Build Warblade D&D3.5

[Vodahim]

Hi everyone.
Before I ask my questions for you, i need to explain one important thing : I'm French. So, sorry for my spelling mistake and please, answer me just as you answer a child ^^

Now, I'm here because I need help to build a Warblade.
For that :

- I have access to all officials rules in 3.5. (But I need to prove my sources)
- At the table, guys optimize everything (almost).
- We start at lvl 5.

You can change everything of my current (and incomplete) build but if you can do something good with the first idea, it's okay too ^^

I think make a Warblade 20 (for the two stances). And the RP : I try to become as powerful as a god especially with weapons. (I'm full of myself and conviced that my skill is the best).

- I don't manage to choose between THF or TWF but I love the idea of a giant katana or two scimitar.
- Race : Human : feat and +1 Expertise. But I don't know nothing about race apart from Player's handbook I
- For martial discipline I see Iron heart + Diamond mind for THF or Diamond Mind + Tiger Claw for TWF
- Feats : I need so many feats for both style but I'm sure that 75% isn't a good choice. Especially "dodge", "mobility" and "Spring Attack" (not sure of the trad. In French it's "esquive", "souplesse du serpent", "attaque éclair").
- Items : A "animated" shield ; vicious weapons (+ feat "sully soul" : negative energy heal you, positive hit you just like an undead) but this combo is maybe insane...).
-------- I don't know how to choose after. Dexterity gloves and Strenght belt i think... With TWF and THF...

For the team, I need to be a strong melee fighter (with a high amount of damages).

That's all (I think...).
If you need more information or anything else, I'll be glad to answer.

[Shining Wrath]

Monsieur, votre anglais c'est mielure mon francais, n'est pas? :smallsmile:

Anyway ...

20 levels of Warblade is a good build. Playing a Warblade as cocky and very sure of himself is by the book. In America, we have a saying that "It's not bragging if you can back it up" - that is, you aren't vain, you really are that good.

Now - you want to be the damage-dealing melee fighter. For that, you probably want the two-handed weapon plus the Power Attack feat. Depending on your party, you either want a greatsword, a great axe, or a reach weapon (glaive, halberd). You have good ideas with the Iron Heart and Diamond Mind disciplines. You get a good Fort save, and you get some help from class features on the Reflex save, but you will absolutely need the DM maneuver Moment of Perfect Mind, which lets you substitute a Concentration roll for a Will save - and then make certain you put full skill points into Concentration.

A good feat is Adaptive Style, which will let you switch your readied maneuvers (and, in the process, recover them - less important for the Warblade than the Swordsage, but the in-combat switching can be important at higher levels).

I don't know if you want to focus on in-combat healing for your feats and weapons; normally the optimal thing to do is take the enemy down faster rather than propping yourself up.

For stances, Punishing Stance is a good one. If you can dip Tiger Claw (remember you'll get to trade maneuvers for other maneuvers every even level from 4 on), Hunter's Scent is a good stance; Scent is very useful.

Edit: you'll get class features tied to your Intelligence. Don't dump INT. You can dump Charisma safely. STR, CON, DEX, INT, WIS, CHA.

[JeminiZero]

For race, one of the big problems with Warblades is their inability to fly. Therefore, I usually recommend taking one of the natural flyer races. Either Raptoran (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050106b) or Dragonborn with Wings aspect (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b).

Either of these can also be combined with Leading the Charge Stance (add Initiator Level to Charge damage), and Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian (pounce: make full attack at end of charge) to make a fairly strong dive attacker (dive attack is a charge doubles damage from piercing weapon). So when you make a dive attack charge with a piercing weapon, pounce lets you make a full attack, Leading the Charge adds IL to each hit, and dive attack doubles all the damage.

[Bonzai]

The most damage that I have done with Tome of Battle, is with Greater Insightful strike from the diamond mind school. You make a concentration check and whatever the results turn out to be you double it to get your damage. There are many how to guides on maxing out skill checks. It's not hard to get your modifier into the 80's for 200ish damage from one strike. Take the swift recovery feat so that you can use it twice in a row, and follow it up with a regular insightful strike if whatever your fighting is still standing. Greater Insightful strike is a level 6 maneuver, but it is on par or potentially better than the level 9 maneuvers. The lesser one is a level 3 maneuver, so it gives you some intermediate damage potential until you get your lvl 6 maneuvers. Best of all, it is not strength dependent, so whether you hit normally, use weapon finesse, or some other equivalent stat, it doesn't matter.

[Red Fel]

First off, good decision taking Warblade to 20. Warblade is an excellent class, and its capstone is worth the wait. I admit that taking Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian would be very, very nice (Pounce is amazing), but Warblade 20 is pretty excellent too.

I would advise going with a two-handed weapon, instead of using two-weapon fighting. For one thing, THW requires fewer feats, which lets you focus on other matters. For another, when you run the numbers, you tend to hit more frequently, and hit for more damage.

I agree that Power Attack is good. I would take that a step further, and suggest the Shock Trooper feat. There's that lovely piece in the third part of the feat - on a charge, you can assign the attack penalty from Power Attack to your AC instead. So you can charge, perform a full Power Attack, and take no penalty to your attack roll. (And if you managed to take Pounce, it would blend with Shock Trooper so very, very beautifully.)

I second the idea of getting wings. I happen to think Dragonborn is an excellent method of getting there. If you don't mind the healing penalty, Dragonborn Warforged is an incredible base. Between the race and the template, you'll have +4 Constitution, and a host of immunities. (You will have penalties to Charisma, Wisdom and Dexterity, but as a Warblade you should be fine.) Also, you will be a shiny robo-dragon. For justice.

I would also suggest you take the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat. It doesn't matter which one you take, since you can switch it out freely as a Warblade. Exotic weapons tend to be just a step better than regular ones, either because they have useful functions or deal more damage, and being able to use any you might find is a big plus.

Animated shield is a definitely good idea. Also, get spiked gauntlets, with Warning and Eager on them. One can never be too careful.

I also agree with Punishing Stance. It's the stance that keeps on giving as you level up. With regard to maneuvers generally, focus on a few disciplines you can ride to the end. Iron Heart is fun, for Iron Heart Surge among others; Diamond Mind for those save-counters (and perhaps Time Stands Still); and White Raven's value need not be restated. Note that if you go with Warforged Dragonborn, your Constitution will be incredible; with maxed Concentration, your Diamond Mind strikes will be outrageous.

[Vodahim]

@ JeminiZero : Thanks for the Dragonborn race. I always want to have Wings with one of my char.
But just one question, wings are always visible or I can hidding them (I hope isn't their ^^). (They are retractable maybe ?)

@Shining Wrath :

- I see "Adaptive Style" but a "Warblade can recover all expended manoeuvers with a single swift action" (+ a simple attack or a simple action and can't engage maneuvers or stances). Or I miss something (I have the ToB in english too =p)

- I don't focus on in-combat healing. Sully soul + Vicious weapons are just an idea that I find with a friend.

