OOTS #949 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[CWater]

Creative use for those frost arrows, nice!

I like Haley's new outfit.:smallsmile:

[AdmiralDan]

First site !

Finally a new comic, but so short. :D

[terryhe]

Is that a new spell for Elan? Does that imply he gained a level during all this recent excitement?

[Drakoun]

Interessting that the little cut didnt't heal too, nice touch :smallbiggrin:
Lovin' the new style a lot!

[Djibril]

Good to see banjo back :D

Dr. Banjo MD FTW!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Yay! More Banjo.

Also, looks like that lightning really was quite damaging. Clever of Haley to put fire out like that.

[nolron]

Doctor Banjo?

That's ridiculous even by Elan standards. I'm glad Haley is able to see it in a positive light.

[ChristianSt]

All hail the one and only true god(/doctor): Banjo!

[RMS Oceanic]

Elan looks good with a white tunic like that. :smallsmile:

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[hamishspence]

I like Haley's new outfit.:smallsmile:

I wonder if it's actually the old pre-desert outfit- just shown in more detail?

[Don Ohnic]

New comic is up.

I hope the frost arrows do not interfere with the Mechane's speed.
I think they will not...

[Dandria]

Oh thanks God it's out: the wait was driving me mad :smallbiggrin:

Also: I like the new font. Like, I actually think it's better than the last one.

[Emperordaniel]

Dreadlocks Dude! :eek:

Please be okay, please be okay... :smallfrown:

[Silferdrake]

Very nice! I guess this means that Elan has leveled up?

[Keltest]

Elan looks good with a white tunic like that. :smallsmile:

Yeah, cloth and leather get handled by the new style a lot better than, say, Durkon's full plate, which apparently only covers his torso.

[Kish]

I hope the frost arrows do not interfere with the Mechane's speed.
I think they will not...
I'm pretty sure the Mechane is going to be making a forced landing shortly.

The High Priest of Hel wouldn't want to miss dwarven lands, after all.

[PsyBomb]

Love the little details. Being able to see Elan's instrument is a nice touch, as is the destinction between Haley's armor and undershirt. Only one left is V, now

[Jay R]

Liked using the arrows to put out the fire.

Dr. Banjo?

[Matticus]

That's a vest Elan's wearing, not a jacket!?

[raymundo]

The new art keeps amazing me. Elan and Haley look awesome

[With a box]

I wonder how Elan know about doctor.

[Uniqueorn]

Wow. First I thought that Banjo was a sonic screwdriver....

[Turgon9357]

Continuing to dig the detail.

[factotum]

Very nice! I guess this means that Elan has leveled up?

No--we already saw him use Song of Freedom a while back, and he needs 12 bard levels to do that; he only needs 11 to cast a 4th-level bard spell like Cure Critical Wounds.

[Sakgeres]

Now Haley's outfit make her look fat :smalltongue:

[Pory]

<nitpick>Haley has invisible hands on panel 6 :smallwink:</nitpick>

[Shale]

Seems like Haley started wearing an undershirt along with her desert outfit now that they're out of the heat? So much detail to overthink.

[bue52]

How much damage would the scalpel be? I'm surprised the scalpel wound didn't close up with the scalpel in it.

[The Giant]

<nitpick>Haley has invisible hands on panel 6 :smallwink:</nitpick>

Fixed now. Though I probably introduced some other weird transparency effect in the process.

[Ivrytwr]

Dr. Banjo looks great.
Elan playing second lute to his own hand puppet, awesome.
Starting to enjoy the new styles.
Thanks Giant
... everyone has sleeves!

[Killer Angel]

Banjo Rules! :smallbiggrin:

Tnx, Giant.

[Yendor]

No--we already saw him use Song of Freedom a while back, and he needs 12 bard levels to do that; he only needs 11 to cast a 4th-level bard spell like Cure Critical Wounds.

But he didn't have the spell before; he planned to swap out one of his spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html) for it later.

[2.5 cats]

Love the Star Trek call-back. At least in Star Trek: The Next Generation, those big instrument panels were constantly exploding, so the extent that anyone sitting by an instrument panel really should have been wearing a suit of plate mail.

[TerrickTerran]

the return of Banjo, in these dark times, I feel that the Order will now pull thruogh.

[banjo1985]

Banjo approves of more Banjo. :smallbiggrin:

Weirdly, I always assumed Elan's blue jacket was sleeveless. Haley's undershirt looks a little strange at the moment, clutters up the action poses, like drawing her bow string. To be fair to her though, it is throwing it down with rain, so it's a good job she got sleeves. :smalltongue:

[Doorhandle]

Oh hey, early enough to the comic that I can actually focus on my first response now!

Speaking of that, using banjo as component. Hmmmm.


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/false-focus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/false-focus)

hrrrmmmmm.


By using a divine focus as part of casting, you can cast any spell with a material component costing the value of that divine focus (maximum 100 gp) or less without needing that component.

HMMMMMMM.

[Quild]

I missed Elan!

CCW, wow.

[ratfox]

Quick thinking from Bandana there, she managed to save that man! :smallbiggrin:

[Anarion]

I love the tiny doctor's mask on banjo. :smallbiggrin:

All the characters are looking really good, and seeing that Haley's armor has at least some resemblance to actual leather armor after all is amusing. Also, based on Elan's conversation in comic 647 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html) he appears to have gained another level, presumably along with the rest of the party. They've got to be getting pretty close to level 20 at this point. I wonder if Durkula or V might pull out a 9th level spell sometime during this arc without anyone have to sell their soul.

[HandofShadows]

Nice to see that the action in continuing and how the characters look with the new style. And it's great. :smallcool::smallbiggrin:

[littlebum2002]

Since does Haley wear an undershirt? I thought she was flaunting the goods.

Also, I thought for sure that Elan was wearing short sleeves.

I like the new art style, I'm just not sure I like the outfits that were chosen for the characters. I mean, wasn't Elan supposed to be dressed like Locke? Instead, now he looks like he's wearing a sweater.

[Shale]

They're dressing for a colder climate now. Makes sense to me.

[Yendor]

Weirdly, I always assumed Elan's blue jacket was sleeveless.

That's what I assumed. I think it was based on things like the last panel here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0693.html).

[Dread_Head]

Dreadlock guy, you can pull through, don't give up yet brother.

Also loving the new art upgrades.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Ok, I think this comic won me over on the new upgrades. And I wasn't expecting Élan as a backup healer, though it definitely makes sense and in retrospect I should have seen it coming. Never change, Elan.

[ThatNickGuy]

Waaaaait just a damn minute.

When did Banjo have time to get a PhD? They haven't been adventuring long enough for him to have that kind of time.

Dammit, Burlew. I can't take this complete lack of realism in your comic!

[RMS Oceanic]

Waaaaait just a damn minute.

When did Banjo have time to get a PhD? They haven't been adventuring long enough for him to have that kind of time.

Dammit, Burlew. I can't take this complete lack of realism in your comic!

He did it while they were trapped in Girard's Microcosm spell.

[ThatNickGuy]

He did it while they were trapped in Girard's Microcosm spell.

That's even worse! He earned a fake PhD. That means he's practising without a license. He's no doctor at all!

EDIT: Welp, Rich himself gave me the best answer for my totally serious question:

https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/status/456787104941760512

[Vinsfeld]

All hail Banjo

[Crusher]

The bottomless well of awesome that is Elan gets even more bottomless and awesome as time goes on.

And I dig the cold weather duds the Order is sporting these days. Hopefully the ship's crew have some coats as well.

[Gift Jeraff]

Haley wearing two layers of shirts and Elan having long sleaves are going to take some getting used to.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Woooo! Go go minty fresh damage control! And Banjo, PhD!

[Yuki Akuma]

Oh hey, early enough to the comic that I can actually focus on my first response now!

Speaking of that, using banjo as component. Hmmmm.


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/false-focus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/false-focus)

hrrrmmmmm.



HMMMMMMM.

1. Cure Critical Wounds doesn't have a material component.

2. This isn't Pathfinder.

[Inuzuka]

Noone going to bring up Elan calling himself a Nurse?

And now Banjo is the god of music and healing? As opposed to his brother/rival who is the god of comedy and inflicting pain?

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Doctor banjo!

[Mollez]

Oh, Elan. :smalltongue:

Man, the more I see of the new art style the more I like it. Big thumbs up for the Giant.

[Bulldog Psion]

Actually, it was clearly visible that Elan was wearing a sleeveless vest towards the end of this strip: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html when Elan and Haley start undressing each other.

My question is, if Elan really cast a healing spell, why does Felix appear to still be dying?

[LuisDantas]

The current font is definitely more readable than the one that was being used before the break. I welcome it.

Bandana has a nice personality. I enjoyed her insistence on caring for the crew first and foremost.

Elan has been a secondary healer for a while now. It has not been front and center often, but it has been there.

Haley does look a bit over-clothed. Maybe it is because of the rain.

[AstralFire]

Noone going to bring up Elan calling himself a Nurse?

