Bringing someone back to life against their will

[Jeff the Green]

Is it possible to force someone to resurrect? I can think of a lot of cases where this could be useful, but in particular I'm interested in the idea of eliminating an archdevil this way.

[Crake]

Raise them as an intelligent corporeal undead, control them with a rebuke, tell them to be willing, then cast resurrection on them. That will turn them from undead back to a living creature.

This only works on creatures that can be turned into undead obviously. Outsiders typically dematerialize in some way when you kill them, as they return to their plane.

Also, how do you imagine bringing a creature back from the dead forcefully would help in eliminating an archdevil?

[OldTrees1]

So you plan to remove an archdevil by undoing the promotions they received and undoing the shivering? All by forcing them to return via a True Resurrection spell (or something similar)?

For the spell to even work on a willing archdevil you would need a caster level measured in at least 3 digits. Since the spell only reaches so far back and it takes a long time for souls to climb the hellish tiers.

Then you have to either find a spell that did not require a willing soul, or convince the archdevil to be willing. I know of only one way to do the first. If you have the body AND the archdevil's former body counts as a "dead ally" AND you had a caster level = death duration / 1 minute, THEN you could cast Revenance + Revivify. Although the NI caster level required makes this impractical.

[Sith_Happens]

The Gift of Life (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#giftOfLife) SDA is the only effect in the game that can raise an unwilling target, and even then only with the permission of whichever deity has authority over their soul. So unless you can become and/or sway at least one god, you're out of luck.

[OldTrees1]

The Gift of Life (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#giftOfLife) SDA is the only effect in the game that can raise an unwilling target

Raise Dead and the 2 derived spells (Ressurection and True Ressurection) specifically require the soul be willing to return. I did not find any such clause in Revenance or Revivify.

[BWR]

Bt RAW, none of the Raising spells can work on unwilling targets. You might be able to convince your DM to allow a Wish or Miracle to do so, especially if you spend an extra Wish or Miracle especially to allow a True Resurrection to work on an unwilling target.

Not particularly useful for your game, but the PC of a player of mine has an Ancestral Relic (BoED feat) that has a Trap the Soul effect on it. Any time his character dies, her soul is trapped in the relic rather than passing on. This has the effect that the relic is required to raise her at all, and also that she can be forced back to life against her will. Her grand-uncle has a long-term breeding experiment going on and she's the latest edition, and it's very nice to be able to do in-depth vivisections and autopsies on her without the problem of a living soul getting in the way.

[Sith_Happens]

Raise Dead and the 2 derived spells (Ressurection and True Ressurection) specifically require the soul be willing to return. I did not find any such clause in Revenance or Revivify.

No specific spell needs to say so, because the "Special Spell Effects" section on PHB pg. 171 already does.

[Raezeman]

PH page 171 says that when magic is used the revive someone, that person's soul automatically knows the name, alignment and patron deity (if any) of the one attempting to do the reviving and can plainly chose not to be revived.
So you can't bring someone back against their will, but depending on the circumstances, there might be a way around this. You can try to trick the soul by capturing someone the soul would be ok to be revived by and force that person to do it, or similar. Ofcourse, if the soul doesn't want to be brought back by anybody, then i don't think it's possible.
Unless ofcourse there are very specific spells/ways designed for this, but the standard raise dead and better spells are not up for it.

[Jeff the Green]

So you plan to remove an archdevil by undoing the promotions they received and undoing the shivering? All by forcing them to return via a True Resurrection spell (or something similar)?

For the spell to even work on a willing archdevil you would need a caster level measured in at least 3 digits. Since the spell only reaches so far back and it takes a long time for souls to climb the hellish tiers.

Then you have to either find a spell that did not require a willing soul, or convince the archdevil to be willing. I know of only one way to do the first. If you have the body AND the archdevil's former body counts as a "dead ally" AND you had a caster level = death duration / 1 minute, THEN you could cast Revenance + Revivify. Although the NI caster level required makes this impractical.

NI caster level isn't out of the question, though. Assume 10,000 years. So 5,256,000,000 CL. Off the top of my head, grow ~50 Petri dishes of bacteria. Cast consumptive field. Douse one of the Petri dishes with alcohol. Repeat until none are left and your CL is on the order of 1010.

