PDA

View Full Version : Necromacers



Cowboy_ninja
2007-02-08, 12:03 PM
few questions on this subjuect:

1) wasn't there a forum a while back by what's-his-face- ninja that compared all the different necromacers builds? can someone direct me to it please?

2) is there some way of reducing or eliminateing that pesky 25 GP onyx needed for each undead? make it cheaper or getting it for free... i seem to recall a create object spell but i cant find it.

3) got any other tips for running necromacers or summoners in general?

4) in unearthed arcana. can one take the speciallist wizard variants AND the domain wizard variant?

Druid
2007-02-08, 12:19 PM
1. Don't know.

2. I think that there's a PrC in Lybris Mortis that will eliminate the material component for raise dead.

3. If you want to be a summoner play a druid. If you want to play a necromanceryou should probably be a cleric.

4. That's entirley up to your DM

Quietus
2007-02-08, 12:21 PM
Just for argument's sake, I believe that the "Plague of Undead" spell in Libris Mortis doesn't require you to blow money on Onyx for your undead, and it can raise an entire graveyard at once.


That being said, it's an eighth level spell. Also, why are you so worried about the gems? It isn't like they're expensive!

Mewtarthio
2007-02-08, 12:25 PM
4) in unearthed arcana. can one take the speciallist wizard variants AND the domain wizard variant?

For the love of all that is good, pure, and righteous in this world, no! Wizards are powerful enough as it is!

Besides, Domain Wizards are meant to replace Specialist Wizards. I've never understood that, though: It would make more sense to me if Sorcerors (with their innate magic skills) were more attuned to particular forms of magic.

Oh, and if you want to play a Necromancer, take a look at the Dread Necromancer base class.

Cowboy_ninja
2007-02-08, 12:37 PM
For the love of all that is good, pure, and righteous in this world, no! Wizards are powerful enough as it is!

Besides, Domain Wizards are meant to replace Specialist Wizards. I've never understood that, though: It would make more sense to me if Sorcerors (with their innate magic skills) were more attuned to particular forms of magic.

Oh, and if you want to play a Necromancer, take a look at the Dread Necromancer base class.

an necromacer BASE class? where!

5) this question comes form lybris mortis: if i metamagically cast create undead with fell animate. does that mean that when the created undead kills someone theymay rise as a zombie? but just in general how does metamagiaclly casting summoning spells work?

6) how do i get a goofy looking icon in the side? since they upgraded the forums i cant figure it out! ( :

Sir_Ophiuchus
2007-02-08, 12:38 PM
Oh, and if you want to play a Necromancer, take a look at the Dread Necromancer base class.


Which is in Heroes of Horror. And is a class seething with awesomeness. Don't expect your DM to like it, though. :)

Jack Mann
2007-02-08, 12:42 PM
Dread necromancer is in Heroes of Horror. Eventually, you become a lich.

Khantalas
2007-02-08, 12:49 PM
Corpse macers? Huh?

Either that's a typo, or I'm seriously disturbed.

If you meant necromancer, I agree that dread necromancer is the way to go. Take tomb-tainted soul if the DM allows re-training. You can enter each battle at full health every time.

Not neccessarily at full resources, but that's how it works.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-08, 12:51 PM
Corpse macers? Huh?

Either that's a typo, or I'm seriously disturbed.

The mace. It's made out of people! PEEEEEOOOOOPPPPPPLLLLLEEEEE!

Cowboy_ninja
2007-02-08, 01:00 PM
what about metamgaic and summoning? my #5 question.

7) if you get a domain through "arcane deciple" (from complete divine) do you get the granted power?

wormwood
2007-02-08, 01:01 PM
Also, why are you so worried about the gems? It isn't like they're expensive!

Then your DM is getting trigger-happy with the "loot" button. It's QUITE expensive if you make enough undead to have them be useful.

its_all_ogre
2007-02-08, 03:52 PM
simple magic item: has limitless low value gems(say onyx, 25 gp each) they fade away to nothing within 2 rounds of being drawn from the bag.
you cannot sell the gems, so no money issues, but you can create undead to your hearts content.
this was a small item given to my specialist necro when we played an evil campaign a few years back.
also get necromancy from mongoose games, has some awesome spells in it and prestige classes too. not overpowered, but good complementary spells.
oh and necromantic feats(slobber!)

God_of_Luck
2007-02-08, 04:54 PM
Cowboy_Ninja, you might be refering to this thread at the WotC boards:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=599129

TSGames
2007-02-08, 05:05 PM
5) this question comes form lybris mortis: if i metamagically cast create undead with fell animate. does that mean that when the created undead kills someone theymay rise as a zombie? but just in general how does metamagiaclly casting summoning spells work?