And now Banjo is the god of music and healing? As opposed to his brother/rival who is the god of comedy and inflicting pain?

Elan is dedicated to being in a support role. Nurses support.

Dude is probably unconscious or disabled from some non-directly-a-hit-points-issue condition, even though Elan healed the HP damage. Not in danger of dying, still in pain/not fully functional.

Been reserving judgment so far to give myself some time to get used to it. My two cents: The art style upgrade is great and much needed, lets you keep your distinctive flair while giving you more room to work with for storytelling. The typeface and lettering choices on the other hand... bit of a sidegrade, neither the original nor the replacement are great for lettering, imo. The current typeface is more pleasing aesthetically, but is a little too... over-emphasized, my eye wants to wander quickly because it gets tired of the letters. Still, not a big thing.

[ORione]

The perspective on the ship looks great, and so does Elan's dweomer.

Wait. Did Dr. Banjo stab Felix with a scalpel?


I wonder if it's actually the old pre-desert outfit- just shown in more detail?

Nah, she has long sleeves now, and it was pretty clear that her desert outfit was sleeveless.


I love the tiny doctor's mask on banjo. :smallbiggrin:

All the characters are looking really good, and seeing that Haley's armor has at least some resemblance to actual leather armor after all is amusing. Also, based on Elan's conversation in comic 647 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html) he appears to have gained another level, presumably along with the rest of the party. They've got to be getting pretty close to level 20 at this point. I wonder if Durkula or V might pull out a 9th level spell sometime during this arc without anyone have to sell their soul.

Durkula's got a pretty big Level Adjustment to contend with, so unlikely for him. At least, unless and until Durkon gets ressurected.


Since does Haley wear an undershirt? I thought she was flaunting the goods.


This isn't really the weather for that.

[137beth]

And silly Elan is BACK while still contributing to the group:smallsmile:

[M.A.D]

What happened to Haley's flaunting time? She's wearing an awful lot of clothes

What? I'm just sayin'

[AstralFire]

Elan continues to be my favorite party member.

[Bulldog Psion]

I would like to just note in passing, by the way, that Elan is one bizarre fellow.

[Alysar]

I'm loving the new background style. I'm a little iffy on the new character style, but I think it at least goes with the new backgrounds more than the old character style did.

[ORione]

What happened to Haley's flaunting time? She's wearing an awful lot of clothes

What? I'm just sayin'

I'm pretty sure my mother is the only one who likes going sleeveless in the rain.

[Grey Watcher]

I wonder if it's actually the old pre-desert outfit- just shown in more detail?

That outfit had an exposed midriff. Given the coloring, this looks like he's trying to give her the same look (ignoring the art upgrade) as the one she has in the Gygax Magazine continuity.

[FolcoTook]

I've always pictured a wizard's or alchemist's lab having a couple of ray of frost wands around to use as fire extinguishers just in case an experiment gets out of hand.

[AstralFire]

I've always pictured a wizard's or alchemist's lab having a couple of ray of frost wands around to use as fire extinguishers just in case an experiment gets out of hand.

You'd probably want something completely different. Rapid spot cooling would make things worse or just as bad in many cases. Hence Haley's comment.

[zimmerwald1915]

No--we already saw him use Song of Freedom a while back, and he needs 12 bard levels to do that; he only needs 11 to cast a 4th-level bard spell like Cure Critical Wounds.
Remember, Elan's repertoire of healing spells was limited to mass cure light wounds, and only one casting per day at that, as recently as strip 904 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0904.html). It's hardly radical to say this is a new spell known, and new spells known, whether from filling new spells-known slots or swapping out old ones, means a level-up.

Hmm, mixed feelings on this strip. On the one hand, the visuals continue to impress, with perspective in the shots of the poop deck and the ambient light's effect on the colors (will we see shadows in Book Six?). On the other, method acting does not mean "immersion in one's role" and one of the criticisms of teaching the style is that it can lead to the exact opposite result. Pet peeve.

[Keltest]

Elan is dedicated to being in a support role. Nurses support.

Dude is probably unconscious or disabled from some non-directly-a-hit-points-issue condition, even though Elan healed the HP damage. Not in danger of dying, still in pain/not fully functional.

Been reserving judgment so far to give myself some time to get used to it. My two cents: The art style upgrade is great and much needed, lets you keep your distinctive flair while giving you more room to work with for storytelling. The typeface and lettering choices on the other hand... bit of a sidegrade, neither the original nor the replacement are great for lettering, imo. The current typeface is more pleasing aesthetically, but is a little too... over-emphasized, my eye wants to wander quickly because it gets tired of the letters. Still, not a big thing.

I believe the word you are looking for is "stunned"

[SavageWombat]

Nice to have a fun one again. Getting kind of rare. (NTIC)

Comic load funny for anyone else?

[F.Harr]

That's probably the wisest attitude, Haley.

We don't need him derailed just when he starts being useful.

[Dracon1us]

What happened to Haley's flaunting time? She's wearing an awful lot of clothes

What? I'm just sayin'

exactly my thoughts :smallbiggrin:
chilly places?


GREAT ART
not the first time that's hinted that Elan, as a rockstar trope, may be bicurious...:smallamused:

anyway...after all the wait... I'm craving the A-list characters :smallcool::smallcool::smallcool:

[Smolder]

I saw the title and thought this was going to be another strip about HPoH impersonating Durkon.

But no, it's a reminder that the team won't be without a healer after they're forced to stake him.

[AgitoSasaki]

OH GAWD LOOK AT HOW WAVY ELAN'S AHOGE IS

ahem. Still lovin the art style. Loads of little details in this one like Elan's lute and the minor scratches on the airship driver-lady likely due to close proximity to the explosion that injured dreadlock-bandana dude.

[zimmerwald1915]

OH GAWD LOOK AT HOW WAVY ELAN'S AHOGE IS
With hair strands that taper to a point, like Julio's mustache and Haley's stray hair. And possibly Belkar's hair, though it's a little hard to tell.

Also, thank you for teaching me a new word.

[ZedarFlight]

It's good to know that Elan's first patient of the arc will pull through just fine. :smallsmile:
Since, you know, he has a name.

[Vectner]

And back to the comedy! It was starting to get a bit serious there for a while.

[Daibhid C]

Elan is dedicated to being in a support role. Nurses support.

He's the Rory Williams-Pond of OOTS!

[zimmerwald1915]

And back to the comedy! It was starting to get a bit serious there for a while.
What comedy? This strip explores the very serious issues of medical malpractice and treatment without consent :smallamused:

[DLcygnet]

What comedy? This strip explores the very serious issues of medical malpractice and treatment without consent :smallamused:

Not to mention introducing, "Navigation's offline. We'll have to continue on foot."
"Dun dun DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!"

[AsteronIronhoof]

YES! It's finally out! And I'm lovin' the art uprade for Haley!

[pendell]

Bravo, Elan! Way to be heroic, save a life, and hit all the medical tropes at the same time!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Amphiox]

Waaaaait just a damn minute.

When did Banjo have time to get a PhD? They haven't been adventuring long enough for him to have that kind of time.

Dammit, Burlew. I can't take this complete lack of realism in your comic!

Maybe it's a mail order degree or honorary degree. The regulations on degree accreditation could be more lax in Stickverse than in RL. Such that it could be just a single Sending away...

[toapat]

I've always pictured a wizard's or alchemist's lab having a couple of ray of frost wands around to use as fire extinguishers just in case an experiment gets out of hand.

the item you are looking for is a Staff of Cone of Cold

[Doug Lampert]

Dr. Banjo?
So?
He's a god with delusions of grandure and thinks he's a doctor.


Nah, she has long sleeves now, and it was pretty clear that her desert outfit was sleeveless.

I've seen several people comment on sleeves. Remember that sleeves were NOT actually part of the main garment until quite recently in historical terms, instead they were detachable separate peices of cloth that could be removed if the weather didn't need long sleeves.

For anything that qualifies as "period" for D&D it's completely realistic for the same garment to sometimes have long sleeves and sometimes not. :)

[zimmerwald1915]

So?
He's a god with delusions of grandure and thinks he's a doctor.
He also trained with Batman.


the item you are looking for is a Staff of Cone of Cold
A staff, and not a self-resetting trap?

[Gift Jeraff]

Maybe it's a mail order degree or honorary degree. The regulations on degree accreditation could be more lax in Stickverse than in RL. Such that it could be just a single Sending away...

Or maybe his degree was doctored.

[brionl]

I see a new TV show...

Dr Banjo, Medicine Puppet.

[Rogar Demonblud]

All I can say is 'Awesome'.

[One Skunk Todd]

Method Doctor, heh. :) Can Banj-upuncture be far behind? :)

[underpowered]

Awwww yeah :smallcool: secondary healer! Yet another role the Bard almost excels at. Loving the new Elan, looking forward to new V.

[Ave]

1. Cure Critical Wounds doesn't have a material component.

2. This isn't Pathfinder.

Right, this is an RPG comic :D

[Sylthia]

I wonder what damage a scalpel does.