- And exactly I look for feats who can optimize the THF (or TWF). Because the other players take their feats in all books and the last scenario, I just watch them make all the damage/control on the map. (I make 28dmg in one round when they make same but in one attack...)
And maybe (but not the priority) item who can make the build more stronger.

But all of this with the explanations for help me to understand how the build work.

(The goal being I don't need to ask again for this type of character ^^)

For the example :
- I take Weapon focus, Greater Weapon focus, etc but I read that isn't a good choice (for a THF of course).
- For TWF, I think pick Two-Weapons Fighting and two other. With Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack. But the last third are bad choices (apparently) particulary in the perspective of an optimization.
- For Magic Item, I don't know anything apart from the enhancement bonus to stats and "animation" for the shield ^^.

For a TWF I think focus Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind. And mix with Iron Heart if I choose the THF way.

(I hope that it's more obvious now...)

EDIT : I can't read the two other post right now ^^ I come back just in a few minutes for learn all of this ^^.

[Shining Wrath]

For race, one of the big problems with Warblades is their inability to fly. Therefore, I usually recommend taking one of the natural flyer races. Either Raptoran (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050106b) or Dragonborn with Wings aspect (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b).

Either of these can also be combined with Leading the Charge Stance (add Initiator Level to Charge damage), and Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian (pounce: make full attack at end of charge) to make a fairly strong dive attacker (dive attack is a charge doubles damage from piercing weapon). So when you make a dive attack charge with a piercing weapon, pounce lets you make a full attack, Leading the Charge adds IL to each hit, and dive attack doubles all the damage.

Normally Spirit Lion Totem Barb is a good dip, but OP expressed interest in Warblade L20 capstone. Also, by picking up some Tiger Claw maneuvers he can take the IL 5 or IL 6 (forget which) TC maneuver Pouncing Charge, which is the same thing but doesn't cost any Initiator Levels or Warblade levels. Desire for capstone also rules out races with a level adjustment.

[jjcrpntr]

Warblade 20 is awesome though I have to say my twf warblade with pounce is incredibly fun. But if you're trying to optimize listen to the other guys in this thread more. I tend to play what's fun and not always optimized.

Edit: One nice thing, my group has several games running at the same time. One of them is a high level campaign where we all start at level 15. It's really only for when we only have 2 people (and dm) available for play. My twf warblade with keen/vampiric scimitars was basically unkillable. I'd take some hits but between all my hits and the d6 healing from vampiric i healed up just about every fight round. Really enjoyed it.

[Shining Wrath]

@ JeminiZero : Thanks for the Dragonborn race. I always want to have Wings with one of my char.
But just one question, wings are always visible or I can hidding them (I hope isn't their ^^). (They are retractable maybe ?)

@Shining Wrath :

- I see "Adaptive Style" but a "Warblade can recover all expended manoeuvers with a single swift action" (+ a simple attack or a simple action and can't engage maneuvers or stances). Or I miss something (I have the ToB in english too =p)

- I don't focus on in-combat healing. Sully soul + Vicious weapons are just an idea that I find with a friend.

- And exactly I look for feats who can optimize the THF (or TWF). Because the other players take their feats in all books and the last scenario, I just watch them make all the damage/control on the map. (I make 28dmg in one round when they make same but in one attack...)
And maybe (but not the priority) item who can make the build more stronger.

But all of this with the explanations for help me to understand how the build work.

(The goal being I don't need to ask again for this type of character ^^)

For the example :
- I take Weapon focus, Greater Weapon focus, etc but I read that isn't a good choice (for a THF of course).
- For TWF, I think pick Two-Weapons Fighting and two other. With Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack. But the last third are bad choices (apparently) particulary in the perspective of an optimization.
- For Magic Item, I don't know anything apart from the enhancement bonus to stats and "animation" for the shield ^^.

For a TWF I think focus Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind. And mix with Iron Heart if I choose the THF way.

(I hope that it's more obvious now...)

EDIT : I can't read the two other post right now ^^ I come back just in a few minutes for learn all of this ^^.

What Adaptive Style gives a Warblade is that you know more maneuvers than you can ready after level 1. If you discover you really need a maneuver known but not readied, you can use AS to switch them around. For example, my last Warblade knew Iron Heart Surge but didn't ready it. If I were ever hit with a persistent de-buff, I could use AS to swap in IHS, then use IHS to get rid of it. It meant a one-round delay getting rid of the problem, but it let me ready more offensive maneuvers.

With Power Attack combined with the Diamond Mind maneuver Emerald Razor Blade you will start doing lots of damage. Emerald Razor Blade lets you attack the enemies' TOUCH armor class, which for a lot of big enemies is 10 (or less). So you put full BAB into Power Attack, double it for using a two-handed weapon, and hit for lots of damage.

[Vodahim]

@Bonzai : I don't know how to up Concentration to 80 but if this really work, it's a good advise that we have here. ^^

@Red fel : Pounce = full attack after a charge right ? Only a Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian can have this ?
- For the Dragonborn : +2 Con (and where are the otehr +2 with the template ???)
- Thanks for the explanation of Shock Trooper, I definitively take this in mu build ^^
- For Exotic Weapon Proficiency i don't know. I love Katana (really really love this beautiful weapon and not just IG) and I never spend one feat for learn how to use it.
----- Other weapon that I want is the Spiked Chain but I don't know how use it with efficiency...

- Why Spike Gauntlet ? And what is Warning and Eager ??? I don't find the french version...

@ Shining Wrath : IL 5 ^^ I find this "Pouncing Charge"
Adaptative Style : That's really good indeed.

@jjcnpntr : I play for the RP first too ^^ (Take Leadership and never take on a comrade =p Just use the servant for a little guild).
And the combo with sully soul is OP with my friend who play Deadknight (and have an aura who hit in aoe with negative energy ^^).


@for all :

When a maneuver say : "As part of this maneuver, make a single melee attack against an opponent." I just can make one simple melee attack or I can use Power Attack ? And too, can I make a full attack but maneuver is apply just for the first of them ?

EDIT : What is the book where Dragonborn are describe ?

[Red Fel]

@Red fel : Pounce = full attack after a charge right ? Only a Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian can have this ?

Spirit Lion Totem is an alternate class feature for the Barbarian, that exchanges the Fast Movement feature Barbarians get at level 1 for the Pounce feature. You're correct, Pounce allows you to make a full attack after a charge. There are other ways to get Pounce; most of them involve taking levels of a class. One method is to choose the Catfolk race; they can take a feat, Catfolk Pounce, that lets them use Pounce. Another, as Shining Wrath suggested, is the Pouncing Charge maneuver.


- For the Dragonborn : +2 Con (and where are the otehr +2 with the template ???)

Dragonborn gets +2 Constitution. Dragonborn, however, is a template - it is something you add on top of an existing race. In the example I gave, I suggested using the Warforged race, with the Dragonborn template on top of it. Warforged also get +2 Constitution, adding up to a total of +4.


