Can you swing a pig weighing your max load?

[Immabozo]

So the Dragon Mag that brings us such fun as Chicken infested, also brings us the feat that gives you a pig equal to your maximum load. Is there some class that can take advantage of and then swing this horrendously heavy pig? Cause with all manner of strength enhancing shenanigangs, getting hit by this pig could do some damage!

So can it be done?

[ahenobarbi]

Hulking Hurler prestige class (Complete Warrior) lets you throw anything that weights up to your medium load. I don't remember anything that would let you throw maximum load.

[Curmudgeon]

It takes your maximum exertion to simply lift that load, so there's nothing left for swinging and throwing.

[LibraryOgre]

It takes your maximum exertion to simply lift that load, so there's nothing left for swinging and throwing.

What about dropping?

"My maximum load allows me to lift planets. Here is the Moon of Pork!"

[Metahuman1]

An ability to get airborn (Riding a mount or a spell or something.) would let you pick it up, carry it till it generates 20d6 falling damage to itself and what ever it lands on, and then add damage based on weight. Pump str, and that's a LOT of weight.

Bombs away. :smallamused:

[Curmudgeon]

In D&D, all bombs can be avoided with DC 15 Reflex saves, so that's not a particularly effective tactic.

[Bugworlds]

If using it as an anvil, for dropping of course, isn't going to work, I'm thinking some training is in need. Get some spiked armor on that beast. Teach it to overrun. Turn it into a substitute for the open lock skill.

[Immabozo]

It takes your maximum exertion to simply lift that load, so there's nothing left for swinging and throwing.

We dont want to throw it, cause then it will turn into Orcus and skin you alive.

Although that might be funny to mind switch the BBEG and then he's screwed

[Flickerdart]

The solution is remarkably simple.

Consider: We have a pig, which increases indefinitely in weight. We also have a hapless peasant doomed to carry that pig. The peasant can do nothing to change the weight category of the pig, because as soon as he bulks up, so does the pig. Let us assume that this commoner is infected with Festering Anger and has also managed to become immune to the Constitution damage. So he has NI strength.

Preparation: We produce a second commoner, and apply to him the same conditions as the first commoner. Then we add a small additional boon to Strength - the difference between Medium and Maximum load is only ~4 Strength, so we can easily make up the difference. We'll want to jack it up a little higher though because...

Solution: The second commoner bodily picks up the first commoner (who is carrying the NI-heavy pig) and flings him at things pig-first.

[Immabozo]

The solution is remarkably simple.

Consider: We have a pig, which increases indefinitely in weight. We also have a hapless peasant doomed to carry that pig. The peasant can do nothing to change the weight category of the pig, because as soon as he bulks up, so does the pig. Let us assume that this commoner is infected with Festering Anger and has also managed to become immune to the Constitution damage. So he has NI strength.

Preparation: We produce a second commoner, and apply to him the same conditions as the first commoner. Then we add a small additional boon to Strength - the difference between Medium and Maximum load is only ~4 Strength, so we can easily make up the difference. We'll want to jack it up a little higher though because...

Solution: The second commoner bodily picks up the first commoner (who is carrying the NI-heavy pig) and flings him at things pig-first.

Flickerdart, you are my hero. I am so happy right now.

[Vogonjeltz]

The solution is remarkably simple.

Consider: We have a pig, which increases indefinitely in weight. We also have a hapless peasant doomed to carry that pig. The peasant can do nothing to change the weight category of the pig, because as soon as he bulks up, so does the pig. Let us assume that this commoner is infected with Festering Anger and has also managed to become immune to the Constitution damage. So he has NI strength.

Preparation: We produce a second commoner, and apply to him the same conditions as the first commoner. Then we add a small additional boon to Strength - the difference between Medium and Maximum load is only ~4 Strength, so we can easily make up the difference. We'll want to jack it up a little higher though because...

Solution: The second commoner bodily picks up the first commoner (who is carrying the NI-heavy pig) and flings him at things pig-first.

The commoner doing the throwing would need enough strength to lift both the pig and the commoner holding said pig. Is +4 enough?

[Flickerdart]

The commoner doing the throwing would need enough strength to lift both the pig and the commoner holding said pig. Is +4 enough?
You'd need a little more than +4. If you look at the Carrying Capacity table, 933 lbs is the heaviest listed medium carry capacity ( can't be arsed to extrapolate the table), achievable with STR 29. If we shave off 175 lbs off that (the weight of an average adult human in 3.5 - apparently those peasants are packing a few extra pounds) that leaves us with 758 lbs worth of pig. The maximum load that's closest without going over is 700 lbs at STR 24, so we need a gap of +5 (conveniently, a single Tome).

The largest boar in history was 2,552lbs. We would need quite a mighty commoner to lift it, indeed.

[Vogonjeltz]

You'd need a little more than +4. If you look at the Carrying Capacity table, 933 lbs is the heaviest listed medium carry capacity ( can't be arsed to extrapolate the table), achievable with STR 29. If we shave off 175 lbs off that (the weight of an average adult human in 3.5 - apparently those peasants are packing a few extra pounds) that leaves us with 758 lbs worth of pig. The maximum load that's closest without going over is 700 lbs at STR 24, so we need a gap of +5 (conveniently, a single Tome).

The largest boar in history was 2,552lbs. We would need quite a mighty commoner to lift it, indeed.

I approve of this plan.

Instead of a commoner wielding the pig carrier, I would say how about a drunken master who can wield them as an improvised weapon?

[Immabozo]

You'd need a little more than +4. If you look at the Carrying Capacity table, 933 lbs is the heaviest listed medium carry capacity ( can't be arsed to extrapolate the table), achievable with STR 29. If we shave off 175 lbs off that (the weight of an average adult human in 3.5 - apparently those peasants are packing a few extra pounds) that leaves us with 758 lbs worth of pig. The maximum load that's closest without going over is 700 lbs at STR 24, so we need a gap of +5 (conveniently, a single Tome).

The largest boar in history was 2,552lbs. We would need quite a mighty commoner to lift it, indeed.

This is a great mook to throw against your party, haha

[Flickerdart]

I approve of this plan.

Instead of a commoner wielding the pig carrier, I would say how about a drunken master who can wield them as an improvised weapon?
Unfortunately, the drunken master doesn't gain any benefits from wielding an especially large or heavy improvised weapon. Also, technically the commoner is not an object, and so isn't eligible to be an improvised weapon. The pig might be though, as nothing in the flaw states that it needs to be alive.

[Immabozo]

Unfortunately, the drunken master doesn't gain any benefits from wielding an especially large or heavy improvised weapon. Also, technically the commoner is not an object, and so isn't eligible to be an improvised weapon. The pig might be though, as nothing in the flaw states that it needs to be alive.

Could we pick up the pig and throw it and have it twist so it - not the commoner - hits the target? Maybe homebrew a version of Exotic Weapon Proficiency for it?

[Eldest]

Unfortunately, the drunken master doesn't gain any benefits from wielding an especially large or heavy improvised weapon. Also, technically the commoner is not an object, and so isn't eligible to be an improvised weapon. The pig might be though, as nothing in the flaw states that it needs to be alive.

Would this, then, allow for infinite bacon?

[Hangwind]

Would this, then, allow for infinite bacon?

Infinite Bacon...Infinite Chickens...Now we need a source of Infinite barbeque sauce!:smallbiggrin:

[Svata]

Would this, then, allow for infinite bacon?

Not exactly. NI, sure, but truly infinite is impossible because reasons that I am not articulate enough to give. Sorry.

[Immabozo]

Not exactly. NI, sure, but truly infinite is impossible because reasons that I am not articulate enough to give. Sorry.

Infinite anything is impossible, everything has a limit. But not in an abstract universe like D&D! Infinite here we come!

[Flickerdart]

Could we pick up the pig and throw it and have it twist so it - not the commoner - hits the target? Maybe homebrew a version of Exotic Weapon Proficiency for it?
That's a good point. Nothing in the rules says that objects you use as improvised weapons can't have screaming commoners strapped to them.

[Vhaidara]

How has this avoided infamy on the internet? It's as bad/funny as chicken infested.

[Immabozo]

That's a good point. Nothing in the rules says that objects you use as improvised weapons can't have screaming commoners strapped to them.

can I sig this? It is absolutely glorious.

[Immabozo]

How has this avoided infamy on the internet? It's as bad/funny as chicken infested.

I agree, this thread has turned into amazing!

[GutterFace]

Throw some Cancer Mage on with Festering Anger towards your pig. NI Str for pig swinging and hilarious flavor fun

[Flickerdart]

can I sig this? It is absolutely glorious.
Feel free.

[Immabozo]

Throw some Cancer Mage on with Festering Anger towards your pig. NI Str for pig swinging and hilarious flavor fun

I never caught that the cancer mage is immune to the disease's effects. This is glorious!

