How to Go to Space?

[Amaril]

How might someone in your typical D&D 3.5 setting go about reaching outer space and coming back? Would it be better to rely entirely on magic, or mix it with mundane technology? Would it be trivial or difficult? This question intrigues me, and I want to explore it. I'm not asking regarding the abilities of any specific character or party--I'm more curious about how someone in a D&D world might build an actual space program, PC or NPC. Any and all possible methods are valid. What do you folks think?

[Deophaun]

Low-Earth Orbit starts at a little under 100 miles. If you could somehow cast teleport with a CL of 1, you would still have the range to make it.

Geosynchronous Orbit is a bit tougher. You need to have a CL of 23 to get there.

[Amaril]

Low-Earth Orbit starts at a little under 100 miles. If you could somehow cast teleport with a CL of 1, you would still have the range to make it.

Geosynchronous Orbit is a bit tougher. You need to have a CL of 23 to get there.

Off the top of my head, don't you need to be familiar with a location to teleport there? Or does that just eliminate the risk of mishaps?

[Deophaun]

Just eliminates the chance of mishaps. Theoretically, you could get a telescope and spend a few nights looking at the part of that sky you want to teleport to and be considered to have "studied carefully" that location. You'd only get a mishap on a 100 then.

[Leviting]

Have an ally cast nailed to the sky on you. Too bad it is an epic spell...

[Amaril]

Okay, fair enough. What about other methods? I want to think of as many ways as possible, here. Also, how about surviving the associated hazards, vacuum, temperature and such? Should be pretty simple with magic, but it's still important.

[Thrudd]

Check out the 2e AD&D setting "Spelljammer", it is all about a D&D version of space travel (of course, the cosmology of that universe is completely different than our own). Not hard use the setting ideas in 3.5 if you wanted to.

[Amaril]

Check out the 2e AD&D setting "Spelljammer", it is all about a D&D version of space travel (of course, the cosmology of that universe is completely different than our own). Not hard use the setting ideas in 3.5 if you wanted to.

I know of it. Probably some useful material in there, sure. Spelljammer assumes space travel to be an existing thing in the world, though, and like you said, its vision of space is very much fantastical rather than realistic.

I have this image in my head of a campaign in which some NPC in a typical 3.5 setting wants to start the world's first space program, and is in need of adventurers to gather resources and personnel, assist with preparations, and eventually be the first astronauts. Seems to me like space travel actually wouldn't be that difficult for any medium-to-high level spellcaster who wanted to do it, though, so that probably wouldn't really be a thing.

[Deophaun]

Generally any type of non-winged flight will get you there as well, eventually. Overland flight would require 25 hours of continuous flight to make it to LEO. Throw on cloud wings and that goes to about 14 and a half.

Survival is tough. For one, if you hold your breath, you should die, so throw that whole thing in the DMG about suffocation out the window. The key to surviving in a vacuum is to exhale, otherwise your lungs will rupture. You also don't want to have any open wounds on your body. Your skin will be fine, as your blood is already under pressure and the loss of a single atmosphere isn't going to be terrible (at least compared to everything else). You want something that will keep the moisture on your skin and eyes from instantly evaporating, as that is what will freeze you.

Unfortunately we don't have anything in D&D that is stated to protect you from radiation, so you want to stay out of the Van Allen belts.

[JeminiZero]

Quick easy way: Get an item of continuous , and put it on something that does not need sleep (like a psicrystal). Use that to fly around in outer space. Completely indestructable (by mundane means anyway), provides powered flight, and can hold a mid-sized party. For air supply use a [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bottleofAir]bottle of air (]Telekinetic Sphere[/url) and ad on some magical pump to continuous pump air out of it. Bring extra-dimensional space if necessary.

[Vrock_Summoner]

Getting a skin disease or cancer or similar from radiation is probably keyed to a Fort save, meaning that at middle-ish levels it'd be pretty easy to make yourself immune to those problems, especially if you've got methods of avoiding failing Fort saves on a natural 1. As for your moisture evaporating/freezing, most self-containing spells/powers would work logically; an activated Helm of Underwater Action and a full-body suit covered in Grease or its Psionic equivalent should logically suffice.

[Vizzerdrix]

In Shining South you will find a handy little 4th level spell called Suspension. I used it in an undead game as my characters contingency plan in case the BBGG ever managed to catch our party.


EDIT: Also, radiation is only a thing if your DM can either point it out in the books or rule 0s it to be a thing. If rule 0, research a custom spell. Make sure it has somatic component: Throw a book at the DMs head, for extra flavor.

[Deophaun]

As for your moisture evaporating/freezing, most self-containing spells/powers would work logically; an activated Helm of Underwater Action and a full-body suit covered in Grease or its Psionic equivalent should logically suffice.
Helm of underwater action only covers the head, while the grease bodysuit won't do anything, as it wouldn't apply pressure. Well, the bodysuit might, but the bodysuit is not going to be air tight. Meanwhile, the water will just boil through the grease.

