Damnable PC's -- need a Blackguard built that'll teach them a lesson!

[RavynsLand]

I keep making all of these NPC villains and my PC's just OWN them. Managed to kill the sorcerer but new characters pop up like flies, all of them hanging onto the backbone of the highest-level/most optimized player, a Warblade/Wizard/JPM/AbjChamp. I've thrown everything at these guys, from half-dragon clerics, to a barbarian/ravager+monk/ravager team with mooks too, to a group of half-fiend NPC's led by a 12th-level cleric, and a gestalted rage mage with an extra standard action per round. They kill the hell out of the baddies and while that's fine, obviously they earned it, I want to challenge them.

Now they're on the hunt for Solarius Dayforge, a paladin of St. Cuthbert who they gave a mysterious evil artifact to, not knowing that he was, in fact, a Blackguard the whole time.

I need him to be a crazy badass tank, Blackguard levels required, durable enough to work with mooks to get constant sneak attacks. Shooting for level 12-15.

http://img.booru.org/grognard//images/14/9457cad9701757771b5f802689120a7e78e35141.jpg

[Kamin_Majere]

What level is the party and how many are in it? (bonus help if rough outline of character builds given)

The problem with single big guy with "mooks" is the party is always going to have action advantage and even if he can kill any of them in a turn and they can only kill 1/3 of him a turn its pretty easy to see a party of 4 will always come out on top as they will just ignore the mooks and mop them up once the real threat is gone.

If this guy is in the 12-15 level range it wouldn't be out of the question to have a "party" of his own, even if they are just weak enough to no directly threaten him one on one. He would have those powerful enough as allies to be useful allies, so if he's say 12th level having a few 9th level and maybe 1 10th/11th level around would still be useful to him but couldn't overpower him unless they ganged up. Plus the reward for protecting/using the artifact for evil would be pretty good incentive.

If you are more of a living world kinda person, think about how he got to the level hes at. 12th-15th level people don't just pop out of no where, so he assumingly had to do the same stuff the PC's had to do to get leveled (just assuming the evil versions there of) So would he not have people that he runs with to accomplish these goals? An evil spell caster that enjoys playing with infernal powers, and assassin that has taken the live of many nobles to increase their power base, a dark cleric that faithfully gave himself over to their shared god, a factotum that delved a bit to far into the abyss of knowledge, etc... Even if these people are a bit weaker than he is, still together they could be an actual threat unlike big guy+mooks that is usually an auto win for the PC's unless the big guy is just insane compared to them.

But being he is already at a disadvantage by being a Blackguard it's going to be a tough build.

[RavynsLand]

Well he was actually a questing Blackguard and has been through many adventures, most recently he heard of turmoil and corruption and paraded himself as a paladin to be chosen as new leader (turned out one of the PC's retired his monk to be king instead), but now he's pissed and wreaking havoc.

I never saw him as having a party but I was considering giving him monstrous minions, might that work?

And I usually don't go with low-level mooks, learned too fast that the party deals with them easily, so I usually just toss in lower-tier threats (level or two below the PC's level).

The party is as thus:

Human Warblade3/Wizard3/Jade Phoenix Mage2/Abjurant Champion 3 (CL 11). Uses maneuvers to bypass armor or DR, then channels spells for huge damage.
Human Fighter5/Dervish4 (CL 9)
Human Fighter7 (CL like, none, she's amazingly unoptimized, you'd think she was a 3.0 character)
And an unfinished archer character (replacing the just-retired monk) who'll be an 8th-level character.

Mostly everything hinges on Barnabus, the warblade. He has a habit of picking the biggest baddest guy there and just pummeling him. Example, I was hinging a lot on a mid-level gestalt Rage Mage with stoneskin and high AC and high hit points, until Barnabus foe-hammered him for like 50 points, bypassing his DR. Pretty much ended the fight.

[Metahuman1]

Have him hit up a mage that owes him a very serious debt, and when the party finds him, it's just in time for him to leave and the mage to be in his Sanctum with his Buffs up and inside a spell circle with a ready action to target the other players with Mass Hold Person and have a couple of monsters already summoned to keep them busy. A Vrock or an Enrays or two should buy him a couple of rounds to ruin there day with Dispel Magic, Greater Mirror's Image and Displacement up to protect his own HP totals, and a bit fo Black Tenticals, Web, Slow and maybe Disintegrate for the big dog.

That'll school them.

[John Longarrow]

Human. Using elite array Str 10 Dex 8 Con 12 Int 13 Wis 18 (+3 from levels) Cha 14
01 Cleric 1 - Domains(Darkness, Strength) feat- Extend Spell, Combat Casting
02 Cleric 2
03 Cleric 3 Feat- Extra Turning
04 Cleric 4 +1 Wis
05 Sword Sage 1
06 Sword Sage 2 Feat- <Can't remember feat, lets you change readied maneuvers as a move action)
07 Sword Sage 3
08 Sword Sage 4 +1 Wis Feat- Persistent Spell
09 Abj Champion 1 (Adaptation for the pClass to let divine take)
10 Abj Champion 2
11 Abj Champion 3
12 Abj Champion 4 +1 Wis Feat- Divine MM Persistent
13 Abj Champion 5
14 Blackguard 1
15 Blackguard 2 Feat- Extra Turning

Give stat boosts to Wis / Cha. Do something to avoid penalty to Dex.