[Vaz]

Consumptive Field caps at +1/2 Maximum. There are easier ways to boost Caster Level. Anyway to get Cha to CL?

[Jeff the Green]

Consumptive Field caps at +1/2 Maximum. There are easier ways to boost Caster Level. Anyway to get Cha to CL?

That's why you have to repeat the process 50 times. By my reading it's capped by your CL when you cast it, not your unmodified CL.

Anyway, I don't think it's work because I have a hard time imagining a DM allowing you to categorize someone you're trying to strip of their rank and powers as an ally, and the general rule that you can't bring someone back to life against their will probably still applies.

(This isn't for anything in particular. I'm just curious as to whether it's possible.)

[molten_dragon]

Raise Dead and the 2 derived spells (Ressurection and True Ressurection) specifically require the soul be willing to return. I did not find any such clause in Revenance or Revivify.

Both Revenance and Revivify specify "This spell works like raise dead", and neither includes an exception to the rule requiring the soul to be willing.

[Vaz]

Ah, I see how you're stacking the Spell Effects. Fair play, nicely done.

If its an identical strength, then the most powerful one takes precendence, but each casting keys off the other for the higher max limit. Clever!

[OldTrees1]

No specific spell needs to say so, because the "Special Spell Effects" section on PHB pg. 171 already does.


Both Revenance and Revivify specify "This spell works like raise dead", and neither includes an exception to the rule requiring the soul to be willing.

Thank you for the corrections.
It looks like it is impossible to bring someone back against their will unless you are a god. (Prohibited both by specific and general rules)

[Vaz]

How would you get someone to be willing? How much information does the soul have access to to decide whether they want to be called back?

For example, Johnty, a cleric of Heironeous is killed and his body has been found by a Christy, a level 15 LE Cleric of Hextor wants to use Raise Dead on Johnty to allow the two of them together to fulfil a prophecy that would enable them to defeat the even greater evil from beyond the planes from destroying the worldtm.

I suppose something like Plane Shift to the plane, then Lesser Planar Binding for a Petitioner would get him to talk to to you, any other ways that aren't so likely to annoy the soul of the dead person you're trying to resurrect (although you could diplomance it to become friendly (Mind Affecting won't work, so no Fanatical, sorry!). Planar Commitment would prevent Lesser Planar Binding/Gate not work.

Anything else?

[Spuddles]

Raise them as an intelligent corporeal undead, control them with a rebuke, tell them to be willing, then cast resurrection on them. That will turn them from undead back to a living creature.

This only works on creatures that can be turned into undead obviously. Outsiders typically dematerialize in some way when you kill them, as they return to their plane.

Also, how do you imagine bringing a creature back from the dead forcefully would help in eliminating an archdevil?

Alternatively, raise them as a skeleton or zombie with Animate Dead and use Awaken Undead on them. Of course, this limits you to stuff like horses and gnomes.

[Yogibear41]

In 1st edition a person could not choose to not be raised, if the spell was cast and the spellcaster was powerful enough to do it then there was no oh sorry I don't want to come back clause, your soul got ripped from whatever paradise or eternity you were in and stuck back in your body, to bad so sad. Thus, even death was not a safe haven from powerful spell casters who wanted you to suffer.

I assume that in your game the particular arch-devil was once a person, who died, went to hell, and slowly over time rose to his position on hell's ladder. In such a case it seems infeasible for a mortal to have the kind of power to be able to reverse something that has probably taken millennia to achieve. A god could probably do it, but a mortal, I don't think so. (granted in 3.5 people talk about killing gods all the time, it shouldn't really be possible IMO because what can a 20th level player do that a 40th level god cannot do better.)

Not to mention that the process of becoming a devil in the first place is essentially twisting their soul into something else anyway, they aren't really the same person anymore, you would most likely have to revert the arch-devil into his previous "human soul-form" before simply raising him anyway.

[Psyren]

Raise them as an intelligent corporeal undead, control them with a rebuke, tell them to be willing, then cast resurrection on them. That will turn them from undead back to a living creature.

This won't work; you have to destroy the undead first, in which case your control won't apply to them anymore and they can once again choose not to come back.

