Startrek geeks

[Willahad]

Although it ended six years ago my favorite show is voyager. It's the only one with a plot and realistic characters

[Jazzvader]

You're a special person, aren't you?

[Willahad]

You're a special person, aren't you?

Huh?:smallconfused:

[pestilenceawaits]

Huh?:smallconfused:

I think he just mean that most trekkers hate voyager with a passion (except seven of nine of course). :smallsmile:

[SDF]

The only two I've ever really liked are Voyager and DS9, but that's okay because I'm not much of a trekkie anyhow... Now Star Wars... I could probably write an encyclopedia. The best RPG games I've ever run have been Star Wars D20 games.

[averagejoe]

I think he just mean that most trekkers hate voyager with a passion (except seven of nine of course). :smallsmile:

Now, wait, I always thought that she was a reason to hate...

Oh, right, breasts.

I always thought Kes was a way better character myself. But, then again, I think with my brain. I never rabidly hated voyager, and there are some that I liked, but the dialogue always tended to be extaordinarliy predictable and dull, and it seemed like "time travel" plotlines happened way more than in any of the other Star Treks, and those were only rarely good and way too overdone to begin with.

[Willahad]

The reason I like voyager the best was because of the episodes,not the characters. I don't really like seven of nine

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I always liked Voyager alot, though really, I liked all the star treks besides for Enterprise. The Original series I only really warm up to based on individual episodes. Just too cheesy in most instances, though the movies rocked.

Personally I never cared liked 7 of 9 half as much as Kes. Then again, we knew when she signed up that something would have to happen considering most series in Trek time last more years than the series itself and she could only possibly live to nine.

[Willahad]

I never rabidly hated voyager, and there are some that I liked, but the dialogue always tended to be extaordinarliy predictable and dull, and it seemed like "time travel" plotlines happened way more than in any of the other Star Treks, and those were only rarely good and way too overdone to begin with.

I agree the time traveling episodes were the stupid ones. exept "Year of hell parts one and two"

[purple gelatinous cube o' Doom]

\. The best RPG games I've ever run have been Star Wars D20 games.

That really suprises me since the game becomes massively broken at higher levels. with the whole vitality/wound points createing a whoever crits first wins situation really makes the game no fun. As for Star trek, TNG and DS9 are without a doubt the best. The original series has merit due to being the original (cheesy as it was). Voyager is ok a points, but it was subpar for the most part. Enterprise is the abomination that should never have been made. (Note: I believe there are multiple Star Trek threads in the media section.)

[Zephra]

you know what, they almost kept Kes and got rid of Kim. they decided not to because he won an award for some dumb thing like 'nicest face' grrrr.
I think seven and kes would have been great together.

[EmeraldRose]

A similar thread link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30033&highlight=Star+Trek)

And another link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26806&page=3&highlight=Star+Trek)

[Rockphed]

My two bits: I only liked the original and voyager. The original was a space western, lots of fights, and voyager was an action thingie. I never saw enough DS9 to know, but it was rather odd the bits I saw. Next Gen was too much talkie bits.

And, shouldn't this really go in Media?

[Logic]

I liked the concept of Voyager. "Lets have a show where it really is Where no man has gone before." It's implementation is what royally screwed Star Trek over.
I like Jeri Ryan as an actress, and I think she made the character believable around the late 6th, early 7th season. However, many Trek fans liked her simply because she was well endowed and nice to look at.
The best episodes of Voyager are almost always centered around The Doctor. Robert Picardo is easily the most talented actor on that series, and gets my nomination for most talented actor of all the Star Trek series.
Though the Tom Paris and Harry Kim characters are slightly cliched, I liked the characters and the dynamic that the 2 of them represented.
I personally don't like Janeway. She seemed to make the worst decisions quite frequently, and I did not feel as if she had a commanding presence, let alone any experiance in the area.

(Throws another vote for this to go to "Media Discussions")

[Willahad]

you know what, they almost kept Kes and got rid of Kim. they decided not to because he won an award for some dumb thing like 'nicest face' grrrr.
I think seven and kes would have been great together.

