Linear Guild was originally made as opposites to the Vector Legion

[CaDzilla]

Nale didn't really know about the Order till after his attempted coup. He may have first established the guild to deal with Tarquin and friends. If so, then most of the guild is an opposite of another Vector Legion member.
How do you solve this Vector problem? Linear algebra

[Jaxzan Proditor]

And which members are opposites of who and why? I especially don't see who Zz'dtri is opposite.

Edit: Also, since what counts as an "evil opposite" is somewhat up to interpretation, any member of the Linear Guild can be seen as the opposite of some one, using Nale's logic anyways.

[SavageWombat]

Hadn't thought of it before, but clearly Nale had been watching Elan to know what his party consisted of. Which probably means that Nale knew that Tarquin had been watching Elan too. Perhaps psionically.

[NerdyKris]

Nale didn't really know about the Order till after his attempted coup. He may have first established the guild to deal with Tarquin and friends. If so, then most of the guild is an opposite of another Vector Legion member.
How do solve this Vector problem? Linear algebra

Or they were just the people he had, and they happened to fit the evil opposite themes of the Order of the Stick because this is a universe that runs on the rules of drama.

From what we do know about his attempted coup, he only fought Malack, Tarquin, and their patsy. Not the entire Vector Legion. We have been given no indication that he ever planned on facing the entire team head on. His only target so far was Malack. He didn't seem to want to kill his father, just steal his empire. Hilgya even appeared to have been recruited on the Northern continent, not the western.

I can't even see any evil opposite themes between the Vector Legion and Linear Guilds. What ones do you see?

[CaDzilla]

And which members are opposites of who and why? I especially don't see who Zz'dtri is opposite.

Laurin. She hates elves enough to go on an unprovoked rant to Vaarsuvius, while Zz'dtri never really brings up Vaarsuvius' heritage, even though he has every reason to. Laurin also might be NE

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Laurin. She hates elves enough to go on an unprovoked rant to Vaarsuvius, while Zz'dtri never really brings up Vaarsuvius' heritage, even though he has every reason to. Laurin also might be NE

This is exactly what I mean. Every person is opposite another person in some other way. Using Zz'dtri as an example:
He is the opposite of Tarquin because he fights with spells and Tarquin uses weapons. Also, Tarquin likes to talk a lot and Zz'dtri doesn't (not as much as Vaarsuvius, but still quite a bit).

He is the opposite of Miron because Miron does things for money and other gains, whereas Zz'dtri is motivated by his hatred of Vaarsuvius.

He is the opposite of Jacinda because he is male and she is female.

He is the opposite of SPG because of similar reasons with Tarquin (melee vs. ranged)

He is the opposite of Malack because Malack is undead and he is living.

And you already gave one for Laurin.

[CaDzilla]

This is exactly what I mean. Every person is opposite another person in some other way. Using Zz'dtri as an example:
He is the opposite of Tarquin because he fights with spells and Tarquin uses weapons. Also, Tarquin likes to talk a lot and Zz'dtri doesn't (not as much as Vaarsuvius, but still quite a bit).

He is the opposite of Miron because Miron does things for money and other gains, whereas Zz'dtri is motivated by his hatred of Vaarsuvius.

He is the opposite of Jacinda because he is male and she is female.

He is the opposite of SPG because of similar reasons with Tarquin (melee vs. ranged)

He is the opposite of Malack because Malack is undead and he is living.

And you already gave one for Laurin.

Realized another thing, more opposite traits can be found comparing Tarquin to a Linear guild member

[Flame of Anor]

I can't even see any evil opposite themes between the Vector Legion and Linear Guilds. What ones do you see?