[jmucchiello]

Nothing like waking up to a guy speaking to a hand puppet.

Although I suppose since Banjo has followers, their afterlife could look like that. If Elan had converted this guy in the last 3 pages, he might be more confused than his "hnnn" indicates. :)

[Clistenes]

Elan should have let the orcs keep Banjo. With time, they would have turned him into a true deity who would protect Elan.

I wonder if there is some bard-friendly priestly or templar prestige class that Banjo could grant to Elan...maybe one of the BoED prestige classes?

[zimmerwald1915]

I wonder what damage a scalpel does.
A normal one? Probably 1+Str/19-20 or 1d2+Str/19-20. Banjo's? Probably 1+plot/19-20 or 1d2+plot/19-20.

[b_jonas]

I wonder what damage a scalpel does.

Base damage for a scalpel is 1d3.

[SteveDJ]

Ok, everyone seems to love the new look... well, I might have to differ... just a bit... :smallwink:

Oh, I love the new overall look, and the new font works great, too. And giving the characters long sleeves works, too (they are going to a cold climate, after all).

It's the hands that just feel wrong now. For years, this has been "[The] Order of the Stick"... and now, we seem to have lost the "stick". :smallfrown:

P.S. Everyone loves the "Doctor Banjo" line -- is nobody going to give some love to the "Nurse Elan" line? :smallbiggrin:

[SteveDJ]

I wonder what damage a scalpel does.


Base damage for a scalpel is 1d3.

So, timing question -- just supposing that Felix was at -9. Would the "poke" have inflicted a point of damage, causing death, before the CCW could perform its healing effect?

[AstralFire]

So, timing question -- just supposing that Felix was at -9. Would the "poke" have inflicted a point of damage, causing death, before the CCW could perform its healing effect?

As the touch is part of the mechanic necessary for healing, I'd say no from a "makes sense" view.

If we're going strictly by D&D 3 rules, Cure spells would have to be something you could "hold the charge" on for Elan to do a strike that deals damage with the spell, and he couldn't do it in the same round.

[ChristianSt]

So, timing question -- just supposing that Felix was at -9. Would the "poke" have inflicted a point of damage, causing death, before the CCW could perform its healing effect?

In the last panel you can see a small drop of blood on Felix's chest, so I would think he took the damage (if any) after the healing effect.

[iyaerP]

I lost it at Elan poking him with the tiny scalpel.

[Amphiox]

Of course, with a PhD, he shouldn't be touching human(oid) patients.

One needs an MD for that.

Of course in the Stickverse it could also be an apprenticeship thing for the degree.

But I think everyone is missing the BIG theological implications here. Whether it is by apprenticeship, or by accreditation, someone or thing has to have granted Banjo's degree.

This implies the possibility of a third, or more, member of the Clown Pantheon, as yet unnamed....

[AstralFire]

Of course, with a PhD, he shouldn't be touching human(oid) patients.

One needs an MD for that.

Of course in the Stickverse it could also be an apprenticeship thing for the degree.

But I think everyone is missing the BIG theological implications here. Whether it is by apprenticeship, or by accreditation, someone or thing has to have granted Banjo's degree.

This implies the possibility of a third, or more, member of the Clown Pantheon, as yet unnamed....

Banjo probably just has a correspondence course with Greendale.

[Doug Lampert]

As the touch is part of the mechanic necessary for healing, I'd say no from a "makes sense" view.

If we're going strictly by D&D 3 rules, Cure spells would have to be something you could "hold the charge" on for Elan to do a strike that deals damage with the spell, and he couldn't do it in the same round.

You can in fact hold the charge on a cure spell. This is important since the cure spell can be used as an attack vs. undead.

OTOH: I don't think Elan is holding the charge, I think Rich is simply allowing that the free touch which can be used at the same time as you cast the spell does some trivial damage (possibly less than 1 HP) if the touch is done with a hand holding a puppet holding a scalpel.

[Reathin]

Of course, with a PhD, he shouldn't be touching human(oid) patients.

One needs an MD for that.

Of course in the Stickverse it could also be an apprenticeship thing for the degree.

But I think everyone is missing the BIG theological implications here. Whether it is by apprenticeship, or by accreditation, someone or thing has to have granted Banjo's degree.

This implies the possibility of a third, or more, member of the Clown Pantheon, as yet unnamed....

No doubt that would be Grandjo, God of Puppets Who Are Also Gods. He's the only known deity who grants his worshipers the Recursion domain.

[David Argall]

But he didn't have the spell before; he planned to swap out one of his spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html) for it later.
That was 300 strips ago. Given the party have gained levels at about a 100-150 strip rate, the question is how many levels he has gained since then, not if.


Remember, Elan's repertoire of healing spells was limited to mass cure light wounds, and only one casting per day at that, as recently as strip 904 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0904.html).
This would be based on the clearly incorrect theory that only spells cast on camera happened. But we have several cases of spellcasters announcing they are out of spells when only a few of their spells are shown being cast. Quite simply, a lot of spells are cast off camera. Since Elan had enough opportunities before 904 to have cast loads of healing spells, 904 can't be used as proof he only had 1. And since 647 mentions plans to get additional healing spells, our presumption is that he has additional healing.

[AstralFire]

You can in fact hold the charge on a cure spell. This is important since the cure spell can be used as an attack vs. undead.

OTOH: I don't think Elan is holding the charge, I think Rich is simply allowing that the free touch which can be used at the same time as you cast the spell does some trivial damage (possibly less than 1 HP) if the touch is done with a hand holding a puppet holding a scalpel.

I'm no expert on this, but I thought spells you could hold the charge on had to be specifically called out? Though if true, this makes Cure Light Wounds only somewhat terrible as an attack form.

[Keltest]

I'm no expert on this, but I thought spells you could hold the charge on had to be specifically called out? Though if true, this makes Cure Light Wounds only somewhat terrible as an attack form.

If at any point you are finding yourself casting cure light wounds as an attack form, you've been drop kicked past the Godzilla threshold and end up circling around to land in front of it again.

[AstralFire]

Godzilla Threshold? That's a new one.

[Fragenstein]

Godzilla Threshold? That's a new one.

Nah. Just continued TVTropist Moronica. As a concept, it probably even predates Greek tragedies. I'm sure someone once wrote a play in Golgotha using the Tiamat Threshold.

[Neoriceisgood]

There's a new font, right? Didn't notice that on the last page or two.

Neat too see Elan's little ... "friend" back.

[Khay]

No doubt that would be Grandjo, God of Puppets Who Are Also Gods. He's the only known deity who grants his worshipers the Recursion domain.

Lesser Recursion (Evocation)
Level: Recursion 4
Casting Time, Range, Target, Effect, Area, Duration, Saving Throws: See text

Recursion can duplicate any spell of the Recursion domain.

[Lexible]

First time through, I totally read the last talk-bubble on the last panel as the closing part of Haley's remark to Bandana. Extra funny given the look on Bandana's face.

[t209]

So anyone thinking about OOTS: HD edition at some point in the future; however, it would kill Haley's pants (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html) joke.

[Lexible]

Of course, with a PhD, he shouldn't be touching human(oid) patients.

One needs an MD for that.

Of course in the Stickverse it could also be an apprenticeship thing for the degree.

But I think everyone is missing the BIG theological implications here. Whether it is by apprenticeship, or by accreditation, someone or thing has to have granted Banjo's degree.

This implies the possibility of a third, or more, member of the Clown Pantheon, as yet unnamed....

Wait. . you are positing some kind of. . . posse of clown deities? That's insane.

I see what I did there. . .

[Kish]

Neat too see Elan's little ... "friend" back.
Elan still has his clothes on. :smallconfused:

[Keltest]

Elan still has his clothes on. :smallconfused:

wrong friend.

[AstralFire]

Nah. Just continued TVTropist Moronica. As a concept, it probably even predates Greek tragedies. I'm sure someone once wrote a play in Golgotha using the Tiamat Threshold.

I meant the term was a new one. I actually googled it, it was more of a polite reminder that not all of us are immediately fluent in TV Tropes.

"Moronica" seems a bit harsh though.


Wait. . you are positing some kind of. . . posse of clown deities? That's insane.

freaking spell slots, how do they work

[Adaon Nightwind]

Nice Comic ^^

This would be about the first time that a webcomic character makes me want to play a LARP - Character based on it. "Dr. Puppet, we need you at the frontlines! The Orcs have gotten through. Please come and bring your, uh, student, to carry you..!"

[Doug Lampert]

I'm no expert on this, but I thought spells you could hold the charge on had to be specifically called out? Though if true, this makes Cure Light Wounds only somewhat terrible as an attack form.

From the SRD:

Touch Spells and Holding the Charge
In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

Basically, unless it's multitarget, for a touch spell the default is that you can hold the charge.

[Themrys]

Poor Elan, he seems to lack confidence. Well, as long as he as Banjo ...

