typical crit exotic weapon build?

[CyberThread]

What is a typical exotic weapon crit build?

[nyjastul69]

I'll ask becuase someone has to: Is Disciple of Dispater shenangins allowed?

[Seerow]

Probably want 7 levels of Psionic Weapon Master.

For weapon, a Mercurial Elven Courtblade is a good place to start for crit fishing (with Imp Crit and PWM you're looking at 13-20x4 with the ability to increase that multiplier to 5 a few times a day)

[CyberThread]

Yep level 8 and all

[Seerow]

Yep level 8 and all

Well that just makes it easy. Any weapon with 18-20 crit range, add improved crit (15-20), add 8 levels of Disciple (5-20). Not much that's going to improve on that (though getting a Mercurial Weapon for the x4 crit damage is still a good idea), so just fill in the blanks with typical power attack focused classes/feats, to stack up the flat damage to get multiplied.


Edit: My bad, forgot the multiplication rules in D&D. It's 9-20 not 5-20. But still. PWM is the only other source of crit range reduction I'm aware of, and it's impossible to squeeze enough levels of both into a single build to get it reduced further. Maybe there's something else out there, but I'd be pretty happy with a >50% crit rate with enough base damage.

[Red Fel]

As I recall, a popular choice involves the Lightning Mace feat, Disciple of Dispater plus Improved Critical (or Kaorti Resin weapon, I don't think they stack since Kaorti Resin isn't metal), Blood in the Water from ToB, then static damage bonuses (because they get multiplied on crit) such as Collision or Craven.

Many people also use an Aptitude weapon with a good crit, such as Aptitude Kukris. On one interpretation of the Aptitude quality, it allows that weapon to qualify for any weapon-type feat. In this case, Aptitude Kukris could theoretically count as Maces for purposes of the Lightning Mace feat.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Falchion would be my best bet in that case, or Kukris for Blood in the water shenanigans.

[nyjastul69]

Falchion would be my best bet in that case, or Kukris for Blood in the water shenanigans.

A falchion is not an exotic weapon.

[Red Fel]

A falchion is not an exotic weapon.

It is if it's made from Kaorti Resin. Although then you run into the Disciple of Dispater issue again.

[nyjastul69]

It is if it's made from Kaorti Resin. Although then you run into the Disciple of Dispater issue again.

Of course, sorry, carry on.

[Seerow]

It is if it's made from Kaorti Resin. Although then you run into the Disciple of Dispater issue again.

Mercurial gives the same benefit as Kaorti Resin, but rather than being made out of a non-metal material is made by modifying the inside of the weapon. So does work with the Disciple, and even still makes the weapon exotic.

[Red Fel]

Mercurial gives the same benefit as Kaorti Resin, but rather than being made out of a non-metal material is made by modifying the inside of the weapon. So does work with the Disciple, and even still makes the weapon exotic.

Huh. Did not know that bit about Mercurial. That's a bit of awesome, actually. Yeah, I dig it.

So instead of Kaorti Resin (which has all sorts of fluff requirements anyway), you could dual-wield Aptitude Collision Mercurial Kukris (with the appropriate EWP) while using Blood in the Water, Lightning Mace, Craven, Disciple of Dispater 8, and so forth, and pretty much crit everything forever.

[Ravens_cry]

Remember though, you still need to hit on any critical threat besides a natural 20. So don't forget to invest in actually hitting things.

[animewatcha]

Where does one find mercurial for pricing and such?

[LTwerewolf]

If you can fit in weapon master (i know, extremely feat intensive), you can add another 2 to the threat range.

[PaucaTerrorem]

What's PWM?

[nyjastul69]

What's PWM?

Psychic Weapon Master (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d)

[Irk]

I think I got the highest threat range last year:


First, take an 18-20 weapon. Improved critical brings it to 15-20, and weapons master PWM brings it to 13-20. The question is how exactly DoD and hero’s blade interact with this reduced range due to the way in which multiplier stacking works? The first interpretation is this: Doubling a threat range of 18-20 brings it down to 15-20. Tripling the same threat range brings it down to 12-20, and quadrupling it brings it down to 9-20. Therefore, hero’s blade, iron power, improved critical, and the PWM will bring it down to (6-20)-2, or 4-20. The other interpretation is similar, though this time, the threat range is decreasing by 5 each time, because PWM has added extra range to the improved critical, which is then considered to affect a threat range by doubling it then adding 2. With this interpretation, the threat range effectively becomes 1-20.

There you have it, maximum critical threat range. Many people forget about that blanket ban in keen edge, and try to apply things like serrated, but that does not exactly work. Depending on your interpretation, the maximum threat range on a weapon is either 4-20 or 1-20, using the components above.

highest 3.5 ONLY threat range is 9-20 with a human psychic warrior 6/ street fighter barbarian 7/ psychic weapons master 7 with a hero's blade continuous item while charging with an 18-20 weapon.

Highest 3.P: 1-20 with a human psychic warrior 5/ DoD 8/ psychic weapon master 7 (see above in initial thoughts)


Hero's blade spell (doubles)
PWM or WM (+2)
improved critical (doubles)
DoD 4 and 8 (doubles and triples)
Arcane Duelist 7 (doubles limited time)
Mythic exemplar 2 (+1 limited time)
Streetfighter Barbarian 7 (+1 while charging)

EDIT: you either need crysteel weapons or you have to be holding a crystal weapon for the build with DoD and PWM to work.