So a Drunken Master with leadership attracts a follower 1 commoner/x Caner Mage with the Pig Bond feat. With some strength shenanigans, the pig can do NI damage per hit. I love it!

[Naanomi]

This has actual value, since the pig doesn't ever increase in actual size category (or so it seems); and thus once suitably preserved (Quintessence?) makes the ultimate solution to the 'where does the hulking hurler find the adamantine planetoid' problem

[Immabozo]

This has actual value, since the pig doesn't ever increase in actual size category (or so it seems); and thus once suitably preserved (Quintessence?) makes the ultimate solution to the 'where does the hulking hurler find the adamantine planetoid' problem

I think quintessence would stop it from turning into Orcus and killing you, right? Because "ever" implies time, right? If it is never in the time stream, it doesn't qualify!

[Flickerdart]

Questionable. However, if you got enough quintessence to cover Orcus, then once the pig transformed it would remain covered, so you now have Orcus right where you want him.

[Svata]

Only if you're in the Abyss. Oterwose, once he's dead he'll just reform there, eventually, be really angry, and have you as number 1 on his list of peope to kill/torture for eternity.

[Immabozo]

But if he spends eternity covered in quintessence, you have a giant Orcus statue with no downsides! You could certainly take him into the Sbyss and kill him there

[Flickerdart]

The great thing about having Orcus in no-save stasis is that you can do so much more than just kill him. For instance, there are loads of things you can do with a piece of a creature's flesh...

[Immabozo]

The great thing about having Orcus in no-save stasis is that you can do so much more than just kill him. For instance, there are loads of things you can do with a piece of a creature's flesh...

Ice Assassin of Orcus? lol

Tippy's brain might esplode

[Malroth]

Please, in tippyverse 1st lv commoners use PAO'ed Aleax Orcus ice assasins as currency

[Flickerdart]

Please, in tippyverse 1st lv commoners use PAO'ed Aleax Orcus ice assasins as currency
Everyone who's ever watched a mecha anime knows that copies, however perfect, are never a match for the original.

[Immabozo]

Everyone who's ever watched a mecha anime knows that copies, however perfect, are never a match for the original.

But a party of 12 sub-par Orcus copies will overrun the original. There can only be one! Until you make more and use them to kill the one.

[Yawgmoth]

We dont want to throw it, cause then it will turn into Orcus and skin you alive. Wrong. It will turn into Porcus.

[Flickerdart]

But a party of 12 sub-par Orcus copies will overrun the original. There can only be one! Until you make more and use them to kill the one.
The more copies there are, the more useless they are.

[Slipperychicken]

The more copies there are, the more useless they are.

Victory depends on who the protagonist is.

[Immabozo]

Wrong. It will turn into Porcus.

Yawgmoth, you are my hero

EDIT:


The more copies there are, the more useless they are.

this makes me sad

[Flickerdart]

Victory depends on who the protagonist is.
It's very rare to have a show in which the protagonist is a dozen guys that are cloned from another guy that they're trying to kill.

[Immabozo]

It's very rare to have a show in which the protagonist is a dozen guys that are cloned from another guy that they're trying to kill.

Maybe this is the first.

Also, everyone thinks they are the protagonist. And if the original thought it, Gosh darn it! The clones think it too

[Hangwind]

Wrong. It will turn into Porcus.

Is this the god of demonically reanimated ham?

[Slipperychicken]

It's very rare to have a show in which the protagonist is a dozen guys that are cloned from another guy that they're trying to kill.

I think it's a bit more believable in a tabletop RPG.

[Immabozo]

Is this the god of demonically reanimated ham?

Someone needs to post Porcus in the Homebrew section and give hit the Domains of Pork domain, Delicious domain, Breakfast domain and the Bacon domain deserves a domain all to itself.

Delicious domain should get the spell Divine Flavor and be able to grant the Delicious flaw minus the feat, to people.

[Vedhin]

I see that this awesome flaw is finally getting the treatment it so richly deserves.

[Flickerdart]

Eberron Campaign Setting page 106 features the Feast domain, and Spell Compendium page 274 introduces the Gluttony domain. A cleric of Porkus would be well served by selecting them.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Consider: We have a pig, which increases indefinitely in weight. We also have a hapless peasant doomed to carry that pig. The peasant can do nothing to change the weight category of the pig, because as soon as he bulks up, so does the pig. Let us assume that this commoner is infected with Festering Anger and has also managed to become immune to the Constitution damage. So he has NI strength.
Is it just me, or does this give us a lovely method of creating black holes?

[Vogonjeltz]

Unfortunately, the drunken master doesn't gain any benefits from wielding an especially large or heavy improvised weapon. Also, technically the commoner is not an object, and so isn't eligible to be an improvised weapon. The pig might be though, as nothing in the flaw states that it needs to be alive.

I had the strength bonus from being super drunk in mind. Also, weapon damage still increases based on size, the base rule is an additional d6 for every 200 lbs if I recall correctly. The master just starts with a higher minimum damage.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I had the strength bonus from being super drunk in mind. Also, weapon damage still increases based on size, the base rule is an additional d6 for every 200 lbs if I recall correctly. The master just starts with a higher minimum damage.
That's technically true, but irrelevant in this case-- the Drunken Master's ability states that his improvised weapon "deals as much damage as his unarmed strike plus an extra 1d4 points." That overwrites the normal improvised weapon damage.

[Flickerdart]

Is it just me, or does this give us a lovely method of creating black holes?
It might take a while.

Since we have no evidence that the pig increases in size, it is reasonable to assume that it increases in density only, and while that increases its gravity, it also increases its structural strength. A dead star needs to be about 3 solar masses (kind of, my astrophysics are janky) before it collapses into a black hole. I don't know what the volume of a pig is, so let's say it is exactly a 5x5x5ft cube. This cube would weigh 1.3 × 10^31 pounds for the requisite mass. In order to get there, we would need to add 9.4*10^28 rows to the carrying capacity table, meaning that a character would need to gain 9.4*10^29 Strength to carry the pig. That's 4.7*10^29 days of infection from Festering Anger, or 2.8*10^17 lifespans of the Sun.

[Leviting]

wouldn't it just sink through the ground to the core of the planet, and proceed to ruin compasses? Or would the planet wrap around it to account for the massive gravity?

[Flickerdart]

wouldn't it just sink through the ground to the core of the planet, and proceed to ruin compasses? Or would the planet wrap around it to account for the massive gravity?
Once the pig and the planet reach the same weight, the commoner becomes Atlas, eternally holding the weight of the massive pig-sky upon his shoulders.

[Grod_The_Giant]

It might take a while.

Since we have no evidence that the pig increases in size, it is reasonable to assume that it increases in density only, and while that increases its gravity, it also increases its structural strength. A dead star needs to be about 3 solar masses (kind of, my astrophysics are janky) before it collapses into a black hole. I don't know what the volume of a pig is, so let's say it is exactly a 5x5x5ft cube. This cube would weigh 1.3 × 10^31 pounds for the requisite mass. In order to get there, we would need to add 9.4*10^28 rows to the carrying capacity table, meaning that a character would need to gain 9.4*10^29 Strength to carry the pig. That's 4.7*10^29 days of infection from Festering Anger, or 2.8*10^17 lifespans of the Sun.
Fast time planes would definitely have to be involved, aye. On the bright side, you'd probably need a lot less time to simply get a pig so heavy its gravity causes the planet to spiral out of orbit...

[Immabozo]

Fast time planes would definitely have to be involved, aye. On the bright side, you'd probably need a lot less time to simply get a pig so heavy its gravity causes the planet to spiral out of orbit...

This is a marvelous line of thought.

there are plenty of ways to manipulate time. A planar trait + magic + psioncs should work great.

Although, there is nothing that says a plane (presumably pother than the material) is on a planet.

[gomipile]

It might take a while.

Since we have no evidence that the pig increases in size, it is reasonable to assume that it increases in density only, and while that increases its gravity, it also increases its structural strength. A dead star needs to be about 3 solar masses (kind of, my astrophysics are janky) before it collapses into a black hole. I don't know what the volume of a pig is, so let's say it is exactly a 5x5x5ft cube. This cube would weigh 1.3 × 10^31 pounds for the requisite mass. In order to get there, we would need to add 9.4*10^28 rows to the carrying capacity table, meaning that a character would need to gain 9.4*10^29 Strength to carry the pig. That's 4.7*10^29 days of infection from Festering Anger, or 2.8*10^17 lifespans of the Sun.

First, approximate the pig as a sphere 2.5ft in radius. The Schwarzschild radius of a black hole is given by R=2GM/c^2. Solving for M, the mass of a spherical pig with a 2.5ft radius would then be c^2*2.5ft/(2G). That is, M is approximately 5.13*10^26 kg, or 1.13*10^27 pounds.