Is it somewhat uncertain whether Felix will survive? [Insert creepy comment about the attractiveness of Felix' bare chest here. Someone has to make one.]

[Kish]

Is it somewhat uncertain whether Felix will survive? [Insert creepy comment about the attractiveness of Felix' bare chest here. Someone has to make one.]
No, not really. Possibly in Elan's mind, but definitely nowhere else.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

I'm glad that Haley seems to be dressed modestly. I, for one, wholeheartedly approve.

[Fragenstein]

"Moronica" seems a bit harsh though.

I dunno. The nouveau definition of 'trope' is supposed to be a concept familiar by a large enough majority that a shortcut term can be used as quick reference. Inventing new terms and putting them on That Website just so that they'll gain the notoriety to become well known as a trope seems tautological enough to qualify as something that would happen in the fictional country of a Three Stooges film.

After all. If That Website is the repository of classic concepts of fiction as it purports, then regular visitors should be familiar with what the Stooges themselves considered to be one of their all-time best shorts, featuring the not-real nation of war-torn Moronica.

But I digress. Returning to the discussion at hand, put me down as another in favor of the non-trolloped Haley. She's held positions of serious leadership. Her arch-enemies can dress however they like, but I appreciate her choice to dress for respect rather than fanboyism.

Plus, I'm happy to see that Elan really was wearing a Han Solo style vest all this time. I wasn't just imagining it.

[Arin]

That's even worse! He earned a fake PhD. That means he's practising without a license. He's no doctor at all!

EDIT: Welp, Rich himself gave me the best answer for my totally serious question:

https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/status/456787104941760512

I'm guessing he got it from the same accreditation board that continues to allow Dr. House to practice.

I'm noticing similarities in style and bedside manner.

[snikrept]

Trying to put out a ship fire by shooting at the fire using an icy burst longbow seems very rules-lawyerish. Surprised no joke was made about it in the comic!

[Keltest]

Trying to put out a ship fire by shooting at the fire using an icy burst longbow seems very rules-lawyerish. Surprised no joke was made about it in the comic!

I think youre misusing the term rules-lawyering. That implies that the person is trying to get away with something unreasonable by exploiting a technicality in the rules. This is just somewhat counter-intuitive, and its actually something I would reward (in the form of bonus xp, for example) for pulling off.

[Mogotoo]

In the last three panels, is anyone else seeing Banjo move from Elan's left hand to his right and back to his left?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Elan should have let the orcs keep Banjo. With time, they would have turned him into a true deity who would protect Elan.

I wonder if there is some bard-friendly priestly or templar prestige class that Banjo could grant to Elan...maybe one of the BoED prestige classes?

Technically, Elan could use any number of PCs with a 'divine caster' pre-req if he's a Divine Bard from Unearthed Arcana.

[zimmerwald1915]

In the last three panels, is anyone else seeing Banjo move from Elan's left hand to his right and back to his left?
Banjo moves in mysterious ways.

[Smolder]

Trying to put out a ship fire by shooting at the fire using an icy burst longbow seems very rules-lawyerish. Surprised no joke was made about it in the comic!

Especially considering the low proc rate. How many times have we seen icy burst vs. the number of arrows Haley has shot? It can't be more than 1:5. So on average, she'd probably have to shoot a few more arrows to be sure the fire was out.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I have to say, I once again didn't notice any art difference until I went back and reread the comic. Of course, having dome that, I think that they are great!

Also, I notice a lot of people are talking about Haley's clothing.

[monkeyslinger]

In the last three panels, is anyone else seeing Banjo move from Elan's left hand to his right and back to his left?

This isn't the first time something like that has happened. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0761.html)

[Gnoman]

Especially considering the low proc rate. How many times have we seen icy burst vs. the number of arrows Haley has shot? It can't be more than 1:5. So on average, she'd probably have to shoot a few more arrows to be sure the fire was out.

The control console was helpless, so she was obviously able to perform a coup de grace on it, scoring an automatic critical hit.

[zimmerwald1915]

The control console was helpless, so she was obviously able to perform a coup de grace on it, scoring an automatic critical hit.
Why is the ordinary frost effect of an icy burst bow not sufficient to explain what we see?

[WindStruck]

You think they understand the pressures of a doctor? You think they know?!

You think they know!?! :smallfurious:

[Doug Lampert]

Trying to put out a ship fire by shooting at the fire using an icy burst longbow seems very rules-lawyerish. Surprised no joke was made about it in the comic!

How so? By the book rules there's NOTHING that says cold puts out fires.

So it isn't using the rules to do something unreasonable, it's following the item description and logically doing something someone with that power might do with it. That's the opposite of rules lawyering, it won't work in a rules lawyering group but will work in a group that puts its emphasis on what makes sense in setting, which is exactly what an immersive roleplayer should be doing!


The control console was helpless, so she was obviously able to perform a coup de grace on it, scoring an automatic critical hit.

Doesn't work, coup de grace with a ranged weapon requires that you be adjacent, and coup de grace is a full round action and Haley was (a) moving and (b) fired two arrows.

OTOH icy burst requires that the weapon does 1d6 cold damage even without a critical, so Haley put 2d6 cold damage onto that fire and a mundane fire just isn't that much heat (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0243.html).

[Knight.Anon]

I'd like to see an "Elvis" style jumpsuit in the new art style. Cloaks and hoods will probably be awesome as well.

[Amphiox]

That's even worse! He earned a fake PhD. That means he's practising without a license. He's no doctor at all!

EDIT: Welp, Rich himself gave me the best answer for my totally serious question:

https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/status/456787104941760512

Technically, you can't get a license with a PhD. In fact you don't get it automatically with an MD either. The degree is granted by the educational institution to demonstrate that you have successfully completed training. The license is granted by the accreditation agency that enables you to practice within the jurisdiction in question, and they have their own set of criteria that usually includes having the training but also some other stuff which can vary from place to place. That's why when physicians move from country to country, or sometimes even state to state, they have to reapply for licensure.

So the question here is what entity has jurisdiction for accreditation here? Are still in Empire of Blood territory, are they already in Dwarven Lands, or does the Mechane count as its own jurisdiction (in which case Julio Scoundrel himself could have been empowered to grant licensure to Banjo before he left...)



Elan should have let the orcs keep Banjo. With time, they would have turned him into a true deity who would protect Elan.

I wonder if there is some bard-friendly priestly or templar prestige class that Banjo could grant to Elan...maybe one of the BoED prestige classes?

Since the Orcs are worshipping Chuckles, and it is a key feature of Chuckles' mythology that Banjo is his rival, all the direct worship they give Chuckles should secondarily reflect on Banjo too, without need for direct worship of him...


Nah. Just continued TVTropist Moronica. As a concept, it probably even predates Greek tragedies. I'm sure someone once wrote a play in Golgotha using the Tiamat Threshold.

If you object to the TV Tropes name for it, what is the *other* commonly understand name for the concept that you prefer?


How so? By the book rules there's NOTHING that says cold puts out fires.

So it isn't using the rules to do something unreasonable, it's following the item description and logically doing something someone with that power might do with it. That's the opposite of rules lawyering, it won't work in a rules lawyering group but will work in a group that puts its emphasis on what makes sense in setting, which is exactly what an immersive roleplayer should be doing!

If I were DMing that, I would have the fire gutter from reduced temperature from a single shot, but then flare back up from the residual heat as the icy burst effect dissipates, and make Haley use multishot to provide the adequate coverage in both time and space to put out the fire.

Though from the artwork it is entirely possible that that is exactly what she did...

[jere7my]

If you object to the TV Tropes name for it, what is the *other* commonly understand name for the concept that you prefer?

Since I still don't know what concept that term is supposed to refer to, I can't help you with that. Oedipal clam? Anniversary fire prawn? Looby-Doo by Simon and Garfunkel? Squats?

[FleshrakerAbuse]

I like that Elan has returned to his older silly self, after the sudden events of last book.

Also, I think Elan needs to use his illusions to make banjo clothed with more silly things more often now, like Return of the banjthullu!

We need a detective Banjo! Elan can be named Watson for the time.

[sims796]

I am loving this art upgrade. Had no idea Elan had sleeves.

[FleshrakerAbuse]

Also, the eyes of the ship captain in the last panel were hilarious. (o o)

[AstralFire]

Since I still don't know what concept that term is supposed to refer to, I can't help you with that. Oedipal clam? Anniversary fire prawn? Looby-Doo by Simon and Garfunkel? Squats?

The point at which any option is a good option regardless of likelihood of success or collateral damage, because doing nothing will result in certain catastrophe.

[jere7my]

The point at which any option is a good option regardless of likelihood of success or collateral damage, because doing nothing will result in certain catastrophe.

Ahh. In that case, the answer is "Hail Mary." If that doesn't fit the bill, then the answer is that there is no commonly known term for that situation—because "Godzilla threshold" is clearly not commonly known outside fans of a certain website.

[AstralFire]

It does its job, and some phenomena are common but don't really have a good term. It does get kinda sucked up in itself from time to time, though. "Hail Mary" would be a much better name -- I agree.

