Feat questions

[Gorr_the_Gastly]

Ok so troll blooded gives regeneration and says its because somewhere you have troll blood in you. Now if you're a warforged you can take improved resiliency to become immune to non lethal but it states you lose regeneration if its feom magic or templates. Would it remove troll bloods regeneration?

I am mobile so cannot like or c&p

[Shining Wrath]

Can you provide what source book Troll Blooded is from?

[OldTrees1]

"You are immune to nonlethal damage but lose the ability to benefit from regeneration or fast healing, even if you would gain those qualities through magic or the application of a template."

You do not lose regeneration but you lose the ability to benefit from regeneration. The "even if" dependent clause merely emphasizes what the independent clause said.

Trollblooded is from Dragon #319
Improved Resiliency is from Races of Eberron

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Also note that Troll Blooded is a Greyhawk-specific regional feat, and should not appear on a character with Eberron-specific mechanics anyway.

Furthermore, WotC has officially ruled that any immunity to nonlethal damage, regardless of source, actually has an unfavorable interaction with regeneration. Since regeneration converts normal hp damage into nonlethal damage, immunity to nonlethal damage will make your regeneration incapable of converting normal hp damage you take into nonlethal, so all damage types will bypass your regeneration until you're no longer immune to nonlethal damage.

[Grayson01]

Also note that Troll Blooded is a Greyhawk-specific regional feat, and should not appear on a character with Eberron-specific mechanics anyway.

Furthermore, WotC has officially ruled that any immunity to nonlethal damage, regardless of source, actually has an unfavorable interaction with regeneration. Since regeneration converts normal hp damage into nonlethal damage, immunity to nonlethal damage will make your regeneration incapable of converting normal hp damage you take into nonlethal, so all damage types will bypass your regeneration until you're no longer immune to nonlethal damage.

They Put Warforged in one of the Monster Manuals to open them up to other settings, as well as that being stated in the Races of Eberron introduction.

[OldTrees1]

Furthermore, WotC has officially ruled that any immunity to nonlethal damage, regardless of source, actually has an unfavorable interaction with regeneration. Since regeneration converts normal hp damage into nonlethal damage, immunity to nonlethal damage will make your regeneration incapable of converting normal hp damage you take into nonlethal, so all damage types will bypass your regeneration until you're no longer immune to nonlethal damage.

Ooh. Neat. Where is the source (for if I ever need it)?

[Gemini476]

They Put Warforged in one of the Monster Manuals to open them up to other settings, as well as that being stated in the Races of Eberron introduction.

Monster Manual III, page 190-193.

Since the basic assumed setting is basically Greyhawk, I guess this means that Warforged exist in Greyhawk? Heh.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Ooh. Neat. Where is the source (for if I ever need it)?

It was in the Ask Wizards questions and answers, but sadly they're not hosting any of those any more. You can find the reasoning right in the Regeneration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration) ability text: "Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage..." The creature with regeneration still takes damage, but it treats the damage as nonlethal after it's dealt to the creature. If it's stopped from treating the damage as nonlethal, it doesn't change the fact that it took that damage in the first place.

[Gorr_the_Gastly]

Their in monster manual 1 already i believe and where is this statrment?

[The Random NPC]

Also note that Troll Blooded is a Greyhawk-specific regional feat, and should not appear on a character with Eberron-specific mechanics anyway.

Furthermore, WotC has officially ruled that any immunity to nonlethal damage, regardless of source, actually has an unfavorable interaction with regeneration. Since regeneration converts normal hp damage into nonlethal damage, immunity to nonlethal damage will make your regeneration incapable of converting normal hp damage you take into nonlethal, so all damage types will bypass your regeneration until you're no longer immune to nonlethal damage.

If that's true then what we need is the ability to grant any given creature immunity to nonlethal damage.

[Grayson01]

Monster Manual III, page 190-193.

Since the basic assumed setting is basically Greyhawk, I guess this means that Warforged exist in Greyhawk? Heh.

It means that they are an open option for a DM to introduce them to any setting they want. That is also reiterated in the Races of Eberron book. It says this book was put out inorder to explain and open up the Eberron races to other settings. Because, and this is a paraphrase, they do not want the game to be limited, the game is about options.

[Gorr_the_Gastly]

Can anyone find which book or site has this ruling he mentioned it listed?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Can anyone find which book or site has this ruling he mentioned it listed?

