Lich question

[kabreras]

Little question about how it might work :

Lets say a lich is trying to hide my phylactery, what if :

1- Put phylactery in a box you made
2- Cast animate object on the box
3- Cast imprisonement on the animated object (it is a construct and so a creature for the spell duration)

Phylactery is hidden from everything expect wish and miracle that can maybe find where it is hidden, but you cant do much against these 2.

Now lets say our poor lich happend to die.

Where does it rebuild itself ?

[Spore]

"Nearby" as in adjacent. It tries to rebuild, get damaged (as in being stuck in earth with an ending earth glide spell) and dies again never to be able to rejuvenate its body.

Or in DM terms: That's what you get for trying to cheese away your phylactery.

[kabreras]

Lets say i make the animated object box large enough to hold the phylactery and a corpse inside.

1 - Does it beeing in stasis is problematic with the rejuvenation process ?
2 - Would i appear in stasis also ?
3 - What if the phylactery is in a bag of holding inside the object would i appear in the bag also and so be able to regrow and cast a spell to go out easy ?

[RedMage125]

Imprisonment is awfully far underground, and kind of SPECIFICALLY nigh-impossible to get out of. If I was your DM, and yo were inside such a box, I would rule that yo, too, were Imprisoned, as per the spell. So unless you've got a spare spellbook in the box, have Spell Mastery for the spell Freedom, or are a Sorcerer, I would advise against that plan of action.

Similar, but easier to work:

1) Cast all your nondetection/anti-scrying spells on the phylactery.
2) Make sure it's strong enough to withstand a lot of pressure (made of/encased in steel, or what have you)
3) Cast Stone to Mud on some rock in an unassuming space*, preferably far from where you intend to hide your lair
4) Sink the phylactery exactly 5 feet down into said mud (via mage hand, or the like).
5) Cast Mud to Stone.
6) (If a wizard, Sorcerers skip directly to step 7)Hide a backup spellbook nearby, and hide it well, just in case**.
7) Profit

*By unassuming I mean somewhere no one else can get to, not even you. Somewhere you need to teleport out of. That way no one can get in unless they already know exactly where they are going...which should be impossible, if you do it right. Like, turn yourself incorporeal and move through stone near the top of a mountain until you find a pocket cave with no exits. Or make one yourself.
**Don't use illusions, high enough spells can see through them. Don't use a secret door, or any kind of compartment that might be considered "unusual stonework". My suggestion: hide it by mundane means, like simply burying it. And move a stone over it. Make sure several such stones are present in the room.

Nothing in the rules says you re-form gradually like Xykon did. By RAW, you just pop back into existence after 1d10 days.

Hmmm...as I write this, I just realized that it no longer says how far away you appear from your phylactery. Could've sworn it was within 6 feet. Meh, anyways, 5 feet works, because of how appearing in occupied spaces works. You will appear in the next most adjacent space (which would be the rock right above it).

Voila! Fool-proof phylactery hiding.

Incidentally, ran an Evil game once, and one player became a lich. Did the Stone to Mud bit, but not in a very safe location (a cellar in a city), and forgot to cast anti-scrying spells. Some heroes came along, destroyed the lich (rest of the evil party scattered). Good guys found the phylactery, and were pissed at this lich (he turned himself into a lich on the altar of a paladin motherhouse, desecrating the temple in the process). So instead of destroying the phylactery, they opened a Gate to the Positive Energy Plane and threw it in.

[Mizr]

I personally like to hide my phylactery in an exceptionally well warded/trapped Leomund's Magic Chest. Put the phylactery in the box, and smash the replica. You die? Reappear on the ethereal plane in your box 1d10 days later, and plane shift back. Non-detection and invisibility are important here, but as the chest is well hidden, there isn't too much risk of it being randomly stumbled upon.

[Melcar]

Well I would do one of two things.

Either I would hide it on my demi plane (created with the spell Genesis)

or

I would place it in an adamantine chest. And place it somewhere deep in the earth.


IIRC only draco liches needs a corps to reform.

[FabulousFizban]

1 place phylactery in lead chest
2 cast permanent invisibility on above chest
3 fling into ethereal plane
4 ?????????
5 profit!

[FabulousFizban]

1 fireproof phylactery
2 fireproof self
3 store in volcano

[FabulousFizban]

1 put phylactery in a bag of holding
2 put bag of holding in a lead chest
3 put chest in orbit around Azathoth

[kabreras]

Imprisonment is awfully far underground, and kind of SPECIFICALLY nigh-impossible to get out of. If I was your DM, and yo were inside such a box, I would rule that yo, too, were Imprisoned, as per the spell.

Also if the philactery is in a havresack ?

The non dimentional space of the havresack is not part of the imprisonement spell for me.

[Svata]

Incidentally, ran an Evil game once, and one player became a lich. Did the Stone to Mud bit, but not in a very safe location (a cellar in a city), and forgot to cast anti-scrying spells. Some heroes came along, destroyed the lich (rest of the evil party scattered). Good guys found the phylactery, and were pissed at this lich (he turned himself into a lich on the altar of a paladin motherhouse, desecrating the temple in the process). So instead of destroying the phylactery, they opened a Gate to the Positive Energy Plane and threw it in.

So the lich reformed 1d10 days later, had a good laugh, and stocked up NI temporary HP?

[Coidzor]

So the lich reformed 1d10 days later, had a good laugh, and stocked up NI temporary HP?

Good times. :smallamused:

[RedMage125]

So the lich reformed 1d10 days later, had a good laugh, and stocked up NI temporary HP?

No, he reformed 1d10 days later, with no spellbook (he was a wizard without Spell Mastery), was destroyed by his environment, wash, rinse, repeat for hundreds of years.

[Rijan_Sai]

No, he reformed 1d10 days later, with no spellbook (he was a wizard without Spell Mastery), was destroyed by his environment, wash, rinse, repeat for hundreds of years.

Please explain this part...undead are immune to effects that require Fort saves that don't affect objects...

*Future plans:
Become lich;
create Demiplane of Major-dominant Positive energy (if Genesis cannot do this, research Epic version);
Build castle in center of Demiplane;
create various Undead for guards;
place phylactery in well guarded/warded chest deep in castle, with all necessary amenities for proper Wizardry;
???;
profit

*Edit: Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType) are not specifically harmed by positive energy...specific kinds of positive energy effects are speciffically harmful to undead.

[Coidzor]

Please explain this part...undead are immune to effects that require Fort saves that don't affect objects...

*Future plans:
Become lich;
create Demiplane of Major-dominant Positive energy (if Genesis cannot do this, research Epic version);
Build castle in center of Demiplane;
create various Undead for guards;
place phylactery in well guarded/warded chest deep in castle, with all necessary amenities for proper Wizardry;
???;
profit

Likely a houserule to fix the bit where while there are portions of the negative energy plane which can destroy undead, they actually *love* being on the positive energy plane by RAW.

[Rijan_Sai]

Likely a houserule to fix the bit where while there are portions of the negative energy plane which can destroy undead, they actually *love* being on the positive energy plane by RAW.

That or a misunderstanding.

I added some relevant information to my original post.