Also, carrying capacity doubles for every 5 points of strength added for strengths of 10 and above. A strength of 14 gives a maximum load of 175 pounds. 175*2^96 pounds is approximately 1.386*10^31 pounds, which is more than your estimated mass. So, a strength of 14+5*96, or 494, is sufficient for your estimated mass.

For my estimated mass of 1.13*10^27 pounds, a strength of 428 is required for a spherical pig to have an event horizon which fits into a 5x5 square.

[ericgrau]

It might take a while.

Since we have no evidence that the pig increases in size, it is reasonable to assume that it increases in density only, and while that increases its gravity, it also increases its structural strength. A dead star needs to be about 3 solar masses (kind of, my astrophysics are janky) before it collapses into a black hole. I don't know what the volume of a pig is, so let's say it is exactly a 5x5x5ft cube. This cube would weigh 1.3 × 10^31 pounds for the requisite mass. In order to get there, we would need to add 9.4*10^28 rows to the carrying capacity table, meaning that a character would need to gain 9.4*10^29 Strength to carry the pig. That's 4.7*10^29 days of infection from Festering Anger, or 2.8*10^17 lifespans of the Sun.

Nah the carrying capacity table is exponential so for a heavy load of 1.3 * 10^31:
25 * 4^(str/10) = 1.3 * 10^31
4^(str/10) = 5.2 * 10^29
log4(4^(str/10)) = log4(5.2 * 10^29)
str / 10 = 49.357
str = 493.57

A strength of 494 is plenty. Getting that as your max load or medium load makes the strength a little bit higher or lower, but not by much. Around +/-5.

[Immabozo]

My inferior math mind is in awe and my nerd is loving you all right now and wishes I could contribute to this mathematical pig-black hole discussion

[rmnimoc]

Could Ioun stones still properly orbit our black hole pig, and if so, how can we weaponize/convert those into useful tools?

[toapat]

Could Ioun stones still properly orbit our black hole pig, and if so, how can we weaponize/convert those into useful tools?

by magically increasing their hardness so that at an orbit with a 12' diameter their impact with anything would not vaporize them in the thermonuclear strike.

I guess the other question is, why doesnt Atlas the commoner just work at a butcher shop? hes holding a pig that regenerates instantaneously (since the cuts of meat are no longer part of the pig) when its flesh its carved away. Bit mean to the pig but he can singlehandedly feed the entire world.

[Flickerdart]

Could Ioun stones still properly orbit our black hole pig, and if so, how can we weaponize/convert those into useful tools?
In order to activate an ioun stone, a creature must first hold it. A pig cannot do this.

[rmnimoc]

In order to activate an ioun stone, a creature must first hold it. A pig cannot do this.

Can't it hold it in it's mouth/hooves/tail/nose? Or will we have to start crafting humanoid limbs onto it first?

[Immabozo]

Can't it hold it in it's mouth/hooves/tail/nose? Or will we have to start crafting humanoid limbs onto it first?

I dont know if you craft put grafts onto a pig. It might have to be a humanoid, although I am completely unsure

[Vhaidara]

Savage Species, Gloves of Man (I believe). Let's something without hands function as if it has hands.

[Grod_The_Giant]

A strength of 494 is plenty. Getting that as your max load or medium load makes the strength a little bit higher or lower, but not by much. Around +/-5.
Heck, that's less than a year of Festering Anger! You don't even need fancy magic shennanigans; Mind Over Body and a Con of 17 will do that for you.

You can probably polymorph the pig into something with hands, let it start the ioun stone, then change it back.

[Telonius]

You know, we may have been looking at this backwards. Play as an Awakened Pig, get Leadership. Your cohort is a Commoner with the Pig Bond flaw. Separate yourself from your Commoner. His sacrifice will be a sad but necessary step on your way to godhood.

[Naanomi]

A Natural Heavyweight Centaur Commoner speeds up this process significantly doesn't it?

[Inevitability]

You know, we may have been looking at this backwards. Play as an Awakened Pig, get Leadership. Your cohort is a Commoner with the Pig Bond flaw. Separate yourself from your Commoner. His sacrifice will be a sad but necessary step on your way to godhood.

Are there stats for a pig somewhere?

Also, does the ability mean: 'The pig immediately disappears, and Orcus appears where the pig once was.' or; 'The pig immediately gains the stats of Orcus.'

If it's the first, you gain nothing from it.
If it's the second, you'll become an Demon Prince, but how do multiple Orcusses (Orci? Orcushes?) interact with each other?


Okay... this thread started as the question: 'How can you swing a pig weighing as much as you can carry?' and now we're looking for the plural form of Orcus. Internet sure is weird. :smallwink:

[Telonius]

Pathfinder has pig stats here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/pig). Otherwise, there's the Boar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/boar.htm) entry in the SRD.

EDIT: The wording is, "transforms into Orcus." I don't think "transforms" is ever specifically defined.

[Immabozo]

Pathfinder has pig stats here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/pig). Otherwise, there's the Boar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/boar.htm) entry in the SRD.

EDIT: The wording is, "transforms into Orcus." I don't think "transforms" is ever specifically defined.

I would imagine that it is similar to polymorph/shapechange effect. Except you actually turn into Orcus, not a copy, the real deal.

Perhaps it is more like Orcus Is summoned via pig sacrifice? Great version of teleport there.

But the text indicates that the pig becomes Orcus.

[toapat]

If it's the second, you'll become an Demon Prince, but how do multiple Orcusses (Orci? Orcushes?) interact with each other?

kinda like highlander

[Metahuman1]

That's technically true, but irrelevant in this case-- the Drunken Master's ability states that his improvised weapon "deals as much damage as his unarmed strike plus an extra 1d4 points." That overwrites the normal improvised weapon damage.

But ya know, taking a one level dip and then grabbing Hulking Hurler so that your proficient with the improvised weapon your throwing and getting the weight based extra damage on would be rather slick.

[Seer_of_Heart]

If it's the first, you gain nothing from it.
If it's the second, you'll become an Demon Prince, but how do multiple Orcusses (Orci? Orcushes?) interact with each other?


Time travel shenanigans to produce orci?

[Inevitability]

kinda like highlander

I feel like I'm missing a reference here. Could you explain?

[Hangwind]

i feel like i'm missing a reference here. Could you explain?

there can be only one!!

[Inevitability]

Get it now, thanks.

[XmonkTad]

Any way to persist or permanency "Bite of the King" so you could carry around the pig in your stomach? You would need to make the pig immune to dying in there, but otherwise you could store the pig without putting it down.

I'm picturing a commoner with a crazy eye who when he gets in a fight reaches down his own throat and pulls out a (slimy, confused, terrified) live pig and proceeds to wreck face with it. Bonus points if he occasionally pulls out a chicken instead.

[malonkey1]

Any way to persist or permanency "Bite of the King" so you could carry around the pig in your stomach? You would need to make the pig immune to dying in there, but otherwise you could store the pig without putting it down.

I'm picturing a commoner with a crazy eye who when he gets in a fight reaches down his own throat and pulls out a (slimy, confused, terrified) live pig and proceeds to wreck face with it. Bonus points if he occasionally pulls out a chicken instead.

And I now have my next campaign's BBEG.

[Inevitability]

This thread.
So epic.

:smallcool:

[HaikenEdge]

Now that TO has found abuses for Chicken Infested and Pig Bond, I believe it's time to move on to Delicious.

I propose a Kobold Commoner with Skill Knowledge (Iaijutsu Focus), who then takes levels in Psychic Warrior for Compression and specializes in diving down enemy throats and cutting them open from the inside with Gnome Quickrazors.

[toapat]

Now that TO has found abuses for Chicken Infested and Pig Bond, I believe it's time to move on to Delicious.

I propose a Kobold Commoner with Skill Knowledge (Iaijutsu Focus), who then takes levels in Psychic Warrior for Compression and specializes in diving down enemy throats and cutting them open from the inside with Gnome Quickrazors.

Delicious is moreso a substitute for small slight build races, because false size increases/decreases dont stack.

realistically its been fully optimized

Weresheep, Chicken Infested, Pig Bond, and Delicious are all useful and exploitable

Nagging Cough is good for an undead commoner. Corpse and Peasant hat are difficult to work with. Unimportant NPC is great, as is Incomprehensible Accent. XP farm is interesting but should be 44 times xp not 10, so that the killer levels instantly

[HaikenEdge]

Delicious is moreso a substitute for small slight build races, because false size increases/decreases dont stack.

realistically its been fully optimized

Weresheep, Chicken Infested, Pig Bond, and Delicious are all useful and exploitable

Nagging Cough is good for an undead commoner. Corpse and Peasant hat are difficult to work with. Unimportant NPC is great, as is Incomprehensible Accent. XP farm is interesting but should be 44 times xp not 10, so that the killer levels instantly

Corpse is actually really easy to optimize, since it sets the character at dead, but skips the dying phase, so that this is the only things he suffers from:


The character’s hit points are reduced to -10, his Constitution drops to 0, or he is killed outright by a spell or effect. The character’s soul leaves his body. Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic. A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved, but magic that restores a dead character to life also restores the body either to full health or to its condition at the time of death (depending on the spell or device). Either way, resurrected characters need not worry about rigor mortis, decomposition, and other conditions that affect dead bodies.