Actually I think that the actress who played Kes left the show

[Grey Watcher]

Personally, Voyager was what turned me off of newer Star Trek to begin with. Though the episode or two I saw of Enterprise didn't impress me much, either. While it had its moments, certainly (the Q episodes were gems), I found the characters to be rather one-dimensional (Captain Janeway seemed little more than Kate Mulgrew's best imitation of Katherine Hepburn, Chakotay's trenchant insight from his heritage grew pretty tiresome after a while, that half-Klingon woman wasn't bad....), and the writing strained plausibilty (for instance, how can a society as fracture as the... Keason, was it? supposedly is have this one tiny group pursue Voyager for so long and so far. And the episode where Delta quadrant aliens had been abducting humans for what? Slave labor? Why go accross the galaxy when you've got groups like the Keason Nistrum right in your back yard? So yeah, the idea had potential, but the writing just didn't measure up to the standard that I felt The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine set. So, yeah, between those issues and the fact taht I was starting to do college and stuff, I just stopped following it after a while.

[Doglord]

I love each and every star trek equally.... I also love dogs.

[averagejoe]

The best episodes of Voyager are almost always centered around The Doctor. Robert Picardo is easily the most talented actor on that series, and gets my nomination for most talented actor of all the Star Trek series.

Yeah, Robert Picardo pretty much wins. I would have liked to see him in a different context, though, just because both him and seven had a bit of a "Data" thing going on.

[Totally Guy]

Does anybody else hear the Father Chistmas "He knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you're awake", song when the end credits to the prequel series?

[SDF]

Logic pretty much nailed my opinion on Voyager.


and the writing strained plausibilty (for instance, how can a society as fracture as the... Keason, was it? supposedly is have this one tiny group pursue Voyager for so long and so far. And the episode where Delta quadrant aliens had been abducting humans for what? Slave labor? Why go accross the galaxy when you've got groups like the Keason Nistrum right in your back yard?

I'm not going to disagree, but seriously... THAT is your plot hole problem with Star Trek? Plausibility is pretty much a vulgarity to that series.

[Gorbash Kazdar]

Like Logic, I was very much intrigued with Voyager's general concept, but was left underwhelmed by the execution, most of the time. Occasional episodes of Voyager were excellent (I enjoyed several of the ones involving the Borg and Species 8472, for example), but on the whole the series tended to be very mediocre - not flat-out bad, but not very good, either.

Personally, I had two big complaints with the series. First, I felt they failed to really sell the "lost in space" concept. I would have very much liked having episodes focused on the crew kludging together solutions to things as they ran out of limited supplies - jury-rigging local munitions to replace photon torpedos, trading for small craft to replace lost shuttles, and so forth. It would have been nice if, over time, the ship model and sets had started to show wear and patch-worked repairs, rather than everything staying neat and clean.

My other major issue was with Janeway. Not with the actress, but with the writing. I thought the writers became really schitzophrenic when it came to her. My initial impression of the character was as an "Iron Lady," a hard-as-nails, take no nonsense ballbuster. I liked that concept - Kirk was an adventurer, Picard a diplomat, Sisco a sort of prophet/spiritual leader (even beyond his actual religious status with the Bajorans). Janeway would have fallen into the hardcore, disciplined, military style leader. However, the writers couldn't seem to settle on making her that cold and ruthless, instead repeatedly trying to include a "softer" side that just wasn't as compelling. In my opinion, Janeway should have been written a bit more like Admiral Cain from BattleStar Galactica, and Chakotay should have served as the one to provide the softer, more personal touch. I would have liked that dynamic a lot more.

[Grey Watcher]

My other major issue was with Janeway. Not with the actress, but with the writing. I thought the writers became really schitzophrenic when it came to her. My initial impression of the character was as an "Iron Lady," a hard-as-nails, take no nonsense ballbuster. I liked that concept - Kirk was an adventurer, Picard a diplomat, Sisco a sort of prophet/spiritual leader (even beyond his actual religious status with the Bajorans). Janeway would have fallen into the hardcore, disciplined, military style leader. However, the writers couldn't seem to settle on making her that cold and ruthless, instead repeatedly trying to include a "softer" side that just wasn't as compelling. In my opinion, Janeway should have been written a bit more like Admiral Cain from BattleStar Galactica, and Chakotay should have served as the one to provide the softer, more personal touch. I would have liked that dynamic a lot more.

