Wizard multiclass.

[Yael]

I am playing in a campaign where no magazines are allowed and only some 3.0 material is allowed, we are playing 3.5.

I choose the wizard, I specialized in conjuration and I've been doing a good job. We are about to reach level 4th and I though about expanding my knowledge beyond the arcane, casting divine. I though about Cleric, but because of the ability scores, not that possible, however I remembered Archivist, which is a very powerful class by itself. Also it brings a prayerbook (similar to the spellbook) and can learn almost every (if not all) divine spell on the game.

I though about having 3 levels on Conjurer, then taking 3 levels on Archivist and entering Mystic Theurge, then using Arcanist (Ultimate Prestige Classes - Volume I, p56) to finish with 9th level spells on both sides (taking Practiced Spellcaster at least once to keep up the caster level though.)

Is it a good decision? I mean, both classes cast with Int, and even though Archivist's extra spells depend on Wis, I could take a +6 Enhancement bonus item because of my 13 score on Wisdom. Could it happen?

Does this work?

Some advice on Archivist?

[eggynack]

It is what all unspeedy theurge builds are. That is, it is worse. You would, by most metrics, have a significantly more powerful character if you just kept wizarding about, especially if you take a prestige class with actual class features. That is even true by the metric of spell-type versatility, as just having access to a higher level of spells increases how many different types of spells you can cast to a massive degree.

You can do this if you'd like. You can even do this and remain viable in the vast majority of games. You are still, at the very least, a wizard that's behind by three spell levels, and that's a strong character in its own right. However, you asked if this is a good decision, and I am not you, so I can only answer within the context of optimization. And in that context, this is not a good decision. It becomes a better decision if you're pulling early entry tricks, but even then there's a high probability that a straight wizard, or wizard/PrC, would be better.

[VoxRationis]

Assuming your DM disagrees with my opinions about the in-universe viability of classes whose main feature is to anger all the gods at once, you could go into ur-priest to slam out those divine spellcasting requirements as quickly as possible before going into mystic theurge.

[Andezzar]

Rainbow Servant 10 lets the wizard cast all cleric spells.

[Techwarrior]

Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment) is thematically appropriate, and could be retrained into a feat slot. It can be used similar to Precocious Apprentice to qualify for divine spellcasting, since it lets you cast a Domain spell. You have to get your Wisdom up to 12 to be able to qualify for Mystic Theurge with it though.

[Yael]

Assuming your DM disagrees with my opinions about the in-universe viability of classes whose main feature is to anger all the gods at once, you could go into ur-priest to slam out those divine spellcasting requirements as quickly as possible before going into mystic theurge.

Isn't Ur-Priest a bit late? I mean, For +3 for a Wizard comes in at level 9th, would that mean to take 1 Ur-Priest and the rest of Mystic Theurge? I guess I'm not missing anything because of the entry requs.


You can do this if you'd like. You can even do this and remain viable in the vast majority of games. You are still, at the very least, a wizard that's behind by three spell levels, and that's a strong character in its own right. However, you asked if this is a good decision, and I am not you, so I can only answer within the context of optimization. And in that context, this is not a good decision. It becomes a better decision if you're pulling early entry tricks, but even then there's a high probability that a straight wizard, or wizard/PrC, would be better.

Thank you, will consider this.

[VoxRationis]

A wizard gets +3 BAB at level 6.

[Andezzar]

A wizard gets +3 BAB at level 6.It's not the BAB. Ur-Priest has no BAB requirements. The +3 base FORT save is the problem. A wizard only gets that at level 9.

[Chronos]

Also make sure that that "Ultimate Prestige Classes" book is OK. Your DM might not allow homebrew, especially since most homebrew is worse-balanced than magazine material.

[VoxRationis]

Oh. Got it.
If you went into Ur-Priest at 10th and 11th level and then did Mystic Theurge for 12th-20th, you could get level 9 cleric and wizard spells (wizard CL=18, Ur-Priest level=11), though I admit the start is a little late.
The thing is that although you suffer a delay in your spellcasting by going for mystic theurge, you end up with a whole other spell list to throw at things. For me the increased endurance and versatility that provides makes up for a slightly lessened ability to kill things by looking at them.

[Rebel7284]

If you for some reason did not ban enchantment, Wizard 5/Mindbender 1/Ur Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8

I am sure there are other classes with strong fort save that progress casting.

[Urpriest]

If you for some reason did not ban enchantment, Wizard 5/Mindbender 1/Ur Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8

I am sure there are other classes with strong fort save that progress casting.

IIRC Blood Magus also works.

Anyway, it's a lot easier and more powerful for a Wizard to pick up a few interesting spells from other classes than to go the whole hog and multiclass, slowing down their own progression.

What, in particular, do you want out of divine casting? What types of spells do you want to cast that the enormous Wizard list isn't giving to you?

[Andezzar]

If you did, just substitute the Mindebender level with a binder level.

[Urpriest]

If you did, just substitute the Mindebender level with a binder level.

The point is to find something that progresses casting, so that doesn't really help with anything.

Anyway, OP, if your goal is just to incorporate divine flavor, the Divine Oracle and Dweomerkeeper prestige classes are both better choices than Mystic Theurge.

[Andezzar]

The point is to find something that progresses casting, so that doesn't really help with anything.Wizard and Ur-Priest already provide arcane and divine casting. Mindbender only adds one arcane spellcasting level and telepathy.

Wizard 4/Binder 1/Ur-priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Wizard (or full casting PrC) 5 gives you both arcane and divine 9th level spells.

[John Longarrow]

Wizard 5 / Mind Bender 1 / Ur Priest 2 / Mystic Theurge 10 / ANY Wizard pClass / 2 gives you all your 9ths plus a CL of 18 wizard and 21 Divine (Funky +1/2 all other spell casters added to caster level for Ur Priest).

[dextercorvia]

Wizard 4/Binder 1/Ur-priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Wizard (or full casting PrC) 5 gives you both arcane and divine 9th level spells.

Yes, but those are 3 lost Wizard level in a row at low/mid levels. You will feel that drop for quite a while.

May I suggest Wizard 5 (with the Domain Granted Power ACF from CC) into Divine Oracle. Later you can pick up a level of Sacred Exorcist for Turn Undead, if that seems useful to you.

From the Domain Granted Power ACF:


Special: If you take levels in a class that grants you a domain choice (such as cleric), you gain the full benefits of the domain in addition to the other domains available to you from that class.

That's right. Once you go Divine Oracle, you get the full domain for whichever one you chose for your ACF.

[Chronos]

For divine flavor and a smattering of spells, you could also take the Arcane Disciple feat, which would let you cast the spells from a single domain.