Gotta cast em all!

[Gwazi Magnum]

Basically what method do you find works the best for casting and knowing the most spells possible?

ATM I'm thinking of generic spellcaster who focusrs thier feats in crafting cheaper knowstones.

[Hangwind]

STP Erudite:smallsmile:

[Callin]

Archivist. Using the Vitality Variant you can cast spells every round till you get sick of casting. Cast spell as standard action, cast the lvl 1 paladin spell that removes Fatigue as a swift action. Rinse and Repeat. Also have access to every spell in game.

[Gwazi Magnum]

STP Erudite:smallsmile:

I remember that.
My main issue is that it's limited by the exp you want to spend.


Archivist. Using the Vitality Variant you can cast spells every round till you get sick of casting. Cast spell as standard action, cast the lvl 1 paladin spell that removes Fatigue as a swift action. Rinse and Repeat. Also have access to every spell in game.

How?
It just looks like a normal Wizard but using the Cleric spell list.

[Callin]

I remember that.
My main issue is that it's limited by the exp you want to spend.



How?
It just looks like a normal Wizard but using the Cleric spell list.

It can put ANY Divine spell in its Prayer Book. Spellcaster (I know for a fact) and Artificer (So I hear on here) can both scribe Arcane Spells as Divine Scrolls. Search em out and you have access to every spell in the game. And not limited to Spontaneous Spellcasting like the Spellcaster. Like ya said they are like Wizards.. just cranked up to 11.

[Nettlekid]

Seconding StP Erudite. Technically powers are SLAs, which would suggest they aren't lost by copies made with Body Outside Body. Get the spell Mental Pinnacle as a quick PP recharge, and Body Outside Body. Also find some Recaster or Wyrm Wizard to drain. Use Body Outside Body, and keep manifesting Temporal Reiteration to stop them from expiring. Have one copy touch the caster and learn the spell you want. Once the copy has it, they can Psychic Chirurgery it into you. Then have it or another copy use Psychic Reformation on the caster to have it pick a different spell. Rinse and repeat until you have all spells with only the cost from your own XP reserve spent getting Body Outside Body and Mental Pinnacle.

[Hangwind]

Alternately, you can use Sha'ir X/ Chameleon 2. Use the chameleon floating feat to pick up extra spell every day. Then, using the research rules that allow you to emulate any spell and put it on the wiz/sorc spell list, cast the spell and identify it. Now you have every spell in the game, though you are two levels behind on your class progression.

[Tulya]

It can put ANY Divine spell in its Prayer Book. Spellcaster (I know for a fact) and Artificer (So I hear on here) can both scribe Arcane Spells as Divine Scrolls. Search em out and you have access to every spell in the game. And not limited to Spontaneous Spellcasting like the Spellcaster. Like ya said they are like Wizards.. just cranked up to 11.

That was errata'd, unfortunately.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a

Eberron Campaign Setting Errata
Page 32: Artificer—Item Creation
Magic items created by an artificer are considered
neither arcane nor divine

Edit: Complete Arcane's Warlock never received similar errata though.

[Chronos]

Depending on your (and your DM's) interpretation of archivists, it's either them or wizards. Neither one has any limit on how many spells they can learn beyond the number of spells that exist in the game.

[nedz]

There are 685 Bard spells, 1459 Cleric spells, 1086 Druid spells and 2516 Wizard spells in the game.

Now these numbers are wrong in that they include a number of duplicates and omit Domain spells, but it's going to be an Wizard of some kind.

[Jeff the Green]

That was errata'd, unfortunately.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a

Eberron Campaign Setting Errata
Page 32: Artificer—Item Creation
Magic items created by an artificer are considered
neither arcane nor divine

Edit: Complete Arcane's Warlock never received similar errata though.

Doesn't matter all that much. Team up with an artificer: you provide the XP and Scribe Scroll feat, he provides the spell. Since it's your XP, you're considered the creator and it's a divine spell.


There are 685 Bard spells, 1459 Cleric spells, 1086 Druid spells and 2516 Wizard spells in the game.