With Wis do AC and Damage (SS4) he should be able to cast Armor of Darkness and Shield of Faith in one round. Toss in a pair of persistent buffs (Rightous Might/Divne Favor)? and you get a monster in melee with a touch AC in the 30s...

Not an optimized bad guy, but you did want a blackguard.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Knight of the Unseelie Court
Gloura (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e), Cobra-Strike (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantFightingSty les) (Fallen or Chaos) Monk 2/ Fighter 2/ Blackguard 3/ Arcane Duelist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) 3/ Mystic Wanderer (http://dndtools.eu/classes/mystic-wanderer/) 1
Monk, Fighter, and Blackguard levels are nonassociated (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#advancedMonsterChallengeRati ng), and fractions round down, so this opponent is CR 14. He (she?) has the equipment of an ECL 20 NPC.

Two flaws: Love of Nature and Aligned Devotion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258440-The-quot-Best-quot-Flaws#30) for two extra feats; say he gained Iron Will via the Otyugh Hole detailed in Complete Scoundrel.
Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Weapon Finesse, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Ascetic Mage, Divine Might, EWP: Spiked Chain, Elusive Target, Combat Reflexes, Extra Turning.

Elite array:
Str 13 +1 (13 base)
Dex 24 +7 (8 base, +10 race, +6 enhancement)
Con 18 +4 (14 base, +4 race)
Int 10 +0 (10 base)
Wis 14 +2 (12 base, +2 race)
Cha 30 +10 (15 base, +6 race, +3 levels, +6 enhancement)

+1 Valorous (UE) Smoking (LoD) Sudden Stunning (DMG2) Spiked Chain, Circlet of Rapid Casting (MIC) with +6 Cha (MIC p234), Armbands of Might (MIC) with +6 Dex (MIC p234), Third Eye Clarity (MIC), Anklet of Translocation (MIC), Ring of Freedom of Movement, Belt of Battle (MIC), Cloak of Resistance +5, Spell Component Pouch, clothing enchanted as magic armor: +1 Soulfire (BoED).

AC: 58 (+1 Armor, +10 Monk, +10 Dodge, +10 Profane, +10 Deflection, +7 Dex), Touch 57, Flat-Footed 41
Fort: +41 (+12 base, +4 Con, +10 Unearthly Grace, +10 Divine Grace, +5 Resistance)
Reflex: +46 (+14 base, +7 Dex, +10 Unearthly Grace, +10 Divine Grace, +5 Resistance)
Will: +41 (+14 base, +2 Wis, +10 Unearthly Grace, +10 Divine Grace, +5 Resistance)

BAB +10, grapple +11

Charge (double damage with a Valorous weapon), Dive Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#fly) (updated for humanoid-shaped creatures (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b&page=1), double damage with a piercing weapon), Power Attack for -10 AC and +22 damage (Shock Trooper, Armbands of Might), Divine Might for +10 damage. Optional: Dextrous Attack for -5 damage and +5 to hit, or -10 damage and +10 to hit.
Spiked Chain: +20 melee 6d4+102 (8d4+136 crit), or +25 melee 6d4+87 (8d4+116 crit), or +30 melee 6d4+72 (8d4+96 crit).
Same hit and damage values for attacks of opportunity until his next turn.

[RavynsLand]

Have him hit up a mage that owes him a very serious debt, and when the party finds him, it's just in time for him to leave and the mage to be in his Sanctum with his Buffs up and inside a spell circle with a ready action to target the other players with Mass Hold Person and have a couple of monsters already summoned to keep them busy. A Vrock or an Enrays or two should buy him a couple of rounds to ruin there day with Dispel Magic, Greater Mirror's Image and Displacement up to protect his own HP totals, and a bit fo Black Tenticals, Web, Slow and maybe Disintegrate for the big dog.

That'll school them.

So your advice is to have him run and use a mage instead? :3


Human. Using elite array Str 10 Dex 8 Con 12 Int 13 Wis 18 (+3 from levels) Cha 14
01 Cleric 1 - Domains(Darkness, Strength) feat- Extend Spell, Combat Casting
02 Cleric 2
03 Cleric 3 Feat- Extra Turning
04 Cleric 4 +1 Wis
05 Sword Sage 1
06 Sword Sage 2 Feat- <Can't remember feat, lets you change readied maneuvers as a move action)
07 Sword Sage 3
08 Sword Sage 4 +1 Wis Feat- Persistent Spell
09 Abj Champion 1 (Adaptation for the pClass to let divine take)
10 Abj Champion 2
11 Abj Champion 3
12 Abj Champion 4 +1 Wis Feat- Divine MM Persistent
13 Abj Champion 5
14 Blackguard 1
15 Blackguard 2 Feat- Extra Turning

Give stat boosts to Wis / Cha. Do something to avoid penalty to Dex.