[Vrock_Summoner]

Helm of underwater action only covers the head, while the grease bodysuit won't do anything, as it wouldn't apply pressure. Well, the bodysuit might, but the bodysuit is not going to be air tight. Meanwhile, the water will just boil through the grease.

The point of Grease was the be the air sealant. I'm no astrophysicist, nor am I an expert in the chemical makeup of magically-produced Grease, but I figured it made sense that it could be used for that purpose. (And no, that doesn't give it extra combat utility; it explicitly can't be applied to someone's face, in case someone else wanted to make a blurb about mechanics here :smalltongue:)

[TrueJordan]

If you PaO everyone to anything undead or construct, you shouldn't have a problem either with not breathing or radiation.
I'm curious what you'd be planning to do in space, though.

[NichG]

Teleportation to get to space has one big problem - what speed (should) the spell leave you going? Normally when you teleport the assumption is 'you end up at rest relative to the local ground/air/etc'. But if you 'port into space, there isn't just one right answer to that - all sorts of different orbits through a given spot are just as good as eachother when it comes to not slamming into nearby things at ridiculous speeds. So the velocity you exit the teleport at is unclear, but very important (since it determines if you orbit or just fall) Teleporting into LEO isn't really all that useful if you fall back down in 10 minutes.

So at the very least, you probably need to directly teleport to some sort of reference object to make sure you get the velocity right too. Normally the reference object is 'the air' or 'the ground' or something, but if you're teleporting into space it'd be some existing orbiting object.

That may mean that the way to go is to e.g. synchronize your teleportation to astronomical events such as meteor showers which give you lots of reference objects to target your teleportation in velocity space. Alternately, use more direct means to launch a reference object into orbit without teleportation, and then you can just teleport-relay to and from LEO.

As far as what those means would be... magical flight probably won't cut it because its fixed movement speeds and apparent lack of inertia in normal use make it hard to figure out whether or not it can actually accelerate you into an orbit rather than just a suborbital trajectory. Epically buffed jump check maybe? Actually, a vertical evacuated paired ring-gate linear accelerator might be the best way to build up actual inertia, at which point the trick is to somehow rotate the whole thing without the accelerated object slamming into the frame (so you'd have to rotate it very quickly or have a significant vertical segment). Then if you teleport that thing high up and angle it, you might be able to get the several km/s you'd need to orbit.

Incidentally, as far as radiation goes, I've generally seen it run as a damage type which partially converts to Con drain as it heals, representing the long-term cumulative exposure effects. It's also often run as something that can get exacerbated by incautiously applied magical healing (e.g. going straight to Cure Criticals instead of first leading with a Restoration or Remove Disease) since that basically shoves positive energy into your newly mutated cells, causing a huge growth spurt of anything cancerous that might've had a chance to develop.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Necklace of Adaption should take care of your spacesuit needs.

The magic of the necklace wraps the wearer in a shell of fresh air, making him immune to all harmful vapors and gases (such as cloudkill and stinking cloud effects, as well as inhaled poisons) and allowing him to breathe, even underwater or in a vacuum.
Magical healing should take care of radiation exposure.

For a space station, Stronghold Builders Guide has options to make sealed, flying, teleporting bases. Getting up to LEO may take some time since they're slow but should be possible.
Otherwise you can probably rig some kind of propulsion device with a Decanter of Endless Water.

[Deophaun]

The point of Grease was the be the air sealant.
Grease would be as much an air sealant as water, alcohol, or anything liquid. It may be useful at repelling liquid water, but that's a completely different physical mechanic.

[TeslaJr]

If you're using some type of magical ship to get to space, a good protection against radiation would be to make an extra hull out of Riverine from Stormwrack. It's made out of highly pressurized water, and water makes pretty good radiation shielding.

[NichG]

Decanter of Endless Water gets you 3.84 kg m/s^2 of force on Geyser. So it will take a loooong time to get up to LEO speeds. I was curious, so I did the simulation - given a 70kg wizard teleporting to some height y0 above the ground, and assuming all parameters equivalent to Earth, how high do they need to teleport to reach a stable orbit using a Decanter before they hit the ground?

It turns out the answer is 840000km, or just slightly more than twice the Earth-Moon distance.

[Lord Lemming]

As a thought experiment, I once designed a spaceship using only spells and items found in the Pathfinder core rulebook. So far as I could tell, it would be perfectly spaceworthy, with the only problems I could think of being radiation and possibly drifting off the deck due to lack of gravity. Granted, you would bounce off the walls of force surrounding the ship before you went anyplace, but it would still be an inconvenience. I figured the cost would be somewhere in the ballpark of 1,000,000 gp, most of which is in flying carpets.

[lightningcat]

First and foremost, talk with the DM about what outer space is like in the setting.

There may not be a "outer space" as such, you may just go off into the far realms. It might be a Spelljammer type setup, or it might be similar enough to the real world, such as DragonStar. The stars might even just be a painted ceiling once you go high enough.