Now these numbers are wrong in that they include a number of duplicates and omit Domain spells, but it's going to be an Wizard of some kind.

Most of the wizard ones are available to an archivist through the divine magician cleric ACF or favored of Bahamut favored soul ACF.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Wizard is ruled as Wizard spells, hence why there's a specific wizard spell list and not simply a note saying "Pick any spell".

As for Archivist, it's doesn't say any spell. It specifically says Cleric spells.
Also it's not a Cleric itself, so those ACF's won't even work since you're not even playing a Cleric but rather a different class that is just getting spells from the Cleric list.

[Tulya]

As for Archivist, it's doesn't say any spell. It specifically says Cleric spells.

The clerical restriction is for the free spells at each level - they're able to learn and prepare any divine spells.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3

The archivist can learn and thus prepare nonclerical divine spells in this fashion but the two free spells he gains for advancing in class level must be selected from the cleric spell list.

The ACFs and feats people often cite are means to learn and/or prepare and cast Arcane spells as Divine spells, so that they can theoretically be cast into Divine scrolls, and thus learnable by Archivists.
In practice, I doubt many groups are nearly that permissive.

[Captnq]

Doesn't matter all that much. Team up with an artificer: you provide the XP and Scribe Scroll feat, he provides the spell. Since it's your XP, you're considered the creator and it's a divine spell.

So, as a DM, you would allow this?

Because when I read Artificer, he can only pretend to have spells, he doesn't actually know them. And he can only pretend to have spells when he is creating items himself.

[Ansem]

Wizard is ruled as Wizard spells, hence why there's a specific wizard spell list and not simply a note saying "Pick any spell".

As for Archivist, it's doesn't say any spell. It specifically says Cleric spells.
Also it's not a Cleric itself, so those ACF's won't even work since you're not even playing a Cleric but rather a different class that is just getting spells from the Cleric list.

Archivist gets all Cleric spells in his spellbook/prayerbook for free.
An Archivist can scribe a new spell in his prayerbook the same way a Wizard can do it in his spellbook.
A Wizard can this way learn any spell from a scroll or other caster that's on the Wizard/(Sorcerer) spelllist.
An Archivist can learn 'ANY' divine spell this way.
If you've read the entry of the class, this is not so difficult to understand.

To cite the entry before random people start bitching about it:

Spellcasting: An archivist casts divine spells, drawn primarily from the cleric spell list although he can eventually uncover, learn, and prepare noncleric divine spells spells.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Both StP Erudite and Archivist can learn any spell with Alternative Source Spell. Archivist just needs another caster to supply the spell and can scribe the scrolls himself.
Erudite needs someone to scribe the scroll for him and doesn't get 9th level spells. He also needs to expend XP but can also learn powers and doesn't need material components.

Chameleon can also learn any spell with a little cheese to get to 9th level spells. They can scribe arcane spells from any list in their books and get any divine spell of a level they can cast automatically.

[Gwazi Magnum]

So Archivist is limited to divine spells, Wizard is limited to arcane spells.

I'll probably go with Erudite cause they allow for any spell.
Now it's just an issue and how to deal with the painful XP costs to learn said spells.

Re-read Erudite, it only mentions Discipline powers. Not any power.
Looks like I need to go Mystic Theurge to access multiple spell lists well.
Unless if I went Generic Spellcaster, but then I'm limited on spells known like a Sorcerer is.

[Ansem]

So Archivist is limited to divine spells, Wizard is limited to arcane spells ON THE WIZARD SPELL LIST.


Corrected for you.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Corrected for you.

Oops, that was a derp on my part.
But thanks. Even better highlights that there seems to be no class atm capable of learning spells outside of a certain list/group other than Generic spellcaster.

And I'm only reluctant on that one cause being spontaneous it severally limits my list of usable spells.

[Ruethgar]

Spell to Power Erudite, not a regular Erudite. Regular Erudites are crap versus STP.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Spell to Power Erudite, not a regular Erudite. Regular Erudites are crap versus STP.

