Scrying and secret identities.

[CardCaptor]

An interesting situation came up in our game last session, and it's a good thing the session was coming to an end because we honestly didn't know how to handle it. Let's say this Wizard knows who Bruce Wayne is personally, but that Wizard is also interested in knowing more about Batman. As a result, he one day decides to try scrying on Batman. Since he knows Bruce Wayne personally, but does not know that Bruce Wayne is Batman, would Bruce Wayne/Batman get a penalty on his will save against scrying, or are they considered different entities for the purpose of scrying?

[OrlockDelesian]

I actually had the same question asked in one of my sessions.
Since the rules did not cover it I ruled that since "Batman" is not the persons REAL personality the spell would fail.

[Jack_Simth]

An interesting situation came up in our game last session, and it's a good thing the session was coming to an end because we honestly didn't know how to handle it. Let's say this Wizard knows who Bruce Wayne is personally, but that Wizard is also interested in knowing more about Batman. As a result, he one day decides to try scrying on Batman. Since he knows Bruce Wayne personally, but does not know that Bruce Wayne is Batman, would Bruce Wayne/Batman get a penalty on his will save against scrying, or are they considered different entities for the purpose of scrying?
As noted, it's not really a case that the books spell out.

I'd be inclined to treat Batman as separate from Bruce Wayne up until the point where the scryer starts to suspect. So if the scryer has heard of Batman (Secondhand, +5 to the save), and works with Bruce for a few hours most days doing various business things ("very familiar", -5 to the save), then attempting to scry on Batman means that old Bruce gets a +5 to his save. Of course, if the save fails, and Batman isn't in his costume, well... the scryer now knows, and Bruce thereafter gets the -5 penalty. If Bruce is in costume at the time, however, then the Scryer doesn't know, and the save bonus only drops to +0 (as the scryer has effectively met Batman at that point).

But that's just how I'd be inclined to treat it. Other people will come to different conclusions.

[Perturbulent]

I would give any person whose identity varies from the expected identity a +5-+10 on the will save.

[Alex12]

I actually had the same question asked in one of my sessions.
Since the rules did not cover it I ruled that since "Batman" is not the persons REAL personality the spell would fail.

Well, using that specific example, most incarnations of Batman that I'm familiar with have him consider "Batman" to be his real identity, and "Bruce Wayne" the cover identity.
Personally, I'd have no penalty to the save, due to the fact that the mage doesn't know about the connection.

[Prime32]

This is assuming that most nobles/rich people in the setting don't have anti-divination devices on them at all times. I mean, how do you conduct a business deal when the other guy might be able to read your thoughts/alignment? Or that Batman doesn't have some PrC with an ability that renders his identities separate.

[TuggyNE]

Honestly, I'm not sure, but I'd err on the side of keeping them separate.


I actually had the same question asked in one of my sessions.
Since the rules did not cover it I ruled that since "Batman" is not the persons REAL personality the spell would fail.

That seems a little excessive, since that leaves complete scrying immunity only a series of routine Disguise checks away. Not particularly good.

[JeminiZero]

I actually had the same question asked in one of my sessions.
Since the rules did not cover it I ruled that since "Batman" is not the persons REAL personality the spell would fail.
Arguably, the reverse is true. Batman is the real personality, Bruce is the mask (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbNa9XPNTa0).:smalltongue:

[CardCaptor]

This is assuming that most nobles/rich people in the setting don't have anti-divination devices on them at all times. I mean, how do you conduct a business deal when the other guy might be able to read your thoughts/alignment? Or that Batman doesn't have some PrC with an ability that renders his identities separate.

I was simply using Batman as a reference since it was a simple example that everyone would know, wealth aside. :P

[Vertharrad]

IMHO this is what would happen. You cast scry to find batman. If Bruce Wayne is being Bruce at the time there is no batman spell fails. If Bruce is being batman at the time Bruce has to make a will save and we go from there. The spell is looking for batman...not Bruce Wayne. The fact they're the same person doesn't matter. Spells don't deal in logic they just follow orders.

[Sliver]

You cast scry to find batman. If Bruce Wayne is being Bruce at the time there is no batman spell fails.

There always is Batman. Bruce Wayne doesn't turn off his skills when he isn't wearing the cape. He is always prepared.

I like Jack_Simth's answer: If you scry on Batman, you only get the benefits/penalties from your knowledge of Batman. If you know that Batman is Bruce Wayne, then you get the benefits of your knowledge of Bruce (In the time between this and me last saying Bruce Wayne we became friends, so it's okay if I omit his last name). If you only suspect? They are still separate, because you don't know.

If you have positive intelligence and you frequently hang around Bruce Wayne: You are likely to suspect something...

[jedipotter]

So Dron Borkson, dresses up as masked The Red Lord. The wizard meets the Red Lord several times and knows him well. So if the wizard scrys on the Red Lord, when he is just Dron........does he get Dron or get a ''not found''.

Same way, if Dron puts on a mask and then a wizard scrys for him....they will see him in the mask right?