[Domino Quartz]

It does its job, and some phenomena are common but don't really have a good term. It does get kinda sucked up in itself from time to time, though. "Hail Mary" would be a much better name -- I agree.

Some people might have no idea what Hail Mary refers to in this context, though. I certainly wouldn't know. The TVTropes term for that concept is the only one I'm familiar with.

[Keltest]

Some people might have no idea what Hail Mary refers to in this context, though. I certainly wouldn't know. The TVTropes term for that concept is the only one I'm familiar with.

ditto. Ive heard "Hail Mary" before, but its not used often enough for me to have any sort of context for how to use the term.

[Amphiox]

Ahh. In that case, the answer is "Hail Mary."

"Hail Mary Threshold" works better.

(Ironically both the Hail Mary passing play and the pulling the goalie in hockey strategy are listed on that TVTropes page as real life examples.)

But "Hail Mary" refers to the actual act (ie, unleashing Godzilla), whereas the threshold refers to the point in which it is reasonable to consider such an act.

And "Hail Mary Threshold" does not carry the connotation of massive collateral damage with it, unless you count disappointed football players as "massive collateral damage".

"Pyrrhic victory threshold" may also work.


If that doesn't fit the bill, then the answer is that there is no commonly known term for that situation—because "Godzilla threshold" is clearly not commonly known outside fans of a certain website.

If there really is no commonly known term for that situation, then using "Godzilla threshold" to describe is perfectly acceptable, since whatever term you use will require your audience to look it up anyways. The best way in fact is to use that term PLUS a reference/link to the explanation, or any other similarly arcane term with the reference.

Of course, "Godzilla threshold" is in fact not really a very good term either, since by itself it doesn't automatically carry the connotation of a strategy to try. "Godzilla" could refer to anything related to the titular monster after all. Even someone who gets the cultural reference might be confused and wonder if it refers to the radiation level that awakens Godzilla (ie the threshold of moronic behavior that results in some kind of karmic consequence), or the damage the Godzilla does (ie a threshold that is just a measurement of the magnitude of a catastrophe), or the line between good and bad popular entertainment (ie the comparison with classic Godzilla and the hollywood Godzilla movie), and so forth.

[StClair]

I'm just here to grin at the exploding console (from Every Star Trek Ever).

[Jaxzan Proditor]

For a lot of things, It will be hard to find a term that everyone uses, or has at least heard of before. For my part, I wouldn't have recognized either "Hail Mary" or "Godzilla Threshold". Perhaps it would be easier to just use the definition, but using the trope name is usually faster.

[cctrackstar]

Oh for the....

CAN WE STOP FAWNING OVER THE ART! AND THE FONT!

I come here for comments on the story and the events taking place, along with the humor, and still it's the art?!

(mutter mutter, where's my cane.......)

[Ridureyu]

It's nice to know that Haley wears pants.

[Cynric]

It's nice to know that Haley wears pants.

Also nice to see everyone isn't wearing sleeveless shirts. I know it was hot in the Western Continent, but Jersey Shore this ain't

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Oh for the....

CAN WE STOP FAWNING OVER THE ART! AND THE FONT!

I come here for comments on the story and the events taking place, along with the humor, and still it's the art?!

(mutter mutter, where's my cane.......)

The art is a large part of the comic, since it's, you know, a comic. If you don't want to see comments about the art, entertain yourself with something without any. And, if you look beyond the art comments, you will see many comments about the story.

[Codex]

I have seen new art Banjo. I am complete.

[Doug Lampert]

ditto. Ive heard "Hail Mary" before, but its not used often enough for me to have any sort of context for how to use the term.

Name comes from the fact that you're basically praying and your strategy is reduced to trying something very unlikely to work and hoping for a miracle.

The term in this context comes from American Football.

A team that is (a) behind, (b) far from scoring, (c) out of time, and (d) can win with a touchdown will have the quarterback throw a pass to the end-zone trying to score a touchdown. The traditional Hail Mary pass is 50+ yards (roughly the same in meters) and the other team KNOWS you have to throw that far. So they have plenty of men deep for coverage, you're throwing into that crowd of people and hoping that someone from your team will come down with the ball rather than it either being intercepted or batted to the ground. Given the difficulty of catching a pass when covered and the ease of covering such a pass it's very unlikely to work.

Given the frequency with which the situation comes up it does sometime work.

The basket ball equivalent is the shot from beyond half court at the buzzer.

The bridge equivalent is the rule "when you can only make your contract with one specific lie of the cards assume that's where the cards are".

The term existed prior to Doug Flutie's 1984 throw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail_Flutie). But I think that's what really popularized it. Note that in Flutie's case the throw was so long, the wind so bad, and Flutie was so significantly known as a short passer that the defenders didn't even bother to properly cover the long route, which is one reason it worked.

Amusingly many people now know of Flutie ONLY as the guy who threw that pass, not for the short roll-out pass that he was the master of, but the play so uncharacteristic that it shocked everyone he would even try it.

And now you know.

[elros]

Elan as a backup healer is probably the best use of his spell slots, anyway.
Regarding Elan's level, he planned on "swapping one of [his] current 4th-level spells for Cure Critical Wounds (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html)." He could have made that switch every third bard level after 5th level (8th, 11th, 14th, etc) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm), which means it could have happened many strips ago. And knowing our level and class geekery thread, that issue has probably already been worked out!

[Amphiox]

It occurs to me that this very comic actually has an excellent example that can be used to described the "Godzilla Threshold".

The "Godzilla Threshold" can be approximated, in OotS terms, to a situation wherein Vaarsuvius using the Soul Splice to try to take down Xykon would be a *good* idea. (Or at very least a goodish-neutral idea).

Obviously the way it actually happened in the comic, the threshold had not been crossed, and using the Soul Splice then was a very *bad* idea. But it is readily easy to envision a set of circumstances in this narrative where such would not have been an automatically bad idea. THAT circumstance then, or its equivalent, is when the threshold is reached.

We could call it the "Soul Splice Threshold".

[Jay R]

The term existed prior to Doug Flutie's 1984 throw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail_Flutie). But I think that's what really popularized it.

The term was popularized by Roger Staubach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail_Mary_pass), when he won a playoff game in 1975 with it, and called it a Hail Mary play in the locker room interviews, but it had been around since at least the 1930s. when it was used by Notre Dame (a Catholic university).

Flutie's was the first big Hail Mary pass after the term had been popularized.

[toapat]

Name comes from the fact that you're basically praying and your strategy is reduced to trying something very unlikely to work and hoping for a miracle.

The term in this context comes from American Football.

A team that is (a) behind, (b) far from scoring, (c) out of time, and (d) can win with a touchdown will have the quarterback throw a pass to the end-zone trying to score a touchdown. The traditional Hail Mary pass is 50+ yards (roughly the same in meters) and the other team KNOWS you have to throw that far. So they have plenty of men deep for coverage, you're throwing into that crowd of people and hoping that someone from your team will come down with the ball rather than it either being intercepted or batted to the ground. Given the difficulty of catching a pass when covered and the ease of covering such a pass it's very unlikely to work.

Given the frequency with which the situation comes up it does sometime work.

The basket ball equivalent is the shot from beyond half court at the buzzer.

The bridge equivalent is the rule "when you can only make your contract with one specific lie of the cards assume that's where the cards are".

The term existed prior to Doug Flutie's 1984 throw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail_Flutie). But I think that's what really popularized it. Note that in Flutie's case the throw was so long, the wind so bad, and Flutie was so significantly known as a short passer that the defenders didn't even bother to properly cover the long route, which is one reason it worked.

Amusingly many people now know of Flutie ONLY as the guy who threw that pass, not for the short roll-out pass that he was the master of, but the play so uncharacteristic that it shocked everyone he would even try it.

And now you know.

The hail mary play is actually entirely inaccurate. Its an incredibly straightforward offensive formation that gives 3 long passes for the Quarterback. Assuming you want to gain yards its one of the most reliable ways to gain them. Its the Wildcat offense that is entirely a crapshoot. It may have a rare reputation of being able to get 50+ yards in a single down but its simply a passing play that is very good because of its simplicity and difficulty to actually adequately stop. Notably in older madden games the play was nearly worthless where as in more recent ones, its the backbone of victory.

a better term would be "An Atypical day in Manhatten" or "Tuesday in Manhatten", because to the rest of the world, you would think NYC goes through a disaster once a week.

The problem with naming it is that Godzilla was never really destructive in his movies to the extent the page implies, nor is hail mary relevant because the origin of the term is a paper thin joke about a reliable offensive play.

[czieg]

The new art is kind of weird but the Dr. Banjo has made me come back to read this 3 times today.

[oppyu]

The important thing is that Elan now has competence to go along with his general idiocy. Does Haley not trust not-Durkon (who we know is still standing on deck loudly exclaiming about Thor's nuts), or was it simply a matter of Elan being closer?

