getting players to read the books

[drewdp]

I recently started a game with two roommates and two work friends. None of them had played d&d before and the two work friends were new to table top rpgs in general. I made their level one characters for them and explained play as we went.
Now we are 4 sessions in however and none of the players have picked up a book. When they leveled the first time we did it together, and the most I got was the sorcerer to actually read his available spells.
The cleric (most uninterested in anything but rolling dice) has yet to look at his spells and is "preparing" the same spells in each slot every day that I gave him with his starting character. It works for now but as they level they will need to be more diverse.
I've offered to give pdf versions of any book, as well as left the pertinent books out for myrroommates, yet nobody seems interested in reading the finer points of their class or what magic items/New abilities they will want in the future.
I am a planner, so this is off-putting. I want some idea where the quests will lead... any ideas on how to get them to read, or alternatives to get them knowledgeable in the rules. I don't want to be the only one explaining the rules because I don't have a firm grasp on a lot of stuff myself. I feel they should be an expert in their class, not me be an expert in everything for them.

[Kennisiou]

Maybe try looking for online handbooks and guides to the classes/playstyles/build styles the players are using and direct them towards those. I personally don't have tons of system mastery since there are a lot of books I haven't read or have only read parts of, but thanks to guide usage and osmosis from hanging around this site with its awesome internet hivemind of knowledge I feel like I can do a fair bit with artificial system mastery in 3.5. Spell selection in particular is daunting without guide help because the more sourcebooks you include as valid the bigger the spell lists for the core casters become. There's around 300 first level wizard spells alone between all of the sourcebooks. Even with just core allowed, you're looking at a list of 42 first level spells. That's a whole lot of decision making at just one level of spells.

[Dr. Azkur]

Start to set them lose. Show them the problems of not coming prepared. When they level up act as if you expected them to know, have them read them right there if they want to get the bonuses, say you'll answer any questions gladly but that they have the duty as players to learn the mechanics themselves.

And as a side note: My players react to danger. When they realised I wasn't throwing any bones and that they could die if they were no careful, they started reading their spell lists and looked for the best feats.
I'm not one to brag... but pray that yours are as smart as mine.

[jedipotter]

Don't do anything. If they don't want to read, that is fine. In the good old days of 2E, most players never read much of any book.

Ah, they were the Good Old Days. Most players only maybe owned a Players Handbook......maybe. Most players only read a page or two of the Players Handbook; about their race, character, or such. And they were clueless about anything else.

And the game just went on.

[Necroticplague]

Easy, start killing them off in ways that could be easily avoided if they do know stuff. When they die, point out that fact afterwards. Repeat until they start to memorize the thing so that such a ting doesn't happen again. Like have somethings slaughter them with AoOs, and point out they could have easily used the Withdraw action to avoid this afterwards.

Or just force them into situations where the fact they don't know mechanics are obvious, so they get to look like morons in front of their friends. Like have the enemy try and grapple them, and ask them to roll grapple on their end without telling them how to calculate it.

Heck, you can combine these two to brutal effect. Repeat with rules they don't know until they've either memorized all of what you want them to know, or become paranoid and start reading everything just in case.

[Seppo87]

Easy, start killing them off in ways that could be easily avoided if they do know stuff. When they die, point out that fact afterwards. Repeat until they start to memorize the thing so that such a ting doesn't happen again. Like have somethings slaughter them with AoOs, and point out they could have easily used the Withdraw action to avoid this afterwards.

Or just force them into situations where the fact they don't know mechanics are obvious, so they get to look like morons in front of their friends. Like have the enemy try and grapple them, and ask them to roll grapple on their end without telling them how to calculate it.

Heck, you can combine these two to brutal effect. Repeat with rules they don't know until they've either memorized all of what you want them to know, or become paranoid and start reading everything just in case.
"how to be a bad DM and a jerk" basically

[jjcrpntr]

We had this problem in our group. Our Barbarian rolled his stats but every time we leveled up one of the other guys would plug his stuff into heroforge and print him a new character sheet. The guy had no idea what his skills were other then that he had handle animal and jump maxed out. After about 5 months our DM realized that he would power attack for 6, then on his second attack power attack for 2, problem is he only had basic power attack. Issue was that no one had ever explained the feat to him or had him read it. He was just told he subtracted X from his attack roll and added X to his damage. So the DM finally told him he wasn't allowed to power attack anymore until he read the feat and learned it, then we got into a massive battle and his rage ran out, he tried to rerage and the DM said he couldn't do that, he got pissed and the DM said, well that's how the class works. Finally at the end of the night after being told that 80% of the stuff he wanted to use didn't work the way he thought I offered to sit down with him.