- Thanks for the explanation of Shock Trooper, I definitively take this in mu build ^^

I know, right? :smallsmile:


- For Exotic Weapon Proficiency i don't know. I love Katana (really really love this beautiful weapon and not just IG) and I never spend one feat for learn how to use it.

Exotic Weapon Proficiency is an option, like I said, it's not something you have to take. But the advantage for a Warblade is that you only have to take it once. Warblades get the Weapon Aptitude class ability. If you train with your weapon, you can change the weapon on any feat, such as Weapon Focus or Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Today you could have Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain), tomorrow (Dwarven Urgosh), the next day whatever you like. That's why I suggested it.


----- Other weapon that I want is the Spiked Chain but I don't know how use it with efficiency...

Basically, Spiked Chain is your all-in-one weapon. It gives you reach, meaning you can attack enemies at 10 feet range instead of just 5 feet. But it can also be used against adjacent enemies, whereas most reach weapons cannot. It can be used to trip enemies, and if someone tries to trip you during the attempt you can avoid it by simply dropping the weapon. It also gives you a bonus to Disarm. In short, it's pretty great.

Basically, for best use, attack enemies near and far away while making Trip attempts. If you succeed, your enemy is Prone, and you can hurt them a lot.


- Why Spike Gauntlet ? And what is Warning and Eager ??? I don't find the french version... A Spiked Gauntlet is useful because you can't be disarmed of it, and if you decide to use a reach weapon - for example, a Lance - you can still attack enemies close to you.

Warning and Eager are enhancements that can be placed on weapons. These two are particularly useful. Warning gives you Uncanny Dodge - and, in retrospect, since Warblades already get that, it was a silly suggestion. Ignore that one. Eager, however, gives you +2 to Initiative, which is always useful. Another useful one is Smoking, which creates a cloud of gas that gives you partial concealment (enemies have a chance to miss with their attacks).


@for all :

When a maneuver say : "As part of this maneuver, make a single melee attack against an opponent." I just can make one simple melee attack or I can use Power Attack ? And too, can I make a full attack but maneuver is apply just for the first of them ?

According to the language of Power Attack, you activate the feat before you take any other actions. So I believe you can Power Attack with a maneuver. If the maneuver says "a single melee attack," however, you make only one attack, not your full attack.


EDIT : What is the book where Dragonborn are describe ?

Races of the Dragon. That book has a lot of fun stuff in it. A brief explanation can also be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b).

[Vodahim]

Where can I find Eager, Warning and other special properties ?
(Don't find in the Master's Guide, or don't find the right traduction in French).

Warforged is a Race ? So, Dragonborn don't delete every bonus of ex-race ?

[Red Fel]

Where can I find Eager, Warning and other special properties ?
(Don't find in the Master's Guide, or don't find the right traduction in French).

I believe that Eager was in the Arms and Equipment Guide, Warning in Magic of Faerun, and Smoking in Lords of Darkness. You could also check the Magic Item Compendium and Spell Compendium for more options.


Warforged is a Race ? So, Dragonborn don't delete every bonus of ex-race ?

Dragonborn deletes some bonuses, but not all. You lose things like bonus feats or special abilities. You keep things like type and subtype, and any ability modifiers (like Con, Dex, etc.).

Warforged have several things to them, but most of them come from their Living Construct subtype. Since Dragonborn keep the subtype, a Warforged Dragonborn keeps any abilities that come from being a Living Construct, including various immunities. Since Dragonborn also keeps any ability modifiers, Warforged Dragonborn keep their Con bonus (as well as Dex and Wis penalties).

[Vodahim]

Well, after a discussion with my MD
("- Can i choose a race of Eberron ?
- No.
- Why ?
- Because I say no.")

I can forget the Warforged.
And Dragonborn too...

So we have all rights just if we have boobs...

Anyway, thanks you all for help me so fast. I go try to make an acceptable build and I come here again for take your advise.

Just a last little thing. How can I have win the capacity to fly without race ? (in such a way as to be permanently / easy to use).

[Metahuman1]

There are Magic Items that grant it, but many of them are expensive.

A though would be to take the leadership feat and make your cohort a spell caster, such as a sorcerer, wizard, or a cleric with the travel domain, that knows the fly spell. Or alternatively, make it a species that get's flight and is size category large (I'm sure this board can make a few suggestions here.), and ride it as a mount into battle. It flies, carrying you, and since you control the cohort, it can conveniently fly were you need it too when you need it too.

Regarding the suggestion for the Warning and Eager Properties, they are in the Magic Item Compendium.



As for a race, I suggest looking at two books. The first one is "The Races of Stone." In it, there is a Race called the Goliath that get's a +4 to Strength, a +2 to Con, a couple of small skill bonuses, and a special ability called powerful build. Powerful build is very nice. It let's you use weapons one size category larger then you are (At medium size you could use Large Weapons, for example.), be treated as Large when ever you are making, or someone is making against you, a Trip, Disarm, Grapple, Bulls Rush or Over Run attempt (That can be very handy when a monster is trying swallow you or the bad guy is trying to knock you off the bridge or knock your sword into the volcano to make it harder for you to defend yourself. ;) And if you decide you want to use it offensively, it's very handy for helping to knock an opponent on it's back to make them easier to hit, shoving them off the cliff, or Pinning them to the wall for the rest of your party to hammer them with attacks.) and is generally a very good ability.

The race has a level Adjustment of 1, causing you to gain experience more slowly and loose a class level for using a race considered stronger then the one's in the players handbook.


The other book you want to look at is called "Unearthed Arcana.", and has lots of alternative rules. One of them allows you to give up a chuck of experience points in a one time transaction at certain levels to remove a certain amount of Level Adjustment form a race or a template. Relevant to you, at level 3, you may spend 1,000 experience points to remove a level adjustment of 1 forever. You would start the game at level 4 this way if you played a Goliath, but gain Experience normally and have 1,000 experience to go before you got to level five. Because of the rules for challenge ratings and Experience Point awards in the Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide and Monster Manual (the core rule books for the system.), you should catch up to the party fairly quickly, and then advance at there pace.

That would be my suggestion for a race and for how to get flight in this case.

[Vodahim]

We can't choose a race with a level adjustment.
But for the same style there is half-giant. If i don't talk non sense, this can choose the size medium or large depending on what is the best.
- Example : For a discretion rolls => medium
---------- For fight with weapons => large
And if I not bury my head in the sand (I hope this is the right expression ^^) it's a really good Idea. But I always oppose the gain of a race with one free feat...


And one other thing : Scent is really a usefull ability ? Or not ?
How to use it ?

EDIT : Iron will aura : While you are in any Iron Heart stance, adjacent allies gain a +2 morale bonus on saving throws.
allies = me and allies or just them ? Adjacent isn't a to strong restriction ?

EDIT 2 : I don't find how to attain 80 in Concentration...

[Feint's End]

Warning gives you Uncanny Dodge

As far as I know Warning gives you a +5 bonus to Initiative. At least the one from MIC. Which version are you looking at?

[Shining Wrath]

One thing about Warblade is you get to choose bonus feats at levels 5, 9, 13, and 17, from a list supplied in the class description. You don't want to take one of those as a regular feat if you can avoid it.