All the while skipping the following (bolded for emphasis):


A dying character is unconscious and near death. She has -1 to -9 current hit points. A dying character can take no actions and is unconscious. At the end of each round (starting with the round in which the character dropped below 0 hit points), the character rolls d% to see whether she becomes stable. She has a 10% chance to become stable. If she does not, she loses 1 hit point. If a dying character reaches -10 hit points, she is dead.

So, by a strict reading of RAW, being dead does not make the character unconscious, nor does it prevent the character from taking actions, since those are actually associated with the status of Dying, rather than Dead. The only problem might be the rotting and the soul being separated from the body, but I don't think there are actually any rules regarding the separation of soul and body (at least I'm not aware of them), so the Corpse flaw isn't all that bad.

[XmonkTad]

Now that TO has found abuses for Chicken Infested and Pig Bond, I believe it's time to move on to Delicious.

I propose a Kobold Commoner with Skill Knowledge (Iaijutsu Focus), who then takes levels in Psychic Warrior for Compression and specializes in diving down enemy throats and cutting them open from the inside with Gnome Quickrazors.

Forget compression, just enough ranks in Escape Artist to squeeze down any throat would be good enough (DC 80). Remember to take tunnel fighting. Also, this is the best "taunt" mechanic.

I can't see a good way to optomize Dirt Farmer other than putting ranks into "profession(dirt farmer)" to boost your income. If you picked up a ring of sustenance, you would free up 6 hours of your day...

[HaikenEdge]

Forget compression, just enough ranks in Escape Artist to squeeze down any throat would be good enough (DC 80). Remember to take tunnel fighting. Also, this is the best "taunt" mechanic.

I can't see a good way to optomize Dirt Farmer other than putting ranks into "profession(dirt farmer)" to boost your income. If you picked up a ring of sustenance, you would free up 6 hours of your day...

Play it together with Corpse? I imagine if you're already dead, you can't be killed, since Dead + Dead still equals Dead.

[Immabozo]

This thread.
So epic.

:smallcool:

It really is! I am so happy my thread turned into this awesome!


Delicious is moreso a substitute for small slight build races, because false size increases/decreases dont stack.

realistically its been fully optimized

No. One makes you smaller, the other makes you count as even smaller for swallow whole abilities. They stack just fine.

Size small, and the compression, to get tiny, and Delicious gets you to count as fine for swallow whole abilities.

But what if a character doesn't have the swallow whole ability? Like a human doesn't naturally have the swallow whole ability, so can you, by RAW, count as 2 sizes smaller since you are not being subjected to the swallow whole ability?

[Necroticplague]

Corpse is actually really easy to optimize, since it sets the character at dead, but skips the dying phase, so that this is the only things he suffers from:



All the while skipping the following (bolded for emphasis):



So, by a strict reading of RAW, being dead does not make the character unconscious, nor does it prevent the character from taking actions, since those are actually associated with the status of Dying, rather than Dead. The only problem might be the rotting and the soul being separated from the body, but I don't think there are actually any rules regarding the separation of soul and body (at least I'm not aware of them), so the Corpse flaw isn't all that bad.

Or being slightly less ridiculous, just be undead. Undead are already dead, so their just doubling up on it. So for a necropolitan or a ghost, its essentially a 1 level dip for a feat (because you'd need to be a commoner).

[Immabozo]

Or being slightly less ridiculous, just be undead. Undead are already dead, so their just doubling up on it. So for a necropolitan or a ghost, its essentially a 1 level dip for a feat (because you'd need to be a commoner).

I disagree, because undead are still subject to dying from HP damage (or are the "destroyed"? that suddenly seems much more likely)

In that case,, I refer you to me username

[Inevitability]

I just noted the flaw says:


The pig refuses to walk on its own.

What does that mean? Well, it means that if you can give the pig a fly speed, swim speed or climb speed (spiderpig!), it'll move like any pig would. You still have to keep it close to you, but hey, you get to wear what you want!

[Marnath]

In order to activate an ioun stone, a creature must first hold it. A pig cannot do this.

I guess you've never seen a pig pick up a marble then. They move the snout flat on the ground and scoot under the object(marble, walnut, whatever) then tilt back the nose until it pinches the object against the snout.( the round piece of the nose rotates, I bet you didn't know they could do that.)

[Vedhin]

Since people are talking about Corpse, don't forget it gives two feats. One from being a Flaw, the second from the Effect entry.

Also, any ideas for Unimportant NPC and Incomprehensible Accent?

[Inevitability]

Incomprehensible Accent would be nice for a spy. Even if they are caught, they can't be tortured, charmed or otherwise forced to tell anything.

[malonkey1]

Incomprehensible Accent would be nice for a spy. Even if they are caught, they can't be tortured, charmed or otherwise forced to tell anything.

Now imagining a dead Swedish Chef with a pig running around, wrecking s**t up.

[Immabozo]

Since people are talking about Corpse, don't forget it gives two feats. One from being a Flaw, the second from the Effect entry.

Also, any ideas for Unimportant NPC and Incomprehensible Accent?

You're not undead, you are dead, dead. Your no longer a functioning character in any way, shape or form. I guess you can be risen by some means, but by means of the flaw, you are dead.

So only 1 feat

[Vhaidara]

The joke with Corpse stems from the fact that being Dead does nothing to hinder you taking actions by RAW. Dying disables you, but once you're dead there is no rule to stop you from standing up and beating people to death.

There's a campaign I do and don't want to run where everyone has to be built around some stupid rules mechanic, and one of my friends wants to play a thri-kreen dual-wielding scythes who coup de graces himself at the beginning of every fight.

[HaikenEdge]

You're not undead, you are dead, dead. Your no longer a functioning character in any way, shape or form. I guess you can be risen by some means, but by means of the flaw, you are dead.

So only 1 feat

I already went over this a couple posts ago:


Dead
The character’s hit points are reduced to -10, his Constitution drops to 0, or he is killed outright by a spell or effect. The character’s soul leaves his body. Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic. A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved, but magic that restores a dead character to life also restores the body either to full health or to its condition at the time of death (depending on the spell or device). Either way, resurrected characters need not worry about rigor mortis, decomposition, and other conditions that affect dead bodies.

Whereas, for Dying:


Dying
A dying character is unconscious and near death. She has -1 to -9 current hit points. A dying character can take no actions and is unconscious. At the end of each round (starting with the round in which the character dropped below 0 hit points), the character rolls d% to see whether she becomes stable. She has a 10% chance to become stable. If she does not, she loses 1 hit point. If a dying character reaches -10 hit points, she is dead.

This clearly states that being unable to take actions and unconscious are properties of the status of Dying, rather than the status of Dead, and while death usually entails entering the Dying status first (since it's most commonly caused by hit point damage), the flaw never mentions the Corpse was actually ever Dying, so, in effect, you can function just fine, minus having your soul separated from your body and your body rotting.

[Vedhin]

This clearly states that being unable to take actions and unconscious are properties of the status of Dying, rather than the status of Dead, and while death usually entails entering the Dying status first (since it's most commonly caused by hit point damage), the flaw never mentions the Corpse was actually ever Dying, so, in effect, you can function just fine, minus having your soul separated from your body and your body rotting.

And the soul thing is likely an upside; you can make a good argument that soul-based whatnot doesn't work on you.

[HaikenEdge]

And the soul thing is likely an upside; you can make a good argument that soul-based whatnot doesn't work on you.

I'm actually curious how many spells or effects that can see or target a soul that's outside its body. I think Trap the Soul and Magic Jar both work, but I'm unclear if there are any other ones.

I mean, I imagine the Soul can serve as an invisible, soundless scout for the party, while the body just straight kills things, uses magic, etc.

[Vedhin]

I'm actually curious how many spells or effects that can see or target a soul that's outside its body. I think Trap the Soul and Magic Jar both work, but I'm unclear if there are any other ones.

I mean, I imagine the Soul can serve as an invisible, soundless scout for the party, while the body just straight kills things, uses magic, etc.

Trap the Soul amusingly doesn't require the target to have a soul. To the Dysfunctional RAW thread!