With Wis do AC and Damage (SS4) he should be able to cast Armor of Darkness and Shield of Faith in one round. Toss in a pair of persistent buffs (Rightous Might/Divne Favor)? and you get a monster in melee with a touch AC in the 30s...

Not an optimized bad guy, but you did want a blackguard.

Interesting build. May use it or adapt it. Maybe swap Swordsage for Crusader.

[RavynsLand]

-snip-

Not... quite that much of a lesson.

[Kamin_Majere]

Wow that's going to be a hard party to build around. You are right about literally 1 strong character carrying the others lol

hrm, at 12th(and at 15th even more so) level and the right minions he could easily bring the hurt, the problem is if you make the challenge to face the Abjurant Champ its going to cake walk the other three, and if you make it a challenge for the other 3 its going to be cake walked by the Abjurant Champ.

That 4 level party gap is going to be hard to build for. Minions that achieve battlefield control and can either lock down or debuff Barnabus so the Black guard can get the upper hand then have them concentrate on the party while the two big guys fight it out seems about the best way to go about it... Unless you are looking to kill/permanently reduce Barnabus then it becomes a whole different ball game, but I'm assuming you are just wanting a skin of your teeth victory instead of a massacre though.

but i'll try to come up with something build wise and see if I can balance it with that party

[Metahuman1]

So your advice is to have him run and use a mage instead? :3


It's surprising, underhanded, dishonorable and get's results. Why wouldn't he? Besides, you said yourself the problem is mainly the guy with magic, what better way to offset that then magic? If you prefer, leave the mage, drop the summonings, and replace them with a few choice buffs on the Blackguard (Enlarge Person, Displacement, Haste, Mirror's Image, Wraithstrike, Greater Mighty Wallop if he uses a bludgeoning weapon.) and Let him help with holding melee and handing out finishing blows. Maybe throw on a level of Crusader for the build since he's level 14 and Blackgaurd is a 10 level class. Mage buffed him and throws down nasty status effects and battle field control and debuffs that cripple the party, he mops up. Turns the problem on it's head and makes it the PC's problem.

[John Longarrow]

RavynsLand,

Big advantage for switching to Crusader would be the damage pool. If that's the aim, I'd up the Cleric 2 and go with only 2 levels in Crusader (Big Hitty maneuvers) This would give this guy a CL of 11 (matching the JPM).
Down side is no Wis to Damage and a lot fewer maneuvers. I know, not very optimized, but with the number of things he can do as its I'm trying to avoid DM overload when running him.

Course if you do go crusader, the build becomes more like
Cleric levels 1-4
Crusader levels 5-6 (BAB 5 with initiator level 3 when you start)
Abjurant Champion Levels 7-11
Blackguard 12-15

Lets you roll him out at a lower level. May only have one persistent spell. With a Monks belt you keep the high (but not unhittable) AC.

[RavynsLand]

Wow that's going to be a hard party to build around. You are right about literally 1 strong character carrying the others lol

hrm, at 12th(and at 15th even more so) level and the right minions he could easily bring the hurt, the problem is if you make the challenge to face the Abjurant Champ its going to cake walk the other three, and if you make it a challenge for the other 3 its going to be cake walked by the Abjurant Champ.

That 4 level party gap is going to be hard to build for. Minions that achieve battlefield control and can either lock down or debuff Barnabus so the Black guard can get the upper hand then have them concentrate on the party while the two big guys fight it out seems about the best way to go about it... Unless you are looking to kill/permanently reduce Barnabus then it becomes a whole different ball game, but I'm assuming you are just wanting a skin of your teeth victory instead of a massacre though.

but i'll try to come up with something build wise and see if I can balance it with that party

Yeah, that's the exact problem I've been having. If I focus on squishing Barnabus then the other PC's are totally useless.

Also I don't want to permanently kill/cripple Barnabus because I reward good playing. Actually because of how good a roleplayer he is he's been racking up hero points which let him survive if he gets killed, so killing him isn't much of an option anymore. I just have to challenge the whole party and make entertaining battles that are challenging but not an easy sweep.

I should also mention that Barnabus has a hippogryff familiar with full mithral barding. O_O And mounted combat. So if I play the "flying creatures!" card all it's gonna do is make the two melee fighters look silly.

Unless... maybe I introduce one boss flier and some lesser grounded creatures? Literally target the varied aspects of the party?

[John Longarrow]

OK... Very EVIL thought for this guy....

Have him backed up by a 9th level beguiler. He goes in and uses subdual damage (gauntlet) while the beguiler whelms at will. "Solarius" has lesser vigor up at the beginning of the fight and the Beguiler has sculpt spell to avoid hitting him with non-lethal damage.