Remember that physics do not work the same way in D&D that they do in the real world, and only the DM can tell you the differences.

[BWR]

The DragonStar setting from Fantasy Flight Games. It's basically traditional D&D mixed with traditional SF. You have wizards and dragons and elves and orcs and ray guns and spaceships and magic and computers and magical constructs and every type of mix imaginable.
In short, science lets you learn the rules of the universe, magic lets you break them. Starships are technologically based when it comes to most structural engineering, life support, rockets, etc. but require magical drives to move FTL.

Mystara had a proto-Spelljammer approach - flying ships with magical protection. Its cosmology was far more reminiscient of real world stuff than SJ: stars are giant fusiuons reactors a long way away, space is cold and empty, planets are round and have gravity, it's quite a long ways away to your nearest stellar neighbor, etc. There were some magical oddities around, of course, like how the world is actually hollow with floating continents, yet local gravity on the continents and the entire world has regular ca. 1 g gravity on the outside despite being mostly empty.

A long lasting flight spell like Overland Flight, some protection from cold and some spell to give you air and pressure (I know they existed in 2e, can't remember if they do in 3.x), and a moderately powerful wizard should be able to reach space without much trouble.

[Gemini476]

Space in D&D, huh? Well, before we start to ramble on about how it SHOULD BE, let's see what the RAW is.
Handily enough, someone already mentioned Nailed to the Sky (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/nailedToTheSky.htm). That's our big go-to spell for what space is like within the ruleset of D&D.

Nailed to the sky actually places the target so far from the surface of the world and at such a speed that it keeps missing the surface as it falls back, so it enters an eternal orbit. Unless the target can magically fly or has some other form of non-physical propulsion available, the target is stuck until someone else rescues it. Even if the target can fly, the surface is 2 to 4 hours away, assuming a fly spell, which allows a maximum speed of 720 feet per round while descending. The target may not survive that long. Depending on the world where nailed to the sky is cast, conditions so far from its surface may be deadly. Deleterious effects include scorching heat, cold, and vacuum. Targets subject to these conditions take 2d6 points of damage each from heat or cold and 1d4 points of damage from the vacuum each round. The target immediately begins to suffocate.
One thing to note is that this is not from Low-Earth Orbit or anything like that - it's from 164-327 miles out.

So you take 1d4 untyped damage from the vacuum, 2d6 (fire?) damage from the heat, and 2d6 (cold?) damage from the cold. And begin to suffocate.

Suffocation

A character who has no air to breathe can hold her breath for 2 rounds per point of Constitution. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check in order to continue holding her breath. The save must be repeated each round, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous success.

When the character fails one of these Constitution checks, she begins to suffocate. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, she drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she suffocates.
Yeah.

So Fire Resistance 14, Cold Resistance 14, some way to get around 1d4 untyped damage (fast healing?), and some way to breath in vacuum. I believe the last has already been posted here, but I'd like to add that there's a neat spell in one of the DragonLance adventures that creates a zone of fresh air around you. It's pretty neat.

After you've got all that, just fly away. The description for Nailed to the Sky establishes that that works, after all.


Alright, that was the RAW. You may now return to arguing about whether or not cold damage makes sense (it doesn't, you're more likely to die from overheating than that) or whatever else you want.
Honestly, just having the suffocation bit would be enough. The other ones are waaaay too long-term.

[Inevitability]

I don't have anything meaningfull to add, but it just struck me that Feather Fall technically should be able to save you from falling to Earth from outer space...

[NichG]

After you've got all that, just fly away. The description for Nailed to the Sky establishes that that works, after all.


Hm, I'm not sure. It certainly establishes that you can return via Fly. That might or might not be consistent with being able to use Fly to enter orbit - it depends on how the magical flight of Fly works. For example, if magical flight is like a sort of fixed distance offset without inertia, then you can certainly return - by aerobraking. You lower your periapsis by a series of 720ft moves. Since 'descending' is explicitly mentioned (and is inconsistent with what moving around an orbit using inertia would be like, since in that case you'd be ascending in either direction you wanted to move away from the stable orbit), that suggests in favor of this 'fixed distance offset' method. Which means that as you fly down, your apoapsis rises and your orbit becomes more and more eccentric. Then you hit the atmosphere and start to bleed off speed, but since your descent rate is regulated by Fly and not by falling into the atmosphere at 4km/s, you don't get noticeable amounts of re-entry shock heating or anything like that as you would if you were falling (just make sure you don't let the spell lapse). But the reverse path would not work, since Fly does not give you the ability to move at 4km/sec - you could hover at any altitude you wanted though without orbiting, so it may be good enough for most purposes (you couldn't leave satellites in orbit though).

It might mean that using this to fly to the moon is going to result in a very nasty impact when you get there, with no atmosphere to bleed off the orbital velocity. Maybe thats where you use Levitation or something that specifies a fixed velocity with respect to the ground?