Two days later he came over and we remade his entire sheet and walked through every single element. He didn't know you got strength+1/2 when using a 2h weapon. he had just always been told "this is your dmg". Now he knows his barbarian extremely well.

[sakuuya]

It might be worth your while to have everybody make new characters. I've found that making new players dig through the PHB to actually put a character together makes them more willing to crack the books open later. Plus, this way your Cleric guy could rebuild as something with no spells (I'd also recommend steering him away from the Fighter, because it doesn't sound like he'd enjoy the build-it-from-scratch-with-feat-choices style of that class), which would probably be beneficial to both of you--Cleric guy because he could do the part of the game he likes (rollin' dice) without having to worry about a lot of extraneous bookkeeping, and you because you wouldn't have to worry as much about his unwillingness to read the rules if he played a class that basically does the same thing every day at all levels.

I'd also recommend trying to recruit an experienced friend as a fifth person. Then you won't be the only person at the table who's familiar with the rules.

[jedipotter]

Easy, start killing them off in ways that could be easily avoided if they do know stuff.

I'll second this one.

[atemu1234]

"how to be a bad DM and a jerk" basically

Hey, if they won't read the player's handbook, (AKA the bare minimum for being a player) they deserve what they get.

[Red Fel]

I would go with a "tough but fair" approach. There are two major rules for that, in my mind.

First rule: Once gameplay begins, only the DM may look in the books. Players are allowed their character sheets plus any of their own notes. Players may continue to take or make notes during gameplay. However, if they ask to look at spell descriptions, ability descriptions, or anything else, the answer is no. Some groups do this already, at least with regard to monsters and the like - it prevents meta and keeps people from being distracted. So it's not a bad rule in general.

Second rule: If a PC has (or should have) a spell or ability that could change the outcome of a situation (e.g. the Rogue forgot to apply Evasion), you ask the player whether there is "anything else you're forgetting" before you apply the results. This is the forgetfulness test - players forget things. It happens. Even the most studious, well-read player will forget something from time to time. By asking the question, you're in effect asking "Did you fail to use X because you forgot, or because you didn't read about it?" (If you want to be really blatant, you could even ask about X by name - if they read it, they should realize their folly.) If, after you ask the question, the player realizes they forgot something, let them fix it - you haven't applied the dice rolls yet. But if, after you ask, they still don't know, it's a case of "didn't do the homework." This is where "tough but fair" comes in - you apply the dice rolls as if they lacked the spell or ability. In this case, your Rogue would take regular damage on a Ref save, for example.

And that's it. You're not being unreasonable and you're giving them a chance. But if they don't know their own abilities or spells, it's not your job to save them.

[rrwoods]

I would go with a "tough but fair" approach. There are two major rules for that, in my mind.

First rule: Once gameplay begins, only the DM may look in the books. Players are allowed their character sheets plus any of their own notes. Players may continue to take or make notes during gameplay. However, if they ask to look at spell descriptions, ability descriptions, or anything else, the answer is no. Some groups do this already, at least with regard to monsters and the like - it prevents meta and keeps people from being distracted. So it's not a bad rule in general.

Second rule: If a PC has (or should have) a spell or ability that could change the outcome of a situation (e.g. the Rogue forgot to apply Evasion), you ask the player whether there is "anything else you're forgetting" before you apply the results. This is the forgetfulness test - players forget things. It happens. Even the most studious, well-read player will forget something from time to time. By asking the question, you're in effect asking "Did you fail to use X because you forgot, or because you didn't read about it?" (If you want to be really blatant, you could even ask about X by name - if they read it, they should realize their folly.) If, after you ask the question, the player realizes they forgot something, let them fix it - you haven't applied the dice rolls yet. But if, after you ask, they still don't know, it's a case of "didn't do the homework." This is where "tough but fair" comes in - you apply the dice rolls as if they lacked the spell or ability. In this case, your Rogue would take regular damage on a Ref save, for example.

And that's it. You're not being unreasonable and you're giving them a chance. But if they don't know their own abilities or spells, it's not your job to save them.