That's closer to what I remember reading the first time... :)
And here I was thinking that I must of mis-read it the first time around.

Thanks for this! :)

Also, with this isn't he technically able to cast Arcane spells now?
If so would Arcane Disciple work in teaching him Domain spells also?

[sleepyphoenixx]

If so would Arcane Disciple work in teaching him Domain spells also?

Yes. Also any divine spell of 8th level and below as long as he has someone with Alternative Source spell scribe him a scroll of it.
The same is true for the Archivist. With Alternative Source Spell or a similar ability he can learn any spell in the game.

The StP Erudite doesn't get 9th level spells pre-epic. The Archivist gets all spells but doesn't get powers.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Yes. Also any divine spell of 8th level and below as long as he has someone with Alternative Source spell scribe him a scroll of it.
The same is true for the Archivist. With Alternative Source Spell or a similar ability he can learn any spell in the game.

The StP Erudite doesn't get 9th level spells pre-epic. The Archivist gets all spells but doesn't get powers.

So essentially I get someone else to make scrolls and I get to learn all those spells?
Is there a way to do this without relying on another caster?

Also when you say the spells and not the powers do you mean Psionic powers?
And why does Archivist get up to level 9 spells?

[Chronos]

And why does Archivist get up to level 9 spells?
Because the class says they do? I don't understand the question.

By the rules, archivists can only learn divine spells, and StP erudites can only learn arcane spells. In both cases, you may be able to get access to all spells, through various means of turning a spell of one type into the other. But that's the extent of the similarity of the two classes: They use different mechanics for learning spells, and are subject to different restrictions. In particular, the StP erudite can only learn spells that are lower in level than the highest-level powers they can manifest, and their powers max out at 9th level, so they can only learn spells of at most 8th level.

Also note that if your DM rules out all of the ways of turning arcane spells into divine spells, the wizard can learn more spells total than the archivist: The wizard can only learn spells from their own class list, but that's a very long list, and the various divine spell lists tend to have a lot of overlap between them.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Because the class says they do? I don't understand the question.

By the rules, archivists can only learn divine spells, and StP erudites can only learn arcane spells. In both cases, you may be able to get access to all spells, through various means of turning a spell of one type into the other. But that's the extent of the similarity of the two classes: They use different mechanics for learning spells, and are subject to different restrictions. In particular, the StP erudite can only learn spells that are lower in level than the highest-level powers they can manifest, and their powers max out at 9th level, so they can only learn spells of at most 8th level.

Also note that if your DM rules out all of the ways of turning arcane spells into divine spells, the wizard can learn more spells total than the archivist: The wizard can only learn spells from their own class list, but that's a very long list, and the various divine spell lists tend to have a lot of overlap between them.

No they don't.
They say they learn divine spells up to level 9.

They say nothing about non-divine spells like people here claim that it does.
The only answer I can see if using any spell, but even then it's only up to level 8.

[sleepyphoenixx]

So essentially I get someone else to make scrolls and I get to learn all those spells?
Is there a way to do this without relying on another caster?

Also when you say the spells and not the powers do you mean Psionic powers?
And why does Archivist get up to level 9 spells?

Erudite needs someone to scribe the scrolls for him. The Archivist can take Alternative Source Spell and scribe the scrolls himself as long as he has someone who provides the spell in question.

powers = psionic powers, yes.
The StP Erudite learns spells like discipline powers. The rules for learning those state that you can only learn discipline powers of up to one level lower than the highest you can manifest.
Since there is no psionic heighten you can only learn 8th level discipline powers and spells.

The Archivist learns spells like a wizard, by scribing them into his book. He has no restriction on spell levels he can scribe.
He can scribe any spell he gets a scroll of, no matter the level. He only needs a spellbook with sufficient free pages, some gold and a spellcraft check.



They say nothing about non-divine spells like people here claim that it does.
The only answer I can see if using any spell, but even then it's only up to level 8.