[HaikenEdge]

Trap the Soul amusingly doesn't require the target to have a soul. To the Dysfunctional RAW thread!

You're right, and since the "life force" isn't clearly defined anywhere as the soul, a Corpse commoner could still function with its soul, albeit without the body.

[Immabozo]

I already went over this a couple posts ago:

Whereas, for Dying:

This clearly states that being unable to take actions and unconscious are properties of the status of Dying, rather than the status of Dead, and while death usually entails entering the Dying status first (since it's most commonly caused by hit point damage), the flaw never mentions the Corpse was actually ever Dying, so, in effect, you can function just fine, minus having your soul separated from your body and your body rotting.

Have you posted this in the dysfunctional rules yet?

[Vhaidara]

Oh, this one's pretty famous. It's up there with drown healing.

[XmonkTad]

Incomprehensible Accent would go quite well with Amplify, but it's effects are so minor. You can still write normally and projecting your thoughts doesn't include babble.

[Immabozo]

Could incomprehensible accent give opposed spellcraft DC's harder to make, assuming a verbal component, due to nobody understanding what you are saying? Perhaps even mis-indentifying your spells? Like someone thinks you are casting magic missile and then if hit by a lightning bolt to the face, which then bounces off the wall behind him?

[Psyren]

The joke with Corpse stems from the fact that being Dead does nothing to hinder you taking actions by RAW. Dying disables you, but once you're dead there is no rule to stop you from standing up and beating people to death.

Actually there is, but the rule is hard to find because it's in the special abilities section of the MM:


In case it matters, a dead character, no matter how she died, has -10 hit points.

Why does this matter? Because of the nonlethal damage rules:


Certain attacks deal nonlethal damage. Other effects, such as heat or being exhausted, also deal nonlethal damage. When you take nonlethal damage, keep a running total of how much you’ve accumulated. Do not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points. It is not "real" damage. Instead, when your nonlethal damage equals your current hit points, you’re staggered, and when it exceeds your current hit points, you fall unconscious. It doesn’t matter whether the nonlethal damage equals or exceeds your current hit points because the nonlethal damage has gone up or because your current hit points have gone down.

In other words, even if you don't have any nonlethal damage, that means your nonlethal = 0. Since nonlethal damage can never be negative but HP can be, being dead means you are at -10 and therefore that your 0 nonlethal exceeds your -10 real. This means that all dead characters are at the very least permanently unconscious, and therefore incapable of taking actions.

[Vhaidara]

Wait, could this be comboed with that Lucid Dreaming skill?

[HaikenEdge]

In other words, even if you don't have any nonlethal damage, that means your nonlethal = 0. Since nonlethal damage can never be negative but HP can be, being dead means you are at -10 and therefore that your 0 nonlethal exceeds your -10 real. This means that all dead characters are at the very least permanently unconscious, and therefore incapable of taking actions.

By that definition, all dying creatures are unconscious too, due to being under 0 HP, and the Diehard feat (and spells, effects and class features like it) are clearly useless, since they allow the character to act while Disabled, but not Unconscious. I guess this goes into the Dysfunctional Rules, then?

[Psyren]

By that definition, all dying creatures are unconscious too, due to being under 0 HP, and the Diehard feat (and spells, effects and class features like it) are clearly useless, since they allow the character to act while Disabled, but not Unconscious. I guess this goes into the Dysfunctional Rules, then?

Diehard et al. are a case of specific overriding general. In fact, Diehard itself tells you:


Normal
A character without this feat who is reduced to between -1 and -9 hit points is unconscious and dying.

And yes, this does mean characters with -1 or less without special circumstances are unconscious - that is intended.

[HaikenEdge]

Diehard et al. are a case of specific overriding general. In fact, Diehard itself tells you:



And yes, this does mean characters with -1 or less without special circumstances are unconscious - that is intended.

I disagree, due to these quotes:


a character whose nonlethal damage exceeds his hit points becomes unconscious.


When reduced to negative hit points, you may choose to act as if you were disabled, rather than dying.

This only applies the unconsciousness caused by the Dying status, not the unconsciousness applied by having nonlethal damage greater than your hit points, which is unconsciousness being applied separately, since you can be rendered unconscious due to having more nonlethal damage than your HP without going into the Dying status, since the unconsciousness caused by Dying is not explicitly stated as being caused by nonlethal damage.

Yes, you would normally be unconscious due to the Dying status, which Diehard allows you to supercede; however, you'd still also be unconscious due to having nonlethal damage higher than your HP, so Diehard effectively does nothing.

[Psyren]

You're assuming here that "dying unconscious" and "nonlethal exceeds current HP due to negative HP unconscious" are two separate states. It's equally valid to say that the reason you are unconscious while dying is because you can't be dying without having a HP total that is less than your nonlethal damage total, and that one is simply a more detailed explanation of the other.

[Inevitability]

I think a good argument could be made for counting undead creatures as dead.

The most common definition of 'dead' is:


Something that once lived, but does not live anymore.

Technically, this includes undead.

[HaikenEdge]

You're assuming here that "dying unconscious" and "nonlethal exceeds current HP due to negative HP unconscious" are two separate states. It's equally valid to say that the reason you are unconscious while dying is because you can't be dying without having a HP total that is less than your nonlethal damage total, and that one is simply a more detailed explanation of the other.

It's not clearly defined. It's a minor hole in the rules.

[malonkey1]

Since we're talking about Commoner Flaws, can the Peasant's Hat be a hat of disguise?

[Raishoiken]

Infinite Bacon...Infinite Chickens...Now we need a source of Infinite barbeque sauce!:smallbiggrin:

Polymorph any object on sections cut off the pig; the pig will either grow or regenerate to retain the weight specifications of the flaw. Infinite everything?

[Immabozo]

Polymorph any object on sections cut off the pig; the pig will either grow or regenerate to retain the weight specifications of the flaw. Infinite everything?

I dont know if you can PAO a section of a creature and not the rest

[malonkey1]

I dont know if you can PAO a section of a creature and not the rest

You can if you cut it off first.

[Immabozo]

You can if you cut it off first.

lol, true, very true

[gomipile]

I just noted the flaw says:



What does that mean? Well, it means that if you can give the pig a fly speed, swim speed or climb speed (spiderpig!), it'll move like any pig would. You still have to keep it close to you, but hey, you get to wear what you want!

Or burrow.

"Black hole pig
Won't you dig
And hide us from the rain...."

[Immabozo]

Or burrow.

"Black hole pig
Won't you dig
And hide us from the rain...."

hahahaha, this is priceless

[The Viscount]

You can if you cut it off first.

This assumes that if you cut off a piece of the pig and put some distance between it and you that it won't trigger the Porcus clause. This will need testing first.

[Immabozo]

This assumes that if you cut off a piece of the pig and put some distance between it and you that it won't trigger the Porcus clause. This will need testing first.

would only a part of it turn into a part of Porcus? so if you make him into bacon and then have lunch with your political opponents, can you walk away and the bacon in their stomach turns into Porus? Would that poison them? Or perhaps expand to the point of rupturing their stomach

[The Viscount]

Due to the mystical nature of the feat and the fact that many commoners can have Pig bond, I'd say every piece turns into a full Porcus, or at least an aspect thereof. That being said, if you wanted to destroy a town you could use a Pig bonded commoner, and have him set up a bacon stand. Since it only takes one Porcus to skin a commoner, the rest of the Porci would be free to run rampant about the town.

[Immabozo]

Due to the mystical nature of the feat and the fact that many commoners can have Pig bond, I'd say every piece turns into a full Porcus, or at least an aspect thereof. That being said, if you wanted to destroy a town you could use a Pig bonded commoner, and have him set up a bacon stand. Since it only takes one Porcus to skin a commoner, the rest of the Porci would be free to run rampant about the town.

Well, if people eat the bacon and the bacon turns into Porcu in their stomach, the diner is instagibbed. Or what is that term that was from Quake when you got a kill by teleporting into a spot where another was? Frag, or something like that?

What does Porcus do after the commoner is dead? Or the Porcus aspect

[Banaticus]

This pig is not a Transformer. Orcus is not stuck inside that pig flesh, waiting for the pig to be more than a few inches away from the commoner, so he can transform into Orcus and skin the commoner.

The pig is a pig. If the pig gets more than a few inches away from the commoner, then the pig becomes Orcus.

[Telonius]

Well, the flaw says Orcus will "skin" you, so presumably he could make himself a nice set of Leather armor.

[Immabozo]

This pig is not a Transformer. Orcus is not stuck inside that pig flesh, waiting for the pig to be more than a few inches away from the commoner, so he can transform into Orcus and skin the commoner.

The pig is a pig. If the pig gets more than a few inches away from the commoner, then the pig becomes Orcus.