I really, really like this second rule. I'm not sure how I feel about the first rule -- I tend to "generally" know what my stuff does to give me an idea of what my options are, but I'll look something up before I actually use it to make sure I'm not missing something. Then again I'm pretty quick at looking things up so I'm not interrupting the flow of the game (anything I can't completely summarize in like 15 words gets a reference book/page# on the sheet so I know where to look).

But that second rule. Really really good IMO. It's the players' responsibility to account for their own abilities, but the DM's gentle prod of "make sure you're not forgetting anything" is going to give them exactly the right amount of push to learn their stuff without just outright killing the party for not being infinitely prepared. Kudos.

[Zweisteine]

Don't forget to show them the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/). It's much more convenient than the books, and has everything you need to know to play.

Don't want to flip through to find the grapple rules? Just search it on the SRD website. Don't want to deal with flipping back and forth between spell lists and spells? Use the conveniently-placed links on the spell names!

[Alex12]

I really, really like this second rule. I'm not sure how I feel about the first rule -- I tend to "generally" know what my stuff does to give me an idea of what my options are, but I'll look something up before I actually use it to make sure I'm not missing something. Then again I'm pretty quick at looking things up so I'm not interrupting the flow of the game (anything I can't completely summarize in like 15 words gets a reference book/page# on the sheet so I know where to look).

But that second rule. Really really good IMO. It's the players' responsibility to account for their own abilities, but the DM's gentle prod of "make sure you're not forgetting anything" is going to give them exactly the right amount of push to learn their stuff without just outright killing the party for not being infinitely prepared. Kudos.

I gotta agree with this. I disagree with the first rule, since even though I consider myself reasonably proficient in my character's main abilities, there's stuff I'll fire up d20srd for. For example, if I come to a wall that I need to get over, I'll glance over the Climb rules to get an idea of how difficult it might be. I also try to keep a text file of all my spells, organized by level, that replicates everything I need to know about them.


I'd suggest simply telling them that they need to be proficient with their characters. You can't do everything, and expecting you to do so puts an undue stress on you when you're already putting in the work of DMing.
"Listen, guys, you need to read the rulebooks so you at least know what you can do. We're all in this to have fun, but I can't manage everything."

[Amphetryon]

Because we don't know your Players, any suggestions we give will be guesses; it's almost impossible to approach this situation in a way that some folks won't find inappropriate or jerkish.

[Skysaber]

One very real possibility is to tell the players at next level-up opportunity, "You're on your own." ie, you won't do the work for them. It's their character, their responsibility. You'll answer any reasonable questions, but not do the work for them anymore. So it is do it themselves or not get the extra power from leveling.

Then, when the monsters increase according to what their new CR should be, if they failed to level up and are struggling, there is no one to blame but themselves - and warn them of that ahead of time.

[Captnq]

Give them the handbooks you can find in my sig file. It's made for noobs.
Also my Noob Handbook. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9479.0)

[Lord of Shadows]

Do they actually want to learn the game? Or are they just looking for a new and different way to hang out together?
.

[HighWater]

Give them homework. Yes. Seriously.

Just tell them (or mail them): before we meet next time, please read your class chapter. The session after that, tell them to read the combat chapter, or at least glance over the different combat actions you can take. Then comes the skills chapter (first only read the skills that are your classskills). Conclude with spells and level up. Have them repeat. I also feel that for a nice introduction, pre-statted chars might be nice, but nothing beats making your own character in order to understand how it works. This will take a really long time with a group of new players though.

During the game, gently remind them of abilities they are forgetting, once or twice, first by name, then by just saying "you're forgetting something important". A bit later you can switch to Red Fel's 'are you forgetting anything?'.

My Bard player completely forgot he had Bardic Music in the third session, eventhough he used it in the second session, resulting in him feeling pretty useless during an undead-combat. I asked him "I think you're forgetting something, what is the defining ability for Bards?" He still didn't know, but looked it up while others ran their combat turns (everyone was new, so he had some time) and decided that, indeed, using bardic knowledge would help out the party and was a nice thing to do.
Same thing happened for the Paladin, who forgot about smite evil, was reminded of it during one combat, and then promptly forgot it again during the next combat the next day (but did remember to power attack!).

D&D 3.5 is hard when you first begin. Also, most people don't find "rules" to be all that interesting. D&D needs to be taught, talk your players through it, while at the same time emphasizing that you can't remind them of everything, that you already have a lot to do during the game and that they need to read stuff to make the game go faster and therefore more fun.