Alternative Source Spell is a metamagic feat that lets you cast any arcane spell as a divine spell. Since you can scribe scrolls with metamagic included you can make a divine scroll of any arcane spell. The Archivist can than learn the spell from that divine scroll.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Erudite needs someone to scribe the scrolls for him. The Archivist can take Alternative Source Spell and scribe the scrolls himself as long as he has someone who provides the spell in question.

powers = psionic powers, yes.
The StP Erudite learns spells like discipline powers. The rules for learning those state that you can only learn discipline powers of up to one level lower than the highest you can manifest.
Since there is no psionic heighten you can only learn 8th level discipline powers and spells.

The Archivist learns spells like a wizard, by scribing them into his book. He has no restriction on spell levels he can scribe.
He can scribe any spell he gets a scroll of, no matter the level. He only needs a spellbook with sufficient free pages, some gold and a spellcraft check.



Alternative Source Spell is a metamagic feat that lets you cast any arcane spell as a divine spell. Since you can scribe scrolls with metamagic included you can make a divine scroll of any arcane spell. The Archivist can than learn the spell from that divine scroll.

I re-read Alternate Source. All it does is change what kind of spell the spells are he's already casting.
So by this I assume when people say the Archivist uses it they actually mean their pal uses it so the Archivist it can read it off the scroll?

Nvm, seems you edited/answered this on right when I clicked quote so it got added on to the post without me noticing.

[Callin]

Another example uses the Divine Spellcaster with scribe scroll. Spellcaster scribes Magic Missile. It is a Divine Scroll. Archivist purchases said scroll and copies it into his Prayer Book. He can now prepare Magic Missile. Do this for pretty much any Sorc/Wiz spell you want. Find Divine Spellcaster with that spell and Scribe Scroll. Its out there somewhere, ya might have to pay a little extra for it but its there.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Another example uses the Divine Spellcaster with scribe scroll. Spellcaster scribes Magic Missile. It is a Divine Scroll. Archivist purchases said scroll and copies it into his Prayer Book. He can now prepare Magic Missile. Do this for pretty much any Sorc/Wiz spell you want. Find Divine Spellcaster with that spell and Scribe Scroll. Its out there somewhere, ya might have to pay a little extra for it but its there.

Is there a system in place that let's me pay NPC's a set amount of gold for this purpose?
If not does the typical spell service casting fee's in the PHB work?

I'm not sure cause this also requires a scroll to be scribed. :/
And I also don't want to task another party member with this, it would be kind of ****ty for them too.

"Hey, can you scroll your spells so I can cast all my spells plus all of yours? Thanks!".

[Callin]

Honestly I would just use the regular price of scrolls and then add half as much again because its not normal. Basically what they say to do when making a non customary custom magic item.

Now that should only go for the nonNative Divine Spells. Cleric, Druid, Ranger, Paladin Scrolls should cost the normal amount.

Divine Bard is also another source of Spells you can copy from. Lots of good Buff and Debuff spells on that list.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Honestly I would just use the regular price of scrolls and then add half as much again because its not normal. Basically what they say to do when making a non customary custom magic item.

Now that should only go for the nonNative Divine Spells. Cleric, Druid, Ranger, Paladin Scrolls should cost the normal amount.

Divine Bard is also another source of Spells you can copy from. Lots of good Buff and Debuff spells on that list.

So basically pay 1.5x gold cost for the scroll and get the spell?
That works for me. :)

I might just focus on a wizard good on gold then though to make it easier.

[Necroticplague]

Just to point out, an archivist cooperating with an arcane caster can get any spell. If they work together to make something, the archivist can be the crafter, with the other just donating the spell-casting every day. The resultant scroll, since it was made by a divine caster (the archivist itself), would be divine. Then, the archivist copies this into his prayerbook.

[Chronos]

That doesn't work. If they both work together, then they're both the crafter, and whichever one contributes the spell is the one that determines whether it's arcane or divine. So an archivist could cooperate with a sorcerer to make a scroll of magic missile, for instance, but it'll be an arcane spell.

