Zombies from the sky!!

[Gamebird]

Yeah, funny topic, but a serious question. I've got this morgh, who has a zombie wyvern to carry him around. As a zombie, the wyvern gets a standard action each round. So it can either fly, or attack, and if it attacks, then it stops flying because it has bad manueverability.

My question is, when it stops flying and falls to the ground, from, say, 5' up, how much damage does it do the poor sap under it that it just attacked?

Let's say the wyvern's rider orders it to land on a particular spot, which happens to include a PC. The wyvern moves there and tries to land, which is a standard action - moving from spot A (flying) to spot B (on the ground). What mechanics do I need to know about to run this? Does the landing do damage to the PC? Does the PC get any checks? Is he (or the wyvern) prone as a result of forcibly sharing space?

[Collin152]

I think there are rules somewher e ofr when something falls on you... lemme check on that...
Of course, if it's just senility setting in and there ARE no such rules, then just do the falling damage to both of them. Which means that from 5', no damage for you!

[oriong]

Technically speaking the 'landing attempt' would be moving into someone else's square: therefore it isn't possible unless they're helpless.

The exceptions are an overrun attempt, a tumbling attempt, and attempting to bull rush or grapple someone.

The 'landing' sounds like it would be a bull rush of a sorts, but that's not possible unless the wyvern charges because of his 'standard or move action' limitation.

Falling into a square might be treated similar to an Overrun (simply allowing a PC to get out of the way and 'surrender' the square). Technically no matter how heavy it is it won't inflict damage unless it's fallen more than 10 feet or has some special attack ability.

[Gamebird]

Hm... that defies sense. Of course, a lot of rules do. Anyone have any other interpretations?

[Collin152]

Maybe work around the limitations and make yourself a Wyvern-Vampire? Not only will It swoop upon your foes, but it'll do something to it whilst holding it down! Constitution Damage ftw!

[Rigeld2]

Hm... that defies sense. Of course, a lot of rules do. Anyone have any other interpretations?
If its only 5' off the ground, its not even above the head of most Medium creatures. Easy as heck to take a step out of the way after it stops flapping.
(edit: Surrender the square when it Overruns)

[Jack Mann]

"I don't think we're in a Newtonian model of physics anymore, Toto."

[AtomicKitKat]

Look for the Crush description in the Dragons entry, and scale to the Wyvern's size. Since a Wyvern is Large, it cannot actually Crush, but using similar rules, it can "grapple to pin" for 2d6 damage a round. Good luck with that.

I believe zombies are allowed to charge. This lets them move and attack in the same round. In other words, they're easier to hit, but they at least get to smack you one time before you walk away slowly. :P

[Rigeld2]

I believe zombies are allowed to charge. This lets them move and attack in the same round. In other words, they're easier to hit, but they at least get to smack you one time before you walk away slowly. :P

If you are able to take only a standard action (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions) or a move action (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#moveActions) on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.
Partial Charge 4tw.

[Saph]

You could use the Crush rules from the dragon entry in the MM, but since Wyverns are only Large, it doesn't really work.

Eh, forget it. Just have it push the PC 5' out of the way. Otherwise you'd have to work out how much damage the PC took from the impact, and how much damage the Wyvern took from landing on several sharp weapons with all its body weight behind it. Too much effort.

- Saph

[Gamebird]

Eh, just seems odd that the wyvern can fly to 10' above the PCs (round 1), make an attack (round 2) and fall... but somehow not fall on anything because there's a PC under it.

Yeah, I think I'll reverse-engineer the crush rules.

[its_all_ogre]

give player attack of opportunity and let him/her move away too.
its a zombie after all.
or let them try to stay there and grapple a wyvern, giving it normal grapple odds, i would also give it a +4 for flying or some other reason, what sane pc would try to wrestle a wyvern? i mean i know mechanically loads of characters can, like many real life wrestlers could probably wrestle a bull, but why would you?

[Twisted.Fate]

You could always make it a fast zombie via Libris Mortis, and skip this whole falling/crushing issue. Fast zombies get a standard and a move action as normal, plus they (duh) move faster. Best of all, it's only a +1/2 CR.

[Gamebird]

Yeah, but I'm using core stuff. Hm... maybe I'll just have the BBEG feed the zombie wyvern a potion of Haste and skip all the arguments about it.

But I'm still bothered that the rules for manueverability say that if you don't keep flying at a certain rate, you fall - then don't give any rules for what happens when you fall on someone (other than the generic falling-object rules).

[Saph]

But I'm still bothered that the rules for manueverability say that if you don't keep flying at a certain rate, you fall - then don't give any rules for what happens when you fall on someone (other than the generic falling-object rules).

Make it an unarmed attack? 1d8+Str damage, or something.

They probably thought about it, then realised that as soon as they made 'falling on someone' an attack, every PC under the sun would come up with attack routines that boiled down to getting 200' directly over the BBEG and dropping.

- Saph

[Jack Mann]

Haste won't help you. It doesn't give extra actions anymore, unless you're still playing 3.0

[Gamebird]

I thought it gave you an extra move action, or... no, wait, it just increases your move, doesn't it? Eck.

[Gamebird]

Just a note:

By the falling damage rules, it would seem that since the wyvern is falling 10', it would take 1d6 damage. However, since a wyvern usually weighs 2,000 pounds, it would inflict 10d6 on anything it fell on. Since a wyvern zombie only does 2d6+7 on a successful hit, it would seem that having the critter fall repeatedly on the PCs would be the optimal solution.

Surely this is incorrect though.

[oriong]

This seems to be true...disturbingly enough there are no actual mechanics for avoiding a falling object. Apparently they all auto-hit : /

[Matthew]

I would imagine the mechanic works the same as avoiding damage from an overhead trap.

[Collin152]

Or a reflex save based on the Faler-s Karma mdifier (Which, in this case, sucks, as the dead get no karma)






Yeah, Karma modfiers don't exist, so use dex modifiers.