No. You have to use fell animate with a spell that kills something(or maybe just a damaging spell).

Mewtarthio
2007-02-08, 05:10 PM
simple magic item: has limitless low value gems(say onyx, 25 gp each) they fade away to nothing within 2 rounds of being drawn from the bag.
you cannot sell the gems, so no money issues, but you can create undead to your hearts content.
this was a small item given to my specialist necro when we played an evil campaign a few years back.
also get necromancy from mongoose games, has some awesome spells in it and prestige classes too. not overpowered, but good complementary spells.
oh and necromantic feats(slobber!)

Well, if you can get your DM to give you a magic item that eliminates the material components of certain spells, then, yes, it is cheap. However, bear in mind that you're getting a magic item that eliminates important material component costs. I would not count on this being accepted.

Cowboy_ninja
2007-02-08, 05:12 PM
No. You have to use fell animate with a spell that kills something(or maybe just a damaging spell).

zombies kill stuff :smalltongue:

druids summon animals, necromacers summon undead, that one PrC in DMG is good with the summon monster spell (extra planar), what summons things like golems, or giants, or big intimidateing things with teeth (purple worms, and other dragon-ish things)

Malek
2007-02-08, 05:18 PM
As for necromancers IMO the best non-divine necromancer is accesible from "Dark Arts of Necromancy" splatbook (Pdf should stil be buyable from some online stores IIRC). If you can spend that $5-$10 for the splatbook I recomend it :)

Cowboy_ninja
2007-02-08, 06:08 PM
8) dread necromacer gets "undead mastery" which is essentially the feat courpse crafter and then some. but can "undead mastery" replace courpse crafter as the prerequisite for feats like nimble bones, hardened flesh, etc.?

Jack Mann
2007-02-08, 06:21 PM
8) If your DM says it can. Otherwise, probably not.

Renrik
2007-02-09, 03:46 PM
Heh heh. I'm running a campain in which all of dwarven society is based on anscestor-worship. Except, you know, it's not normal anscestor worship. It's necromancy.

So pretty much, all of the necromantic lore in that campaign will be flowing out of the traditions of the dwarven Death-Preists.

Cowboy_ninja
2007-02-09, 06:02 PM
Cowboy_Ninja, you might be refering to this thread at the WotC boards:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=599129

yep thats the one thanks!

Quirinus_Obsidian
2007-02-09, 06:37 PM
Dread Necromancers are AWESOME after level 8. If it were possible; I would love to have Animate Dead without the need for the material component...

Hmmm.. Innate Spell (Animate Dead)!

Collin152
2007-02-09, 07:10 PM
simple magic item: has limitless low value gems(say onyx, 25 gp each) they fade away to nothing within 2 rounds of being drawn from the bag.
you cannot sell the gems, so no money issues, but you can create undead to your hearts content.
this was a small item given to my specialist necro when we played an evil campaign a few years back.
also get necromancy from mongoose games, has some awesome spells in it and prestige classes too. not overpowered, but good complementary spells.
oh and necromantic feats(slobber!)
Non-permanent objects cant be used as spell components. look in the decritption of the "Creation" spells

Quietus
2007-02-09, 07:15 PM
Then your DM is getting trigger-happy with the "loot" button. It's QUITE expensive if you make enough undead to have them be useful.

I would only use a selection of skeletons if I were to try and take over a place filled with commoners; Much easier than casting a few fireballs/lightning bolts and then letting everyone relax for a day before I show up tomorrow and do the same thing.

For a particularly frightening bunch of undead, I fire up a wand of Blade of Pain and Fear, and give one to each of my skeletons. Something like 1d8+10 damage with a will save or fear or something to that effect. Not really necessary, but fun!

Zincorium
2007-02-09, 07:53 PM
Dread Necromancers are AWESOME after level 8. If it were possible; I would love to have Animate Dead without the need for the material component...

Hmmm.. Innate Spell (Animate Dead)!

Pale Master, 2 level dip. It's limited as to how many times you can use it per day, but since they last until destroyed, you should generally have time. Use the material component version when you need to raise an army quickly.

its_all_ogre
2007-02-10, 03:30 AM
Non-permanent objects cant be used as spell components. look in the decritption of the "Creation" spells

well if the dm designs an item so that it can do exactly that, as dm's can change whatever rules they like etc......

Destro_Yersul
2007-02-10, 06:39 AM
If you use Archmage you can take animate dead as a spell-like ability. *Evil grin* Best part is, this ability doesn't use components. Sure it's 2/day in exchange for one 4th level slot, but those undead can be prepared beforehand. Then they just last and last...