Our good Blackguard doesn't want to kill the party, that would be too easy. Instead, leave them laying there on the ground, sacrifice people around them, and leave them to awaken in a pool of child entrails.

His real goal is to get the JPM so angry that he turns to evil.

[Mizr]

Template: Chosen of Bane (Forgotten Realms: Faiths and Pantheons)

Favored Soul 8/Blackguard 7

Take the feat Death Devotion from Complete Champion, so that he can start level draining some fools with his melee attacks. Look to spells like Hold Person, and feats that will make it harder to resist. Keep your Warblade locked down (or coup de grace him while he's held). Also, give him the item every follower of Bane should have: Gauntlet of Utterdeath. (You can tweak this stuff to follow Hextor as well if you don't want to use Forgotten Realms deities.)

[RavynsLand]

It's surprising, underhanded, dishonorable and get's results. Why wouldn't he? Besides, you said yourself the problem is mainly the guy with magic, what better way to offset that then magic? If you prefer, leave the mage, drop the summonings, and replace them with a few choice buffs on the Blackguard (Enlarge Person, Displacement, Haste, Mirror's Image, Wraithstrike, Greater Mighty Wallop if he uses a bludgeoning weapon.) and Let him help with holding melee and handing out finishing blows. Maybe throw on a level of Crusader for the build since he's level 14 and Blackgaurd is a 10 level class. Mage buffed him and throws down nasty status effects and battle field control and debuffs that cripple the party, he mops up. Turns the problem on it's head and makes it the PC's problem.

That's possible... have an evil wizard on the job, maybe a transmuter or abjurer, and some minions. If I make sure the Blackguard has some decent sneak attack feats he can stay mobile and do a lot of flanking with maneuvers....


RavynsLand,

Big advantage for switching to Crusader would be the damage pool. If that's the aim, I'd up the Cleric 2 and go with only 2 levels in Crusader (Big Hitty maneuvers) This would give this guy a CL of 11 (matching the JPM).
Down side is no Wis to Damage and a lot fewer maneuvers. I know, not very optimized, but with the number of things he can do as its I'm trying to avoid DM overload when running him.

Course if you do go crusader, the build becomes more like
Cleric levels 1-4
Crusader levels 5-6 (BAB 5 with initiator level 3 when you start)
Abjurant Champion Levels 7-11
Blackguard 12-15

Lets you roll him out at a lower level. May only have one persistent spell. With a Monks belt you keep the high (but not unhittable) AC.

Interesting, yeah. Could also save one crusader level for after the AbjChamp so he gets a couple bigger maneuvers.

I'll give it some thought and tinker with the build concept.

[RavynsLand]

OK... Very EVIL thought for this guy....

Have him backed up by a 9th level beguiler. He goes in and uses subdual damage (gauntlet) while the beguiler whelms at will. "Solarius" has lesser vigor up at the beginning of the fight and the Beguiler has sculpt spell to avoid hitting him with non-lethal damage.

Our good Blackguard doesn't want to kill the party, that would be too easy. Instead, leave them laying there on the ground, sacrifice people around them, and leave them to awaken in a pool of child entrails.

His real goal is to get the JPM so angry that he turns to evil.

Ooooh... I really like that too actually. *taps fingertips together* Not familiar enough with beguiler but maybe an Enchanter or something to use extended hold persons? Make them watch?


Template: Chosen of Bane (Forgotten Realms: Faiths and Pantheons)

Favored Soul 8/Blackguard 7

Take the feat Death Devotion from Complete Champion, so that he can start level draining some fools with his melee attacks. Look to spells like Hold Person, and feats that will make it harder to resist. Keep your Warblade locked down (or coup de grace him while he's held). Also, give him the item every follower of Bane should have: Gauntlet of Utterdeath. (You can tweak this stuff to follow Hextor as well if you don't want to use Forgotten Realms deities.)

Very interesting, but I think I may stick with an initiator to balance out the JPM.

[Metahuman1]

Ooooh... I really like that too actually. *taps fingertips together* Not familiar enough with beguiler but maybe an Enchanter or something to use extended hold persons? Make them watch?



Very interesting, but I think I may stick with an initiator to balance out the JPM.

Juice the save DC and be ready to do it a few times to shut them down, I'm betting the archer doesn't have a stellar will save and neither do the fighters, so the big concern is the not horrific will save on the Gish and his Moment of Perfect Mind counter and Iron Heart Surge Boosts, and if he has Mind Blank as a spell he can use.

Another thought for the blackgaurd. Give him 3 levels of Psion and a hired mook that is basically immune to damage that's sitting out of the fight, and have him use Shared Pain on that mook and the rest of his PP on Vigor before the fight. Every hit he takes does half damage, and he's got a nice pool of temp HP to help soak up the half he does take. Should help him stay up and in battle longer.

[Snowbluff]

I want someone to use this build I came up with. :(

Warlock2/Crusader3/EPM7

[John Longarrow]

Beguiler is in PHB2. They have a set of "Whelm" spells that deal non-lethal damage.