[Frostthehero]

my preffered method is to trick them into coming back to life. use someone they trusted in the past life, in order to make them think that they are coming back where they want to be. if they are simply unwilling in general, and you need all of their class features, then you may need a diety. otherwise, you are out of luck.

[Clistenes]

Raise them as an intelligent corporeal undead, control them with a rebuke, tell them to be willing, then cast resurrection on them. That will turn them from undead back to a living creature.

This only works on creatures that can be turned into undead obviously. Outsiders typically dematerialize in some way when you kill them, as they return to their plane.

Also, how do you imagine bringing a creature back from the dead forcefully would help in eliminating an archdevil?

I don't think Undead are valid targets for any of the Resurrection spells, unless you kill the undead first and cast the spells on the inanimate remains.

[Yogibear41]

NI caster level isn't out of the question, though. Assume 10,000 years. So 5,256,000,000 CL. Off the top of my head, grow ~50 Petri dishes of bacteria. Cast consumptive field. Douse one of the Petri dishes with alcohol. Repeat until none are left and your CL is on the order of 1010.


How does your character grow Petri dishes, let alone know of the existence of bacteria and that alcohol will kill them?

[Jeff the Green]

How does your character grow Petri dishes, let alone know of the existence of bacteria and that alcohol will kill them?

Petri dishes are easy (actually, a liquid medium like broth might be easier) and a Knowledge (nature) check should do for bacteria. Obviously setting dependent, but even if bacteria don't exist, brewers yeast almost certainly does.


Actually, a Clone spell could do it. Grow a Clone of the person you want to bring back using Eschew Materials to ignore the non-expensive material component (ie, the flesh). Recreate the mortal body of the person you want to ruin when they're, say, an infant, so they're powerless to stop you from doing whatever you want to them.

Alternately, Wish for a suitable, fresh chunk of flesh from the body of the creature you want to Clone (at the timeframe you want to Clone them from), then cast Clone normally.

Doesn't work. clone specifically requires that the soul be free and willing to return.

[Rubik]

Doesn't work. clone specifically requires that the soul be free and willing to return.Yeah, I just noticed.

[The Random NPC]

Raise them as an intelligent corporeal undead, control them with a rebuke, tell them to be willing, then cast resurrection on them. That will turn them from undead back to a living creature.

This only works on creatures that can be turned into undead obviously. Outsiders typically dematerialize in some way when you kill them, as they return to their plane.

Also, how do you imagine bringing a creature back from the dead forcefully would help in eliminating an archdevil?


This won't work; you have to destroy the undead first, in which case your control won't apply to them anymore and they can once again choose not to come back.


I don't think Undead are valid targets for any of the Resurrection spells, unless you kill the undead first and cast the spells on the inanimate remains.

Not only that, raising undead doesn't have anything to do with souls, except requiring them to vacate their current vessel.
EDIT: That is to say, even if this did work, the soul (being already in the afterlife) is no more or less willing to come back. What you have done is made some Negative energy willing to come back to life.

[XmonkTad]

Ok. What about casting Resurrection from a scroll, and using UMD to emulate someone the person would be willing to be raised by? A DC 30 bardic knowledge check give you information about their childhood nicknames, a 35 could probably get you the answer to this question.

[ShurikVch]

1. Get the soul via Soul Shackles (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-vile-darkness--37/soul-shackles--219/)
2. Persuade it to come back to life. (Glibness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glibness.htm) may help)
3. Resurrection!

[Rubik]

Archdevils and demon lords are notorious for backstabbing amongst themselves and wanting to see all of the others (on both sides of the alignment divide) humiliated and destroyed, so call in Pazuzu (probably THE most biddable of all the god-tier fiends) and offer to help him in destroying this thing. Since he's offering Wishes, he's the one who will be granting them, so Wish for this archdevil to be resurrected in his original, mortal form (before he gained any real power).

He should be willing to help. You may suffer a change in alignment by one step, but at least Pazuzu won't corrupt your Wish.

[Spuddles]

How does your character grow Petri dishes, let alone know of the existence of bacteria and that alcohol will kill them?

bacteria probably arent even classified as alive. isnt rot and decay a product of negative energy, not mircoorganisms, anyway?