Among those feats are Improved Initiative and Blindfighting. I suggest getting them early. Combat Reflexes might be good if you have high dexterity (especially if you're tripping people).

Ironheart Aura is usually thought of as a poor feat, but it allows you to take a good one: Stormguard Warrior. Stormguard Warrior will work with Combat Reflexes if you go a higher-dex route.

[Metahuman1]

Unfortunately Half Giant is also a race with a Level Adjustment of 1.

Another group of feats to think about are in Complete Arcane. Mage Slayer, and the feats that require it forming a chain, are very good because they get you past a lot of the defenses used by monsters with spell like ability's, spell casting levels, or None Player Characters with spell casting, making it easier to kill them. This is especially good because these defenses and ability's are very powerful when used against you, and the higher level you get too, the more common they become.

[Vodahim]

I think take Quick Draw ; Improved Initiative ; Blade meditation (Diamond Mind : +1 attack rolls and +2 Concentration) ; and after Iron heart Aura (but maybe not) or Meditation Blade : Tiger Claw or Combat Reflexe.

Blindfighting nope. With Hearing the air (stance) I gain Blind Sense. It's better than blindfighting and activate or disable when I want.

@Metahuman1 : Well, this is too bad, and we miss a point of the rules...
For the Complete Arcane : i don't really like Mage Slayer, and I find other feats (with mage slayer) are too expansive... But it's also a good idea.

[Eldaran]

Hi everyone.
vicious weapons (+ feat "sully soul" : negative energy heal you, positive hit you just like an undead) but this combo is maybe insane...).


Just wanted to point out that vicious is not negative energy damage, so it won't heal you with sully soul (in English it's called Tomb Tained Soul).

[gorfnab]

Here are links to two handbooks for Warblade
Warblade Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?193992-Elfin-s-Masters-of-the-Sword-A-Warblade-s-Handbook)
Warblade Handbook (http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4408.0)

Quick Draw as a feat is okay (you could possibly take it as one of the bonus Warblade feats) however you can buy the ability by getting the Eager (Magic Item Compendium, +1 equivalent) weapon enhancement or a Crystal of Return, Least (MIC, only 300gp!).

Blade Meditation is not the greatest. It's a strange mesh of Weapon Specialization, Skill Focus, and Spell Focus. When you think about it in the long run is +1 damage, +2 bonus to one skill, and +1 to the save DC of some maneuvers really worth it? Unless you're focused on one discipline and a specific skill, you would be almost wasting a feat.

There are three types of Warblade builds I would recommend.
Two Handed Weapon - a Greatsword or something similar, Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Combat Brute, Brutal Strike (if using a bludgeoning weapon)
Tripper - a Guisarme or Spiked Chain (or the one-handed version Kusari-Gama), Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Martial Study: Insert Devoted Spirit Maneuver Here (Foehammer or Crusader's Strike are decent option), Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades, Combat Reflexes, Stand Still
Crit Fisher - Aptitude Kukris, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Critical, Lightning Maces,
For all three: Stormguard Warrior + Robilar's Gambit + Combat Reflexes = :smallsmile:

[Vodahim]

@Eldaran, Thanks for the tras, and it's disruptive energy, not negative you're right...

@Gorfnab : I see this Warblade Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?176968-Masters-of-the-Sword-A-Warblade-s-Handbook-Under-Construction) (look like your first link) but I don't understand soma point of view.

- I choose the THF for my Warblade.
- I have'nt access to Devoted Spirit maneuvers with a Warblade.
- For the THF : In French, manual tell us that a bastard sword can use like a War Weapon (and not an Exotic Weapon) if I use it with Two Hand. So I don't really need EWP if I play a THF char, right ?
- For Brutal Strike : a bludgeoning weapon = a weapon with the property "blunt" ? Like a hammer ? It's pretty good but I prefer the swords (or the axes ^^) But I'll think of that for a priest.
- If I charge with a THW, and make a Power Attack with -5 for the attack rolls : = +10 damages. With Leap Attack = +20 damages right ? But with Combar Brutal it's X3 so +15 damages, right ?
--- So, Combat Brute (without the charge part (and the rush part, I don't like play with this)) I can attack after a destruction. So this feat is always usefull if I put Improved Destruction on my feats list ?
(Edit : Improved Destruction is a prerequired feat for Combat Brutal)

- What about "moving target" ?
(Edit : I need Dodge and Mobility... And I can't spend three feats for this.)

- I don't understand how to work Robilar's Gambit... For me is a very dangerous feat. But if someone can explain me.
- If someone explain me how to use Stormguard Warrior too (^^').
--- I think use Combat Rythm if an ennemy who wear a big armor.
--- Fighting the horde for upgrade my AC and upgrade my attack rolls front of mass.
--- For Channel the Storm : I don't know how to make an ennemy do action who trigger an opportunity attack.
-----I think if I can have a lot of opportunity attack, I can combine Channel the Storm and Combat Rythm.

(We are agree with this fact : I haven't more opportunity attack than my Dexterity modificator, right ?)

EDIT : Monkey Grip (the feat for use a large weapon when your size is medium) is helpful for a destruction ? There is a +4 bonus for a large size but I need to be large or this work if the weapon are large ?
EDIT II : Blade Meditation (Diamond Mind) is for up Concentration (and always better than weapon focus ^^). I take him for upgrade damages cause by the Diamond Mind maneuver who work with Concentration.
But I don't find any guide for How to maxed the skill Concentration...

[Shining Wrath]

Robiliar's Gambit is dangerous, no doubt. You are betting your life that the enemy, attacking at +4, will do less damage proportional to your HP than you will do to theirs.

Example
Your Warblade at 12th level might have 12 + 11*6.5 + 12*Con bonus of 3 = 120 HP. Suppose you are fighting a 12th level Rogue. The Rogue has 6 + 3.5*11 + 12*Con bonus of 1 = 57 HP. The Rogue is probably strongly tempted to Tumble away because going toe-to-toe with a Warblade is extremely unhealthy for Rogues.

But you drop into Robiliar's Gambit, and the Rogue foolishly takes the bait. His BAB is 9, +4 is 13. He gets two attacks. If you both have an AC of 25, and +5 to hit from STR (you) or DEX(him: Weapon Finesse) and another +2 from weapons, his total attack bonus is 13 + 5 + 2 = 20, and yours is 19.

He'll hit you on a 5, so 80% of the time with first attack, and 55% of the time with his second. Each attack will do shortsword + STR + 2 (weapon bonus) or (d6 + 1 + 2) = 6.5 points of damage. So his expected damage per round is a little less than 9 of your 120 HP.

You will hit him on a 6, so 75% of the time with your first attack, and 50% of the time with the second. Each attack will do greatsword + STR + 2 (weapon bonus) or (2d6 + 5 + 2) = 14 points of damage. So your expected damage per round is 17.5 HP of his 57.

Each round, then, he'll get 1/13th of your HP, and you'll get a little less than 1/3rd of his.