You know, I never thought of it, but that's true.

Oh, and it's Cisco, isn't it? Sysco's a company, I'm pretty sure....

Anyway, on the subject of plausibility. I dunno. While Star Trek has a long and storied history of playing somewhat fast and loose with the laws of physics (though, in their defense, they usually know when they're going beyond), my problem was, more in terms of story, character, and the like. The Keason Nistrum thing is more my mother's objection than mine, but it speaks to the same point as my other objections, and even Gorby's critique. The writers not being creative or decisive or independent enough to make good decisions and limit their characters appropriately.

[averagejoe]

Actually, you're both wrong. It's Sisko.

[Willahad]

Personally, I had two big complaints with the series. First, I felt they failed to really sell the "lost in space" concept. I would have very much liked having episodes focused on the crew kludging together solutions to things as they ran out of limited supplies - jury-rigging local munitions to replace photon torpedos, trading for small craft to replace lost shuttles, and so forth. It would have been nice if, over time, the ship model and sets had started to show wear and patch-worked repairs, rather than everything staying neat and clean.

In all the other startrek shows, (especialy DS9) the captain could just go back the way they came to get backup if faced with a diffucult situation. But in Voyager the whole plot what to get home. For example; the episodes "Year of hell" parts one and two wouldn't of worked with any other show. Also their exuse for never running out of anything is replecaters

[AmoDman]

Yeah, Robert Picardo pretty much wins. I would have liked to see him in a different context, though, just because both him and seven had a bit of a "Data" thing going on.

Screw that. There might have been a bit of a Data complex, but the Doctor was freaking fantastic just the way he was. He's possibly my favorite Trek character next to Picard.

Gorbash, you are totally right though. I was younger when I watched Voyager and liked it anyway, but they certainly should've made the show feel more urgent. Replacement shuttles and alien technology/wear and tear integrated here and there in the ship would have been fricking awesome. But no, of course, there is no better technology in all the Universe, apparently, than the Federation's...blah.

[JadedDM]

I hated Year of Hell. I can't stand those time travel plots where everyone dies and all hope is lost, but wait, it never actually happened! So an entire year of character development and plot was ERASED. It never happened. What a waste.

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

I always liked Voyager alot, though really, I liked all the star treks besides for Enterprise. The Original series I only really warm up to based on individual episodes. Just too cheesy in most instances, though the movies rocked.

Personally I never cared liked 7 of 9 half as much as Kes. Then again, we knew when she signed up that something would have to happen considering most series in Trek time last more years than the series itself and she could only possibly live to nine.

I'm with you; Kes was a much better character than 7/9. there was so much potential that she had. I guess (.)(.) are more important than character.

[AmoDman]

I guess (.)(.) are more important than character.


Parentheses and periods?!

[SDF]

I'm with you; Kes was a much better character than 7/9. there was so much potential that she had. I guess (.)(.) are more important than character.

Wait, aren't (.)(.) and character the same thing? :smallamused: *ducks from the onslaught of angry females and their boyfriends*

[Logic]

In all the other startrek shows, (especialy DS9) the captain could just go back the way they came to get backup if faced with a diffucult situation. But in Voyager the whole plot what to get home. For example; the episodes "Year of hell" parts one and two wouldn't of worked with any other show. Also their exuse for never running out of anything is replecaters
Replicators can only supply certain parts that they have the material on hand to recreate.
Several materials (please don't ask me to name them) have been identified as unreplicatable because of the materials required (antimatter being one)
And replicators have to have the base elements in storage to make the item in question.
If you want iodized table salt from the replicator, but are out of sodium, chlorine, or iodine, then you will be unable to make iodized table salt.

I hated Year of Hell. I can't stand those time travel plots where everyone dies and all hope is lost, but wait, it never actually happened! So an entire year of character development and plot was ERASED. It never happened. What a waste.
It's pretty much a "What If?" episode, which I have always enjoyed. Though there is a similar episode in that context in the 1st or 2nd season where "time resets/corrects itself" that I could not stand.