Very fun for incapacitating enemies. Also grabbing Symbol of Pain as a 1st is doable for them.

Over all, just winning the fight won't do two of the things you want out of a blackguard; You need to make sure they are beaten AND you need to make sure they are humiliated. Makes for a HATED NPC that you can then use to keep the party going for a long time.

[RavynsLand]

(Swapping Cleric for Favored Soul to get Cha synergy)

1. Favored Soul 1
2. Favored Soul 2
3. Favored Soul 3
4. Favored Soul 4
5. Crusader 1
6. Crusader 2
7. Abjurant Champion 1
8. Abjurant Champion 2
9. Abjurant Champion 3
10. Abjurant Champion 4
11. Abjurant Champion 5
12. Blackguard 1
13. Blackguard 2
14. Blackguard 3
15. Blackguard 4

This'll give him 4th level FS spells, 2nd level Blackguard spells, 2nd-level maneuvers, some sneak attack, aura of despair and a crazy will save (Indomitable Soul says it doesn't stack with Divine Grace -- it doesn't mention Dark Blessing. :3 Loopholes ftw!)

How's this look? He can get by with only a 12 wisdom and focus on str/con/cha like a proper paladin.

[RavynsLand]

I want someone to use this build I came up with. :(

Warlock2/Crusader3/EPM7

Give me a character sheet and I'll toss him at my PC's!

Give him a feat every other level too, for fun.

[Kamin_Majere]

Its not incredibly optimized, but Hexblade with the alternative class feature Dark Minion (cant remember its actual name) from the PHB2 into Black Guard would be able to make a decent first turn surprise with the curses and then can always set up a bunch of negatives to the party (mostly to Barnabus to make him more in line with the rest of the party) with a few utility spells pre-cast and leading with a Smite on the Abjurant champ to put them closer in life expenctency.

Then with the right combination of like a level 7-9 beguiler and a few minions with even a bit of Damage Reduction to keep the archer busy and give the 7th level fighter something to swing at.

Hexblade 9 / Blackguard 3 (or 6 if you want him 15th level). Its a pretty simple build but with a few good buff spells could at least martially challenge Barnabus and keep the rest of the party busy with a controlling Beguiler and the damage reduction packing minions to wear down the weaker party members.

The beguiler is really going to have to lock down the battle field though, and its going to look a lot like 2 very different battles going on because of the power differences in the party.

[Snowbluff]

Will do. I'll have a sheet tonight or tomorrow morning. :3

[John Longarrow]

Another thought for the blackgaurd. Give him 3 levels of Psion and a hired mook that is basically immune to damage that's sitting out of the fight, and have him use Shared Pain on that mook and the rest of his PP on Vigor before the fight. Every hit he takes does half damage, and he's got a nice pool of temp HP to help soak up the half he does take. Should help him stay up and in battle longer.

Cleric can share pain. Putting the other ring on a caged troll is just EVIL...

:belkar: :belkar: :belkar:

Yes, that ratest THREE Belkars!

[Metahuman1]

Can he? Is that a spell compendium spell?

And hey, while your at it, Get a Contingency Heal and a healing belt on the Black Guard and a hireling Healer to stand over the Caged Troll and ready actions to drop healing on it in the most effective manner possible so as to make damn sure it never goes below 0, and to make getting you to below 0 the end of round 1.

[RavynsLand]

Its not incredibly optimized, but Hexblade with the alternative class feature Dark Minion (cant remember its actual name) from the PHB2 into Black Guard would be able to make a decent first turn surprise with the curses and then can always set up a bunch of negatives to the party (mostly to Barnabus to make him more in line with the rest of the party) with a few utility spells pre-cast and leading with a Smite on the Abjurant champ to put them closer in life expenctency.

Then with the right combination of like a level 7-9 beguiler and a few minions with even a bit of Damage Reduction to keep the archer busy and give the 7th level fighter something to swing at.

Hexblade 9 / Blackguard 3 (or 6 if you want him 15th level). Its a pretty simple build but with a few good buff spells could at least martially challenge Barnabus and keep the rest of the party busy with a controlling Beguiler and the damage reduction packing minions to wear down the weaker party members.

The beguiler is really going to have to lock down the battle field though, and its going to look a lot like 2 very different battles going on because of the power differences in the party.

Did you see the Favored Soul/Crusader/Abjurant Champion/Blackguard build, above? :D Thoughts?

I'll take a look at Beguiler and see if I can make one up, then throw in some unpleasant monsters and a few that fly to keep the archer and the hippogryph busy. See how that works out :D

[Azoth]

Unseelie Fey (Winter's chill) Human Cloistered cleric1/Hexblade4 (dark companion ACF)/Paladin of Tyrany 3 (ACF to give Cha to AC and from Smite to Song)/Crusader1/Ruby Knight Vindicator7

Power Attack
Divine Power
Law Devotion
Death Devotion
Doom Speak
Travel Devotion
Battle Blessing

Give this guy a Vexing Weapon from Dragon 339 and a belt of battle then watch people cry.