A smart Rogue won't take the bait.

But two rogues might. Or three. If the DM is playing his Rogues as "smart but not knowing all about Warblades", they won't realize you can't be flanked for at least one round (Improved Uncanny Dodge for the win!). So the three Rogues will try to flank you, fail, and do 27 points of damage to you (ouch) while you do 17.5 to each of them. And then you get YOUR turn. And if you've got Mithral Tornado readied, you attack each of them twice at full BAB for an expected 21 HP each. After one round, you're down 27, they are each down 38.

So that's why the Gambit works. You are drawing puny inferior fighters in close to you so you can use your superior maneuvers and great strength to inflict damage on them, and you have so many HP that your losses mean almost nothing compared to theirs.

[Bonzai]

@Bonzai : I don't know how to up Concentration to 80 but if this really work, it's a good advise that we have here. ^^


Start with 18 con, +5 skill raises, +6 from enhancement bonus from an item, and +5 from a manual gives you a Con score of 34 for a +12 bonus.

Third Eye of Concentration from Psionic Handbook or Magic Item Compendium gives a +10 Competence bonus.

Shape Soulmeld feat from Magic of Incarnum to shape a vitality belt for a +4 moral bonus.

The Skill Focus feat gives another un-typed +3.

Masterwork tool is a +2 circumstance bonus.

Luckstone is a +1 luck bonus.

All that is a +20, plus 12 from your ability score. Skill ranks are at your level +3, Item Familiar from Unearthed Arcana or the SRD web page lets you effectively double your skill ranks. At lvl 20 you would have a skill modifier of 78 right there. There are more ways to boost it further if you are willing to dip into other classes like Exemplar, Factotum, or Marshal. There are also spells and other abilities that can further up the modifier.

[Vodahim]

@ Bonzai : Thx for the explanation (but +6 item = 36k golds... And I think focus Str (and Con after)).

@ Shining Wrath :
If I correctly understand the thing : I take 4 damages per ennemy attack. But I can deal on them a full damage for one of my attack. So, it's useless if the ennemy can't touch me, but if they can easely, I can make attack during their round, right ?

It's pretty good indeed ^^. And I understand the necessity to take Combat Reflexe too.

[Shining Wrath]

@ Bonzai : Thx for the explanation (but +6 item = 36k golds... And I think focus Str (and Con after)).

@ Shining Wrath :
If I correctly understand the thing : I take 4 damages per ennemy attack. But I can deal on them a full damage for one of my attack. So, it's useless if the ennemy can't touch me, but if they can easely, I can make attack during their round, right ?

It's pretty good indeed ^^. And I understand the necessity to take Combat Reflexe too.

No, you don't take 4 damage per enemy attack, they are more likely to hit you (add 4 to their attack roll as though they had a magic weapon or high strength)

[Vodahim]

Yeah I understand that. It's +4 attack rolls AND damage.
It's clear in my mind but I can't explain this easely in english ^^

Anyway, with Steely Strike (Iron Heart lvl 1) : A full attack are a hand-to-hand attack (for the initialization) ?

[gorfnab]

@Eldaran, Thanks for the tras, and it's disruptive energy, not negative you're right...

@Gorfnab : I see this Warblade Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?176968-Masters-of-the-Sword-A-Warblade-s-Handbook-Under-Construction) (look like your first link) but I don't understand soma point of view.

- I choose the THF for my Warblade.
- I have'nt access to Devoted Spirit maneuvers with a Warblade.
- For the THF : In French, manual tell us that a bastard sword can use like a War Weapon (and not an Exotic Weapon) if I use it with Two Hand. So I don't really need EWP if I play a THF char, right ?
- For Brutal Strike : a bludgeoning weapon = a weapon with the property "blunt" ? Like a hammer ? It's pretty good but I prefer the swords (or the axes ^^) But I'll think of that for a priest.
- If I charge with a THW, and make a Power Attack with -5 for the attack rolls : = +10 damages. With Leap Attack = +20 damages right ? But with Combar Brutal it's X3 so +15 damages, right ?
--- So, Combat Brute (without the charge part (and the rush part, I don't like play with this)) I can attack after a destruction. So this feat is always usefull if I put Improved Destruction on my feats list ?
(Edit : Improved Destruction is a prerequired feat for Combat Brutal)

You can acquire Devoted Spirit maneuvers with the feat Martial Study and stances with the feat Martial Stance.
Bludgeoning = blunt weapon such as a Warhammer.
The Combat Brute (Momentum Swing) extra damage is on the round after the charge. So in the first round you can use the Leap Attack + Power Attack combo to charge. On the second round the Combat Brute + Power Attack combo will activate for extra damage.
Improved Sunder (Destruction) is only useful based on the situation at hand. Mainly avoid using it to destroy potential loot. If you need Improved Sunder (Destruction) as a prerequisite for another feat or a prestige class, taking Combat Brute if you have a spare feat available is a decent option.



- What about "moving target" ?
(Edit : I need Dodge and Mobility... And I can't spend three feats for this.)

I think you are talking about taking the feat Spring Attack. Spring Attack is not that good. It only lets you take 1 attack while moving. Also using Spring Attack will only get you the one attack anyways since an attack action is a standard action. Basically that means Spring Attack uses your Standard and Move actions leaving you with only your Swift or Free actions for the round. With a Warblade this means that really you are most likely better off just using a maneuver for an extra effect on an attacks than using Spring Attack.


- I don't understand how to work Robilar's Gambit... For me is a very dangerous feat. But if someone can explain me.
- If someone explain me how to use Stormguard Warrior too (^^').
--- I think use Combat Rythm if an ennemy who wear a big armor.
--- Fighting the horde for upgrade my AC and upgrade my attack rolls front of mass.
--- For Channel the Storm : I don't know how to make an ennemy do action who trigger an opportunity attack.
-----I think if I can have a lot of opportunity attack, I can combine Channel the Storm and Combat Rythm.

(We are agree with this fact : I haven't more opportunity attack than my Dexterity modificator, right ?)

Robilar's Gambit + Stormguard Warrior + Combat Reflexes
Channel the Storm from Stormguard Warrior gives you +4 attack/damage for each attack on your next round for each Attack of Opportunity you give up. Robilar's Gambit gives you an Attack of Opportunity for each attack an enemy makes. So if you have Robilar's Gambit activated and an enemy makes 3 attacks against you, instead of taking the 3 Attacks of Opportunity you can use them to power Channel the Storm. This means that on your next round each attack you make gets +12 attack/damage (3 Attacks of Opportunity given up for +4 attack/damage each). Obviously this combo is better when facing enemies with multiple attacks per round such as enemies using two weapon fighting or monsters with several natural weapons. Combat Reflexes lets you to take a number of Attacks of Opportunity equal to 1 + your dexterity modifier per round (1 Attack of Opportunity as normal + additional attacks of opportunity equal to you dex mod).