[valis]

Although it ended six years ago my favorite show is voyager. It's the only one with a plot and realistic characters

Yeah... dude you're in the minority here. There are a hand full of eps that good but the bulk of the series is fairly absurd. The longer the series went on the more absurd the eps became. It's almost as if the writers made a game out of how moronic they could make it and still have a fan base. Brannon Braga, Joe Menosky, and Kenneth Biller are laughing it up right now and somking cigars lit with hundred dollar bills that have your name on them.

[AmoDman]

Yeah... dude you're in the minority here. There are a hand full of eps that good but the bulk of the series is fairly absurd. The longer the series went on the more absurd the eps became. It's almost as if the writers made a game out of how moronic they could make it and still have a fan base. Brannon Braga, Joe Menosky, and Kenneth Biller are laughing it up right now and somking cigars lit with hundred dollar bills that have your name on them.

You can't say for sure he's in the minority. I thought the show was alright, and I'd say alright enough to watch was the majority considering how long it was on the air. The haters are usually the most vocal :P.

[Tharj TreeSmiter]

Although it ended six years ago my favorite show is voyager. It's the only one with a plot and realistic characters

You must have watched a different voyager. I remember show after show of "plots" where they would send one guy to investigate an anomoly in an unguarded shuttle. And how many times did janeway get attacked by the Kazan and only reply with "hail them." Ok hail them the first time it happens but the next time you blow them away!

And how many episodes did they essentially copy from TNG?

Most episodes I knew what the entire plot was about 10 minutes into the show. Very little was original or creative, my impression of voyager was that of a soap opera in space. The worst of the three new series for sure.

[Willahad]

Most episodes I knew what the entire plot was about 10 minutes into the show. Very little was original or creative, my impression of voyager was that of a soap opera in space. The worst of the three new series for sure.

The others didn't even make an attempt at a plot ( espesialy DS9)

[Muz]

The others didn't even make an attempt at a plot ( espesialy DS9)

Sarcasm meter...off the chart!! *dives from explosion* :smallwink:

...At least I hope that was sarcasm.

[Willahad]

I hated Year of Hell. I can't stand those time travel plots where everyone dies and all hope is lost, but wait, it never actually happened! So an entire year of character development and plot was ERASED. It never happened. What a waste.

I agree. It was a great episode until the end:smallannoyed:

[Willahad]

Yeah... dude you're in the minority here. There are a hand full of eps that good but the bulk of the series is fairly absurd. The longer the series went on the more absurd the eps became. It's almost as if the writers made a game out of how moronic they could make it and still have a fan base. Brannon Braga, Joe Menosky, and Kenneth Biller are laughing it up right now and somking cigars lit with hundred dollar bills that have your name on them.

Ah. Well. In that case

[Willahad]

Sarcasm meter...off the chart!! *dives from explosion* :smallwink:

...At least I hope that was sarcasm.

What I meant was the plot in voyager was to get home through out the whole show. the other didn't have one constant plot

[Tharj TreeSmiter]

What I meant was the plot in voyager was to get home through out the whole show. the other didn't have one constant plot

Yes but individual episode plots were often predictable and dull. The worst (IMO) were the many episodes that they blatantly ripped off of TNG episodes.

And DS9 had a running plot for quite a while. The dominion war, Sisko being the prophet, and such. They even tied them all together by the end.

[Kyral]

Gaaah! The triple posting! It burns my eyes!
I was always a TNG Trekkie, myself. The character development was relatively consistent, the plots were nice and engaging, the characters were human (well...you know what I mean :smallamused:), and the different cultures seemed realistic, except for the fact that most of them were almost entirely humanoid. I would have liked to see a race like that in the end of TOS's Catspaw (the true forms of Korob and Sylvia) be an actual member of one of the Star Trek crews. TOS, of course, started it all, so while the plots might be relatively simplistic, it deserves plenty of credit. I haven't seen enough DS9 to make an intelligent decision about it, but it seemed like a decent show. Voyager, on the other hand, was a terrible show. The characters seemed repetitive and boring, (The Doctor is exempt from this rant) there were plot holes, and I didn't think it carried on the high standard that is Star Trek. And Enterprise, while a decent show, was certainly not as good as TOS and TNG, and the finale was disappointing.