He is a single man debuffer that could scare your JPM player.

RKV will let him burn his TU attempts for extra swift actions for which all of his Paladin spells are as well as the activations and uses of his Devotion feats.

First round of combat he can activate Death Devotion to be able to throw out 3 negative levels when he attacks. Activate Law devotion for +7 to hit. Activate Travel Devotion so he can swift action move up to his enemy.

After that he would activate the Belt of Battle to use Doomspeak. -10 to everything with DC too high to pass. Especially with the save Debuffing his mere pressence causes (Dark Companion -2, Paladin aura -2, Winter's Chill -Cha mod). Then drop a Free action Hex for another -2. Trigger the Vexing weapon for -Enhancement bonus to pretty much everything.

Now with this guy staring down over -20 to pretty much EVERYTHING. Just pop off a Full attack at massive power attack. That will also give him 3 negative levels.

Should scare your gish and the rest of the party pretty decently while still having the Blackguard feel to it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Another thought for the blackgaurd. Give him 3 levels of Psion and a hired mook that is basically immune to damage that's sitting out of the fight, and have him use Shared Pain on that mook and the rest of his PP on Vigor before the fight. Every hit he takes does half damage, and he's got a nice pool of temp HP to help soak up the half he does take. Should help him stay up and in battle longer.

Just get Psicrystal Affinity and use Share Pain on the psicrystal. Its Hardness 8 reduces every instance of damage it takes from Share Pain by as much, regardless of the original attack's type. Have him keep it in a compartment on his person so opponents never have line of sight/effect to it and cannot target it directly. The psicrystal can wear a Healing Belt (MIC) and use it to heal him a few times during the fight.

[Xerlith]

I have a question that it seems hasn't been asked - why is there such a level difference between the party members? How can a level 7 Fighter (a tier 4-5 character) hold a candle to the JPM/AbjChamp that's four levels above herl?

Run the paladin as Paladin of Tyranny2/Hexblade4/Blackguard2/Crusader1/RKV 8 and watch them burn.

[Kamin_Majere]

Did you see the Favored Soul/Crusader/Abjurant Champion/Blackguard build, above? :D Thoughts?

I'll take a look at Beguiler and see if I can make one up, then throw in some unpleasant monsters and a few that fly to keep the archer and the hippogryph busy. See how that works out :D

It's a very good build to be sure, and will definitely give a good challenge to overcome. (though how do you get Abjurant Champion with divine casting?)

About the only two criticisms I would have here is:
1. A pretty well (or even decently) optimized 15th level character runs a pretty big chance to actually kill Barnabus. The Black Guard has a 4 level advantage and that can be hard to overcome if its equally as optimized
2. (and this is a purely theatrics criticism, so mostly you can ignore this one) Is it looks like you are building Barnabus an "Evil Twin" that is his equal yet opposite in every way. This could become really cool if the Blackguard is going to be a recurring thorn in his side, but if its going to be a minor bump in their role playing adventure it looks a bit like you are out to target him :)

[RavynsLand]

I have a question that it seems hasn't been asked - why is there such a level difference between the party members? How can a level 7 Fighter (a tier 4-5 character) hold a candle to the JPM/AbjChamp that's four levels above herl?

Run the paladin as Paladin of Tyranny2/Hexblade4/Blackguard2/Crusader1/RKV 8 and watch them burn.

Party of 4 starts out at 3rd level. Warblade, Fighter, Sorc, and Monk.

Immediately after play begins, the fighter had to go on a trip. She's "captured" and stays gone for a long while.

around level 8 the sorcerer has her neck snapped, makes a dervish at level 7

Recollect the 3rd-level fighter, who starts leveling quickly

Monk retires to be king

So the JPM (the warblade) is the OG of the party. Best optimized, richest, most famous, more extra abilities from quests, and highest level.

[RavynsLand]

It's a very good build to be sure, and will definitely give a good challenge to overcome. (though how do you get Abjurant Champion with divine casting?)

About the only two criticisms I would have here is:
1. A pretty well (or even decently) optimized 15th level character runs a pretty big chance to actually kill Barnabus. The Black Guard has a 4 level advantage and that can be hard to overcome if its equally as optimized
2. (and this is a purely theatrics criticism, so mostly you can ignore this one) Is it looks like you are building Barnabus an "Evil Twin" that is his equal yet opposite in every way. This could become really cool if the Blackguard is going to be a recurring thorn in his side, but if its going to be a minor bump in their role playing adventure it looks a bit like you are out to target him :)

Oh he'll definitely be elusive. Weaker than the Illuminati (the plot's main villains) but also more protected by the plot since the Illuminati are meant to be killed. So I'll try to keep Solarius alive. This is also not the group's first encounter with him -- they trusted him, even gave him an artifact because he was masquerading as a paladin. Even now that they found his altar they think he's corrupted and good inside, not knowing he is a crusading blackguard and always has been. :3

[Kamin_Majere]