[CyberThread]

I think I got the highest threat range last year:


EDIT: you either need crysteel weapons or you have to be holding a crystal weapon for the build with DoD and PWM to work.


I would like to circumvent your claim, a stump knife, can get 17-20 before you start doing all your math.

[Buufreak]

Well that just makes it easy. Any weapon with 18-20 crit range, add improved crit (15-20), add 8 levels of Disciple (5-20). Not much that's going to improve on that (though getting a Mercurial Weapon for the x4 crit damage is still a good idea), so just fill in the blanks with typical power attack focused classes/feats, to stack up the flat damage to get multiplied.


Edit: My bad, forgot the multiplication rules in D&D. It's 9-20 not 5-20. But still. PWM is the only other source of crit range reduction I'm aware of, and it's impossible to squeeze enough levels of both into a single build to get it reduced further. Maybe there's something else out there, but I'd be pretty happy with a >50% crit rate with enough base damage.

Where are you sourcing mercurial weapon? The one I know of is in A&EG, and while it does give the x4 damage, it takes a longsword's range from 19-20 to 20. If you want to call that -1 or 1/2 is up to interpretation, but it is a drawback to consider in a build centered around scoring constant crits.

[Raishoiken]

Stump knife: base 17-20
Laminated steel (More Ultimate Equipment): augmented base 16-20
Improved critical: 11-20
Iron power 1 (disciple of Dispater): 6-20
Iron power 2: 1-20
= all attacks threaten

Ring of constant Dolorous Blow (spell compendium): all threats are confirmed

Always crit except on ones

[Irk]

I would like to circumvent your claim, a stump knife, can get 17-20 before you start doing all your math.
Unfortunately, since the stump knife does not explicitly stack with improved critical, it does not work due to the blanket ban provided by Keen Edge. Similarly, laminated steel does not contain and "explicit stacking clause, so it does not work either. It's a bit trickier than that, my method is the only I've seen that actually regards the stacking rules.

Remember: Unless the critical threat ranges explicitly stack, they won't work.

The list of stacking items is as follows: Hero's blade, DoD, PWM, WM, Arcane Duelist, Streetfighter barbarian, and Mythic exemplar

[animewatcha]

If I remember right, weapon master ( not the psychic ) was 'updated' to exotic weapon master in 3.5e. Sadly.

[Chronos]

Quoth Raishoiken:

Laminated steel (More Ultimate Equipment): augmented base 16-20
Challenges like this get really easy if you allow homebrew. Why not just homebrew a weapon property or class ability that takes it directly to 1-20?

[Irk]

If I remember right, weapon master ( not the psychic ) was 'updated' to exotic weapon master in 3.5e. Sadly.
That is correct.

Challenges like this get really easy if you allow homebrew. Why not just homebrew a weapon property or class ability that takes it directly to 1-20?
Though this is true, I think laminated steel is from AE&G, which you may or may not still consider homebrew.

[Chronos]

No, A&EG is fully-official D&D, though 3.0 (just like Disciple of Dispater). But it doesn't contain laminated steel, which apparently comes from a book called "More Ultimate Equipment".

[Slipperychicken]

Well that just makes it easy. Any weapon with 18-20 crit range, add improved crit (15-20), add 8 levels of Disciple (5-20). Not much that's going to improve on that (though getting a Mercurial Weapon for the x4 crit damage is still a good idea), so just fill in the blanks with typical power attack focused classes/feats, to stack up the flat damage to get multiplied.


Edit: My bad, forgot the multiplication rules in D&D. It's 9-20 not 5-20. But still. PWM is the only other source of crit range reduction I'm aware of, and it's impossible to squeeze enough levels of both into a single build to get it reduced further. Maybe there's something else out there, but I'd be pretty happy with a >50% crit rate with enough base damage.

It's not necessarily 50% crit rate. You still need to hit and confirm.

[Chronos]

Eh, a full-BAB character really ought to be hitting at least half the time, anyway. And if you're hitting at all, then Blood in the Water should very quickly mean that you're hitting all of the time. If your target survives for more than a round, then you can pretty much just start Power Attacking for full and get away with it.

[Raishoiken]

Unfortunately, since the stump knife does not explicitly stack with improved critical, it does not work due to the blanket ban provided by Keen Edge. Similarly, laminated steel does not contain and "explicit stacking clause, so it does not work either. It's a bit trickier than that, my method is the only I've seen that actually regards the stacking rules.

Remember: Unless the critical threat ranges explicitly stack, they won't work.

The list of stacking items is as follows: Hero's blade, DoD, PWM, WM, Arcane Duelist, Streetfighter barbarian, and Mythic exemplar

just re-looked at keen edge, one of the few times i've over-looked something like that in my group.. damn v_v


Challenges like this get really easy if you allow homebrew. Why not just homebrew a weapon property or class ability that takes it directly to 1-20?


That is correct.

Though this is true, I think laminated steel is from AE&G, which you may or may not still consider homebrew.


No, A&EG is fully-official D&D, though 3.0 (just like Disciple of Dispater). But it doesn't contain laminated steel, which apparently comes from a book called "More Ultimate Equipment".


i can promise you it isn't homebrew. More Ultimate Equipment is from mongoose publishing: http://www.rpgnow.com/product/2828/More-Ultimate-Equipment?it=1