[Thealtruistorc]

Dragon Magazine has some 3.5 spelljammer content in the 330s as I recall.

[Crake]

If you want a technological approach to space travel, check out the d20 modern/future books.

[Zombulian]

In Shining South you will find a handy little 4th level spell called Suspension. I used it in an undead game as my characters contingency plan in case the BBGG ever managed to catch our party.


EDIT: Also, radiation is only a thing if your DM can either point it out in the books or rule 0s it to be a thing. If rule 0, research a custom spell. Make sure it has somatic component: Throw a book at the DMs head, for extra flavor.

Holy cow! Suspension is so silly! Especially if you have ways to keep concentration up without using actions. So like a Spirit Shaman with Extraordinary Concentration and boom, flying surfboard.

[Fable Wright]

Just going to say, using Plane Shift gets around that pesky range limitation. Plane Shift to the Astral plane, then Greater Plane Shift to absolutely any location on the prime material plane, no matter how well you know it or how distant it is. Best way of crossing intergalactic distances.

[themunck]

As a thought experiment, I once designed a spaceship using only spells and items found in the Pathfinder core rulebook. So far as I could tell, it would be perfectly spaceworthy, with the only problems I could think of being radiation and possibly drifting off the deck due to lack of gravity. Granted, you would bounce off the walls of force surrounding the ship before you went anyplace, but it would still be an inconvenience. I figured the cost would be somewhere in the ballpark of 1,000,000 gp, most of which is in flying carpets.

I don't suppose you documented that? It sounds awesome and interesting XD

[Winthur]

Save a princess, then buy a spaceship from one of the blacksmiths. Easy and classic.

[Coidzor]

If you're using some type of magical ship to get to space, a good protection against radiation would be to make an extra hull out of Riverine from Stormwrack. It's made out of highly pressurized water, and water makes pretty good radiation shielding.

Oh, good point. I always forget about that part of it and focus on the made out of walls of force component. XD

[Leviting]

If you didn't have that, could you just have two walls of force with a bunch of water (and fish!) between them?

[Coidzor]

If you didn't have that, could you just have two walls of force with a bunch of water (and fish!) between them?

Depends? :smallconfused: I think the highly pressurized part will prevent the water from turning into steam inside the Riverine. Not sure about Wall of Force Aquariums...

[Big Mac]

I know of it. Probably some useful material in there, sure. Spelljammer assumes space travel to be an existing thing in the world, though, and like you said, its vision of space is very much fantastical rather than realistic.

I have this image in my head of a campaign in which some NPC in a typical 3.5 setting wants to start the world's first space program, and is in need of adventurers to gather resources and personnel, assist with preparations, and eventually be the first astronauts. Seems to me like space travel actually wouldn't be that difficult for any medium-to-high level spellcaster who wanted to do it, though, so that probably wouldn't really be a thing.

In your original post you said a "typical D&D 3.5 setting". Both Forgotten Realms and Eberron have canon connections to Spelljammer. Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting has a section on The Sea of Night and the connection between Eberron and illithid spelljamming ships is in Monster Manual V. I don't recall a connection between Ghostwalk and Spelljammer and I don't think it was mentioned in the 3e Greyhawk products, but Spelljammer is "standard" D&D space for both 3rd Edition D&D and 4th Edition D&D.

If you don't want to go with the Spelljammer universe, it would still be worth looking at the Spelljammer rules, as they have been designed for this sort of thing. It would not be too hard to assume that spelljamming helms do not exist yet, but are magic items that could be invented during the course of a D&D campaign.

The main thing you need to sort out is - if there are no groups flying around space in spelljamming ships - who are your PCs going to meet up there?

You could fly from one planet to another planet (or to a moon) but you will need a ship that travels at spelljamming speed or your PCs are going to run out of food and water (even ignoring air). According to SJ rules it is just about possible to fly to a moon on the back of a dragon before the air runs out.

If you don't want to do anything (other than fly into space and back) you could just go there on the back of a dragon and be done with it. :smallsmile:

If you want to invent a ton of D&D rules for space being as deadly as the outer space around the real-world, you are probably going to tie yourself in knots. I've seen many Spelljammer fans start on a project to "make Spelljammer use real-world physics" and nobody has managed to get anywhere with it.

[BWR]

Dragonstar, for 3.0 admittedly, has rules for space travel and assumes most of the real world physics apply, except where explicitly overruled by magic and fun (science let's us understand the rules of the universe; magic let's us break them). It's a SF D&D setting so it will need a little work to adapt to a world where people are just now making their first attempts to reach space.

Pathfinder has the Distant Worlds supplement which details the setting's solar system and includes rules for space, vacuum, travel etc. in a setting which is basically traditional D&D world with real world solar system. It's a fun little supplement and lots of the stuff is basically stolen wholecloth from ERB's stories.

[Flickerdart]

Low-Earth Orbit starts at a little under 100 miles. If you could somehow cast teleport with a CL of 1, you would still have the range to make it.