Here's what I could come up with for parallels:


Nale and Tarquin: related
Thog and Shoulder-Pads Guy: both fighters
Yikyik and Jacinda: both nonhuman rogues
Zz'dtri and Miron: both wizards
Sabine and Laurin: both unusual magical women
Hilgya and Malack: both clerics


There aren't really a lot of opposite relationships here, though. It's hard to have an evil opposite of another evil team. Maybe Nale just based the Linear Guild on the Vector Legion's model.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Here's what I could come up with for parallels:


Nale and Tarquin: related
Thog and Shoulder-Pads Guy: both fighters
Yikyik and Jacinda: both nonhuman rogues
Zz'dtri and Miron: both wizards
Sabine and Laurin: both unusual magical women
Hilgya and Malack: both clerics


There aren't really a lot of opposite relationships here, though. It's hard to have an evil opposite of another evil team. Maybe Nale just based the Linear Guild on the Vector Legion's model.

Evil opposites themselves are hard to find. However, all the OP originally said was "opposites". If you just look at opposites, there are more. In fact, so many more that it becomes kind of meaningless.

[Kish]

Actually, Roy cannot fulfill Eugene Greenhilt's Blood Oath because he's not actually Eugene's son at all, but rather the clone of a character who will be introduced halfway through Book 7.


Yikyik and Jacinda: both nonhuman rogues
Yikyik was not a rogue.

[CaDzilla]

There aren't really a lot of opposite relationships here, though. It's hard to have an evil opposite of another evil team. Maybe Nale just based the Linear Guild on the Vector Legion's model.

That's probably the best explanation

[Keltest]

That's probably the best explanation

in this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0725.html) you can see that Nale had Thog, Sabine, and the first Kobold who's name I can never remember. If I had to hazard a guess, he picked up Z and Hilgya to fill the roles of primary Arcane and Divine spell casters, since his multiclassing limited him somewhat in magic.

[Gift Jeraff]

The Vector Legion is actually the evil opposite of the Order of the Scribble (evil adventurers from a previous generation who spent retirement working together vs good adventurers from a previous generation who spent retirement working separately):

Soon : Tarquin or nameless guy
Lirian : Malack
Girard : Miron
Serini : Jacinda
Kraagor : Tarquin or nameless guy
Dorukan : Laurin

In all seriousness, I don't think there are supposed to be any parallels between the Legion and any of the other adventuring parties. Same goes for the Scribblers.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I think all the groups are supposed to be relatively basic set ups, as far as roles go. This would explain the similarities.

[Keltest]

I think all the groups are supposed to be relatively basic set ups, as far as roles go. This would explain the similarities.

Tarquin's "Warrior, Divine, Arcane, Utility, Jack of all Trades, Foil" model?

[Kish]

Rich Burlew's "Primary Warrior And Leader, Secondary Warrior, Divine Caster, Rogue, Primary Arcane Caster, Secondary Arcane Caster" model.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Rich Burlew's "Primary Warrior And Leader, Secondary Warrior, Divine Caster, Rogue, Primary Arcane Caster, Secondary Arcane Caster" model.

Yes, that's what I had in mind. Not everyone perfectly fits those roles, but they're all pretty close.

[Keltest]

Rich Burlew's "Primary Warrior And Leader, Secondary Warrior, Divine Caster, Rogue, Primary Arcane Caster, Secondary Arcane Caster" model.

Nale isn't the "Primary warrior" of the linear guild. And how are you defining "Primary" vs "Secondary" of a role?

[Kish]

1) What does Nale have to do with--oh, you're of the opinion Thog wasn't the leader of the Linear Guild. Never mind, then.
2) Well, it could mean the difference between a bard and a wizard, or the difference between a triple-multiclassed sorcerer and a wizard, or the difference between a single-classed wizard with Epic Spellcasting and a sorcerer/ranger without epic spellcasting. Or it could be the difference between twelve wormholes and one Horrid Wilting. Or it could be the difference between Thog and Yikyik, or between Roy and someone he knocked back to Basic.