[TinSoldier]

I liked Voyager. I never watched DS9 because I was into Babylon 5 at the time. I still have Voyager episode 1 on VHS tape.

[Lord Herman]

Voyager has some good episodes, but it lacks an interesting plotline. The plot of Voyager is simply 'Voyager tries to get home, and succeeds in the end'. That's it. DS9 had a much more interesting plotline. A single episode could have great ramifications for the storyline. When the Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar blow up the founders' homeworld, there is no temporal doohickey that reverses those events. Episodes really matter.

That's all IMO, of course.

[anphorus]

Isn't Voyager the only series that had an entire episode erased from canon simply because it was so godawful? The one where Paris goes at warp 10 and mutates into a weird space-fish thingy?

[valis]

Isn't Voyager the only series that had an entire episode erased from canon simply because it was so godawful? The one where Paris goes at warp 10 and mutates into a weird space-fish thingy?

Wait I remember that ep. You're saying that they just closed their eyes and wished it into the corn field because it was so bad.

[Lord Herman]

You're talking about Treshold. Gods, that was bad. Although IMO, Parallax was worse. Come on, shooting a hole in the event horizon of a black hole? Don't they have scientific advisors to prevent exactly that kind of nonsense?

[Ava]

Hey, Star Trek Voyager is my favorite series too. :)
The rest are okay... I think Data is the only character I like on Enterprise.

[averagejoe]

Pshhh, Warf whups Tuvok and Belanna up and down. At the same time.

[Caelestion]

Are we deliberately misspelling stuff for a game? Some of those are way out :)

I liked Voyager too, but then I pretty much like all of Star Trek. Kes (Jennifer Lien) is FAR more attractive than Seven of Nine (Jeri Ryan).

[averagejoe]

Are we deliberately misspelling stuff for a game? Some of those are way out :)

I liked Voyager too, but then I pretty much like all of Star Trek. Kes (Jennifer Lien) is FAR more attractive than Seven of Nine (Jeri Ryan).

Nah, some of us just zone out during the oppening credits. I spelled them phonetically correct, anyways.

Kes totally owned. Too bad for that whole nine year lifespan thing.

[ray53208]

What I meant was the plot in voyager was to get home through out the whole show. the other didn't have one constant plot


hello?! dominon war, anyone? the pah wraiths return? no plots?

i guess *i'm* just dreaming all that plot up then.

[Saithis Bladewing]

hello?! dominon war, anyone? the pah wraiths return? no plots?

i guess *i'm* just dreaming all that plot up then.

I must be as well. All the pah wraiths, Dominion War, internal struggles in Cardassia, intricacies of the Obsidian Order, the history of Dr. Bashir, the politics of the Klingon Empire, the politics of Starfleet Command...

Hell, if I recall correctly, DS9 even made a point of referencing episodes and mini plotlines from the first couple seasons before they really had a cohesive plot, pulling them into the main plot a bit more.

DS9 had real consequences for its actions. There was almost never a temporal distortion or some similar event to deal with any mistakes. They made a mistake, they had to live with it. I think that's one of the reasons why I liked it, it made it a lot darker and more serious. The characters also made a lot of mistakes, and they knew they were prone to make mistakes. Made them feel far more realistic and "human" than most of the Voyager cast...

[averagejoe]

And it had Worf. Gotta love Worf. Plus I liked how O'Brien was one of the main characters.

Actually, I'm not sure if I like either TNG or DS9 better, but one thing I always liked about TNG was that it had an episode here or there focusing on one or two of the recurring minor characters, like Reg Barkely or that one crazy Maquis Bjoren woman. I always enjoyed those. Plus TNG had the best ending, which included one of the few pieces of true hardcore sci fi to be found in any Star Trek.

[ray53208]

i was debating this with a buddy of mine yesterday... who was the better engineer: laforge or obrien?

im going to have to vote for obrien. geordie is a great guy and all, but miles kicked serious tail as chief engineer of ds9.

[Logic]

but miles kicked serious tail as chief engineer of ds9.
QFT

However, Scotty is my favorite engineer. Miles came pretty damn close though.
None of the others can even touch these two.