I am not saying he blows up the pig, I am saying the pig pieces that were served up as bacon get inside medium sized commoner stomachs and then suddenly become a huge sized demon who erupts from the commoner's chest a la Aliens style and skins the commoner that was pig bound.

[Coidzor]

Well, if people eat the bacon and the bacon turns into Porcu in their stomach, the diner is instagibbed. Or what is that term that was from Quake when you got a kill by teleporting into a spot where another was? Frag, or something like that?

What does Porcus do after the commoner is dead? Or the Porcus aspect

Telefrag, I believe.

Good question.

[Immabozo]

Telefrag, I believe.

Good question.

Well, he just skinned the commoner his pig form was previously bonded to. Perhaps he is bloodthirsty and goes on a rampage? Or maybe he turns the commoner into bacon and eats him? I mean, he HAS gone through all that trouble to skin the commoner, and can you imagine how much bacon these commoners must have eaten? Maybe it is time for a dose of their own medicine. Maybe it is time to pay the piper. He's gotta take one for the team.

Maybe he is our bacon Jesus. He died so all your bacon may be forgiven.

May all our bacon be forgot,
And always on our minds.....

[Inevitability]

Where is this thread headed to? :smalleek:

[3WhiteFox3]

I just realized something...

What if a commoner with Pig Bond got separated from his pig in Sigil? I doubt the Lady of Pain will be happy with Orcus being inside her city regardless of whether it was an aspect or not... Might even lead her to kill the actual Orcus for daring to come inside.

[Vedhin]

I just realized something...

What if a commoner with Pig Bond got separated from his pig in Sigil? I doubt the Lady of Pain will be happy with Orcus being inside her city regardless of whether it was an aspect or not... Might even lead her to kill the actual Orcus for daring to come inside.

Orcus isn't an actual deity, so he'd likely just be banished.

There's a thought. If the Commoner stands less than 5ft from an inter-planar portal, throws the pig through, and the portal is closed immediately (say it can only transmit a single creature every 1,000 years), what happens?

[Hangwind]

Wait... If the pig is at the commoner's absolute maximum carrying load...what is the commoner wearing?:smallfrown:

[Vedhin]

Wait... If the pig is at the commoner's absolute maximum carrying load...what is the commoner wearing?:smallfrown:

The SRD says:


Lifting and Dragging
A character can lift as much as his or her maximum load over his or her head.
A character can lift as much as double his or her maximum load off the ground, but he or she can only stagger around with it. While overloaded in this way, the character loses any Dexterity bonus to AC and can move only 5 feet per round (as a full-round action (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fullRoundActions)).
A character can generally push or drag along the ground as much as five times his or her maximum load. Favorable conditions can double these numbers, and bad circumstances can reduce them to one-half or less.

[3WhiteFox3]

Orcus isn't an actual deity, so he'd likely just be banished.

There's a thought. If the Commoner stands less than 5ft from an inter-planar portal, throws the pig through, and the portal is closed immediately (say it can only transmit a single creature every 1,000 years), what happens?

I'm finding contradictory information about whether or not Orcus is considered a deity or not. Wikipedia says that he is, and I just checked Libris Mortis, and it states that Orcus is not an actual deity, but worshiped as one by many intelligent undead. The implication is that he's fairly close, if not actually there just yet. Does anyone have a copy of Ghostwalk they can check? Apparently he was also explicitly made a deity there.

[Vhaidara]

He tried, died, became Tenebrus, who was a god, then got pissy that Orcus wasn't a god and came back as Orcus, but isn't a god anymore. Or something like that.

[Vedhin]

I'm finding contradictory information about whether or not Orcus is considered a deity or not. Wikipedia says that he is, and I just checked Libris Mortis, and it states that Orcus is not an actual deity, but worshiped as one by many intelligent undead. The implication is that he's fairly close, if not actually there just yet. Does anyone have a copy of Ghostwalk they can check? Apparently he was also explicitly made a deity there.

In order of events:

1: Orcus becomes Demon Prince of undead and death and such.
2: Drow goddess of undeath offs him.
3: Orcus is so stubborn that his shadow comes back a Tenebrous, a god of undeath and such.
4: Tenebrous wants to be Orcus, so he finds the Last Word and starts murdering gods to get info.
5: Tenebrous manages to become Orcus, but loses godhood in the process.
6: Tenebrous departs to vestigehood.
7: Orcus resumes being the Demon Prince of undead and death and such.

[3WhiteFox3]

In order of events:

1: Orcus becomes Demon Prince of undead and death and such.
2: Drow goddess of undeath offs him.
3: Orcus is so stubborn that his shadow comes back a Tenebrous, a god of undeath and such.
4: Tenebrous wants to be Orcus, so he finds the Last Word and starts murdering gods to get info.
5: Tenebrous manages to become Orcus, but loses godhood in the process.
6: Tenebrous departs to vestigehood.
7: Orcus resumes being the Demon Prince of undead and death and such.

Ok, so Orcus probably would just be booted from Sigil... That's too bad, I thought it would be an amusing way to kill Orcus.

[malonkey1]

Ok, so Orcus probably would just be booted from Sigil... That's too bad, I thought it would be an amusing way to kill Orcus.

A deadly Demon Prince with divine aspirations snooping around in Sigil? The Lady would probably not chance it.

[3WhiteFox3]

A deadly Demon Prince with divine aspirations snooping around in Sigil? The Lady would probably not chance it.

Thinking about it, I totally agree with you. It sets a bad precedent with the other deities. If you find away to lose your divinity for a little while, you can hang around in Sigil for however long you want. That's a message she doesn't want to send to the deities just in case they start getting stupid ideas. He's shown that he definitely wants to be a deity, he has become one in his past, he's worshiped by many beings, and he's at the cusp of actually being a deity. If I were the Lady, I'd definitely kill first and ask questions later.

[Vedhin]

Thinking about it, I totally agree with you. It sets a bad precedent with the other deities. If you find away to lose your divinity for a little while, you can hang around in Sigil for however long you want. That's a message she doesn't want to send to the deities just in case they start getting stupid ideas. He's shown that he definitely wants to be a deity, he has become one in his past, he's worshiped by many beings, and he's at the cusp of actually being a deity. If I were the Lady, I'd definitely kill first and ask questions later.

Finder Wyvernspur has already done the "temporarily lose divinity" sort of thing and gotten away with it. Heck, he was more a deity then than Orcus is now.

[Immabozo]

Where is this thread headed to? :smalleek:

To greatness

[Hangwind]

Okay, fair warning: This is a really disturbing idea. PG13. If you read past the spoiler, I am not responsible for any trauma or loss of sleep. Cool?

Okay, a commoner with Pig Bond will naturally have a tough time wearing armor. He also has a pig as large as his strength score that regenerates endlessly. so use the one to solve the other. Take the pig, cut it open, and insert a metal or wood tube. Then wrap the regenerating pig around the tube and put yourself inside it. Now you have a layer of literal meat armor that protects you from everything except AoE spells since nothing has line-of-sight and they can't get rid of the pig. Attacking will be a bit difficult, but I'm sure someone can think of something.

[Flickerdart]

Okay, fair warning: This is a really disturbing idea. PG13. If you read past the spoiler, I am not responsible for any trauma or loss of sleep. Cool?

Okay, a commoner with Pig Bond will naturally have a tough time wearing armor. He also has a pig as large as his strength score that regenerates endlessly. so use the one to solve the other. Take the pig, cut it open, and insert a metal or wood tube. Then wrap the regenerating pig around the tube and put yourself inside it. Now you have a layer of literal meat armor that protects you from everything except AoE spells since nothing has line-of-sight and they can't get rid of the pig. Attacking will be a bit difficult, but I'm sure someone can think of something.


Nothing about the pig requires it to regenerate, endlessly or at all. The only stipulation is that it must remain the same weight, but running a sword through its flesh doesn't make it lighter.

[Hangwind]

Bloodloss. Plus, it doesn't change the fact that they can't target you-only the pig (Or its corpse)

[Flickerdart]

Even if the blood replenishes, it's still not going to stop a sword.

[Vogonjeltz]

That's technically true, but irrelevant in this case-- the Drunken Master's ability states that his improvised weapon "deals as much damage as his unarmed strike plus an extra 1d4 points." That overwrites the normal improvised weapon damage.

Which is the starting damage. Weight based damage just piles on top of that.

*i just noticed these commoner flaws are all from the April fools edition of the magazine. That certainly explains a lot.

[Immabozo]

i just noticed these commoner flaws are all from the April fools edition of the magazine. That certainly explains a lot.

That was mentioned earlier and explain a lot to me as well

[XmonkTad]

Even if the LoP doesn't banish Porcus, she would still kill it as soon as you started getting skinned.