Oh he'll definitely be elusive. Weaker than the Illuminati (the plot's main villains) but also more protected by the plot since the Illuminati are meant to be killed. So I'll try to keep Solarius alive. This is also not the group's first encounter with him -- they trusted him, even gave him an artifact because he was masquerading as a paladin. Even now that they found his altar they think he's corrupted and good inside, not knowing he is a crusading blackguard and always has been. :3

I like it, can even play the "please help me find the light again" card once before the gig is totally up :)

[RavynsLand]

I like it, can even play the "please help me find the light again" card once before the gig is totally up :)

That's definitely the plan for if the PC's manage to tie him down. :3

"I'm... I'm sorry... the mace you gave me. I studied it, tried to destroy it. That's why I wasn't at the battle, I was trying to..." -- trails off -- "...But it was too strong. I can't shake its hold on me."

Aaaaaaaall lies.

[RavynsLand]

Also in reply to the other question, we're using an alternate AbjChamp and making him divine rather than arcane.

[RavynsLand]

Would it be cheating/too evil for him cast Venomfire on a serpent, then immediately apply its venom to his blade? +9d6 per strike? I think that may be too much....

[Magesmiley]

Well, there is always the strategy of having the blackguard built to fight the bulk of the party and having the blackguard's primary minion be designed solely keep the warblade busy. Maybe a grappler or someone with area control spells? How about a well-trained advanced rust monster?

Another thought is to use terrain to the NPCs' advantage. Don't give them a place where they can go just walk up and whomp on stuff. Make them go up a cliff or deal with flying enemies. Along this line... what about some well placed traps that the NPCs are aware of? Make the easy route to the biggest, baddest NPC also take the character right across a hidden trap that does somethingfairly bad - even a concealed deep pit might be adequate.

[RavynsLand]

Well, there is always the strategy of having the blackguard built to fight the bulk of the party and having the blackguard's primary minion be designed solely keep the warblade busy. Maybe a grappler or someone with area control spells? How about a well-trained advanced rust monster?

Another thought is to use terrain to the NPCs' advantage. Don't give them a place where they can go just walk up and whomp on stuff. Make them go up a cliff or deal with flying enemies. Along this line... what about some well placed traps that the NPCs are aware of? Make the easy route to the biggest, baddest NPC also take the character right across a hidden trap that does somethingfairly bad - even a concealed deep pit might be adequate.

I'm gonna be using a mid-level wizard for crowd control and some flying minions yeah, they'll make things really tricky especially since the group has no optimized casters. Even the AbjChamp mostly uses his spells for items or channeling into strikes. Don't think I wanna use traps because it doesn't really fit the character.

[Kamin_Majere]

Also in reply to the other question, we're using an alternate AbjChamp and making him divine rather than arcane.

Ah ok, yeah that would work.


Would it be cheating/too evil for him cast Venomfire on a serpent, then immediately apply its venom to his blade? +9d6 per strike? I think that may be too much....

Yeah that might be a bit much, you are already mostly optimizing the build, and with +4 levels and an extra 9d6 per strike i'm afraid you might end up quickly in total party death scenarios


Well, there is always the strategy of having the blackguard built to fight the bulk of the party and having the blackguard's primary minion be designed solely keep the warblade busy. Maybe a grappler or someone with area control spells? How about a well-trained advanced rust monster?

Another thought is to use terrain to the NPCs' advantage. Don't give them a place where they can go just walk up and whomp on stuff. Make them go up a cliff or deal with flying enemies. Along this line... what about some well placed traps that the NPCs are aware of? Make the easy route to the biggest, baddest NPC also take the character right across a hidden trap that does somethingfairly bad - even a concealed deep pit might be adequate.

That's actually a pretty good idea. Have the Blackguard built to tank the lower level people and use him to taunt Barnabus as he's rendered helpless by the minions/cohort. A grappler or an enchanter could effectively take him out of the fight while the Blackguard has his (un)merry way with the rest of the party to make them ALL really hate the guy by the end of it. Could even still use the "they think hes good" get out of jail free card later if he add in some decent talks and maybe even refrains from killing the party members screaming "I dont want to have to kill you, but I have to defeat you, please run" or something much more creative

[RavynsLand]

Kay, couple more questions (also added a pic to the OP)

Best controller wizard? Enchanter, Telepath, Transmuter, Beguiler?

And can anyone recommend some flavorful flying monsters around CR 6-8 that don't have too many crazy powers? Looking for more a persistent nuisance/target than a heavy damager.

[Magesmiley]

I'm gonna be using a mid-level wizard for crowd control and some flying minions yeah, they'll make things really tricky especially since the group has no optimized casters. Even the AbjChamp mostly uses his spells for items or channeling into strikes. Don't think I wanna use traps because it doesn't really fit the character.

Would traps fit his primary minion though? If it is someone who specializes in making moving about the battlefield tough, then arguably, traps do fit.

Have the flying critters drop obnoxious stuff onto the battlefield too.

