So I'm a Cleric And My Ally Was Turned Into a Ghost

[DrakePenn]

Now, he's not evil, or trying to kill us. He's just making my job EXTREMELY DIFFICULT. We've been fighting a lot of undead lately, and normally I can turn thing 5 cr higher than us, no problem. BUT. My old ally is the players new characters cohort, and with his level adjustment... If I turn near him, he's instantly destroyed. How can I protect him from my turning? If I accidentally kill him, I lose a few of my exalted feats, so I need to be suuuuuper careful. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[OldTrees1]

What level are you? With enough wealth you could start buying +Turn Resistance for your ally.

Turning has a maximum radius, you could have your ghost flank the enemy from a distance.

Did you know there is an undead only feat called Lifebond. As long as you are within 30ft? of the Ghost, it gets +Turn Resistance.

Did you know Ghost is a Savage Progressions class? Your Ghost friend did not need to take all 5 LA at once, in a row, or ever.

[Techwarrior]

There's a feat (I think from Libris Mortis) called Improved Turn Resistance that grants +4 effective levels vs Turn/Rebuke attempts.

Other possible solutions include being farther away form other targets, since you turn the closest first. He could also do his best to have Total Cover or Concealment from you at all times. (While not manifesting he has this from being Ethereal)

[Fitz10019]

I think a ghost should be able to ethereal it's way underground or into walls to break line of effect. What has the ghost been doing during combat?

Also consider that complicating your TU ability may be exactly what the DM wanted. Maybe he/she feels you've been cake-walking the adventure, and created the situation as a disincentive for your use of/reliance on TU.

[DrakePenn]

I think a ghost should be able to ethereal it's way underground or into walls to break line of effect. What has the ghost been doing during combat?

Also consider that complicating your TU ability may be exactly what the DM wanted. Maybe he/she feels you've been cake-walking the adventure, and created the situation as a disincentive for your use of/reliance on TU.

It actually seems like him to do that, he also keeps sending morally questionable encounters, to get my chaotic good cleric into arguments with our lawful neutral wizard.
As for our ghost, he's been fighting with his previous style, leap attack halberd. That player is not too smart, which is why I need suggestions. He just refuses to use his etherealness effectively.

[DrakePenn]

What level are you? With enough wealth you could start buying +Turn Resistance for your ally.

Turning has a maximum radius, you could have your ghost flank the enemy from a distance.

Did you know there is an undead only feat called Lifebond. As long as you are within 30ft? of the Ghost, it gets +Turn Resistance.

Did you know Ghost is a Savage Progressions class? Your Ghost friend did not need to take all 5 LA at once, in a row, or ever.

Well, we use the level check variant rule, and said ghost has less than half my levels... So resistance doesn't protect him, he's instantly destroyed.

[Spore]

It actually seems like him to do that, he also keeps sending morally questionable encounters, to get my chaotic good cleric into arguments with our lawful neutral wizard.
As for our ghost, he's been fighting with his previous style, leap attack halberd. That player is not too smart, which is why I need suggestions. He just refuses to use his etherealness effectively.

Blasted DM, always trying to make the game interesting and stuff.

[drack]

Blasted DM, always trying to make the game interesting and stuff.
quite

Anywho this, all this: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x

[OldTrees1]

Well, we use the level check variant rule, and said ghost has less than half my levels... So resistance doesn't protect him, he's instantly destroyed.

Wait, "if their level is half your level" or "if their effective turning level (HD+Turn Resistance) is half your level"?

RAW always uses effective turning level.

[KillianHawkeye]

Turning resistance is indeed still very helpful.

A turning check is a level check to which the character also adds his Charisma modifier. (Use the character's effective turning level, which is equal to class level for a cleric or class level -3 for a paladin.) The DC is 10 + the creature's Hit Dice + its turn resistance (if any) + its Charisma modifier. (To speed play, the game master can add a "Turn DC" score to the statistics block of each undead creature.)

If you use this variant, some creatures' turn resistance should be increased to keep them from being too easy to turn. Any creature with turn resistance of +4 or higher should gain an additional +2 to its turn resistance. Creatures with turn resistance of +3 or lower need no change.

1d20 + Cleric lvl + Cha versus the target's HD + Cha + turn resistance + 10

A ghost normally has +4 turn resistance, which should be increased to +6 according to the rules of the variant. Taking the Improved Turn Resistance feat would get him up to +10 and make him nigh un-turnable. Also note that the ghost template adds 4 to the character's Charisma score.



EDIT: Hey, wait. We're talking about a ghost here. Even if you DID destroy it, it'll just come back in 2d4 days. :smallsigh:

[TuggyNE]

Well, we use the level check variant rule, and said ghost has less than half my levels... So resistance doesn't protect him, he's instantly destroyed.