[Coidzor]

Wait... If the pig is at the commoner's absolute maximum carrying load...what is the commoner wearing?:smallfrown:

I can't recall the exact place in the rules text, but the first outfit, IIRC, is both free and doesn't count against carrying capacity.

[SamaelOfChaos]

QUESTION!
Commoner after much hardship becomes a high level psion. He uses Assimilate (or some similar spell/power that absorbs the pig into himself). What happens?

[Immabozo]

QUESTION!
Commoner after much hardship becomes a high level psion. He uses Assimilate (or some similar spell/power that absorbs the pig into himself). What happens?

I would assume a pig means you only get one. Once it is gone, it is gone. Free feat?

[Flickerdart]

Assimilate leaves behind a trace of dust. That dust weighs your maximum load. Better get a really strong jar to hold it in.

[Vedhin]

Even if the LoP doesn't banish Porcus, she would still kill it as soon as you started getting skinned.

Umm, why? Does she have a reason to waste her time/energy on somebody beating up a commoner?

[malonkey1]

I can't recall the exact place in the rules text, but the first outfit, IIRC, is both free and doesn't count against carrying capacity.

Plus, if you've optimized Strength properly, the wight of the clothing should be statistically insignificant. :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

Plus, if you've optimized Strength properly, the wight of the clothing should be statistically insignificant. :smalltongue:

Hopefully if you're in such straits that you're taking clothing from wights you'd at least have the sense to remove the wight first. :smallamused:


Umm, why? Does she have a reason to waste her time/energy on somebody beating up a commoner?

Mostly it's that Porcus isn't exactly a somebody, more of a Somebody. Or at least that's my take on the argument.

[TuggyNE]

Hopefully if you're in such straits that you're taking clothing from wights you'd at least have the sense to remove the wight first. :smallamused:

"This suit uses patented WightPak technology to protect against insect damage. Remove wight before use."

[malonkey1]

Hopefully if you're in such straits that you're taking clothing from wights you'd at least have the sense to remove the wight first. :smallamused:

Hah. You know what I meant. :smalltongue:

[Vedhin]

Hah. You know what I meant. :smalltongue:

Yes. You meant to drain our levels, triggering the Wightpocalypse. But we're on to your scheme.

[TiaC]

I can't believe no one has come up with this already. Play a Thri-kreen commoner. Let go of the pig. The pig transforms into Porcus, and then just wanders off. You see, Thri-kreen don't have skin, they have an exoskeleton.

[Inevitability]

Or be a ghost.

Or, just to be sure, a thri-kreen ghost.

[Immabozo]

I can't believe no one has come up with this already. Play a Thri-kreen commoner. Let go of the pig. The pig transforms into Porcus, and then just wanders off. You see, Thri-kreen don't have skin, they have an exoskeleton.

I dont think that gets around "skinning", just because you dont have a "skin"

"noun: body covering of a living animal... verb: strip the skin off"

the exoskeleton still is a bodily covering.

Although ghost certainly works! No bodily covering on account of no body.

However, the feat says you HAVE to carry the pig. As a ghost, you can carry the pig with you, because specifics trumps general. Now you can make your pig fly! And no one will be the wiser!

[TuggyNE]

Although ghost certainly works! No bodily covering on account of no body.

However, the feat says you HAVE to carry the pig. As a ghost, you can carry the pig with you, because specifics trumps general. Now you can make your pig fly! And no one will be the wiser!

Since ghosts actually do have bodies on the Ethereal, and Str scores no less, presumably that is where you must carry the pig. And if you then drop it, I'm not sure what effect being skinned would have on a ghost, but it couldn't be pleasant.

[Vedhin]

Since ghosts actually do have bodies on the Ethereal, and Str scores no less, presumably that is where you must carry the pig. And if you then drop it, I'm not sure what effect being skinned would have on a ghost, but it couldn't be pleasant.

If we had an awakened cow ghost Commoner 1 with Pig Bond, we could get ghost touch leather armor without needing to make it +1. Except it would apply only to incorporeal touch attacks.

[The Viscount]

What if we have a dustform commoner, or a necropolitan commoner? A dustform creature can't really be skinned, and a necropolitan wouldn't necessarily die from being skinned. After you survive Orcus' skinning, the flaw makes no mention of further consequences, so free feat!

[Immabozo]

What if we have a dustform commoner, or a necropolitan commoner? A dustform creature can't really be skinned, and a necropolitan wouldn't necessarily die from being skinned. After you survive Orcus' skinning, the flaw makes no mention of further consequences, so free feat!

exactly, it says "which presumably kills you" or some similar wording.

I doubt a ghost would die from skinning. (corporeal) Undead would not die from being skinned.

[Inevitability]

Constructs probably wouldn't either. Or oozes.

[Adverb]

It's very rare to have a show in which the protagonist is a dozen guys that are cloned from another guy that they're trying to kill.

Wasn't this the plot of Final Fantasy VII?

[Immabozo]

Constructs probably wouldn't either. Or oozes.

True. Does Porcus have PAO? cause that would be funny. None of those forms die from skinning... yet

[The Viscount]

He actually does not, so you're still safe.

[Inevitability]

It also depends on how much effort Porcus will make to skin you. He may just throw you onto a small demiplane, capture a wizard, and force him to PaO you.

[Immabozo]

It also depends on how much effort Porcus will make to skin you. He may just throw you onto a small demiplane, capture a wizard, and force him to PaO you.

True. If Porcus is determined, you are SOL

[Necroticplague]

Since ghosts actually do have bodies on the Ethereal, and Str scores no less, presumably that is where you must carry the pig. And if you then drop it, I'm not sure what effect being skinned would have on a ghost, but it couldn't be pleasant.

However, the ethereal plane has no gravity. So regardless of the pig's mass, it has no weight.

[Immabozo]

However, the ethereal plane has no gravity. So regardless of the pig's mass, it has no weight.

Interesting point. So what happens? Does the pig instantly collapse into the a fore mentioned black hole since it's "weight" increases infinitely, since it's actual weight never equals you max load?

[RolkFlameraven]

Interesting point. So what happens? Does the pig instantly collapse into the a fore mentioned black hole since it's "weight" increases infinitely, since it's actual weight never equals you max load?

It couldn't as there is no gravity!

[malonkey1]

Interesting point. So what happens? Does the pig instantly collapse into the a fore mentioned black hole since it's "weight" increases infinitely, since it's actual weight never equals you max load?

Now you're assuming gravitational mass is the same as inertial mass. (http://xkcd.com/89/)

[Immabozo]

Now you're assuming gravitational mass is the same as inertial mass. (http://xkcd.com/89/)

Isn't what I said, exactly what you link just said?


It couldn't as there is no gravity!

That's the point. There is no gravity, so the pig becomes infinitely dense until it creates its own gravity and collapses into a black hole.

[Vaz]

Out of interest, I just popped in here to read exactly what caused 6 pages of talk about pig swinging.

1st thing; WAT?

2nd thing; carry on.

[TiaC]

If you're playing 3.P, you could cast Skinsend first. Then you are immune to skinning.

Otherwise, I'd just go with regeneration. Unless Porcus uses the right type of damage, you will survive and even regrow your skin.

[Inevitability]

Possible. Of course, it is also possible that Porcus skins you, sees your skin regrow, skins you again, sees your skin regrow... Well, you get what I'm saying.

I dunno, but I prefer a painful death over an eternity of continuous agony.

EDIT: And people may even end up making sure you stay alive, as Porcus will be free to ravage the material plane once he's killed you.

[Immabozo]

Out of interest, I just popped in here to read exactly what caused 6 pages of talk about pig swinging.

1st thing; WAT?

2nd thing; carry on.

haha, thank you Vaz my friend.

That is a very interesting way to get around skinning, seeing as you are already skinned.

[pwykersotz]

Wasn't this the plot of Final Fantasy VII?

...you just blew my mind. :smalltongue:

[Inevitability]

I can't believe we didn't get any mind-blows until page 7. Seriously, I expected this thread to do better.

[Immabozo]

I can't believe we didn't get any mind-blows until page 7. Seriously, I expected this thread to do better.

my mind ='ed blown on page 2 when black holes came up. It was just so blown I was speechless.

[TiaC]

That's the point. There is no gravity, so the pig becomes infinitely dense until it creates its own gravity and collapses into a black hole.

it's entirely possible that no gravity means that mass does not generate a gravitational force. In that case, the pig would become infinitely dense without collapsing. It would therefore be an immovable object. However, there are still ways of moving it, so the irresistible force still wins.

[Immabozo]

it's entirely possible that no gravity means that mass does not generate a gravitational force. In that case, the pig would become infinitely dense without collapsing. It would therefore be an immovable object. However, there are still ways of moving it, so the irresistible force still wins.