Combat Rhythm (Stormguard Warrior) can be used in an interesting way with Channel the Storm. IF you are facing an enemy with really high AC on your round you could use Combat Rhythm instead of normal attacks. Combat Rhythm attacks are touch attacks which should most likely hit since touch AC does not scale well and is hard to increase. So if you made 4 touch attacks (BAB +16) on your next round each attack you make would deal +20 damage. Now combine this with Robilar's Gambit and Channel the Storm. When the enemy attacks you you get attacks of opportunity with this combo. If it attacked you 3 times you would get 3 attacks of opportunity however instead you use it to power Channel the Storm. So on your next round all of your attacks would get +12 to attack and +32 (12 from Channel the Storm and 20 from Combat Rhythm) to damage when you combine Robilar's Gambit + Channel the Storm + Combat Rhythm in this way.


EDIT : Monkey Grip (the feat for use a large weapon when your size is medium) is helpful for a destruction ? There is a +4 bonus for a large size but I need to be large or this work if the weapon are large ?

Don't bother with Monkey Grip. Strongarm Bracers (MIC) are only 6000gp.
Basically both Monkey Grip and Stongarm Bracers allow you to wield a weapon of one size category larger. So a Human (medium size) would be able to wield a Large Size Greatsword (3d6 damage instead of 2d6).

[Shining Wrath]

... SNIP ...

Don't bother with Monkey Grip. Strongarm Bracers (MIC) are only 6000gp.
Basically both Monkey Grip and Stongarm Bracers allow you to wield a weapon of one size category larger. So a Human (medium size) would be able to wield a Large Size Greatsword (3d6 damage instead of 2d6).

Also, Strongarm bracers avoid the -2 penalty on the to-hit roll. Pretty close to strictly better unless you are feat-rich and cash-poor.

[Metahuman1]

Also, Strongarm bracers avoid the -2 penalty on the to-hit roll. Pretty close to strictly better unless you are feat-rich and cash-poor.

And given that character wealth is designed to scale rapidly, this means that you will rarely be so feat rich and so cash poor that it wouldn't be strictly better.

If your going to use Strongarm Bracers, I suggest it might be good to think about using a property in the magic item compendium on your weapon called Sizing. For a flat 5,000GP, you can change your weapons size category as you like. It's just a thought when you have some more money, because of the bracers get destroyed, or you just find a better pair of bracers later, it means you don't have to give up your weapon as well. The best part is that it doesn't count toward your +'s enchantment, which means the price doesn't scale or cause other ability's to become more expensive to add, or compete for space with other ability's because it's outside of the maximum bonus limit for a weapon, which matters as you get higher level.

[Vodahim]

Note to myself : read this MIC if it's in english...

- First : I take the bracelet (I think) and maybe the enchantment for the size later.

- For Improved Sunder : I need this feat for take Combat Brute.
---And I read the book again : Combat Brute is really good with leap attack + power attack. Really good = a good succession.

- The combo with Stormguard Warrior is really impressive too.

- I don't talking about "Spring Attack" but of a Tactical feat in complete warrior too.

P.S. : I can't access at internet for 2 days. So, good weekend.

[Metahuman1]

And a good weekend too you! =)

Also, MIC (Magic Item Compendium), Is one of the better books in the game. There's nice things in there for every class.

[Vodahim]

Re everybody.

So, I work a little on my build with all of your advises (and really thanks, I listen all of them).
I share with you my actual build. And posibly, listen again after new advises ^^

Lvl 1 : Power attack
Lvl 1 (human) : Improved Sunder
Lvl 1 (free feat) : Adaptative style
Lvl 3 : Improved Bull Rush
Lvl 6 : Leap Attack
Lvl 9 : Stormguard Warrior
Lvl 12 : Schock Trooper
Lvl 15 : Robilar's Gambit
Lvl 18 : Combat Brute

Lvl 5 : Iron heart aura
Lvl 9 : Combat Reflexe (just at the same time than Stormguard Warrior)
Lvl 13 : Improved Initiative
Lvl 17 : Blade Meditation (Iron heart or Diamond Mind for +1 attack rolls and +1 DD) (don't see "good" other feat in the list)

Should, all it's ok (requirements as regards number of maneuvers).

Lvl 1 : Steel wind (IH) ----------------------------------- => Lvl 8 : Mithral Tornado (IH) ------------------------------------ => Lvl 16 : Adamantine Hurricain (IH)
Lvl 1 : Moment of Perfect Mind (DM)
Lvl 1 : Sapphire Night Blade (DM) ---------------------- => Lvl 6 : Exorcism of Steel (IH) ---- => Lvl 10 : Disrupting Blow (DM)
Lvl 2 : Sudden leap (TC) or Stealy Strike (IH) -------- => Lvl 4 : Claw of the moon (TC) or Rabid Wolf Strike (TC) --- => Lvl 12 : Rabid bear Strike (TC)
Lvl 3 : Disarming Strike (IH) or Wall of Blades (IH)
Lvl 5 : Soaring Raptor Strike (TC) ---------------------- => Lvl 20 : Strike of Perfect Clarity (IH9)
Lvl 7 : Ruby Nightmare Blade (DM) --------------------- => Lvl 14 : Avalanche of Blades (DM)
Lvl 9 : Pouncing Charge (TC)
Lvl 11 : Manticore Parry (IH) or Iron Heart Endurance (IH) ---- => Lvl 18 : TombStone Strike (SD9)
Lvl 13 : Finishing Move (IH)
Lvl 15 : Diamond Nightmare Blade (DM)
Lvl 17 : Time Stands Still (DM9)
Lvl 19 : Lightning Throw (IH)

For the stances. Can I wait and take other lvl before choose a stance ?
Example : I can choose a second stance at the fourth level. But can I choose it at the ninth level and take a stance IL5 ? (And a second stance IL5 at the tenth level)

Lvl 1 : Punishing Stance (IH)
Lvl 4 : Stance of Clarity (DM) or Hunter's sense (TC)
or Lvl 5 : Absolute Steel Stance (IH)
Lvl 10 : Hearing the air (DM)
Lvl 16 : Stance of Alacrity (DM)

I always count an enhancement bonus equal to +1.

Mithral Breastplate : easy travel, called (7,700gp)
--- spell resistance (19) or fortification, heavy (if it's really immune to Critical Hit) (+36,000gp)

+1 Mithral heavy shield : animated (+2), called (11,020gp)


Many of enhancements tempting me, but I don't know if it's really be worth their price...
Bastard Sword (335gp)
--- Sacred + Heavenly Burst (+2 = +18.000gp)
--- Enervating (+2 = +18,000gp)
--- Implacable (+3 = +32,000gp)
--- Speed (+3 = +32,000gp)

Armor crystal :
- Restful (500gp)
- Claps of energy protection (lesser) (1,500gp)

Shield crystal :
- Arrow deflection (2,500 gp)

Weapon crystal :
- return (leat/lesser) (300gp/1000gp)
- Witchlight reservoir (one of all maybe ?) (3,000gp/u)
- Truedeath (greater) (10,000gp) So, need a +4 weapon, but after, I can make critical hit on the undead =D

(In progress)

[Subaru Kujo]

Well, looking at your feat selections, you are going to have to change up the order of them somewhat. Many of these feats have Base Attack Bonus requirements, so you couldn't take some of those as early as you are.