On the other hand, cooperating to make scrolls can come in really handy for things like adept spells (which an archivist can learn, as they're divine), because most adepts probably aren't in the scroll-scribing business.

[Ansem]

Can't the Erudite learn spells from a willing source=mind like it can learn powers instead of scrolls?

[boxfox]

Hi. First, there are a lot of nice ideas floating around in this thread already that use actual stuff from books, which is usually preferred.

This will not be one of those posts.

If your DM does not allow homebrew, you can skip this post. If (s)he does, then I have a potential way for you to learn every arcane and divine spell that you want, and have enough spells/day to last all day.

I wanted a Theurge that had 9th lvl arcane and divine casting but wasn't so MAD. Also, I hated using Arcane Hierophant (http://dndtools.eu/classes/arcane-hierophant/). It's flavor was ALL wrong for my character, let alone all of the stupid prerequisites and class abilities that I didn't want. I told my DM about a PrC that I made that basically did exactly what AH did, only with more appropriate flavor, losing all the "nature" crap, and potentially getting entered as early as level 4. He was okay with this...maybe you're DM will be too.

Transcendent Inquisitor
People consider wizards to be hungry for knowledge, but their focus is limited. Those who pray to gods or the forces of nature for power generally accept what they’re given without looking further. There are a rare few who cannot accept the limitations of either.

Those likely to attempt entry into the monastic ranks of the Inquisitors are people who cannot stop trying to learn more magic. They are not satisfied with limiting themselves to divine gifts or the knowledge of the arcane, but seek both. Only true students of magic and knowledge are capable of finding one of the rare inquisitor branches spread throughout the world, and that’s when they find out that they’ve only just begun to learn.

Hit Die: d4.
Requirements
To qualify to become a transcendent inquisitor, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: 6 ranks in at least 6 different Knowledge skills and know at least 10 languages (not including common).
Spells: Able to cast both arcane and divine spells.
Alignment: Any Lawful.
Feat: Endurance.

Class Skills
The Transcendent Inquisitor’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), and Spellcraft (Int). See Chapter 4: Skills for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + INT Modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Transcendent Inquisitor.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Transcendent Inquisitors gain no proficiency with any form of armor or weapon.
Spells per Day: When a new transcendent inquisitor level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus metamagic or item creation feats, bard or assassin abilities, and so on). This essentially means that he adds the level of transcendent inquisitor to the level of any 1 other arcane spellcasting class and any 1 divine spellcasting class the character has, and then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.

For example, a 3rd-level cleric/2nd-level wizard who takes a level in transcendent inquisitor has the same access to spells as a 4th-level cleric and a 3rd-level wizard. But he continues to turn undead as a 3rd-level cleric, and his wizard familiar won’t gain any new abilities.

Book of Heightened Study (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, an inquisitor uses a unique system for recording the details of a spell that drastically reduces the expense of maintaining spellbooks. Every spell he learns from now on requires only a single page in his spellbook. It still takes 24 hours to scribe a spell into a spellbook and materials costing 100 gp per page.

An inquisitor’s spellbook is difficult for non-inquisitors to decipher and use. The Spellcraft DC to decipher or prepare spells from an inquisitor’s spellbook is increased by 5 for non-inquisitors (see page 178 of the Player’s Handbook).

Ravenous Study: At third level, the transcendent inquisitor benefits further from his desire to learn everything. Learning new spells from foreign sources becomes much quicker. A 3rd-level inquisitor only needs to spend 12 hours to scribe a spell into his spellbook. The bonus doubles at level 6, reducing the time to 6 hours of writing. Finally, at 9th level, it takes only 3 hours for a transcendent inquisitor to write a spell into his spellbook.

Studious Insight: At fourth level, the transcendent inquisitor receives a +1 insight bonus to all saving throws, attacks, and AC. Devoting his life to knowledge gives the transcendent inquisitor an understanding of the world’s threats and teaches him how to better deal with them. This bonus increases to +2 at level 7 and +3 at level 10.