Ok. What about casting Resurrection from a scroll, and using UMD to emulate someone the person would be willing to be raised by? A DC 30 bardic knowledge check give you information about their childhood nicknames, a 35 could probably get you the answer to this question.

Tippy´s method:

Shapechange into a Zodar.
Su Wish for a CL 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000 scroll of whatever it is you need.
Shapechange into a Lilitu
Use her UMD ability to cast the spell
Profit

Remember that you can Wish for magic items with Wish that supercede the 25000gp price, but you have to pay xp. Su Wish ignores xp cost. Cool, no? Though you could say that the Wish xp clause supercedes the general Su xp costless clause.

[Zanos]

Petri dishes are easy (actually, a liquid medium like broth might be easier) and a Knowledge (nature) check should do for bacteria. Obviously setting dependent, but even if bacteria don't exist, brewers yeast almost certainly does.



Doesn't work. clone specifically requires that the soul be free and willing to return.
Consumptive field doesn't allow you to boost your caster level infinitely. It doesn't stack with itself. If your CL is 20, the first time you cap it out your CL will be 30(20/2=+10). Then you cast consumptive field again with a CL 30, allowing you to cap out at 35(30/2 = +15). Then you cast consumptive field at CL 35 and cap out at 37(35/2 +17). The most you can do with consumptive field is double you caster level if you keep recasting it.

[Vaz]

ShurickVcH, thanks for that spell, that's good to know of.

[Silva Stormrage]

You can make a target THINK they want to come back willingly.

Raise them as a corporeal undead and cast mind rape or some other memory modification spell or enchantment (fueled by that one metamagic feat in dragon compendium that lets mind affecting spells affect undead) and make them think they want to be resurrected. Then resurrect them after destroying the undead.

[The Random NPC]

You can make a target THINK they want to come back willingly.

Raise them as a corporeal undead and cast mind rape or some other memory modification spell or enchantment (fueled by that one metamagic feat in dragon compendium that lets mind affecting spells affect undead) and make them think they want to be resurrected. Then resurrect them after destroying the undead.

Still doesn't work, when you Mind Rape the undead, you are Mind Raping a bit of Negative energy that thinks it's whoever's body it's in. Then when you resurrect them, they can still say no, as you would have never cast Mind Rape on the soul. Now you could Mind Rape the soul, but that involves planar travel.
EDIT: Turns out you can't Mind Rape souls.

[Vaz]

That's where Soul Shackles comes in.

Something I've just realised about Plane Shift+Lesser Planar Binding is that LPB is calling and that requires them to be on a different plane, and petitioners cannot leave their plane for anything (they teleport onto the same plane instead). You'd have to physically track down that spirit; so Plane Shift (ECL9-13), then Scrying (ECL7-9), then Greater Teleport (ECL13) is the way to go. You'd then need to convince them to return by non-magical means (Immunity to Mind Affecting, and short of Epic bluffing to get them to lower than immunity), and get back yourself, so Diplomacy will work.

Song of the dead will not in this instance; that (obviously) only affects undead.

[atemu1234]

I personally ran a campaign setting with a similar concept. Essentially you didn't have a choice when you were resurrected, and fully remembered paradise or hell- making for very interesting interactions when a hero who'd gotten an eternal reward is suddenly waking up six feet under in considerable agony. All in all, it was a very dark campaign world.

[Silva Stormrage]

Still doesn't work, when you Mind Rape the undead, you are Mind Raping a bit of Negative energy that thinks it's whoever's body it's in. Then when you resurrect them, they can still say no, as you would have never cast Mind Rape on the soul. Now you could Mind Rape the soul, but that involves planar travel.
EDIT: Turns out you can't Mind Rape souls.

Thats not how all undead work… Only certain undead that are specified to trap the soul of their user do that, OOTS is not RAW for how vampires work. Liches, Bone Creatures and Corpse creatures are the souls of the original creature.

[Jack_Simth]

You can. There's a trick.

First, you raise them as an undead (any undead will do). Second, you cast Resurrection on the still-active undead, directly. Job done.

Why?