Geosynchronous Orbit is a bit tougher. You need to have a CL of 23 to get there.
Or you can use a CL12 teleport twice.

[Gildedragon]

Gate?
Also ask if the astral plane is space; iirc it is in Eberron

Edit: easier yet, get to Sigil or The Infinite Staircase, use that to get somewhere in space. Sigil is preferable, use astronomy checks to confirm they are from another world in your plane

[Zweisteine]

If all you want is to go to space and back, greater teleport and a contingent greater teleport to return is the simplest route.

Telekinetic sphere works as well, though it will be hard to make it last long enough, and you'll need some sort of darkness spell to block the sun.

And everything depends on the realism of space. How will the vacuum affect you? How will the cold affect you? How will the sun's light and radiation affect you? (Telekinetic sphere plus darkness should protect from all of those, if normal physics are in effect beyond what magic specifically states.)

[JusticeZero]

If your world uses the specific ruleset that your players are used to, flight is relative to the surface of the nearest primary gravity well. As such, orbit is easy; fly to the equator, then straight up until you reach a geosynchronous orbit. Flight at 10mph means that on an Earth sized planet, you will need to ascend for about 93 days. (22,236 miles above sea level)
Exploration beyond that is lol. One of the defining characteristics about any kind of travel through space is that if you don't sound like a kindergartener trying to exaggerate everything, you probably have no clue what you're talking about, as all of the numbers get utterly absurd.

[Loxagn]

Off the top of my head, don't you need to be familiar with a location to teleport there? Or does that just eliminate the risk of mishaps?

Well, technically, it's within line of sight. Therefore, you can see it, therefore, you're familiar with it. :P

[Zweisteine]

It would take 4.5 hours to reach space (100km) using a continuous fly spell.

The real question is how high you have to go before you stop rotating with the planet as part of the magic.

[Morcleon]

On the topic of staying alive in space, I'd like to offer the power Adapt Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/adaptBody.htm). It specifically states that you are immune to environmental effects of hostile places, which covers quite a lot of the dangers of space. :smallbiggrin:

[OracleofWuffing]

Well, once activated, an Immovable Rod does not move barring a strength check, so, uh, I'll just stay in place and let the planet move away from me while I hold on for dear life.

:smallannoyed: And if you're telling me that it stays in place relative to the position it was activated, fine, I'll use two Immovable Rods and climb to space, staying in geosynchronous orbit all the way.

Also, I would advise not being a female tibbet. :smalltongue:

[JusticeZero]

It would take 4.5 hours to reach space (100km) using a continuous fly spell.

The real question is how high you have to go before you stop rotating with the planet as part of the magic.
Well, an antigravity effect in real life physics would not have to worry about such an effect. There isn't actually any alternative to "rotating with the planet" when you started from the planet.Once you leave the planet, you are still moving with the speed of rotating with the planet.

Seriously, folks. The 1800's called and they want their Luminiferous Aether drag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminiferous_aether#Negative_aether-drift_experiments) back. If you WANT to include luminiferous aether as the physics of your world, that would explain why flight effects have a fixed MPH speed value, but it also theoretically kind've requires that your universe be rather small and geocentric in order to deal with the problems created by moving celestial objects Dopplering all over the place. Also, not using familiar physics. but that's OK.
So yeah, climbing to geosynch is the way that matches our understanding of physics for the last century or so to now.

That said, it's possible you might start curving a bit, but it won't actually stop you from your orbital insertion. You just might have to have a somewhat higher orbit.

[Darkweave31]

I enjoy the method in the stronghold builder's guide.


Major components:
Life Support- wondrous architecture chamber of comfort (cycles fresh air, maintains temperature, comfortable breeze, eliminates smoke), depending on how you read it you'd be fine even if you opened a window in space for some reason (constant fresh air and comfy breeze means you can't be sucked out right?)
Walls- My preferred wall configuration is magically treated obdurium (because I think it's cool), lead sheeting (for radiation protection), and a wall of force on the outside. Make sections transparent for windows, make it airtight, submersible (I assume that surviving pressure underwater can roughly translate to vacuum of space). If you want to go full destruction cube stick a prismatic wall on the outside to ram enemies with.
Propulsion- 10 mph flight (roughly 85 ft per round) is pretty poor for traveling the cosmos, though it does mean you get to laugh at gravity. Where you'll really get your propulsion from is teleportation, allowing your stronghold to traverse the stars over any distance instantly (you just won;t be going anywhere fast once you get there).

I'd be surprised if it hasn't been mentioned yet, but spelljammer is another way to integrate space travel without using things in an unintended manner.

[Eaglejarl]

If your DM is making you worry about radiation, you might check Deeper Darkness and / or Utterdark. According to p81 of BoVD [spell synopsis, not full text], DD creates a region of "absolute darkness". That would mean no EM radiation enters or leaves, so the Van Allen belts are no longer a worry. Utterdark creates that same region but evil creatures can see in it / out of it. If you're not evil, then put an Arcane Eye on the edge of the field so you can see what's outside it.

