Is it normal to ban non-ten levels prcs?

[atemu1234]

Title says it all. Like, if a PC wanted to use a 5-level prestige class, is it bad to say no, you have to take ten level prestige classes or not at all?

[HighWater]

Depends on the why?

[atemu1234]

He seems to think that they add less to the character flavor-wise, and feels that they are much easier to get through and thus more breakable. He also only lets you take one prestige class at a time. This is a new DM (not to the game, I just joined this group) and I think he's trying to stop rampant optimization, and I was wondering if this is at all actually effective.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The number and length of prestige classes in a build has little to do with its optimization. You can make a gamebreaking build with ten levels of one PrC as easily as a barely functioning one that consists of nothing but 1-2 level dips in ten different prestige classes.

Flavor is something that should come from RP, not from mechanics.

That said, it's not a dealbreaker. If he wants to run his games that way that's his prerogative. You might want to wait until you've played with him for a bit before bringing it up since it has the potential to start an argument.

[Studoku]

It stops certain methods of optimization. Mostly those related to melee characters trying to compete with casters. Casters will just go wizard 20 or base x/fullcasting prc 10 and have everything they normally would.

Players having multiple PrCs is not gamebreaking in itself- you pay for it by having multiple sets of prereqs to meet- which often dictates your skills and feats. Saying it adds less "flavor-wise" is textbook Stormwind fallacy. There's no reason a fully fleshed out, roleplayed character can't have multiple PrCs and there's nothing that makes a wizard 20 somehow an interesting character.

[BowStreetRunner]

Every DM has their own idea about what to ban. I've heard of DMs who ban Dwarves because they are overpowered, all non-core materials as they are too broken, Psionics because they tend to cause the DM headaches, and even DMs who ban back-stories for the PCs because...well...I'm not actually sure I ever understood the reasoning behind that last one, but it appears to be more common than I would have expected.

The fact of the matter is the DM has their own idea of how they want the game to work, and the players need to respect this if they want to get anywhere with their requests to the DM. That doesn't mean there is no room for negotiation. You just need to start by showing the DM that you are willing to work with them, not against them.

In this instance, if there is a 5-level PrC in which you are interested, you might ask the DM if there is a way to extend the PrC out into a 10-level PrC. In fact, if you and the DM are having a hard time figuring out how to manage it, I even know a site (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?59-D-amp-D-3e-3-5e-d20) were you can find other gamers who would probably be willing to offer suggestions and help with such a project. :smallwink:

[nedz]

Is there anything to stop you take dips in multiple 10-level PrCs ?

Incidentally most of the broken PrCs have 10 levels, but they do tend to be caster PrCs.

[ericgrau]

It's not normal to ban that specifically, but it's typical for DMs to have all kinds of quirks. It doesn't seem like a huge deal.



The fact of the matter is the DM has their own idea of how they want the game to work, and the players need to respect this if they want to get anywhere with their requests to the DM. That doesn't mean there is no room for negotiation. You just need to start by showing the DM that you are willing to work with them, not against them.
Pretty much this. You live with the minor weird stuff the DM gives. Maybe ask about changing it, but be happy that someone is willing to blow all the time it takes to DM.

There are still a million ways to optimize and abuse the system. But this house rule at least stops the seven class silliness. I've played with the rule and no one really cared because none of us tend to take a lot of classes anyway. If that's the case with your group, it could help keep one guy from getting much crazier with multi-prc-classing than others are willing to bother with. If everyone tends to do it, then it could mostly be annoying and limiting. In the first case I'd accept it and move on; it may even help slightly. In the 2nd case I might ask about changing it but since it's minor if it's not changing I'd quickly accept it and move on.

[WhamBamSam]

Flavor is something that should come from RP, not from mechanics.I disagree somewhat. The mechanics are part of telling the story, and it stands to reason that they will inform the flavor/roleplaying.

I would also say that the mechanics best support character flavor and roleplaying when they're less restricted, and the player has more freedom to optimize toward the character concept.


That said, it's not a dealbreaker. If he wants to run his games that way that's his prerogative. You might want to wait until you've played with him for a bit before bringing it up since it has the potential to start an argument.This however, I agree with. Try to play by the DM's rules and in accordance with the optimization level of the rest of the table. Don't go rolling a Druid 5/Planar Shepherd 10/Druid 5 just to make a point.

[hymer]

I'll echo the "Not a big deal if perhaps quirky", and add that the DMG encourages the DM to keep a tight rein on prestige classes and not just allow any of them into his campaign. Not that this sort of ban seems very tight, but it's still tighter than not banning them.