Collin152
2007-02-10, 08:05 PM
well if the dm designs an item so that it can do exactly that, as dm's can change whatever rules they like etc......
If the DM want's there to be no Material COmponant for Animate dead, he should just say so. otherwise, stop making things too easy to acomplish! There are many spells with hard to obtain material componants. Such an Item is worse than Pun-Pun!






No, wait- Its not. Nothing is. NOting is greater then Pun-Pun. So craft yourself some nothing. :D

Jack Mann
2007-02-10, 11:01 PM
Oh, almost forgot.

#7: No. Arcane Disciple doesn't give you the domain. It gives you access to the spells of that domain, no more, no less.

Ramza00
2007-02-10, 11:09 PM
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=759515

clockwork warrior
2007-02-11, 01:47 AM
If you use Archmage you can take animate dead as a spell-like ability. *Evil grin* Best part is, this ability doesn't use components. Sure it's 2/day in exchange for one 4th level slot, but those undead can be prepared beforehand. Then they just last and last...sorry, but thats not going to work, even though you dont need the material components, your going to pay heavily with xp for that

"The archmage does not use any components when casting the spell, although a spell that costs XP to cast still does so and a spell with a costly material component instead costs her 10 times that amount in XP"

NecroPaladin
2007-02-11, 01:54 AM
Despite being an undead character, the main thing that I have gained from this thread is the ultimate sums-it-all-up description of good clerics and paladins who FIGHT necromancers...

"Corpse Macers"

Because the entire point of fighting against necromancer villains is that they got a lotta corpses, and you got a big mace.

PinkysBrain
2007-02-11, 02:14 AM
The Spellstitched Creature template can give you (if you are undead) or one of your controlled undead (or perhaps your stitched flesh familiar) animate dead with no material cost.

Ashes
2007-02-11, 05:35 PM
Heh heh. I'm running a campain in which all of dwarven society is based on anscestor-worship. Except, you know, it's not normal anscestor worship. It's necromancy.

So pretty much, all of the necromantic lore in that campaign will be flowing out of the traditions of the dwarven Death-Preists.

Deathgate Cycle much? No, it's cool, it's great idea. And if you haven't read the books, you really should. G.R.E.A.T.

Quietus
2007-02-11, 06:14 PM
Despite being an undead character, the main thing that I have gained from this thread is the ultimate sums-it-all-up description of good clerics and paladins who FIGHT necromancers...

"Corpse Macers"

Because the entire point of fighting against necromancer villains is that they got a lotta corpses, and you got a big mace.

Why use a mace when you can turn them?

Of course, I've got my True Necromancer.... when he makes a plain skeleton, thanks to the CorpseCrafter (I think) feat, they automatically have +4 turn resistance. Then I have another feat (i'm afraid I cant' remember the name, think it was in Libris Mortis) which gives another +4 turn resistance to anything within 40 or 60 feet of me. Thus making my skeletons have 9 HD for the purpose of turning. Then there's my Darkskull at my hip, which gives anyone within the range of my Unhallow effect a -3 penalty to their turning....

I could annoy low level clerics so well...

Cowboy_ninja
2007-02-19, 11:46 PM
Can these stack?
-Enhanced undead (variant rule for necromacer wizards unearthed arcana)
-courpse crafter (feat)
-Augmented summoning

and again summoning spells kill. so can i use fell animate with them?

PinkysBrain
2007-02-20, 07:28 AM
and again summoning spells kill. so can i use fell animate with them?
Depends on your DM. I wouldn't let you bring sophistry to the table too.

Ranis
2007-02-20, 09:51 AM
I like this idea of a mace made from corpses. Anyone have the making price, spells involved, feats involved, or anything like that for a mace from an existing sourcebook?

illithid13
2007-02-20, 10:23 AM
The Spellstitched Creature template can give you (if you are undead) or one of your controlled undead (or perhaps your stitched flesh familiar) animate dead with no material cost.

Spellstiched Necropoliton necromancers are just truely amazing. One DM that I played with allowed me to play one (we even worked out the event of my character becoming one in the campaign), and he was awesome! The best part I think was the fact that I rolled amazing stats, 4 18's and a 16 and a 12... guess what was my dump stat?:belkar:

Needless to say, My DM loved my character that he took a copy of the character sheat and used him as a future villan against his group, and I came in as a special NPC guest player for the encounters for that campaign. Was great fun!

Dausuul
2007-02-20, 11:00 AM
The material component for Animate Dead is not expensive unless you have a real cheapskate DM. Look at the wealth-by-level guidelines for characters of the appropriate level. It's only expensive if you treat your undead minions as throwaway mooks, rather than giving them proper care and... well, not feeding, but you get the idea.