Another vile thing to do to control the party's mobility would be to put the battle on a sheet of ice. How are everyone's balance skills? An added bonus is that it makes the blackguard's sneak attack more effective.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Not... quite that much of a lesson.

Now that I've considered it a bit more, that one could work out quite well. Replace Extra Turning with Flyby Attack. The hundred-year truce made between the seelie and unseelie fey is coming to an end at the upcoming equinox or solstice (depending on the current season), and he wants to know what sort of celebration the seelie fey have planned for that so he can disrupt it. He cannot intrude on their lands personally, so he needs someone to gather this information for him. Seelie fey and unseelie fey know when someone they meet has made a pact with the other court, which is often described as an odor, and this is widely known (Kn: Nature DC 15). On to the PCs' involvement...

1. The party's current adventure causes them to trespass in the realm of the unseelie fey. They may kill a few weaker guardians (Twig Blight (MM2) Rogues and similar), so the elders send one of their champions to intercept the party. Keep in mind that fey are more mischievous than violent.

2. He zips in and out of the trees using Flyby Attack to knock them around a bit, but nothing major (Power Attack for -5 to hit, Dextrous Attack for -10 damage, so an attack bonus of +23 and 2d4+4 damage). He'll just be toying with them, testing their capabilities, and gauging their individual strength. His Smoking weapon will give them an automatic miss chance on every attack, they won't be able to hit his AC but he should make comments about them being 'unlucky' every miss regardless, and talk a lot.

3. Once he gets an idea of what they can handle, he'll give them an ultimatum. They go into the seelie fey territory and find out what they have planned for their equinox/solstice celebration, and he'll forgive their trespass and grant them passage through the unseelie lands. If anyone has decent Kn: Nature they'll realize that this is not something that they can easily accomplish, if at all. If they accept and go try to do this task they'll fail miserably, or they'll make a deal with the seelie fey, and the unseelie knight will smell their betrayal when he next meets them. In any case, if they don't perform perfectly for him he'll kill their strongest member in a display of strength, then shoo the rest of them away while Twig Blights or similar scamper off with the dead PC's corpse.

4. The PCs will probably have to go to the seelie fey for assistance, and may end up helping defend their seasonal celebration from the unseelie attacks. They can use some sort of plot device to neutralize the unseelie knight's defenses so the PCs can defeat him, though he'll definitely try to flee before he's killed. In any case, the desired target is dead and his corpse and gear stolen away for no chance of resurrection, and the seelie fey can aid the PCs in passing through the lands of the fey so they can continue their main quest.

[deuxhero]

Jorath (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?142470-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-%28As-seen-on-BG%29/page4) scales to pretty much any level. Have him allied with things that have save based abilities for optimal Fun.

[Zalphon]

Give Solarius this:

Terminus: A long sword that doesn't deal damage hitpoint damage, but issues 1d6 Negative Levels per hit.

Curse: The wielder must slay a sentient creature with Terminus every day or Terminus shall issue 1d10 Negative Levels to the wielder per day. It can not be rid of unless given to a willing receiver.

[Crake]

For blackguards I've always enjoyed the ubercharger cleric/blackguard with a scythe idea. Stack up PA bonuses and whatnot, then whack on the burst enchantments, then corrupt weapon from blackguard and surge of fortune from cleric for the auto 20, auto confirm vs good enemies. Not so much tanky, but pretty much a one shot kill every round, so it's a DPS tank. At ECL 15, you can have enough cleric levels to cast word of recall if the fight goes sour, or hell, just give him a contingent revivify/contingent heal/contingent word of recall for if he dies. Killing blow results in him just disappearing. Little do they know he's back to full hp, and in a safe place. Craft contingent spell has no arcane requirement, and no requirement on the ability to cast contingency, although if that feels cheesy to you, the time domain has contingency in it.

Probably give him a ring of counterspells with a greater dispel magic in it, so if they target him with a greater dispel magic, it gets countered, to protect his contingent spells.

[John Longarrow]

RavynsLand,

Small problem I hit relooking at Blackguard. Prereqs PA, Cleave, Improved Sunder.

First to are not bad for most builds, but last is just a sucky feat for most things. May mean what ever is built has Lvl 1 Fighter on a human to grab the three up front.

Alternately , skip the Blackguard dip and use Cleric/Prestige Paladin for the Blackguard side. What he does and how he does it are not dependant on class levels.

Course I also have a totally nasty verion that falls into the "Rat Bastard DM" category...

Louis.

Imp (Elite Stats) Str 10 Dex 12+6 Con 13 Int 15 Wis 8+2 Cha 14+4
3 HD to begin
Takes 2 levels of Beguiler
Takes 6 levels Fiend of Posession
Takes 1 level Fiend of Corruption
Takes 2 more levels Beguiler

Can cast 2nd level beguiler spells (CL 4), has alternate shape (humanoid) and can possess people.

Lou was inside the artifact. Lou is now inside your goodie goodie paladin. Lou is more than willing to get the players to kill off the paladin he's posessing, then comes back to mess with them.