[Everyl]

It occurs to me that this very comic actually has an excellent example that can be used to described the "Godzilla Threshold".

The "Godzilla Threshold" can be approximated, in OotS terms, to a situation wherein Vaarsuvius using the Soul Splice to try to take down Xykon would be a *good* idea. (Or at very least a goodish-neutral idea).

Obviously the way it actually happened in the comic, the threshold had not been crossed, and using the Soul Splice then was a very *bad* idea. But it is readily easy to envision a set of circumstances in this narrative where such would not have been an automatically bad idea. THAT circumstance then, or its equivalent, is when the threshold is reached.

We could call it the "Soul Splice Threshold".

Yeah, but it would be nice to be able to talk about desperate long-shot situations without automatically referencing one of the more debate-inducing events in OOTS history.

[Doug Lampert]

The hail mary play is actually entirely inaccurate. Its an incredibly straightforward offensive formation that gives 3 long passes for the Quarterback. Assuming you want to gain yards its one of the most reliable ways to gain them.
Yeah, it's SO RELIABLE that it is absolutely never used outside of desperation situations such as going for it on fourth and long or last second plays by a losing team because the most common outcome if you do use it is an interception, and the second most common outcome is an incompletion.

Note: Sending three receivers long isn't a Hail Mary, and a typical "long" pattern is closer to 20 yards forward in the air than the typical Hail Mary's 50+.

But please name one offense in NFL or major college or even successful high school ball has ever been based on this astonishingly reliable play.

The back shoulder crossing pattern is probably currently the most successful and reliable play at high level football, because it is almost impossible to defend a good back shoulder pass, on the other hand the timing required is so tight that most offenses simply can't execute it.

[BrotherMirtillo]

Plot-wise, it's casual. Pace-wise, the ship is still up to the poop deck in trouble. Cool!

Also, I'm loving the hair. I don't know how many hairstyles are possible on stick figures, but in storm winds, I think that number gets a bonus.

My headcanon is that Haley dyed her Mk. II top and combined it with her Mk. I outfit. And yes, it does include long pants. Overall, I love the new arrays. I now realize that it's the sleeves I'm still trying to assimilate. I rarely connect the words "uncanny valley" and "stick figure," but after a few years of reading, that's the closest I can describe my reaction. If I see a character with big sleeves, my brain fills in big arms. I saw skinnier sleeves on not-Durkon or Roy (brawlers, both of them) than on Elan or half of the crew. That seems wrong. I'll just have to imagine some very tight armor on people that retain skinny arms.

Last and not least, I cannot believe I never anticipated the tactical status in that last panel. I think I kinda figured Durkon would plan lots of healing spells in advance, just like he told Roy would be necessary. I never considered that the team would lean on Elan like that. (Of course, I also wasn't counting levels.) You go, Elan. You're on a role!

[Shoelessgdowar]

How much damage would the scalpel be? I'm surprised the scalpel wound didn't close up with the scalpel in it.

1d2 Damage, and I think the would is being applied after the spells effects


That's what I assumed. I think it was based on things like the last panel here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0693.html).

Ironically, I now noticed a long missed mistake in that comic, that somehow has been overlooked. The needed keywords to trigger the spell are: Gate, Girard, Sapphire Guard, & Soon. Except the issue is... no one present said Gate.

Oh no, that means Girard is a really a ultra magnificent bastich... he created a Inception Illusion... the imaginary life spell didn't start when they went into the Rune Covered Hallway, it started back here in the middle of the desert, and the Rune Covered Hallway was the Illusion Life within the Illusion Life, they still haven't woken up. And Now Durkon is going into the Deep Void because he died in the dream, which is why he has his own Hel-ish nightmare within the dream.


Waaaaait just a damn minute.

When did Banjo have time to get a PhD? They haven't been adventuring long enough for him to have that kind of time.

Dammit, Burlew. I can't take this complete lack of realism in your comic!


In modern times, sure, you have to go to school and study, and get degrees to be a doctor. Though technically Banjo would need a MD (Medical Doctorate) not a PhD (Philosophical Doctorate). Now this brings up the other parts of this argument... 1) a PhD is actually way easier to get (honorary ones are given out all the time), 2) Since PhDs are based on Philosophy, by being a deity, Banjo can bless himself with a PhD in the Philosophy of his own Faith. 3) Since this is not based in Modern Times, we get the added matter that Tribes and Communities would declare or accept people to the role and/or title of Witch Doctor, which could be abbreviated to just Local Doctor, Town Doctor, Doctor, Doc, Shaman, or whatever they wanted, which means under the Religion of Banjo, Elan as the High Priest could declare Banjo in such a manner, or Banjo could just swish into panel and declare himself a Doctor without any previous experience what so ever, and his position would have to be debunked by a more skilled healer.


Actually, it was clearly visible that Elan was wearing a sleeveless vest towards the end of this strip: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html when Elan and Haley start undressing each other.

My question is, if Elan really cast a healing spell, why does Felix appear to still be dying?

Stabbed by Banjo's scalpel, getting splorched while healing just messes with your nerves and hurts extra amounts even though it is minuscule damage.

[DaggerPen]

My headcanon is that Haley dyed her Mk. II top and combined it with her Mk. I outfit. And yes, it does include long pants.

That's the impression I got, too. Given that it was reasonably high-level leather armor, I imagine she'd want to keep it for the AC and any other bonuses, but to go to the North Pole, she'd want some warmer clothes, and we know that her desert outfit had shorter pants and no sleeves, and her original outfit had pants. Just combining them doesn't work, colorwise, and this is the woman who refused to use some pretty sweet Boots of Speed for quite a while because of their color. I imagine the Mechane probably has dyes somewhere for the sake of Julio "outfit change every appearance" Scoundrél.

[Diadem]

Loved the Star Trek style exploding console! :)

[Doorhandle]

1. Cure Critical Wounds doesn't have a material component.

2. This isn't Pathfinder.

1. Well, now I know.
2. So don't care. beside, someone could be trying to make elan IN pathfinder, soo

[dtilque]

That was 300 strips ago. Given the party have gained levels at about a 100-150 strip rate, the question is how many levels he has gained since then, not if.


This would be based on the clearly incorrect theory that only spells cast on camera happened. But we have several cases of spellcasters announcing they are out of spells when only a few of their spells are shown being cast. Quite simply, a lot of spells are cast off camera. Since Elan had enough opportunities before 904 to have cast loads of healing spells, 904 can't be used as proof he only had 1. And since 647 mentions plans to get additional healing spells, our presumption is that he has additional healing.

Alternatively, it may be that Elan gained enough XP for Bard level 14 during the Longest Day, but didn't get the spell slots until the next day. That means he was still effectively level 13 until strip 946 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html) where we see the sun rising on the next day. The Longest Day went from strip 834 to 945, a matter of 111 strips. If he gained another level in that 300 strip period, he must have taken it in Dashing Swordsman.

I have no idea if the rules state exactly when you get new spell slots after attaining a new level, but if they don't, getting them when the caster renews spells seems a likely way to do it.

[Keltest]

Alternatively, it may be that Elan gained enough XP for Bard level 14 during the Longest Day, but didn't get the spell slots until the next day. That means he was still effectively level 13 until strip 946 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html) where we see the sun rising on the next day. The Longest Day went from strip 834 to 945, a matter of 111 strips. If he gained another level in that 300 strip period, he must have taken it in Dashing Swordsman.

I have no idea if the rules state exactly when you get new spell slots after attaining a new level, but if they don't, getting them when the caster renews spells seems a likely way to do it.

I don't think there are specific rules when you get the slots, but each class with spells has their own restrictions on when you can put spells into them. This usually takes time and some form of meditation, so it cant happen in combat or while the party is on the move. So if you get a spell slot, it starts blank, and then you can pick a spell to fill it when you can find the time to learn a spell for that level spell slot

[AstralFire]

I don't think there are specific rules when you get the slots, but each class with spells has their own restrictions on when you can put spells into them. This usually takes time and some form of meditation, so it cant happen in combat or while the party is on the move. So if you get a spell slot, it starts blank, and then you can pick a spell to fill it when you can find the time to learn a spell for that level spell slot

I once let my party do a giant level-up between end-of-campaign fights, but there was a plot device involved there.

[Mad Humanist]

Elan says Banjo has appeared in three pages but according to the appearance enumeration thread he has appeared many more times. Is this a contradiction?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Elan says Banjo has appeared in three pages but according to the appearance enumeration thread he has appeared many more times. Is this a contradiction?

He's not talking about Banjo, he's talking about the crewman, Felix. Banjo doesn't really have to "pull through", since he's not injured.

[Heksefatter]

Yes! Elan is now a fully-inducted cleric of Banjo, performing healing duties for his team and his god!

(If this is wrong, I don't want to be right!)

[Mad Humanist]

He's not talking about Banjo, he's talking about the crewman, Felix. Banjo doesn't really have to "pull through", since he's not injured.

Oh yes of course. How did I misread that? I must have got Banjo-obsessed.