Monastic Devotion: Inquisitors don’t spend all day reading books. From now on, in addition to the 2 hours each morning spent preparing or meditating for their spells, inquisitors devote yet another hour to a physical exercise to help them stay in shape. If an inquisitor fails to perform his morning exercise, he spends the entire day feeling out of sorts, taking a -2 penalty to all rolls.

Table 1-1: Transcendent Inquisitor


Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Class Features
Spells per day


1st
1
2
0
0
Monastic Devotion
+1 level existing arcane class/ +1 level existing divine class


2nd
2
3
0
0
Book of Heightened Study
+1 level existing arcane class/ +1 level existing divine class


3rd
3
3
1
1
Ravenous Study (1/2 time)
+1 level existing arcane class/ +1 level existing divine class


4th
4
4
1
1
Studious Insight (+1)
+1 level existing arcane class/ +1 level existing divine class


5th
5
4
2
2
-
+1 level existing arcane class/ +1 level existing divine class


6th
6
5
2
2
Ravenous Study (1/4 time)
+1 level existing arcane class/ +1 level existing divine class


7th
7
5
2
2
Studious Insight (+2)
+1 level existing arcane class/ +1 level existing divine class


8th
8
6
3
3
-
+1 level existing arcane class/ +1 level existing divine class


9th
9
6
3
3
Ravenous Study (1/8 time)
+1 level existing arcane class/ +1 level existing divine class


10th
10
7
3
3
Studious Insight (+3)
+1 level existing arcane class/ +1 level existing divine class




Pretty much everything in the PrC was taken from a different PrC written by WotC, so nothing to flashy, which was the point.

Archivist 2/Wizard 1/T. Inquisitor 5/Mystic Theurge 1. For the next 10 levels, you got T.I., M.T., T.I., M.T., etc. Level 20 is also Theurge. It doesn't have to be this way exactly, but doing it this way with a high Intelligence allows you to end up knowing every language, and having very high knowledge skills. Theurge only has access to Arcana and Religion, so only level those knowledges during Theurge levels, focusing on The Planes, Nature, Dungeoneering, and Local during the Inquisitor levels. You MUST take the Practiced Spellcaster feat twice (once for Archivist and once for Wizard) if you want to cast as a 20th level caster for both Arcane and Divine spells!
You need a pretty high Intelligence to pull it off, which is also one of the points of the PrC...you need to be really damned smart just to figure out the Inquisitors exist.

At any rate, you end with 20th level casting in Arcane and Divine, with the ability to write pretty much any spell in existence into one of your books...and better than anyone else, too.

If you get LA buyoff, roll up a Pixie...you will be the smallest ball of invisible death in existence...

Before anyone asks "why the full attack bonus progression?"...It's because I needed 6BAB by level 8 in order to qualify for Improved Two-weapon fighting by level 9...so that I can retrain Improved Initiative into Multivoice, to allow my 2-headed Illithid character to cast 2 spells every round...
Mind flayers are made by dropping their little tadpoles into the ears of certain races...like elves. Taddols (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/alluria-publishing/taddol) are two headed elves. 2 tadpoles + 1 Taddol = my character, who is extremely fun. Imagination, people...otherwise why play? :smallwink:

[Jeff the Green]

So, as a DM, you would allow this?

Because when I read Artificer, he can only pretend to have spells, he doesn't actually know them. And he can only pretend to have spells when he is creating items himself.

Hell no. I don't usually run games allowing tier 1s to begin with, but if I did they'd probably be restricted to cleric, druid, and shugenja, and ranger and paladin with level adjustments. No divine bard, no prestige classes, no sorcerer/wizard spells from ACFs. Maybe within those restrictions I'd allow them to make use of an artificer, but at that point it's less of an issue.

I'm just talking about what's allowed by RAW. Also, if you're skeptical of an artificer's ability to participate in making a divine spell, just have the artificer make a non-divine spell, then the archivist use that to make his own divine scroll.