (explicitly on the end of the rod) is pressed when the harpoon strikes an opponent. That could make life very difficult for a flying target. It makes retrieval a bit difficult, though.

You could also find a way to make an AMF emanate from a harpoon, so you could hit a caster (or another creature with SLAs or supernatural abilities) and keep it more or less useless.

[WhamBamSam]

I posted a thread on this very topic just the other week. I was pretty focused on Factotum builds, since Brains Over Brawn adds Int to the Str check to keep the foe you've stuck within 30ft, bonus damage from things like Knowledge Devotion or Cunning Strike deal damage going in and coming out, and Factotum is generally regarded as a good choice for ranged builds. I also liked the Mauling Gauntlets soulmeld as a way to boost the Str check further. I realized later that you can actually shape both Mauling Gauntlets (arms) and the ever useful for ranged builds Sighting Gloves (hands) without double bind (I had thought they were both hands only), so a little splash of Incarnum is nice as well. Then there's the usual suspects, Brutal Throw/Power Throw, maybe a level of Master Thrower, and so on and so forth.

Here's a stub that I like pretty well.

Human Factotum 8/Incarnate 4/Fighter 2/Swordsage 2/Warblade 4 (Use Azurin instead of Human if multiclass penalties aren't enforced. Use Martial Monk over Fighter to skip over Power Attack in favor of Weapon Supremacy and sneak in Kung Fu Genius if Dragon Magazine is allowed)
1. Factotum 1 - Knowledge Devotion, EWP (Harpoon)
2. Factotum 2
3. Factotum 3 - Brutal Throw
4. Factotum 4
5. Factotum 5
6. Factotum 6 - Quick Draw
7. Factotum 7
8. Factotum 8
9. Incarnate 1 - Shape Soulmeld (Mauling Gauntlets)
10. Incarnate 2
11. Fighter 1 - Power Attack
12. Fighter 2 - Power Throw, Font of Inspiration
13. Incarnate 3
14. Incarnate 4
15. Swordsage 1 - Font of Inspiration
16. Swordsage 2
17. Warblade 1
18. Warblade 2 - Bonus Essentia
19. Warblade 3
20. Warblade 4

Swordsage and Warblade maneuvers should be focused primarily on utility, while picking up Assassin's Stance and whatever else looks good for the purpose of

Here's another, a crusty, hard-bitten old sea captain, flavored with Kobold cheese.

Venerable Dragonwrought Earth Kobold Factotum 8/Ranger 6/Chaos Incarnate 6 (there's probably a better option in absense of multiclass penalties)
1. Factotum 1 - Dragonwrought
2. Factotum 2
3. Factotum 3 - Knowledge Devotion
4. Ranger 1 - Track
5. Ranger 2 - Rapid Shot
6. Ranger 3 - Kobold Endurance, EWP (Harpoon)
7. Incarnate 1
8. Incarnate 2
9. Incarnate 3 - Shape Soulmeld (Mauling Gauntlets)
10. Incarnate 4
11. Factotum 4
12. Ranger 4 - Zen Archery
13. Ranger 5
14. Ranger 6 - Manyshot
15. Incarnate 5 - Epic Essentia
16. Incarnate 6
17. Factotum 5
18. Factotum 6 - Bonus Essentia (If flaws are available, you could potentially sneak in Point Blank Shot earlier in the build and qualify for Storm of Throws)
19. Factotum 7
20. Factotum 8

Between Brains Over Brawn, Kobold Endurance, and Mauling Gauntlets, you're not going to lose any Str checks. Zen Archery, Knowledge Devotion, Incarnate Avatar pump your chances to hit. Knowledge Devotion, Sighting Gloves, and Int boost damage.

[Toliudar]

I've used harpoons as a Bloodstorm Blade, with the intent of bouncing the harpoon around to everything in reach. It's a great mental image.

[Gorr_the_Gastly]

I wonder if you harpooned a guy after a charge does it count as a bullrush. And if you can make a strength check to fling the foe overhead or around into solid objects (dungeoncrasher anyone?)

[Keld Denar]

Is there a Harpoon that does slashing damage? If so...WHIRLING BLADE...lulz.

I don't even know how that would work. The WB explicitly returns to the caster, and it doesn't disappear/reappear like a Returning weapon. That's....awkward.

[geekintheground]

I wonder if you harpooned a guy after a charge does it count as a bullrush.

i dont see why it wouldnt, if youre using the kua'toa harpoon in MMV.

[Gorr_the_Gastly]

Can you Pounce with a ranged weapon? See using a Spirit Lion totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian with Dungeoncrasher to make a dungeoncrash bull rush allows you to make a full attack, can't you do a full attack with a ranged weapon?
Would the dungeoncrasher's attack bonus dice be added to the damage of that harpoon?

[geekintheground]

the kuo'toa (corrected spelling) harpoon is actually a melee weapon that can be thrown, so you can pounce/dungeoncrash with it, though technically you dont deal dungeoncrash damage with a weapon it's its own damage source from the impact of the bullrush

[WhamBamSam]

I wonder if you harpooned a guy after a charge does it count as a bullrush. And if you can make a strength check to fling the foe overhead or around into solid objects (dungeoncrasher anyone?)
i dont see why it wouldnt, if youre using the kua'toa harpoon in MMV.Why would they? The harpoon says what it can do, and making bull rush attempts at range/swinging your enemies around isn't part of that. Your DM might decide to Rule of Cool it, but RAW, neither the harpoon in Stormwrack nor the kuo'toan harpoon in MMV can do that.

[Gorr_the_Gastly]

So how does it deal Dungeon Crash damage, just a shoulder check? What if you had armor spikes on? Or does the fighter just run his face into the bad guy with a lot of force?

EDIT: Yes I am aware of the X button = Swinging the Sword mechanics of D&D I was just curious.

[geekintheground]

So how does it deal Dungeon Crash damage, just a shoulder check? What if you had armor spikes on? Or does the fighter just run his face into the bad guy with a lot of force?

i guess its a shoulder check, but the bottom line is: you dont need a weapon for dungeoncrash. the damage comes from the force of impact of getting sandwitched between the fighter and the other surface.


Why would they? The harpoon says what it can do, and making bull rush attempts at range/swinging your enemies around isn't part of that. Your DM might decide to Rule of Cool it, but RAW, neither the harpoon in Stormwrack nor the kuo'toan harpoon in MMV can do that.

i thought he just meant "at all" and a kuo'toan harpoon can do it in melee, i apologize for my miscommunication.