Full list of things that need to be looked at:

Shock Trooper: Can only take at level 6 and above. Perhaps put Adaptive Style where this one was, since it only has the prerequisites of having a level in a class presented in the Book of Nine Swords (which you do)
Leap Attack: Needs 8 ranks in jump to get, so you can only get this at level 5 and above (Not even possible to pick it up at exactly level 5 for you, so this is effectively level 6 and above). Throw Improved Sunder where this feat was in the lineup, since it has easily obtainable prerequisites if you are building the character right (13 Strength, and having Power Attack as a feat)

So just monkey with getting these feats where they need to be so they fit within those requirements

As far as your Warblade bonus feats go, you will have to put off either Improved Initiative or Combat Reflexes till later on to pick up Iron Heart Aura at level 5, since that feat is required to get the Stormguard Warrior feat.

Will edit this post as I think of other things.

[Vodahim]

Shame on me for forget requirements...
I change all of this, and edit with maneuvers ^^

[Adverb]

You can't take a stance late, or a feat late, because you're not allowed to delay acquiring class features.

I'd recommend picking up Blind-Fight with one of your Warblade bonus feat slots. It's a pretty solid choice.

I would take Swooping Dragon Strike ASAP, and I wouldn't take Finishing Move at all.

Finishing Move is most powerful when you need it least, and least powerful when you need it most. If it were the opposite - "Starting Move", or if it were a move that just halved your opponent's HP, I'd probably take it and open a lot of fights with it.

I would seriously consider taking White Raven Hammer over Diamond Nightmare Blade. You have a long time to think about this, but against the toughest opponents I'd usually rather stun them with no chance for a saving throw, and let the rest of the party pound on them for a round. On the other hand, a lot of things are immune to stunning at that level, and less often immune to melee damage.

For earlier: Take Mountain Hammer. If you could take the upgraded versions that would be neat, but Mountain Hammer is absolutely amazing at low levels, because it lets you destroy any object given enough time, and punching past the DR that you encounter can be super helpful. If you could get the prerequisites, I'd say to take the Elder/Ancient versions, but that's rough.

Keep Sudden Leap. If you keep your Jump high, it can allow you to move more than five feet and still full attack, which is very good for this type of character.

An idea that I never get tired of flogging: After you've got a few levels of Warblade, take 1 level each of Swordsage and Crusader. You'll be a level behind on your Initiator Level, but you'll learn 11 new maneuvers and 2 stances. Some of those can be very good (White Raven Tactics, which is a candidate for the single best power ever published in 3.5, all three Diamond Mind save counters, Flame's Blessing which at high levels makes you fire immune), and all of them count for prerequisite purposes, allowing you to pick up whatever you want at high levels without using your rare/precious Warblade maneuver slots. The Swordsage slots are particularly good for stashing counters in.

[Nightraiderx]

If you have room for some feats, I'm going to suggest
Improved Unarmed Strike/Roundabout Kick:
If you have a Keen Falchion if you confirm a crit you can use the warblade adaption to get another attack out of it.
Not as good as lightning maces, but very similar to it.

Ah checked your manuevers section, if you are going to bullrush there is a lvl 1 stone dragon manuever that lets you do a damaging bullrush.
That could really set you up for more damage using combat brute/shock trooper.

[Vodahim]

@Nightraiderx :
I haven't enough room for feats ^^ but I fight with a bastard sword (maybe two handed scimitar later).
Stone Dragon... I really dislike this discipline. For a tank maybe, but I need movement for enjoy the game.

@ Adverb :
- I'm agree with you but I need Finishing Move for complete the requirements for Adamantite Hurricain.
And with Adaptative Style I can choose this maneuver only if a boss have a big amount of healths points.

- Diamond Nightmare Blade work on the first attack only, but can I make a full attack AND use this maneuver ?
And I can choose this maneuver lvl 20, and forget Adamantite Hurricain or Finishing Move.

- For the White Raven Hammer, I need before three maneuvers of White Raven, and our team count just on 2 melee fighter (whose me) so I don't choose this discipline.

- Take one level of SwordSage and Crusader isn't good too (for me). For RP's reasons and because I loose the double stance with 20 levels of Warblade.

P.S. : I work on magic item. But Magics Items Compendium is huge and only in English...

[Optimator]

Where can I find Eager, Warning and other special properties ?
(Don't find in the Master's Guide, or don't find the right traduction in French).

Google "3.5 weapon special abilities thread"

It's a phenomenal resource for building magic weapons.

[Adverb]

- For the White Raven Hammer, I need before three maneuvers of White Raven, and our team count just on 2 melee fighter (whose me) so I don't choose this discipline.


That's fair, though spellcasters and ranged attacks like stunned opponents too. Still, I can't recommend White Raven Tactics highly enough. If that's the only WR maneuver you ever get, that's enough. Actually, if that's the only thing you ever get from Tome of Battle, that's enough. Once per encounter, as a swift action, you can effectively give one party member a whole extra turn.

[Nightraiderx]

There is only ONE manuever you'll bother taking from stone dragon, it's a 1st lvl manuever, minotaur bull rush I think it's called?
That's if you want to bull rush/damage and use both shock trooper and combat brute together.

[Krazzman]

My recommendation about your race (and favouritism problem):
Ask again about the Warforged (Monster Manual 3) as they are also printed in the Eberron Campaign Setting this might still not go.

[Red Fel]

There is only ONE manuever you'll bother taking from stone dragon, it's a 1st lvl manuever, minotaur bull rush I think it's called?
That's if you want to bull rush/damage and use both shock trooper and combat brute together.

Disagree. Not because I dislike Charging Minotaur - although it seems out of place in a discipline that generally prevents mobility - but because of better options.

That better option, specifically, is the Mountain Tombstone Strike. It's a Warblade 9 maneuver, meaning it will be one of the last ones you take. However, due to poor editing and a lack of errata, it has no prerequisites, which is huge. In other words, as soon as you can take 9th-level maneuvers, even if you have no other Stone Dragon maneuvers, you can take it. And it deals Con damage in addition to normal damage, which is fantastic, because it basically cripples your enemy right in the HP and Fort saves.

Other good Stone Dragon maneuvers to take would be the Mountain Hammer line (Mountain Hammer, Elder Mountain Hammer, Ancient Mountain Hammer), because they overcome DR and hardness, which is generally quite useful.

Don't get me wrong. Charging Minotaur is useful if you've got a bull rush build. I question whether it functions with Shock Trooper, but I don't delve into charge/bull rush mechanics too deeply. But there are better options, if you're limiting your choices in Stone Dragon.

That said, I generally disfavor Stone Dragon. If you want bonus damage, take Iron Heart. If you want action economy, White Raven. And if you want other cool tricks, Diamond Mind. I find Stone Dragon - particularly the fact that many maneuvers limit your mobility - to be a disappointment. (Exception: Since it's the primary damage discipline for Crusaders, who don't need to be mobile anyway, let them keep it. Warblades can do better.)