While yes, we could imagine so, there is just no precedent (that I am aware of). So it stands to reason that the two go hand in hand

[SamaelOfChaos]

So what happens if the pig by some miracle has commoner levels and takes the pig flaw?
Do we suddenly create a kind of Pig-Centipede with a human commoner acting as a cherry on top? :D

[Immabozo]

So what happens if the pig by some miracle has commoner levels and takes the pig flaw?
Do we suddenly create a kind of Pig-Centipede with a human commoner acting as a cherry on top? :D

To take commoner levels, unless I am mistaken, the pig must be awakened, and may disqualify it as being the subject pig of the flaw

[toapat]

That, and i dont think anyone really wants to bother with getting the Soon to be a Sphere of Annihilation class levels, because its not particularly useful

[Gildedragon]

That, and i dont think anyone really wants to bother with getting the Soon to be a Sphere of Annihilation class levels, because its not particularly useful

-shock- So THAT's how one makes one of those!

[toapat]

i guess my question is, what happens to Porcus if the Pig has already collapsed into a blackhole/Sphere of Annihilation and you evacuate the commoner from the square via contingent teleport?

Do you delete Orcus from the multiverse, halve his power? or does he just transform from the pig?

[Immabozo]

i guess my question is, what happens to Porcus if the Pig has already collapsed into a blackhole/Sphere of Annihilation and you evacuate the commoner from the square via contingent teleport?

Do you delete Orcus from the multiverse, halve his power? or does he just transform from the pig?

hmmmm, what came first? Porcus or the black hole?

[toapat]

hmmmm, what came first? Porcus or the black hole?

neither, the contingency was tied to the Commoner's Str score breaking the threshhold for the pig collapsing into a blackhole.

[Gildedragon]

i guess my question is, what happens to Porcus if the Pig has already collapsed into a blackhole/Sphere of Annihilation and you evacuate the commoner from the square via contingent teleport?

Do you delete Orcus from the multiverse, halve his power? or does he just transform from the pig?

Well, the sphere of anihilation IS the pig. Porcus's appearance means the pig's mass dropped precipitously. There probably is a very big release of energy (I think, physics is not my forte) as objects are no longer falling towards the Pig fly outwards at relativistic speeds. Probably Porcus has to resurrect the commoner as the ensuing blast has atomized him.
Safer to just shove the commoner into the sphere. For the good of the multiverse.

[Immabozo]

neither, the contingency was tied to the Commoner's Str score breaking the threshhold for the pig collapsing into a blackhole.

So they all happen at once. But since Porcus is a result of the commoner being more than 5 feet away, he becomes Black Horus

[Yorrin]

This is one of the best threads that has come out on this board in a long time. I heartily approve.

Here's another fun idea: commoner gets levels in Fiend of Possession and rides around in the pig. Since FoP specifically allows you to use SLAs when possessing a creature take some levels of Warlock as well.

[malonkey1]

This is one of the best threads that has come out on this board in a long time. I heartily approve.

Here's another fun idea: commoner gets levels in Fiend of Possession and rides around in the pig. Since FoP specifically allows you to use SLAs when possessing a creature take some levels of Warlock as well.

I like that. Then you can have Strength as your dump stat and just pump the pig's strength up, focusing yourself on Charisma and Intelligence. I think we found a complete, rules-legal way to make the pig-bound flaw into an advantage.

[Necroticplague]

Except you have to first be ethereal to posses somebody. Since the ethereal is a whole plane away from where the pig is, than for that moment, you fail to meet the conditions. So it turns into porcus, and reaches through the ethereal to skin you.

[malonkey1]

Except you have to first be ethereal to posses somebody. Since the ethereal is a whole plane away from where the pig is, than for that moment, you fail to meet the conditions. So it turns into porcus, and reaches through the ethereal to skin you.

Except that the Ethereal Plane is coexistant with the Material Plane:


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm]Coexistent Planes
If a link between two planes can be created at any point, the two planes are coexistent. These planes overlap each other completely. A coexistent plane can be reached from anywhere on the plane it overlaps. When moving on a coexistent plane, it is often possible to see into or interact with the plane it coexists with.

[Vedhin]

This is one of the best threads that has come out on this board in a long time. I heartily approve.

Here's another fun idea: commoner gets levels in Fiend of Possession and rides around in the pig. Since FoP specifically allows you to use SLAs when possessing a creature take some levels of Warlock as well.

I like it. If only there was some way to turn it into Porcus while you were already inside it.

I know, a Fiend of Possession possesses a different Commoners pig, and flies/swims/climbs/burrows away!

[Immabozo]

This is one of the best threads that has come out on this board in a long time. I heartily approve.

Here's another fun idea: commoner gets levels in Fiend of Possession and rides around in the pig. Since FoP specifically allows you to use SLAs when possessing a creature take some levels of Warlock as well.

I agree, and it is my honor to have started it!

This is rather a funny idea. I'll have to read up on FoP when I have time, but I am picking up what you are putting down, I am smelling what you are stepping in, and I like it.

[toapat]

Well, the sphere of anihilation IS the pig. Porcus's appearance means the pig's mass dropped precipitously. There probably is a very big release of energy (I think, physics is not my forte) as objects are no longer falling towards the Pig fly outwards at relativistic speeds. Probably Porcus has to resurrect the commoner as the ensuing blast has atomized him.
Safer to just shove the commoner into the sphere. For the good of the multiverse.

assuming that the sphere instantly transforms into orcus, the gravitic waves would liquefy his mass into meatsludge, then collapse it into plasma, which then detonates.

[Yorrin]

To further flesh out the build, I'll use a Neraph who has the Savage Species ritual to give him the Evil subtype. At level one he takes Martial Study in a Shadow Hand maneuver to get Hide as a permanent class skill. He then goes

Commoner 1/Warlock 6/Fiend of Possession 6

Choosing Spiderwalk as one of his least invocations to become Spider Pig, and using his 3d6 Eldritch Blast as his primary offense. Warlock 6 gets a lesser invocation, so Fell Flight is a possibility, or even Walk Unseen. To play in an actual party he'll want to be able to communicate, so I'm thinking telepathy. That's doable with two feats: Shape Soulmeld- Shedu Crown and Open Least Chakra- Crown. Might as well toss in mindsight as well. So in terms of feats:

1- Martial Study: Shadow Blade Technique
3- Shape Soulmeld: Shedu Crown
6- Open Least Chakra: Crown
9- Mindsight
12+ - ???

For example. I think that's pretty playable from that point onwards. To get there a bit earlier change it to

Commoner 1/Warlock 2/Binder 1/Fiend of Possesion 6

or something along those lines with a good Will save. The sames feats still work for that version. And I actually just realized that I didn't include the feat for the flaw itself, but I'm sure we can figure out something useful for that (Open Least Chakra has a prereq of level 6, so we can really speed up that feat chain too much).

[Vedhin]

And I actually just realized that I didn't include the feat for the flaw itself, but I'm sure we can figure out something useful for that (Open Least Chakra has a prereq of level 6, so we can really speed up that feat chain too much).

DotU has a feat that lets you Hide in Plain Sight as a swift action by expending a use of a darkness SLA. The Warlock has an invocation which counts.

[Yorrin]

DotU has a feat that lets you Hide in Plain Sight as a swift action by expending a use of a darkness SLA. The Warlock has an invocation which counts.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about the Drow Darkness feats. Even better than that one, imho, is the one that turn a Darkness SLA into a Greater Darkness SLA. That also tells us what the other two Invocations he'd pick are- Darkness and Devil's Sight. He is now capable of producing massive long-duration areas of magical darkness, hiding in them, and firing his lazer out from them. Much fun. This has transcended Spider Pig. This has gone straight to something like Venom-Pig.

[Immabozo]

I love this build. I will have to show it to my friends, haha

[emilin_rose]

... why can't i find any more information about this particular issue of the magazine? You'd think there's be at least a brief synopsis online somewhere.

[Immabozo]

... why can't i find any more information about this particular issue of the magazine? You'd think there's be at least a brief synopsis online somewhere.

Be careful about "thread necromancy". Which is commenting on and thus bringing an old (older than 6 weeks, I think?) thread "back from the dead". You can always message a board mod for permission. In your post, you should cite that you have it, if you have it.

But to answer your question, it is. A PDF version of the single page with the flaws is here (http://tsuyoshikentsu.pbworks.com/f/Flaws%20For%20Commoners%20DR330.pdf) and it can be (probably) illegally downloaded, my google fu brought it up, but I dare not link it.

[emilin_rose]

Thank you. I forgot to check the date. I was wandering in the 1000 ways to mess with your dm/players and it interested me.

[Immabozo]

Thank you. I forgot to check the date. I was wandering in the 1000 ways to mess with your dm/players and it interested me.

You're welcome and thank you for you interest