[Calemyr]

One thought about the art upgrades - is there any chance the upgrades are plot-relevant? As in: the better art is actually a sign of corruption from the gates, making things more and more "real"? Just a weird thought I had looking at this.

[Keltest]

One thought about the art upgrades - is there any chance the upgrades are plot-relevant? As in: the better art is actually a sign of corruption from the gates, making things more and more "real"? Just a weird thought I had looking at this.

doubt it, although the new art might allow for new character interactions if new pieces of equipment are drawn.

[AstralFire]

One thought about the art upgrades - is there any chance the upgrades are plot-relevant? As in: the better art is actually a sign of corruption from the gates, making things more and more "real"? Just a weird thought I had looking at this.

Interesting theory, but I think a little too meta to be anything more than a throwaway joke.

[Calemyr]

Interesting theory, but I think a little too meta to be anything more than a throwaway joke.

This is the comic where the prequel party were drawn in crayon (due to their halfling's childlike nature, yes, but still).

[Emperordaniel]

Oh yes of course. How did I misread that? I must have got Banjo-obsessed.

One can never be too Banjo-obsessed. :elan:

[BannedInSchool]

One thought about the art upgrades - is there any chance the upgrades are plot-relevant? As in: the better art is actually a sign of corruption from the gates, making things more and more "real"? Just a weird thought I had looking at this.
Leading to some pages using photos of real people cosplaying as OotS? :smallsmile:

Hmm, somewhere there's someone unhappy that their black, flexible tubes they put on their arms and legs are no longer proper costuming. :smallfrown: At least the ball head is still right.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

One thought about the art upgrades - is there any chance the upgrades are plot-relevant? As in: the better art is actually a sign of corruption from the gates, making things more and more "real"? Just a weird thought I had looking at this.

Someone made a thread asking that question. It seems unlikely, as the most recent gate was destroyed several days before the events of the recent strips.

[Smolder]

One thought about the art upgrades - is there any chance the upgrades are plot-relevant? As in: the better art is actually a sign of corruption from the gates, making things more and more "real"? Just a weird thought I had looking at this.

I've been proposing that the art upgrades are plot-relevant, in that they allow the Giant to depict some plot-relevant detail that he couldn't in the old style.

"Why are there two little fang marks on your arm? Have you been feeding the vampire after midnight?"

[Ariko]

Ooh, got a new comic for my birthday! (which was yesterday, I had not checked the site)

[AstralFire]

One thought about the art upgrades - is there any chance the upgrades are plot-relevant? As in: the better art is actually a sign of corruption from the gates, making things more and more "real"? Just a weird thought I had looking at this.


This is the comic where the prequel party were drawn in crayon (due to their halfling's childlike nature, yes, but still).

That's not really "meta" though - changing an in-story depiction of another era based on the narrator's traits is pretty tried-and-true. Beauty and the Beast does it with the stained glass window intro. Having the world actually change its depiction as a serious plot point of reality unhinging is more a post-modern thing.


I've been proposing that the art upgrades are plot-relevant, in that they allow the Giant to depict some plot-relevant detail that he couldn't in the old style.

"Why are there two little fang marks on your arm? Have you been feeding the vampire after midnight?"

Yeah, I've said the same.

[zimmerwald1915]

Leading to some pages using photos of real people cosplaying as OotS?
That'd never, ever happen. Those people would demand wages.

[sengmeng]

Probably been asked but... is this real divine power from Banjo? Should Elan be able to cast ccw by himself?

Anyway, great strip. New artwork is awesome, although the non-stick arms and hands still freak me out a bit.

[AstralFire]

Probably been asked but... is this real divine power from Banjo? Should Elan be able to cast ccw by himself?

Anyway, great strip. New artwork is awesome, although the non-stick arms and hands still freak me out a bit.

Yes. After Cure Moderate Wounds or so, the Cure series is pretty terrible at its job for its level, so of course Bards have access to most of it. Bards are pretty awesome, but I swear most of the things they're good at came about by accident and poor design rather than intentionally trying to make them the most balanced class in 3E Core.

[Kish]

Probably been asked but... is this real divine power from Banjo? Should Elan be able to cast ccw by himself?

No and yes, in that order. Cure Critical Wounds is a bard spell; Elan has not abruptly gained 9 cleric levels and 10 Wisdom.

[sengmeng]

No and yes, in that order. Cure Critical Wounds is a bard spell; Elan has not abruptly gained 9 cleric levels and 10 Wisdom.

Then why did he use a holy symbol?

[Kish]

You mean, why did he go through a skit with his hand puppet?

If you're asking the question, I think you might have missed something about Elan. But regardless. Cure Critical Wounds is on the bard spell list. If you prefer to believe that Elan abruptly gained enough levels of cleric that he's now closer in level to Xykon than to anyone else in the comic, and also gained a massive Wisdom boost, have fun.

[Calemyr]

Then why did he use a holy symbol?

Because he's Elan.

[Amphiox]

You mean, why did he go through a skit with his hand puppet?

If you're asking the question, I think you might have missed something about Elan. But regardless. Cure Critical Wounds is on the bard spell list. If you prefer to believe that Elan abruptly gained enough levels of cleric that he's now closer in level to Xykon than to anyone else in the comic, and also gained a massive Wisdom boost, have fun.

He probably got a lot of XP from beating Tarquin (RPing as well as straight up combat....), but probably not THAT much!

[zimmerwald1915]

He probably got a lot of XP from beating Tarquin (RPing as well as straight up combat....), but probably not THAT much!
In terms of straight combat, he would have gotten enough to level once. I suppose it's up to each reader whether they want to believe he gained enough roleplaying and story XP to level six more times.

[Amphiox]

In terms of straight combat, he would have gotten enough to level once. I suppose it's up to each reader whether they want to believe he gained enough roleplaying and story XP to level six more times.

If Elan resolving parental issues is enough to level 6 times, then surely Haley got 2-3 levels from resolving HERS.

And the Orders future strategy should be clear. Fly straight to Elven lands so that V can resolve some hanging subplot with Aarindarius and also gain 6 levels and an epic spell slot or two....

[jere7my]

In terms of straight combat, he would have gotten enough to level once. I suppose it's up to each reader whether they want to believe he gained enough roleplaying and story XP to level six more times.

In D&D, you can't go up more than one level from any given encounter, unless they've changed that rule.

[Kish]

:haley: How are you thinking you'll deal with your father when this is over, Elan?
:elan: Considering I'm already higher level than he is, I'm thinking "step on him."

[zimmerwald1915]

In D&D, you can't go up more than one level from any given encounter, unless they've changed that rule.
This I know. But if someone is determined to believe Elan leveled up six times from roleplaying and story XP, they'll either be determined enough to concoct a scenario where the rules would allow it, or they will no longer care whether the rules allow it.

[Reddish Mage]

Then why did he use a holy symbol?

It's not a holy symbol, it's a hand puppet.

[BannedInSchool]

It's not a holy symbol, it's a hand puppet.

Smite the infidel!

[DaggerPen]

:haley: How are you thinking you'll deal with your father when this is over, Elan?
:elan: Considering I'm already higher level than he is, I'm thinking "step on him."

I just wanted you to know that I completely lost it at this.

[sengmeng]

Smite the infidel!
Smite! Smite!

Also: shun the nonbeliever.
(Shun!) (Shun!)

[Oko and Qailee]

Ooh, got a new comic for my birthday! (which was yesterday, I had not checked the site)

Happy Birthday!

[Kish]

I just wanted you to know that I completely lost it at this.
Glad to hear it.

[Everyl]

It's not a holy symbol, it's a hand puppet.

You're right, but for the wrong reason. A symbol is a thing that represents something else; a holy symbol is a thing that represents a god. Since Elan is directly invoking Banjo, who is physically present, there is no symbol involved.

It's not a holy symbol, it's the god himself.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

You're right, but for the wrong reason. A symbol is a thing that represents something else; a holy symbol is a thing that represents a god. Since Elan is directly invoking Banjo, who is physically present, there is no symbol involved.

It's not a holy symbol, it's the god himself.

Perhaps Elan's puppet of Banjo is merely a representation of Banjo, who exists elsewhere in his true form.
Or perhaps Banjo is not a god...

[Reddish Mage]

You're right, but for the wrong reason. A symbol is a thing that represents something else; a holy symbol is a thing that represents a god. Since Elan is directly invoking Banjo, who is physically present, there is no symbol involved.

It's not a holy symbol, it's the god himself.

You're right but I'm also right, its a hand puppet and also a god.

[BannedInSchool]

Could Banjo create a hand so large he could not fit on it?

[Amphiox]

Note that if Elan really had gained a level or two in Cleric, then he'll now be triple classed, or whatever the term is for having 3 classes.

Which would be the same number as Nale!

[Porthos]

:haley: How are you thinking you'll deal with your father when this is over, Elan?
:elan: Considering I'm already higher level than he is, I'm thinking "step on him."