Well, the undead type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType) has a clause in it:
Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.

Just like with flesh golems and electricity damage, specific overrides general. Resurrection normally has a specific effect, and that effect requires the soul to be willing to return. However, when applied directly to an undead, the specific clause in the undead type means a different effect happens instead - and that different effect doesn't care about duration, willingness, or anything else.

[Agincourt]

You can. There's a trick.

First, you raise them as an undead (any undead will do). Second, you cast Resurrection on the still-active undead, directly. Job done.

Why?

Well, the undead type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType) has a clause in it:


Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
Just like with flesh golems and electricity damage, specific overrides general. Resurrection normally has a specific effect, and that effect requires the soul to be willing to return. However, when applied directly to an undead, the specific clause in the undead type means a different effect happens instead - and that different effect doesn't care about duration, willingness, or anything else.

You don't have a rule here about willingness. There's no specific overriding anything. You have an omission of a rule. The bit of SRD you quoted makes no mention of willingness either way. That bit says that while Raise Dead and Reincarnate cannot work on undead, Resurrection and True Resurrection can. Notice, the operative word is "can" not "must" or "will."

[Augmental]

Is it possible to Plane Shift to whatever plane the soul went to, kidnap the dead person, and Plane Shift back?

[The Random NPC]

Thats not how all undead work… Only certain undead that are specified to trap the soul of their user do that, OOTS is not RAW for how vampires work. Liches, Bone Creatures and Corpse creatures are the souls of the original creature.

While I'm aware that some undead trap the soul of the deceased, of the three you mentioned, only the Lich does so. Generally, undead are animated by Negative energy and the soul has already departed to its final resting place. Furthermore, the Lich traps his soul in some kind of magic box, and likely has a lot of protections on it, so good luck Mind Raping it.

[Vaz]

Is it possible to Plane Shift to whatever plane the soul went to, kidnap the dead person, and Plane Shift back?

Petitioners cannot leave their home plane for any reason (with a couple of exceptionso), or else you could simply Planar Bind/Gate them, then diplomance them. However, you could Plane Shift, locate, Diplomance (into friendly), bluff them into coming back alive, or simply threatening them (or their loved ones etc) with eternal torture, (because you're ECL13, and they have 2HD, and it's easily within your power) if they do not agree to come back to life.

[ericgrau]

Resurrection only tells the spirit the caster's alignment and deity, so force or bribe an evil cleric to do it.

EDIT: Or so I thought. But I can't seem to find that rule anymore...

[Jack_Simth]

You don't have a rule here about willingness. There's no specific overriding anything. You have an omission of a rule. The bit of SRD you quoted makes no mention of willingness either way. That bit says that while Raise Dead and Reincarnate cannot work on undead, Resurrection and True Resurrection can. Notice, the operative word is "can" not "must" or "will."
Resurrection and it's big brother inherit range and target from the base spell Raise Dead. Target is "Dead Creature Touched". An active undead doesn't qualify. Without the type clause, the undead cannot be affected at all (without first destroying it, anyway, which turns it back into a dead creature). The listed details of the spells Resurrection and True Resurrection have nothing to do with the actual effect once you apply them to an undead, just like the details of the Earthquake spell used on a Clay Golem.

[TuggyNE]

Resurrection and it's big brother inherit range and target from the base spell Raise Dead. Target is "Dead Creature Touched". An active undead doesn't qualify.

Why doesn't it? An undead reduced to 0 HP does not gain the dead condition, but becomes destroyed. Spells like animate dead apply templates to dead creatures, but never state they remove the dead condition.

[nyjastul69]

Why doesn't it? An undead reduced to 0 HP does not gain the dead condition, but becomes destroyed. Spells like animate dead apply templates to dead creatures, but never state they remove the dead condition.

The unfortunate bit is that there is no dead condition. Conditions are clearly defined. What dead means is left to the dictionary, the DM and/or common sense.

[Jack_Simth]

Why doesn't it? An undead reduced to 0 HP does not gain the dead condition, but becomes destroyed. Spells like animate dead apply templates to dead creatures, but never state they remove the dead condition.Ah, but it does! The creature is no longer at -10 HP (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#dead10HitPointsorLower).