The problem here is that d20srd.org says that Deeper Darkness is just a "shadowy illumination" field, so you'll have to figure out which one takes precedence.

[Slipperychicken]

I don't have anything meaningfull to add, but it just struck me that Feather Fall technically should be able to save you from falling to Earth from outer space...

It won't save you from burning up during re-entry. Or suffocating from a lack of air.


Well, once activated, an Immovable Rod does not move barring a strength check, so, uh, I'll just stay in place and let the planet move away from me while I hold on for dear life.


Just hope that the planet isn't traveling through the rod's space (i.e. the rod lies in the planet's path). That would be awkward :smallbiggrin:

[malonkey1]

Okay, I know it's a skiffy idea at best, but for propulsion, why not see about using a spell's explosive force?

This is all approximate math, but bear with me.

A Bigby's crushing hand spell (level 9) has an effective strength of 35. This is enough to move 5,734,400 pounds of equipment 20 feet in 6 seconds (80 if you can run encumbered). This equates to roughly 440.5 kilonewtons, which is a little over 4 times the thrust of an F-22 Raptor Engine (thanks, Wolfram Alpha!). If running encumbered is allowed, then it's around 1.76 meganewtons, or about 1/7 the force of a space shuttle's SRB at liftoff. Certainly this is enough for decent acceleration in space, and this is low-balling the amount of energy a 9th-level spell might contain. You could research a spell that offers any arbitrary amount of thrust, probably determining what level it would be based roughly around the effective strength scores of the various Bigby's hand spells.

[da_chicken]

If we're talking about a spelljammer, then it just works. It's a ****ing magic spaceship.

If we're talking about anything else, then we've got problems.

Using a fly spell or overland flight spell is impractical for a number of reasons. First, air pressure above 40,000 ft is insufficient to support life. Some people get altitude sickness going to 12,000 or 15,000 ft. You're going to need some form of life support. Bottle of air works, but necklace of adaptation is really the only good solution, since that neatly protects you from the issue of atmospheric pressure and allows you do use your mouth for something other than breathing.

Second, the upper atmosphere is cold. According to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Comparison_US_standard_atmosphere_1962.svg), we're looking at -60 F to 23 F, then plummeting to -120 F. That's beyond (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#coldDangers) an endure elements spell. You're going to need cold resistance 6 or better to avoid damage. Sure, you only have to worry about this in the atmosphere, but that's still 100 miles of extremely cold conditions to traverse.

Third, if you're looking to achieve a stable geosynchronous orbit, then you've got a major problem. Reaching the proper distance once you have life support and and some means of flight is just inevitability. To be able to orbit, however, you've got to be moving. Fast.

For a stable geosynchronous orbit, you're looking at ~6900 mph at ~22,000 miles. Unless your DM decides that teleportation spells somehow preserve momentum, you're going to have a hell of a time accelerating to that speed. If you don't accelerate to that speed, anything you drop is still going to fall. It'll fall really slowly (gravity is about 0.03% what it is at sea level at that distance) but it will fall without something holding it up. After all, that bit of gravity is what keeps you in orbit when moving at 6900 mph even when you're 22,000 miles from the surface.

For a near-earth orbit like the one the ISS is in, you'll have to move much faster. 230 miles up at 17,000 mph. At this altitude, if you're not in free-fall orbit, gravity is about 1/3 what it is on earth. And there's nothing holding you up if your spell runs out.

Finally, you have to deal with the effects of radiation or exposure. Immunity to poison or disease is probably sufficient, but unfortunately the primary items that do that, periapt of health and periapt of proof against poison, all occupy the same slot space as necklace of adaptation. You could manufacture a combined periapt of health and necklace of adaptation fairly cheaply, but the periapt of proof against poison is fairly expensive.

Beyond that, there seems to be a lot of very hostile environments in space that make Limbo and the Inner Planes seem downright hospitable. Taking as much energy resistance as you can makes sense to me.

[Inevitability]

On the topic of staying alive in space, I'd like to offer the power Adapt Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/adaptBody.htm). It specifically states that you are immune to environmental effects of hostile places, which covers quite a lot of the dangers of space. :smallbiggrin:

Adapt body also states that it, I quote; 'allows you to survive as if you were a creature native to that environment'. How does that work if there are no creatures native to the environment?

[Gildedragon]

Well you pretend that you are.
Doesn't matter how hostile the enviornment, the spell scours the realms of possibility to see how life would manage to survive in that element.
Albeit life might survive by being prolific rather than invulnerable, or by waiting things out in stasis.

Both of those are problems for an adventurer.

[137beth]

Plane shift to another plane, then Plane Shift back. No range limit or familiarity requirement.

[Slipperychicken]

Adapt body also states that it, I quote; 'allows you to survive as if you were a creature native to that environment'. How does that work if there are no creatures native to the environment?

