Is three rounds enough? Barbarian 3.5

[Teapot Salty]

Hey guys. So for my newly built barbarian, I decided to run whirling frenzy. Thing is, I have 10 constitution and was wondering, is three rounds enough for a solid rage? Thanks, and as always, go nuts.

[Zanos]

A typical combat lasts about three rounds I find, but combats that go up to five rounds at lower levels are not uncommon and you'll be dealing with those penalties for the next two rounds.

More worrisome is that you'll have a rather low hitpoint pool for a frontline melee character in medium armor, which is never good. What level are you starting at?

[Yorrin]

Two things to address here:

1- The question you asked. I'd say that it depends on the rest of your party. If you guys are typically rolling through encounters quickly then you'll be alright, but my group tends to go longer than 3rounds about half the time.

2- The question you failed to ask. "Will I be able to survive in the front lines with 10 Con?" I hope you've got some generous buffs going, 'cause you gonna explode pretty quick with a tiny Con in the frontlines.

[OldTrees1]

Interesting combat lasts about 5 (3-7) rounds. So a 3 round rage would be fine if you use it mid battle rather than at the beginning of battle.

[Teapot Salty]

Quick note, Hp isn't really a problem, our dm assumes we rolled max each time.

[VoxRationis]

3 rounds is too short for most combats in my campaigns, but my group is pretty low-optimization.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Three is pretty short for a lot of combats in my current game, too. Though the party didn't focus to much on offense and I intentionally try to spread out multiple enemies and/or use waves of them in order to lengthen the fight.

I would say just to not use it right away, wait until it's the middle of a fight and your side *needs* the help. The other danger of using it too early is smart enemies might back off or go all defensive "rope a dope" style to wait out the rage, if they haven't gotten stuck in the middle of melee and surrounded already.

[Gavinfoxx]

What stats did you roll?

Or do you have point buy?

What is your race?

[evil-frosty]

That is extremely generous of your DM, assuming that you rolled max at each level, but 10 con is still going to hurt you long run for hit points since as a front line fighter it is expected you take most of the hits. Also your fort save suffers. Just things to note. And for your rage, you might need to hold off on raging a round or two depending on the situation.

[Teapot Salty]

What stats did you roll?

Or do you have point buy?

What is your race?

PB.

Human Barbarian Before picture: str 16, dex 12, con 10, wis 12, int 12, cha 12

After Picture: str 16, dex 12 con 12, wis 10, int 12, cha 12.

[drack]

Yup, 4-5 should be a bit better. In the only low level game I've run rounds tend to be closser to 10 rounds, but that's a touch gritty. You could probably scate by with three if you needed to. I'd be more worried about multiple combats/day... (extra rage is a crowd favorate, but if you've got no feats you tend to just play a touch more defencivly then a barbarian needs for the other combats and you're still fine.)

[Terazul]

PB.

Human Barbarian Before picture: str 16, dex 12, con 10, wis 12, int 12, cha 12

After Picture: str 16, dex 12 con 12, wis 10, int 12, cha 12.
Any particular reason for the 12 Charisma? It probably would've been better to move the 12 from there rather than Wis, as you don't gain particularly much from it.

[Svata]

Or put both CHA and WIS at 10, to get 14 CON.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Or just drop Cha to 8. It really doesn't do that much, and ranks in Intimidate will dwarf a +1 or -1 ability mod anyway.

[drack]

Or just drop Cha to 8. It really doesn't do that much, and ranks in Intimidate will dwarf a +1 or -1 ability mod anyway.

Yup, that's what I was thinking.

[Teapot Salty]

The 12 cha is flavor, although I suppose I could drop it but....

[Spore]

The 12 cha is flavor, although I suppose I could drop it but....

No one takes barbarians serious as negotiators anyway. Well, unless their weapons are involved. :smallamused:

On the matter: Drop your Cha to 8 but make his actions fit Cha 12 and give him a nasty scar that makes people not want to look at him because it's so ugly.

[drack]

The 12 cha is flavor, although I suppose I could drop it but....

I'd probably drop the wisdom then. It's often kept for will saves, but there are other ways to get a quick save boost, flavor is important in keeping the final character how you want it to be. =)

[Zweisteine]

Playing a charismatic barbarian is adimirable. As long as you aren't taking charisma-based skills (besides intimidate), you might want to ask your DM to give you a free +2, as it won't change much, unless everyone else also dumped charisma, and isn't taking charisma skills.

If I was a human barbarian on a 30-point buy, I'd probably do this:
Strength 16, Dexterity 14, Consitution 14, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 12, Charisma 8

What race are you? This is very important.

If you're playing a water orc (+4 str, +2 con, -2 int/wis/cha), for example, you might end up like this on 30 points:
Strength 18, Dexterity 14, Constitution 16, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 10, Charisma 10
From an optimization perspective, it makes more sense to go for 12 wisdom and 8 charisma, but that's up to you. Going to maximum optimization, you probably get something like 20, 14, 16, 6, 12, 6. Of course, that's not easy to roleplay if you think too much...

[OldTrees1]

The 12 cha is flavor, although I suppose I could drop it but....

Keep it. Do not compromise your character concept when building a character.

[Terazul]

Keep it. Do not compromise your character concept when building a character.
Well no, you shouldn't compromise a concept, no. Just to actually be charismatic in DnD and have that mean anything requires you to put ranks in certain (Cha-based) skills to prove it; of which Barbarian only has intimidate going for it. It's not going to make much of a difference or do all that much for him with regards to that. But, if having that +1 really does mean a lot to the character, just lower the Wis instead.