It was originally from the Ask Wizards (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/ask) section, but only a small fraction of those were archived so it's lost. The reasoning based on the wording of regeneration still holds true, though.

[Gorr_the_Gastly]

Regeneration: Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage

So if you were immune to Non Lethal Damage all damage dealt to you would be treated as non lethal which you are immune against. How does this conflict. It would grant you general immunity still as the Regeneration does not convert damage it is treated as nonlethal so there is no weird conversion issue.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Regeneration: Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage

So if you were immune to Non Lethal Damage all damage dealt to you would be treated as non lethal which you are immune against. How does this conflict. It would grant you general immunity still as the Regeneration does not convert damage it is treated as nonlethal so there is no weird conversion issue.

Creature with regeneration takes damage: he takes hp damage, but regeneration allows him to act like it's nonlethal damage instead. He still took hp damage from the attack.
Creature with regeneration is immune to nonlethal damage: there's no such thing as nonlethal damage for him, so he cannot treat anything as nonlethal. He still took hp damage from the attack.

Regeneration doesn't cause him to receive nonlethal damage. If he gets hit with a sword, he takes lethal slashing damage, but regeneration allows him to treat it like nonlethal damage for purposes of what it does to his character, but it's still lethal slashing damage. It doesn't get changed into nonlethal damage, it just gets modified to act like nonlethal damage with regards to whether or not it kills him, how it's healed, etc. It stays as lethal slashing damage, so if he's unable to receive nonlethal damage, then the mechanics of that lethal slashing damage he took from the sword hit doesn't get modified.

[Gorr_the_Gastly]

Edit: So you are staying that immunity to Non lethal somehow stops Regeneration from functioning the way it normally would? How?
Regeneration
Creatures with this extraordinary ability recover from wounds quickly and can even regrow or reattach severed body parts. Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the creature’s entry.

It says damage dealt to the creature is treated as non lethal damage not that is it lethal damage and gets counted as non lethal for Regenerations effect, it says it is treated (generic statement) as nonlethal.

So where do you get this conversion process from?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Edit: So you are staying that immunity to Non lethal somehow stops Regeneration from functioning the way it normally would? How?
Regeneration
Creatures with this extraordinary ability recover from wounds quickly and can even regrow or reattach severed body parts. Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the creature’s entry.

It says damage dealt to the creature is treated as non lethal damage not that is it lethal damage and gets counted as non lethal for Regenerations effect, it says it is treated (generic statement) as nonlethal.

So where do you get this conversion process from?

It does not become nonlethal damage, it stays the same type of damage it originally was. Otherwise regeneration would say that it becomes nonlethal damage. A creature with regeneration that is dealt lethal damage receives lethal damage. Regeneration allows them to treat it as nonlethal damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#nonlethalDamage) whenever the mechanics of nonlethal damage would differ from lethal damage, but the damage they're dealt is still dealt to them as lethal damage. It never becomes nonlethal damage, it just gets its mechanics changed to those of nonlethal damage, but it stays as lethal damage.

If you cast Bear's Endurance on an undead creature, nothing happens, because it gives a bonus to Constitution to a creature for which a constitution score does not exist. That creature must take the drawbacks of no Con score along with the benefits of it. If you make it so that nonlethal damage does not exist with regards to your character, then you do not benefit from the mechanics of nonlethal damage with regards to regeneration and the lethal damage you take, you have to take both the benefits and the drawbacks of that.

Regardless, the hp damage dealt to a creature with regeneration remains the exact same type of damage that it originally was, including lethal. This includes when the mechanics of regeneration allow them to treat the mechanics of the damage they receive as nonlethal. Immunity to nonlethal damage does not change this, and you still take lethal damage when you have regeneration, you just get to treat it like it's nonlethal damage without actually turning it into it.

[Gorr_the_Gastly]

With Regeneration you still treat lethal damage as nonlethal, if you are immune to nonlethal damage you still treat lethal damage as nonlethal because of regeneration treating lethal damage (Which you are not immune too) as nonlethal (Which you are) so technically this works. As its only TREATED as nonlethal and is not actually nonlethal. Its lethal being treated as nonlethal. So immunity to nonlethal damage would work because its lethal being treated and not actual nonlethal. So the lethal damage is treated as nonlethal which you are immune too. If you are immune to that damage type then you take no damage from it, since lethal is being treated as nonlethal you treat it like its nonlethal which you are immune too. There is no reason for regeneration to no longer treat it as nonlethal.