[zimmerwald1915]

Rich Burlew's "Primary Warrior And Leader, Secondary Warrior, Divine Caster, Rogue, Primary Arcane Caster, Secondary Arcane Caster" model.
If you're looking for models, here's one:



Team
Order
Guild (original)
Legion


Leader
Roy
Nale
Laurin/SPG


Second
Haley
Sabine
Laurin/SPG


Primary Comic
Elan
Thog
Tarquin


Arcane Caster
Vaarsuvius
Zz'dtri
Miron


Divine Caster
Durkon
Hilgya
Malack


Secondary Comic
Belkar
Yikyik
Jacinda

[zimmerwald1915]

Rich Burlew's "Primary Warrior And Leader, Secondary Warrior, Divine Caster, Rogue, Primary Arcane Caster, Secondary Arcane Caster" model.
If you're looking for models, here's one:



Team
Order
Guild (original)
Legion


Leader
Roy
Nale
Laurin/SPG


Second
Haley
Sabine
Laurin/SPG


Primary Comic
Elan
Thog
Tarquin


Arcane Caster
Vaarsuvius
Zz'dtri
Miron


Divine Caster
Durkon
Hilgya
Malack


Secondary Comic
Belkar
Yikyik
Jacinda


Heh, putting the groups in order of first in-panel appearance gives the acronym "OGL." Just one of those funny, meaningless coincidences.

[ChristianSt]

Heh, putting the groups in order of first in-panel appearance gives the acronym "OGL." Just one of those funny, meaningless coincidences.

So in order to arrive at this conclusion you need to randomly drop the first word of two of those groups, or you arrive at "OLV" :smalltongue:

[zimmerwald1915]

So in order to arrive at this conclusion you need to randomly drop the first word of two of those groups, or you arrive at "OLV" :smalltongue:
Hardly random, you need merely drop the adjectival bits :smalltongue:

[Keltest]

If you're looking for models, here's one:



Team
Order
Guild (original)
Legion


Leader
Roy
Nale
Laurin/SPG


Second
Haley
Sabine
Laurin/SPG


Primary Comic
Elan
Thog
Tarquin


Arcane Caster
Vaarsuvius
Zz'dtri
Miron


Divine Caster
Durkon
Hilgya
Malack


Secondary Comic
Belkar
Yikyik
Jacinda


Heh, putting the groups in order of first in-panel appearance gives the acronym "OGL." Just one of those funny, meaningless coincidences.
Why do people refuse to believe Tarquin was the leader? Was there some bonus comic where Laurin or Miron told him that he was never their leader or something?

[CaDzilla]

Why do people refuse to believe Tarquin was the leader? Was there some bonus comic where Laurin or Miron told him that he was never their leader or something?

Tarquin is pretty much the Elan of the Vector Legion. According to his warped logic, it meant he was the leader. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?318550-The-rapid-change-in-Tarquin/page4&p=16575471#post16575471)

[Keltest]

Tarquin is pretty much the Elan of the Vector Legion. According to his warped logic, it meant he was the leader. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?318550-The-rapid-change-in-Tarquin/page4&p=16575471#post16575471)

Ah, I see.

[Synar]

If you're looking for models, here's one:



Team
Order
Guild (original)
Legion


Leader
Roy
Nale
Laurin/SPG


Second
Haley
Sabine
Laurin/SPG


Primary Comic
Elan
Thog
Tarquin


Arcane Caster
Vaarsuvius
Zz'dtri
Miron


Divine Caster
Durkon
Hilgya
Malack


Secondary Comic
Belkar
Yikyik
Jacinda


Heh, putting the groups in order of first in-panel appearance gives the acronym "OGL." Just one of those funny, meaningless coincidences.


Hum, I believe that the Vector Legion actually has NO leader, with a system of favors among equals. But if anyone would have to fill the leader slot, I think it should be Tarquin. Here is why:
-Tarquin suggested the original plan, mean of operation, and great scheme that they are still following.
-Tarquin basically commanded Malack, deciding what were the priorities and objectives during the "Linear Guild" pyramid exploration.
-Malck himself refered to Tarquin as a general of Tarquin calibre (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html), and he wasn't being sarcastic. He certainly (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0876.html) (notice the "also") did not think of him as a comic foil.
-The narrative lore he possess does give him a tactical edge when he is controlling himself.
-If you believe Laurin has demonstrated any evidence that she possess any tactical knowledge, leadership ability, or that others obey her or see her as their leader?
-I can't even begin to understand how you could get to the conclusion that SPG is a leader.
-What aspect of Jacinda is funny? She's a catgirl? She killed someone?