This is D&D we're talking about. There are totally creatures native to outer space.

EDIT: Flumphs are arguably native to space.

[Totema]

Low-Earth Orbit starts at a little under 100 miles. If you could somehow cast teleport with a CL of 1, you would still have the range to make it.

Geosynchronous Orbit is a bit tougher. You need to have a CL of 23 to get there.
There's still the issue of having enough tangential velocity to maintain orbit. Otherwise you'd drop right back down to Earth. Now, if you could teleport outside of the Earth's sphere of influence, this isn't a problem anymore (though you would slowly plummet towards the sun). I don't think even greater deities would have the CL to do that, though...

[Slipperychicken]

There's still the issue of having enough tangential velocity to maintain orbit. Otherwise you'd drop right back down to Earth. Now, if you could teleport outside of the Earth's sphere of influence, this isn't a problem anymore (though you would slowly plummet towards the sun). I don't think even greater deities would have the CL to do that, though...

Cast greater teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportGreater.htm). 7th level spell, no failure chance, no range limit. Go wherever the f*** you want, because you're a 13th level wizard and you can hop between planets literally without lifting a finger (Teleport has no somatic components). You could be lying in your bed after preparing spells, say the magic word, and suddenly you're on Pluto.

As for "life support", you'll get the least headaches from a continuous Planar Bubble effect (Sorc/Wiz 7, Cleric 7, Planar Handbook), whether it's centered on you, or your "spaceship". Even without a fancy custom item, just casting the spell normally will get you 2 hours 10 minutes of life support at the minimum CL. If desired, use Archmage to restrict the effect to your square rather than a 10ft radius.

[Flame of Anor]

One thing to note is that this is not from Low-Earth Orbit or anything like that - it's from 164-327 miles out.

That's Low Earth Orbit exactly.


[Feather Fall] won't save you from burning up during re-entry. Or suffocating from a lack of air.

It will absolutely save the recipient from burning up during reentry. The burning-up effect is due to compression heating caused by extreme speed, and speed is what Feather Fall gets rid of. But you're right about the air. You'd need a different spell for that.

[Ravens_cry]

Give everyone aboard necklaces of adaptation. Fill the ship with air so you can all talk to each other and in case of magic items stop working, but that should keep everyone alive just fine.
One idea I had was basically a magical version of 1960's Project Orion, only with antimatter from a rather dangerously RAW version of major creation, telekinetic spheres, and spring loaded pistons surrounding the bubble. Just make sure the Pointy End goes toward Space, or you are having a Bad Problem, and will Not Go To Space Today. (http://xkcd.com/1133/)

[Inevitability]

Just an addition to the 'feather fall' stuff, I just noticed that if you fall from 100 kilometers, you'd need a CL of more than 5000 to actually reach the ground before the spell ends.

Persisted feather fall would work though.

[Doorhandle]

Just going to say, using Plane Shift gets around that pesky range limitation. Plane Shift to the Astral plane, then Greater Plane Shift to absolutely any location on the prime material plane, no matter how well you know it or how distant it is. Best way of crossing intergalactic distances.

Well I always thought the astral plane was basically hyperspace, but now you've proved it...

Come to think of it, how do timeless planes work? Does time still pass in them? If you go in one for a subjective year and then go out of it, at what point do you return?

edit: In before interplanetary teleport. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/interplanetary-teleport)

[BWR]

Well I always thought the astral plane was basically hyperspace, but now you've proved it...

Come to think of it, how do timeless planes work? Does time still pass in them? If you go in one for a subjective year and the go out of it, at what point do you return?

Dragonstar has spaceships that jump into the Astral, travel, then jump out at their destination. Subjective experiences occur but time does not pass, so long-term Astraldrive crew tend to outlive their short-lived family andfriends (since DS Astral doesn't have lost time catching up with you).

[hamishspence]

Space in D&D, huh? Well, before we start to ramble on about how it SHOULD BE, let's see what the RAW is.
Handily enough, someone already mentioned Nailed to the Sky (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/nailedToTheSky.htm). That's our big go-to spell for what space is like within the ruleset of D&D.

One thing to note is that this is not from Low-Earth Orbit or anything like that - it's from 164-327 miles out.


Depending on the world where nailed to the sky is cast, conditions so far from its surface may be deadly. Deleterious effects include scorching heat, cold, and vacuum. Targets subject to these conditions take 2d6 points of damage each from heat or cold and 1d4 points of damage from the vacuum each round. The target immediately begins to suffocate.

So you take 1d4 untyped damage from the vacuum, 2d6 (fire?) damage from the heat, and 2d6 (cold?) damage from the cold. And begin to suffocate.

Yeah.

So Fire Resistance 14, Cold Resistance 14, some way to get around 1d4 untyped damage (fast healing?), and some way to breath in vacuum. I believe the last has already been posted here, but I'd like to add that there's a neat spell in one of the DragonLance adventures that creates a zone of fresh air around you. It's pretty neat.