- Diamond Nightmare Blade work on the first attack only, but can I make a full attack AND use this maneuver ?

No. A full attack requires your full attack action. Diamond Nightmare Blade requires a standard action, so you can perform Diamond Nightmare Blade and take a move action, or perform a full attack action and no move action, but you can't take a standard action and a full attack. Also, Diamond Nightmare Blade does not work on the "first attack"; it is your only attack in that round.

[Vodahim]

No. A full attack requires your full attack action. Diamond Nightmare Blade requires a standard action, so you can perform Diamond Nightmare Blade and take a move action, or perform a full attack action and no move action, but you can't take a standard action and a full attack. Also, Diamond Nightmare Blade does not work on the "first attack"; it is your only attack in that round.

This answer to a lot of my question about what I can or not with a maneuver... Just read if the action is swift or standard...
(thank you ^^)


I didn't know for the Mountain TombStone Strike. It's pretty good. So I think I take this maneuver at lvl 18 (if I survive so long).


And I read all the maneuvers of Stone Dragon, a lot are really useful, but there is the problem of the mobility... I prefer play with Tiger Claw, Iron Heart and Diamond Mind. Because they represent exactly what I want : a fast-acting guy who can jump on an ennemy, make face at a horde of minions and who is always master of his mind and his body. (It sounds pretty good =p)
And if I use three disciplines, I really need to don't choose maneuvers from other discipline. Especially with a Warblade (who have only 13 maneuvers lvl 20).

[Red Fel]

And I read all the maneuvers of Stone Dragon, a lot are really useful, but there is the problem of the mobility... I prefer play with Tiger Claw, Iron Heart and Diamond Mind. Because they represent exactly what I want : a fast-acting guy who can jump on an ennemy, make face at a horde of minions and who is always master of his mind and his body. (It sounds pretty good =p)
And if I use three disciplines, I really need to don't choose maneuvers from other discipline. Especially with a Warblade (who have only 13 maneuvers lvl 20).

This is a very smart position to take. High-level maneuvers are exceptionally powerful, but they have many prerequisites. Unless you end up using the Martial Study feat, you'll need to narrow your focus. Keeping yourself to 3 disciplines is a fairly smart proposal. I still think you should take White Raven Tactics, because it's that good, but the rest is manageable. Remember several things about 9th-level maneuvers in those disciplines:

1. Feral Death Blow (Tiger Claw). I don't like this maneuver. First off, it requires too many dice rolls. First you make a Jump check. If you put a lot of points into Jump, it shouldn't be too hard, but you can always fail a dice roll, so fewer rolls is better. Next, you make an attack roll. Next, your enemy makes a Fort save. Fort saves tend to be the strongest save, so this isn't the best. If the save fails, they die instantly - which is pretty nice - unless they're immune to death effects. A lot of enemies are immune to death effects. If they make the save, they take regular damage, plus 20d6. 20d6 averages to about 70 damage, on top of the damage from a single melee attack. Which isn't terrible. Still, between the three different dice rolls, and the death effect immunity, there's some disappointment here.

2. Strike of Perfect Clarity (Iron Heart). I love this maneuver. It's simple yet brutally effective. Make a single melee attack, add 100 damage. Flat 100. Note that this is a guaranteed 100 damage, higher than the average (and close to the maximum) Feral Death Blow can deal without a death effect, and it works even against enemies who might be immune to precision damage, critical hits, or death effects. As an aside, under the "Massive Damage" rules, this much damage will generally trigger a save-or-die anyway (except if the enemy is immune, as above), so it basically gives you all of the advantages of Feral Death Blow without the drawbacks.

3. Time Stands Still (Diamond Mind). I adore this maneuver. Being able to use a full attack twice in a row is awesome. Since you're a Warblade, you can use this maneuver, use your next swift action to refresh it, then on the next turn you can use it again. But that's only the tip of the iceberg; we can do so much more. First, take the Warblade stance Punishing Stance, that adds 1d6 to every hit. Since you're performing two full attacks, that's a lot of bonus damage. But we're not done yet. Next, we take the Stormguard Warrior feat. We use the "Combat Rhythm" option. This gives us two choices. Choice the first, perform a full attack with Combat Rhythm, dealing no damage, then use Time Stands Still on the next turn. At high levels, this will give us four attacks with no damage, meaning that we deal 5x4= +20 damage with each Time Stands Still attack (and there are eight of them, so that's +160 bonus damage). Alternatively, we use Time Stands Still with combat rhythm, then do a full attack normally on the next round; since we used eight attack with no damage, that's 5x8= +40 damage with each normal attack on the next round, or a total of +160 bonus damage. Either way, it's an explosion of damage the next round. I adore this maneuver.

Just keep this in mind when deciding on your 9th-level maneuvers, is what I'm suggesting.

[Vodahim]

- First, I don't see Feral Death Blow in this way...
Not so good that I imagine.
And the same for Strike of perfect clarity. I don't see the flat damages.

- Time Stands Still : I think about it too ^^ and this is why I choose this maneuver lvl 16. (as soon as possible).


P.S. : For you, the Tome of Battle is completely broken (I mean really really more powerful than other books) or not ?
And if not, why all the people say that it's an obligation for build a melee fighter ?

[Red Fel]

P.S. : For you, the Tome of Battle is completely broken (I mean really really more powerful than other books) or not ?
And if not, why all the people say that it's an obligation for build a melee fighter ?

That's a very tricky question.

On the one hand, Tome of Battle represents a major increase in the power of a melee fighter. A major increase. In that sense, it's definitely more powerful than the average melee, and that's why it's considered obligatory.

However, even the ultimate Tome of Battle melee build doesn't compare with a core-only spellcaster. That's the key thing. Nothing melee can ever do will compare with spellcasting. Nothing. Give melee flight, teleportation, invisibility, bonus damage, even death effects. Spellcasters are still infinitely more diverse and more powerful. Compare any ninth-level maneuver with spells such as Shapechange, Wish, Gate and Miracle, and you'll see why.

Basically, Tome of Battle is a massive and important power-up for melee. But more powerful than other books? Perhaps, in regards to melee, but not more powerful than spellcasting.

In my opinion, Tome of Battle is not overpowered in any setting where there are spellcasters who can literally rewrite reality. There's just no comparison.

That said, people who say ToB is obligatory do have a point. ToB "fixes" a lot of what's wrong with many melee classes. Warblade is a Fighter with more than just feats. Crusader is a Paladin who can do more than just smite a few times a day. Swordsage is what Monk wishes it could be. The ToB base classes take melee and turn it into something wonderful, diverse, and fun, something that's built with a high floor, meaning that it's very hard to play a "bad" ToB class. The ToB prestige classes simply take those base classes and make them even more awesome.

Not many books have successfully taken melee from mundane to magnificent without adding spellcasting. That's ToB's strength, and that's why it's so prized.

[Vodahim]

@Red Fel : Thanks for your answer. I know now how to explain the strengh of this tome.