Great. Now I'm thinking about :elan: shouting "I have the high ground" as he does it. :smallamused:

[Teapot Salty]

Huh, toned down the swearing, wonder why.
Love the new art, was skeptic at first but this is so great.

[UristMcRandom]

Just to toss in my two cents on plot direction:

The Mechane is badly damaged, and the Order find themselves in Dwarven Lands for repairs, fulfilling Durkon's prophecies and allowing Hel to play Big Bad for awhile through her High Priest.

[sengmeng]

Huh, toned down the swearing, wonder why.
Love the new art, was skeptic at first but this is so great.

I don't think there was ever so much swearing in this comic that a single strip without is remarkable.

[Teapot Salty]

I don't think there was ever so much swearing in this comic that a single strip without is remarkable.

True, but it seems deliberately replacing it. I honestly don't care if it "goes clean" but I just find it odd.

[zimmerwald1915]

True, but it seems deliberately replacing it. I honestly don't care if it "goes clean" but I just find it odd.
What on Earth are you talking about? "Crud" and "darn" have popped up throughout the comic's run. Said comic has hovered mostly around PG-13 as far as language goes.

[Keltest]

True, but it seems deliberately replacing it. I honestly don't care if it "goes clean" but I just find it odd.

Theres never been much (if any) frivolous swearing in the comic. Its usually saved to give it bigger impact when it does come out. Plus, IIRC the Giant said he tries to hold off on it because he knows that kids sometimes read the comic.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

True, but it seems deliberately replacing it. I honestly don't care if it "goes clean" but I just find it odd.

I haven't noticed anything that would be considered "replacing" any language. It's always been pretty much like this. Perhaps it's the contrast from "Thor's nuts"? :smallconfused:

[Kish]

It's a new forum rule with the forum change. For the remainder of the comic's run, every strip's main discussion thread must include an argument over the level of profanity in the comic.

[Theory]

One thought about the art upgrades - is there any chance the upgrades are plot-relevant? As in: the better art is actually a sign of corruption from the gates, making things more and more "real"? Just a weird thought I had looking at this.

I agree. I hadn't thought of the "corruption from the gate" angle, though. The premise of the entire comic seems to have a meta-storytelling element. For example, why do we never hear about the DM (or GM, as per your taste)? Granted there are some tribute pages, but even taken as cannon they don't show much of a PC's point of view for their world's DM.

Obviously the DM is the Giant, and it is often tacky to personify the DM within the story, so that maybe the answer to that there.

Still, as they get closer to the truth, I wold not be surprised if their "resolution" improves, while still leaving them with a Base 6 system.

[Ionathus]

Just to toss in my two cents on plot direction:

The Mechane is badly damaged, and the Order find themselves in Dwarven Lands for repairs, fulfilling Durkon's prophecies and allowing Hel to play Big Bad for awhile through her High Priest.

I figure they aren't at the Dwarven Lands yet: Julio seems to have said somewhere in the 6-8 range, and we just saw the HPoH say "three days ago you were fighting me on stuff like Roy's name" to Durkon, and since I believe Durkon would have begun fighting HPoH the second he took over, that means that we're probably still at least 3 days away by my broken theoretical math. My expectation would be that, if they have to land, they might wind up in Elven Lands for a bit...which could be a nice bit of flavor. Of course, they may actually just get the thing fixed on the fly.

Who knows, really. But regardless, in the long term the prediction that you described is, I would dare to say, pretty much the accepted expectation for this coming book.

[ratfox]

I'm disappointed. Nobody has picked on my comment that Bandana has managed to save the man's life.

Panel seven.

[Sutremaine]

I'm a little concerned that posters comming favourably on Haley's newly-drawn outfit are using sexist language to do so.

[Kish]

I'm a little concerned that posters comming favourably on Haley's newly-drawn outfit are using sexist language to do so.
Thank you.

[BannedInSchool]

<Nigel Tufnel> What's wrong with being sexy? </Nigel Tufnel>

[DaggerPen]

I'm a little concerned that posters comming favourably on Haley's newly-drawn outfit are using sexist language to do so.

Agreed. I find it frustrating how many female characters tend to dress in impractically skimpy armor across media, and I think her new outfit is cool, but... yeah.

[oppyu]

I'm a little concerned that posters comming favourably on Haley's newly-drawn outfit are using sexist language to do so.
What in particular are you referring to? I haven't noticed anyone in this thread being weirdly gross about stick figures.

[Keltest]

What in particular are you referring to? I haven't noticed anyone in this thread being weirdly gross about stick figures.

nor I. In this thread anyway.

[zimmerwald1915]

nor I. In this thread anyway.
Yeah, there's a whole other thread for that.

[Codex]

Huh, toned down the swearing, wonder why.
Love the new art, was skeptic at first but this is so great.

The swearing wasn't toned down. Elan doesn't swear much, and apparently neither does Bandana.

[Shining Wrath]

I would like to just note in passing, by the way, that Elan is one bizarre fellow.

If you just now noticed that, I must cast grave aspersions upon your claims to be a psion. GRAVE aspersions.

[NerdyKris]

True, but it seems deliberately replacing it. I honestly don't care if it "goes clean" but I just find it odd.

We're talking about one instance of Crud. From a character who already has said "heck" multiple times. I think what you're seeing is "Bandanna doesn't swear", not "The comic is toning down swears". Not that it was R rated to begin with.

[Shining Wrath]

That's not really "meta" though - changing an in-story depiction of another era based on the narrator's traits is pretty tried-and-true. Beauty and the Beast does it with the stained glass window intro. Having the world actually change its depiction as a serious plot point of reality unhinging is more a post-modern thing.



Yeah, I've said the same.

Wizard of Oz.

[Kish]

If you just now noticed that, I must cast grave aspersions upon your claims to be a psion. GRAVE aspersions.
I suspect psions generally prefer to avoid any contact with Elan's mind.

[Shining Wrath]

I think youre misusing the term rules-lawyering. That implies that the person is trying to get away with something unreasonable by exploiting a technicality in the rules. This is just somewhat counter-intuitive, and its actually something I would reward (in the form of bonus xp, for example) for pulling off.

My dragonfire adept put out a fire on board a ship with his frost breath. DM ruled that it worked immediately.

[Keltest]

I suspect psions generally prefer to avoid any contact with Elan's mind.

Id imagine theyd either avoid it like the plague or consider it a mental hot tub. After all, how many people do you know who LIKE listening to so many complicated thoughts?

[Shining Wrath]

... SNIP ...
Since the Orcs are worshipping Chuckles, and it is a key feature of Chuckles' mythology that Banjo is his rival, all the direct worship they give Chuckles should secondarily reflect on Banjo too, without need for direct worship of him...
... SNIP ...

Does this make Banjo the nemesis of Chuckles, so he gets free levels as Chuckles levels?

[Keltest]

Does this make Banjo the nemesis of Chuckles, so he gets free levels as Chuckles levels?

GIGGLES (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0561.html) you blasphemer! GIGGLES!



Speaking of Elan, I feel like were due for a new "Inspire Competence" joke any page now. Get to show off that shiny lute.

[Shoelessgdowar]

He's the Rory Williams-Pond of OOTS!

Hmmmm, sort of works, that makes Haley into Amelia Pond.... but then Who is the Doctor.
(Heck, Elan's father even has a thing for Dinosaurs, just like Brian Williams)

Darn it, now I'm trying to think of more similarities and considering Elan and Haley's child from the future named Brook Bardspell or something like that coming back to help them fight Xykon and the Scribble.


Wizard of Oz.

That had less to do with plot motivated and more to do with "Look, we can now put color in film, pay us another nickle a ticket, cause color movies are twice as pricey to make as old black & white ones." capitalism motivated.

[DaggerPen]

Who is the Doctor.

I don't believe that's quite the title... :smalltongue:

[sengmeng]

I don't believe that's quite the title... :smalltongue:

It's the Chinese translated version.

[Tragak]

but then Who is the Doctor. :smallconfused: … I'm sorry, we're revoking your internet license. (https://xkcd.com/410/)


(Heck, Elan's father even has a thing for Dinosaurs, just like Brian Williams POND) OH, never mind, that is good! :smallbiggrin:
...Fixed, BTW :smallwink:


Darn it, now I'm trying to think of more similarities and considering Elan and Haley's child from the future named Brook Bardspell or something like that coming back to help them fight Xykon and the Scribble. Spoilers :smalltongue:

… So would this make Roy OOTS's The Doctor analogue as the only one who's died and come back so far? Or Vaarsuvius for ending the Time Black Dragon War so cataclysmically (which would then make Tiamat into the comic's Davros)? I guess Roy's resurrection could make him the Jack Harkness instead of the The Doctor (which would then make Celia into 10% of the intelligent life in the universe).

[pwning doodes]

If anyone were to be Captain Jack Harkness, it would be Belkar, the Sexy Shoeless God of War!

[zimmerwald1915]

If anyone were to be Captain Jack Harkness, it would be Belkar, the Sexy Shoeless God of War!
That's not fair to Belkar! He never murdered a small child! On-panel.