Making the Most of a Really Crippling Feat?

[ChaoticDitz]

How would you go about building a legitimate meldshaper character with the Undead Meldshaper feat? It's pretty terrible, given that all the good Meldshaping-related feats require a Constitution score. So what would you recommend for a character whose primary focus was meldshaping and they had this feat? Nothing funny like Incarnate 1/Anything Else 19, but like a legitimately Incarnum-focused meldshaping character. Which could still have an Incarnate dip if you somehow need that, but the main shtick of the character should be the meldshaping.

[nedz]

Yeah, it's a known dysfunction; but you can still take levels in Incarnum classes.

[ChaoticDitz]

Yeah, it's a known dysfunction; but you can still take levels in Incarnum classes.

"Known dysfunction"? It's the entire point of the feat! :smallconfused: I'm just trying to, er... Minimize the ineffectiveness? I think that's right. This character probably can't be effective.

[Khatoblepas]

Necrocarnum Acolyte doesn't require a Constitution score, nor it's prestige class, Necrocarnate. You could go the route of harvesting people's soul energy to power your soulmelds.

The only other way to make this work is to have an Undead with a Constitution score. If you can get a Warforged to change type to Undead (Corpse creature?), it may keep it's constitution score (as it's subtype specifically states that it has a constitution score), and you could do it that way? Though Warforged have a Wisdom penalty so even on the offchance that it did work, it wouldn't be very good. Though, I'm really doubtful that it would work, as the entry states "Unlike other Constructs", and not "Unlike other creatures of it's type".

[Coidzor]

Necrocarnate does seem the obvious option, yeah. Though I'd wonder why someone would take the feat without a plan if their DM wasn't willing to play ball with them.

[Ansem]

You could simply apply the clause that CHA replaces CON.

[TuggyNE]

You could simply apply the clause that CHA replaces CON.

I assume you mean as a houserule? Because I seriously doubt there is any such thing in RAW that's applicable.

[WhamBamSam]

I assume you mean as a houserule? Because I seriously doubt there is any such thing in RAW that's applicable.He's probably referring to this, though there's absolutely no reason it would extend to the Undead Meldshaper feat.


Also use Charisma for any DC that normally would be based on an ability score the creature does not have. For example, undead
creatures have no Constitution score, so any poison attacks they
have would use Charisma to determine the save DC.

I can't find it on the SRD though, which is annoying.

Anyway, you don't use Undead Meldshaper because it's beneficial for your meldshaper build to be undead. You use it because your undead build needs meldshaping. For instance, I'm rather fond of Vampiric Venerable Dragonwrought Earth Kobold LA+5/Wu Jen 3/Totemist 2/Soulcaster 10, using Totemist soulmelds alongside Giant Size to make him capable of making the grapple checks necessary to vampirize dragons.

Amusingly enough, this build might not actually work, as due to the weirdness of getting the dragon type from a feat which the kobold still qualifies for after becoming a Vampiric Dragon, it's very possible that his type is still dragon and not undead by RAW. Still, it's an illustrative example of my point. I want to do a thing with the Vampiric Dragon template. That thing is going to require high grapple checks, for which I would like some Totemist soulmelds. I don't really care about other Incarnum feats, but really need to be able to shape and bind soulmelds. Bam. Undead Meldshaper to the rescue.

[TuggyNE]

He's probably referring to this, though there's absolutely no reason it would extend to the Undead Meldshaper feat.

Wow, I misread that the first time and had a whole big post correcting your perceived misunderstanding before I stopped and reread it. But yeah, there really isn't any reason for that to apply.