Since it says "2d6 damage from heat or cold" I'm guessing you don't take both at once, normally. Maybe heat damage on dayside, cold damage on nightside?

[Inevitability]

I think that's the idea. After all, it is kind of difficult for a place to be freezing cold and burning hot at the same time, isn't it? :smallwink:

[hamishspence]

I suppose a character could be taking damage on both sides of their body - the side facing the Sun burns, the side facing away freezes.

[137beth]

If your DM is making you worry about radiation, you might check Deeper Darkness and / or Utterdark. According to p81 of BoVD [spell synopsis, not full text], DD creates a region of "absolute darkness". That would mean no EM radiation enters or leaves, so the Van Allen belts are no longer a worry. Utterdark creates that same region but evil creatures can see in it / out of it. If you're not evil, then put an Arcane Eye on the edge of the field so you can see what's outside it.

The problem here is that d20srd.org says that Deeper Darkness is just a "shadowy illumination" field, so you'll have to figure out which one takes precedence.

Assuming d20srd has accurately transcribed the errata+core rules (which it usually does), it takes precedence. WotC normally has conflicting information about which book takes precedence (core books win disputes, but more recent books (usually non-core) also win disputes:smallconfused:). In this case, though, BoVD is 3.0, hence earlier than 3.5 core, so the 3.5 core takes precedence.

So...can anyone figure out how to explain how to go to space using only the ten hundred words people use the most often? (http://xkcd.com/1133/)

[Morcleon]

Adapt body also states that it, I quote; 'allows you to survive as if you were a creature native to that environment'. How does that work if there are no creatures native to the environment?

Mynocks? :smalltongue:

But it means that you are now a creature native to that environment, regardless of if such existed beforehand.

[Slipperychicken]

Just an addition to the 'feather fall' stuff, I just noticed that if you fall from 100 kilometers, you'd need a CL of more than 5000 to actually reach the ground before the spell ends.

Persisted feather fall would work though.

Just wait till you get 60ft from the ground, then you can cast it at CL 1 and land safely.

[Inevitability]

But then you still burn up on the way down...

[Slipperychicken]

But then you still burn up on the way down...

I already pointed that bit out. I was talking about the fall itself, not the burning.

[SinsI]

Peasant Railgun yourself to reach the speed necessary to go to space. Be an undead to survive the flight.

[Gildedragon]

Peasant Railgun yourself to reach the speed necessary to go to space.

That speed is 0. Peasant railgun doesn't accelerate an object; it merely moves it

[Tvtyrant]

Shaped Wall of Force with a hole that is smaller then the inflow of water from a protected Decanter of Endless Water. As more and more water builds up in the box the pressure builds and shoots out fast, so it takes a while to build up to maximum speed but eventually it really gets going. Make the box very small and it reaches full speed rather quickly.

[malonkey1]

That speed is 0. Peasant railgun doesn't accelerate an object; it merely moves it

Find a way to make the peasant's weight negligible, make a Peasant Railgun space elevator.

[137beth]

Peasant Railgun yourself to reach the speed necessary to go to space. Be an undead to survive the flight.

There's no inertia in D&D, so at the end of the peasant railgun you stop instantly.

[Coidzor]

Find a way to make the peasant's weight negligible, make a Peasant Railgun space elevator.


There's no inertia in D&D, so at the end of the peasant railgun you stop instantly.

So what does this mean in terms of orbital mechanics? Is there a ready simulator for such things? Would one keep whatever acceleration/velocity one had from being on the surface and part of its rotation?

[NichG]

So what does this mean in terms of orbital mechanics? Is there a ready simulator for such things? Would one keep whatever acceleration/velocity one had from being on the surface and part of its rotation?

Hm... this kind of physics absent inertia is really really weird. 'Orbits' in the sense of closed elliptic trajectories are not a thing in such a system, because orbits require conservation of energy and momentum to prevent stuff from just sliding down the gravity well.

Essentially, instead of having equations that look like dv/dt = F/m, you have equations that look like dx/dt = F/m.

Now, given that there's a 6 second timescale in D&D, and that you can still have things like arrows which undergo free flight and hit a target, its more likely that the inertia-less D&D universe has equations of motion that look like:

dv/dt = F/m - v/(6 seconds)

Basically, objects have inertia on timescales less than 6 seconds but not on timescales much greater than 6 seconds. Such a universe also has an absolute reference frame for v=0, which probably means that the planet doesn't rotate.

You really have to throw out a lot of physics for this to work though. For example, heat can no longer exist as the motion of particles - the dissipative term means that everything freezes in 6-18 seconds. Sound gets damped quickly, and things cannot be heard more than a few kilometers away. Light would also not propagate over long distances (>6 light seconds).

[Flickerdart]

Light would also not propagate over long distances (>6 light seconds).
That explains why you can't Spot the sun.

[malonkey1]

That explains why you can't Spot the sun.

Of course you can, that's why there's sunspots!