[drack]

Well no, you shouldn't compromise a concept, no. Just to actually be charismatic in DnD and have that mean anything requires you to put ranks in certain (Cha-based) skills to prove it; of which Barbarian only has intimidate going for it. It's not going to make much of a difference or do all that much for him with regards to that. But, if having that +1 really does mean a lot to the character, just lower the Wis instead.

It's less about the mod, and more about the stat. I've played with someone who wouldn't bat an eye at a character under 17 cha. Heck, I've played a character that nearly shot a fellow PC at point blank range so repulsed were they of their cha 6 companion's appearance.

[Terazul]

It's less about the mod, and more about the stat. I've played with someone who wouldn't bat an eye at a character under 17 cha. Heck, I've played a character that nearly shot a fellow PC at point blank range so repulsed were they of their cha 6 companion's appearance.

:smallconfused:
When 10 is average, 8-6 is just mildly discomforting. Also, Cha isn't a direct correlation to physical beauty: friendly reminder that this thing has a Charisma of 42.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070602021255/forgottenrealms/images/8/8f/Atropal_Scion_-_Jeremy_Jarvis.jpg
But if that's how you play, more power to you, I guess.

[OldTrees1]

:smallconfused:
Friendly reminder that this thing has a Charisma of 42.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070602021255/forgottenrealms/images/8/8f/Atropal_Scion_-_Jeremy_Jarvis.jpg
But if that's how you play, more power to you, I guess.

And while it is repulsive, doesn't the sight leave you awestruck? That is divinity you are looking at.

[drack]

Charisma is the sense of presence about you, and that thing's presence fills a room. =p I've only really played one character that cares much for that, but I know people that do all the time. They tent to prefer the BoEF appearance stat, so it begins to become a different discussion with them.

[Spore]

I'd probably drop the wisdom then. It's often kept for will saves, but there are other ways to get a quick save boost, flavor is important in keeping the final character how you want it to be. =)

When you add the adjective repulsive to Cha 8, then you might as well add the adjective insane to Wis 8. I happen to prefer the silent and uncharismatic "fighting man" to the insanely loud one and mad one.

[nedz]

It depends upon your game. I've played in games where combats were usually 2 rounds long; but then I've run 30 round combats myself. The trick with this is to choose when to Whirlybird, it probably shouldn't be the first thing you do in combat.

That said 10 Con does seem awfully low for a melee character — and this could be more of an issue, to the extent that I have to ask what character you intend to play next ?

[drack]

No, insane is something else entirely, you end up with "town fool", "dullard", "childishly naive", or "drooling hunk of flesh" then you take shots at wisdom. Still I rarely ever drop wisdom because that's probably my highest mental stat OOC, and that'll always bleed in.

Now insanity... most of my characters are insane, especially the older ones. ;}

[Teapot Salty]

That said 10 Con does seem awfully low for a melee character — and this could be more of an issue, to the extent that I have to ask what character you intend to play next ?

I'm making a rogue/wizard if that's what your asking. (It ironically has higher con than this barb, before I edited it)

[Keld Denar]

No one takes barbarians serious as negotiators anyway. Well, unless their weapons are involved. :smallamused:

Imperious Command begs to differ. CeleribarianTM builds rely on it. Immediate Rage + Intimidating Rage + Imperious Command allows you to yell STOP: HAMMER GREATAXE TIME!

Also, I think 3 rounds is much too short. The combats that I come up with are often times longer. Then again, I like to craft encounters with lots of interesting circumstances where fight isn't endable in the first round. I favor larger groups of weaker enemies rather than single CR+2 baddies, and then I space them out so that they aren't all catchable in the same Web spell or similar CC/disable. Even with Cleave, it takes a few rounds just to mop them all up, and that's assuming that the fight is officially "over", which is often times 5-6 rounds into the combat.

It all depends on your DM. I wouldn't recommend it, though.

[ericgrau]

By round 3 most fights may as well be over even if they aren't over yet. The fatigue isn't a big deal, but losing level x 2 hp might be. Not always since you have a lot, but it could still finish you off. It would be better to last until round 4 or 5 if you can do it easily. So you have a chance to get healed while your other 2 allies clean up the stragglers. But if that means losing something else to get another round of rage, it might not be worth it.

[VoxRationis]

Of course, if the fight isn't over in 3 rounds, the fight will almost assuredly be that one fight you really, really don't want to be fatigued for.

[TuggyNE]

No, insane is something else entirely, you end up with "town fool", "dullard", "childishly naive", or "drooling hunk of flesh" then you take shots at wisdom.

Allips and derros within core indicate a very strong correlation between sanity and Wisdom.

But in any case, the main point was how silly it is to tie a description of extreme disability to a mere -1 modifier.

[drack]

As alcoholic beverages tie it to a tough liver, and compulsion/mind effecting spells ties it to being easy/hard to manipulate. interpolate between it all and you have the person that just doesn't think through things properly, who has less common sense, ect. It's probably the closest stat to madness, but madness is more fluff then it is stats by a long shot. Wis is almost never my dump stat and most of my characters are mad, is that unreasonable/contrary to the rules? =p

I think it's more that madness degrades wisdom then that degraded wisdom is madness.

[OldTrees1]

Each of the mental stats is a combination of a few factors. (See Charisma as the prime example) Sanity is one of the components of Wisdom.

Think of it this way: (simple version of the model)
Wisdom = Average of Sanity, Insight and Perception
Modifier to Sanity checks = Sanity - Wisdom (can be negative)
Modifier to Insight checks = Insight - Wisdom (can be negative)
Modifier to Perception checks = Perception - Wisdom (can be negative)