300 gp of onyx will get you a 12 Hit Die undead for the cost of one potion of cure moderate wounds. You can get over 90 Hit Dice of undead for the cost of a +1 weapon. How is that expensive?

Ramza00
2007-02-20, 11:02 AM
300 gp of onyx will get you a 12 Hit Die undead for the cost of one potion of cure moderate wounds. How is that expensive?
You get an annoying DM who thinks Onyx is a rare commodity since its a rare form of rock. It has to be mined and all that.

Starbuck_II
2007-02-20, 11:18 AM
You get an annoying DM who thinks Onyx is a rare commodity since its a rare form of rock. It has to be mined and all that.
The more Onyx costs the less you need. So rarity works in your favor.

SpiderBrigade
2007-02-20, 12:39 PM
Yeah, if your DM is deciding that there isn't enough onyx around for you to use he's basically just deciding to screw you over. It's like if he decided that his campaign setting has no bats, so you can't cast fireball.

Seriously, onyx isn't even a rare gem. It's a pretty form of quartz. The GP cost is supposed to be the balancing factor, not some kind of epic quest to mine the rare stone from the living rock. Unless your DM requires that kind of thing for all costly material components, he's selectively hosing necromancers.

Now, if we're talking about a nation of necromantic wizards building armies of millions of undead...maybe there's a point where you could run out of stones. But 300 GP for a 12 HD skeleton? Not so much.

Ramza00
2007-02-20, 03:36 PM
I agree SpiderBrigade, of course if you play a dread necro with a rod of undead leadership/master (whatever its called that doubles the number of undead you can controll in LM) it can come up. It hasn't come up with my experience, but some people have DMs that have there own idea on how to play D&D if you get what I mean.

Zincorium
2007-02-20, 05:13 PM
Like I said, two level dip in Pale Master. The class itself is mostly useless to a dread necromancer, but that second level ability will, if you have sufficient time, let you raise however many undead thingies you need.

TSGames
2007-02-20, 06:01 PM
Can these stack?
and again summoning spells kill. so can i use fell animate with them?
No they don't. The things the spells create kill, the spell doesn't kill.

SpiderBrigade
2007-02-20, 06:05 PM
hmm, interesting corrollary, there: can you apply Fell Animate to conjuration: creation spells? Since technically the spell creates, say, a blob of acid...and then the acid does the damage? :smallbiggrin:

But yeah, summon spells don't kill people. Summoned celestial bears kill people.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-20, 09:52 PM
Like I said, two level dip in Pale Master. The class itself is mostly useless to a dread necromancer, but that second level ability will, if you have sufficient time, let you raise however many undead thingies you need.

Umm... a Pale Master's ability to raise a corpse that dies from his touch is his capstone 10th level ability... at least it was in T&B... don't know about the re-released version in CompArc... don't have any of the Complete series yet.

SpiderBrigade
2007-02-20, 11:00 PM
Yes, but at 2d level he can cast Animate Dead, once per day, without the material component. That's what he meant.

Edit: also, it's in Libris Mortis, not Comp.Arc.

Zincorium
2007-02-20, 11:13 PM
Umm... a Pale Master's ability to raise a corpse that dies from his touch is his capstone 10th level ability... at least it was in T&B... don't know about the re-released version in CompArc... don't have any of the Complete series yet.

Yes, and Tome and Blood is 3.0, and thus if there is any updated version, it's null and void. Pale master was re-released in Libris Mortis, which is a book you should get anyway if you're going to be spending a lot of effort being a necromancer. It's 3.5 and the most updated version, and it get's animate dead as a once per day ability that specifically does not have material components. As it's first class feature, not it's capstone. It's got other semi-nifty abilities that involve turning into a quasi undead, but a dread necromancer gets those anyway.

Ramza00
2007-02-20, 11:31 PM
Most of the Pale Master is a trap for a Dread Necro. Only really good abilities are the (DN replicates being an undead or you are a necropolitan who is going to get True Resurrected at lvl 20 prior to becoming a lich)

2nd lvl Animate Dead without components
9th lvl Gives Undead Cohort
10th Punch a person once a day, they make a fortitude save, if they fail they raise as a zombie that doesn't count towards your Undead Limit.

Of course if you prc out of Dread Necro after 8 it Undead Mastery (thing that allows you to control lots of undead) doesn't progress since its based off class levels. The 10th lvl ability isn't that good for if you compare it to a Dread Necro 18 (with a rod of undead allows you to have twice your normal amount of undead) you already have more undead than you know what to do with.

Thus the real benefits are PM 2 free animate dead, but animate dead is cheap anyway (equipping said undead isn't) Remember you lose a caster level to get this
And PM 9 cohort

I rather just stay a pure DN or maybe 1 lvl of Sandshaper.