[Yomega]

A couple thoughts first is the most fun: Make a deal with Asmodius for the rights over its soul XD, but outside of divine intervention? I would try to kill it in some way that traps the soul while it was alive or after it comes around again for revenge or whatever.

And finaly I belive this would be within the power of a high level truenamer but aquiring its truename and the truename related to resurection is a bit of a stretch , but if your dm is trying to have this happen it is posible for these things to present themselfs.

But if the dm does not this to happen there is no spell or obscure rule/loop hole you can use to revive the unwilling.

[Suzuha]

Wow, I've actually given this thought too as part of a plot for a game. Long story short, a person in a party a long time ago sacrificed himself and people in the present age needed it to happen again.

I decided to set up a homebrew bypass of the gods and use a time ritual type deal. No real mechanics save for it requiring the sacrifice of someone with a control of time (such as a Time Thief or Time Warden- of which at least one would be in the party). It would normally sacrifice years of the person's life to turn the clock back on a dead body, forcing the soul back in as they return to a point where they were alive, but the plan was to age the sacrifice in this instance into dust due to the length of time.

That person would then become incapable of being resurrected save Divine Intervention (I also use my own homebrew gods, making that unlikely). Obviously, I was going to keep the 'sacrifice' part in the dark until late in the game to see if they would really try to go through with it.

So, I have nothing at all that would actually help here. I just wanted to share because it's so similar.

[Seer_of_Heart]

Consumptive field doesn't allow you to boost your caster level infinitely. It doesn't stack with itself. If your CL is 20, the first time you cap it out your CL will be 30(20/2=+10). Then you cast consumptive field again with a CL 30, allowing you to cap out at 35(30/2 = +15). Then you cast consumptive field at CL 35 and cap out at 37(35/2 +17). The most you can do with consumptive field is double you caster level if you keep recasting it.
Combine with greater consumptive field and reserves of strength'd suffer the flesh. Alternatively you could just use the dragon 325 theurgy feats and 3 casting classes lets your CL rise to NI if the spreadsheets I was playing around with before are correct.

[atemu1234]

I homebrewed stuff for this. Thing is, the game is clear: What wants to stay where it is, stays where it is. Otherwise, shove off.

So I came up with monsters that traffic in souls, powerful enough to break beings out of wherever they are and force them to go back to being living, breathing things. It got pretty dark and terrifying when I included the system for it going wrong from (was it Libris Mortis or Heroes of Horror?) and the sanity system from CoCD20. When the team paladin went insane from being brought back and became a blackguard that we spent eight campaigns trying to hunt down and put out of its misery, it became clear the system had broken down, so we started a new campaign. The monsters still exist, but I've made it so that it's more RP based than actual hardcore mechanics based.

[Rubik]

Well, you could always find a rare treasure that the archdevil would love to have, craft a Trap the Soul gem into it, and send it to the fiend as a care package. Then use its soul as a spell component.

[lunar2]

very simple, actually. find archfiend you want to resurrect. cast dominate monster. order archfiend to be willing to be raised. cast true resurrection with sufficiently enhanced caster level. congratulations, you now have a newly raised human (possibly) soul.

[Coidzor]

I suppose there's always traveling back in time to when they first died, somehow finding out who they were and all that other fun stuff, and then doing some shenanigans there and thus bypassing most of the unwillingness to return and CL requirements, but that's liable to just split you off into an alternate timeline.

Definitely seems like the sort of thing that demands either clever manipulation of the DM & Narrative Causality in forming a story and hare-brained scheme just plausible and crazy enough to have a one in a million chance(because then it's a sure thing) or the use of some pretty major mojo Epic Magic.

[TuggyNE]

Ah, but it does! The creature is no longer at -10 HP (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#dead10HitPointsorLower).

Not relevant, since the dead condition (yes, it does in fact exist) allows for Con 0 or a [death] effect to cause it as well. And if Con - is not enough to trigger the Con 0 clause I'm not sure what is.

(One could also argue that the only defined way of removing the dead condition is use of resurrection spells; certainly, healing a corpse above -10 or restoring lost Con is of no value. As such, once it's present, it stays until removed, and animate dead et al do not remove it.)