By strictly dysfunctional RAW in the variant, that might be true. However, such RAW is arrant nonsense and should be disregarded with extreme prejudice; turn resistance is intended to modify HD in all uses of turning, period, end of story.

[KillianHawkeye]

turn resistance is intended to modify HD in all uses of turning, period, end of story.

This interpretation is also born out in the example of using the level check mechanics. A ghoul with 2 HD and +2 turn resistance eats up 4 HD worth of turning.

[drack]

By strictly dysfunctional RAW in the variant, that might be true. However, such RAW is arrant nonsense and should be disregarded with extreme prejudice; turn resistance is intended to modify HD in all uses of turning, period, end of story.

How they use it is how they use it, and demanding that they're wrong may not fix this...

[KillianHawkeye]

How they use it is how they use it, and demanding that they're wrong may not fix this...

BUT perhaps they are just making a simple mistake and letting them know about it will completely solve their problem? It couldn't hurt to try.

[drack]

More in reference to the definitive nature of the statement then the content. "turn resistance is intended to modify HD in all uses of turning, period, end of story." =p

[KillianHawkeye]

Maybe we should be more concerned with what people are saying rather than the WAY they are saying it? I don't think that's helpful for anyone. :smallconfused:

[drack]

So then are you disagreeing with the way that I'm saying it, calling him out on it, or with what I'm saying, that if his GM wants it one way that's the way it'll go? =\ I mean it'd be hypocritical if you were to call me out for calling someone out for the same sort of thing no?

[KillianHawkeye]

No, I am saying you are being unhelpful by missing the point. And we are getting a little bit off topic now.

We do not know that the DM "wants it" a certain way. All we know is how they have been reading the rules (or at least how the OP read them), and myself and others have provided an alternate viewpoint which would solve the problem (i.e., the proper application of turn resistance). We do not know that the DM has even considered this alternative, much less rejected it.

If you have anything else to say, let it be about the OP's problem and not any more of this meaningless back and forth, or else send me a private message if you want to argue.

[drack]

Indeed, which is why it seems you're replying to how I said it, just as I was the way he said it. :smallcool:

And yes this is somewhat off topic.

[TuggyNE]

More in reference to the definitive nature of the statement then the content. "turn resistance is intended to modify HD in all uses of turning, period, end of story." =p

If you're thinking of the rules, I call rule mistakes like I see them, and this is one of them. I have no shame in finding absurd and dysfunctional inconsistencies in RAW and then fixing them promptly and thoroughly.

If you're thinking of the group, well, I don't know why they're going by that particular rule, but if it's a simple mistake or a lack of thought, then hopefully pointing out why the rules should not work that way is enough to convince them; I am not aware of any sufficient reason to ignore turn resistance in that edge case.

There are many situations where a case could be made for either side of common sense to govern a rule or houserule, but this does not seem to be one of them.

[drack]

Yup, I'd agree. Just adding the amendment of the first rule to the absolutist statement in case it weren't perceived there. =p

[Story]

I can't imagine why they would ignore turn resistance. It's such a common ability among undead that they have to be aware of it.

[TuggyNE]

I can't imagine why they would ignore turn resistance. It's such a common ability among undead that they have to be aware of it.

To be fair, the variant rules are a little wonky in one particular place.
If the creature has Hit Dice equal to one-half the character's effective cleric level or less, the turning attempt automatically succeeds, and he does not have to make a check (the creature's Hit Dice still count against the maximum). Furthermore, such undead are automatically destroyed (if the character channels positive energy) or commanded (if he channels negative energy).

And in some other places in the same variant it goes out of its way to include Hit Dice + turn resistance, so it's clear that the writers did think about it a little.

[Fitz10019]

I can't imagine why they would ignore turn resistance...

Because it's a DMPC, and the DM may want the cleric to have this dilemma / hindrance.

[KillianHawkeye]

Here, I found the definition of turn resistance on the SRD:

Some creatures (usually undead) are less easily affected by the turning ability of clerics or paladins.

Turn resistance is an extraordinary ability.

When resolving a turn, rebuke, command, or bolster attempt, added the appropriate bonus to the creature’s Hit Dice total.

Based on this, I don't think the rules NEED to state every time that turn resistance should be added to HD, because that is simply what turn resistance IS. Note that it doesn't say that turn resistance is only for checking if the cleric is strong enough to affect the creature, it says that it is added to the creature's HD when resolving the entire turn attempt. Effectively, that creature basically gains those Hit Dice from the beginning until the end of any attempts to turn undead.