The Consequences of Flawed Honor

[Palanan]

I'm working on a PC version of the Aristocrat, and I'm trying to work up a class feature to represent a strong preoccupation with social standing and personal honor. This will be the product of a culture in which honor and reputation are paramount, and insults or slander are worth killing over.

I'd like for this class feature to confer a few small-scale advantages plus a corresponding drawback or two. Right now I'm thinking a +2 to Diplomacy checks with nobles, aristocrats and elite warriors, and +2 to Intimidate with social inferiors, and perhaps a -4 to Will saves to resist being taunted or goaded.

But that hardly seems adequate. What would be a better way to approach this?

.

[Sian]

considered stealing the Noble class from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting?

[Vedhin]

considered stealing the Noble class from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting?

Oh please no. That class is horrible. A bard with no spells is better than it.


Anyway, how about something similar to Oriental Adventures Soul of Honor, giving you the ability to sense actions that would adversely affect your honor or alignment?

If you want a drawback, maybe add something similar to the Knight's Code of Conduct (PHBII)? Make it give penalties when not behaving honorably.

[The Oni]

Cavaliers from Pathfinder are also good for this. Each chooses an Order to join which dictates powers and code of conduct and they vary from the noble (Blue Rose) to the principled but nasty (Cockatrice). It'd probably be a good class for Aristocrats in general but if not, it's worth a look just for ideas.

[Vogonjeltz]

I'm working on a PC version of the Aristocrat, and I'm trying to work up a class feature to represent a strong preoccupation with social standing and personal honor. This will be the product of a culture in which honor and reputation are paramount, and insults or slander are worth killing over.

I'd like for this class feature to confer a few small-scale advantages plus a corresponding drawback or two. Right now I'm thinking a +2 to Diplomacy checks with nobles, aristocrats and elite warriors, and +2 to Intimidate with social inferiors, and perhaps a -4 to Will saves to resist being taunted or goaded.

But that hardly seems adequate. What would be a better way to approach this?

.

Why not just play the Knight? Thematically it's pretty spot on.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Vedhin
Anyway, how about something similar to Oriental Adventures Soul of Honor, giving you the ability to sense actions that would adversely affect your honor or alignment?

Interesting, I'll have to take a look at that. Not sure if that's the direction I want to go, but worth considering.


Originally Posted by Lord Smeagle
Cavaliers from Pathfinder are also good for this. Each chooses an Order to join which dictates powers and code of conduct and they vary from the noble (Blue Rose) to the principled but nasty (Cockatrice). It'd probably be a good class for Aristocrats in general but if not, it's worth a look just for ideas.

Very interesting, thanks. Definitely some interesting ideas in there.

[atemu1234]

Maybe I can make some suggestions for the system? Maybe there should be a score system, like leadership, but with different effects.
For example, I'd make a Loved and Feared system, two systems with similar concepts, but other effects.

Loved
>5 = No effect.
6-10 = +1 circumstance bonus on diplomacy and gather information checks.
11+ = +1 additional circumstance bonus on diplomacy and gather information checks for every 5 points above ten you are.
20 = You gain your first vassal (of a level no higher than 1/2 yours). This vassal can be of the following classes: Expert, Adept, Aristocrat, Warrior. This vassal is loyal to you. For every ten above 20 your score is, this number is squared (minimum +1). For the cost of 2 vassals, you may have a knight. (They, however, still count as two for the number squared).

Hated
>5 = No effect.
6-10= +1 circumstance bonus on intimidate and bluff checks.
11+ Same as on loved, but with intimidate and bluff.
20 = You gain territory. You rule a territory with an iron fist, and control about 100 persons (lvl 1 NPCs of NPC classes) per square mile. Your territory starts at 1 mile square and expands outward on all sides one mile for every ten your score goes above 20. (1, 9, 25, 49). You may tax your people up to 9 cp per person).

Loved:
Good alignment: +1
Aristocracy with an overall loved score: +2 per member of family.
Character Level*: +1 per two character levels
*only counts if you have a good or neutral alignment.
Evil alignment: -1
Class levels in an "evil" class*: -1 per two class levels.
*blackguard, etc.

Hated:
Evil alignment: +1
Hated Aristocracy: -2 per member of family.
Character level: Same as above but with evil or neutral alignment.
Good Alignment: -1
Class levels in an "evil" class: Same as above, but with bonus instead of penalty.

Well, that's my idea.

[Telonius]

Unearthed Arcana has Reputation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/reputation.htm) and Honor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/honor.htm) variant rules. That might be a good place to start looking.

[Sam K]

I'm working on a PC version of the Aristocrat, and I'm trying to work up a class feature to represent a strong preoccupation with social standing and personal honor. This will be the product of a culture in which honor and reputation are paramount, and insults or slander are worth killing over.

I'd like for this class feature to confer a few small-scale advantages plus a corresponding drawback or two. Right now I'm thinking a +2 to Diplomacy checks with nobles, aristocrats and elite warriors, and +2 to Intimidate with social inferiors, and perhaps a -4 to Will saves to resist being taunted or goaded.

But that hardly seems adequate. What would be a better way to approach this?

.

Well, what's the class like in general? Is it a skillmonkey with focus on social? A melee fighter? How do you imagine it playing and working with other classes?

It probably helps if the mechanics support the intended role for the class.

[Phelix-Mu]

I would model the benefits off of the church affiliation benefits from Complete Champion, which are tied to the affiliation rules in one of the later chapters in PHB2. Develop a ranking system modeling how many points in the "honor organization" the person has earned, then tiers to represent benefits, with better benefits as the person rises through the tiers. Affiliation setups are actually an interesting way to model cultural traits and such, but with a little more mechanical benefit.