Thought Experiment: WIZARDS IN SPACE!!!

[Darkweave31]

So a bit of a fun concept that I came up with, I'm trying to think of ways a wizard could build his flying castle in a way that would make space travel possible. Figured I'd open it up and get some ideas from the boards.

I'm trying to base it on the rules from the stronghold builder's guide as much as possible, but of course some creativity will be necessary.

So what do you guys think? How would you travel the cosmos in style?

[Flickerdart]

A Magnificent Mansion has its own atmosphere. Get a tiny box that has exactly enough life support for the 6 seconds every two days it takes to cast an extended version (a bottle of air will suffice), strap as many engines as you can to it, and go to town.

[Darkweave31]

Shall I paint it blue for the obligatory bigger on the inside joke? :smallbiggrin:

That is an interesting idea though... hadn't really thought about magnificent mansion.

What to use for engines though... the 10 mph speed from the stronghold builder seems a bit too slow to escape the planet's gravitational pull let alone see the stars...

[unseenmage]

Shall I paint it blue for the obligatory bigger on the inside joke? :smallbiggrin:

That is an interesting idea though... hadn't really thought about magnificent mansion.

What to use for engines though... the 10 mph speed from the stronghold builder seems a bit too slow to escape the planet's gravitational pull let alone see the stars...

Spell Compendium has the spell Launch Item. Get yourself a magic item of unlimited Launch Item and bang-zoom straight to the moon.

[Flickerdart]

Shall I paint it blue for the obligatory bigger on the inside joke? :smallbiggrin:

That is an interesting idea though... hadn't really thought about magnificent mansion.

What to use for engines though... the 10 mph speed from the stronghold builder seems a bit too slow to escape the planet's gravitational pull let alone see the stars...
Find a creature with Distance Shot that is strong enough to chuck your ship, and tell it to aim at the nearest celestial body.

[Cirrylius]

Find a creature with Distance Shot that is strong enough to chuck your ship, and tell it to aim at the nearest celestial body.

Hulking Hurler Cohort tied to your castle with a rope?

[Ravens_cry]

Well, what you do is arrange a bunch of walls of flame like a giant asterisk, *, though with more branches if you can, in a very sturdy container that won't melt with a cone shaped nozzle at one end. Then direct the stream from multiple decanters of water into the exact crossing centre of the walls of fire. Boom, you got yourself a steam rocket with indefinite delta-v and probably pretty damn good thrust too if the heat at the centre of the asterisk is hot enough and the flow of water from the decanters is fast enough.

[Flame of Anor]

Well, what you do is arrange a bunch of walls of flame like a giant asterisk, *, though with more branches if you can, in a very sturdy container that won't melt with a cone shaped nozzle at one end. Then direct the stream from multiple decanters of water into the exact crossing centre of the steam. Boom, you got yourself a steam rocket with indefinite delta-v and probably pretty damn good thrust too if the heat at the centre of the asterisk is hot enough and the flow of water from the decanters is fast enough.

Please, think of the poor catgirls!

[Ravens_cry]

Please, think of the poor catgirls!
Oh, I think of them. *grin* I think of them every day.:smallamused:
You can use more decanters as reaction thrusters for manoeuvring once in space.

[Flickerdart]

Well, what you do is arrange a bunch of walls of flame like a giant asterisk, *, though with more branches if you can, in a very sturdy container that won't melt with a cone shaped nozzle at one end. Then direct the stream from multiple decanters of water into the exact crossing centre of the walls of fire. Boom, you got yourself a steam rocket with indefinite delta-v and probably pretty damn good thrust too if the heat at the centre of the asterisk is hot enough and the flow of water from the decanters is fast enough.
The heat and geyser flow are both so miserable that this contraption wouldn't be able to carry its own weight.

[Ravens_cry]

The heat and geyser flow are both so miserable that this contraption wouldn't be able to carry its own weight.
Would it? We're basically talking about a thermal nuclear rocket, but without the need for all the shielding, propellant and nuclear fuel, just a Fyrite chamber,nozzle and the decanters. I'll have to find it again, but I believe the temperature of a wall of flame was calculated as quite intense, more than enough for these purposes.

[TuggyNE]

The heat and geyser flow are both so miserable that this contraption wouldn't be able to carry its own weight.

If you can get it into orbit in some fashion, even a very low thrust is enough to do quite a lot (c.f. ion engines).

[Eldan]

Teleport should be able to get you into orbit.

[sleepyphoenixx]

If you can get it into orbit in some fashion, even a very low thrust is enough to do quite a lot (c.f. ion engines).

Strongsholds can be fitted with the capability to use Greater Teleport, so getting into orbit shouldn't be a problem.
The various augmentations also provide a sealed environment with constant fresh air, temperature control, food and waste disposal. Walls of Force take care of space debris and should also protect from radiation.

The flying augmentation alone keeps the stronghold at a fixed height (presumably in relation to the surface of earth), taking care of orbital decay.
So if you don't need a geostationary orbit all you have to do is build your stronghold and teleport it into orbit.

Geostationary orbit is a lot harder to achieve, from getting the necessary propulsion to solving the calculations necessary without computers. But that's what you have superhuman intelligence for.

[Pilo]

Steal a helm (as in SpellJammer helms) from second edition.

You can also imprison a few elder air elemental in a place inside your castle, give them magic item of strength and ask them to lift your new vessel on demand.

[Eldan]

Walls of Force take care of space debris and should also protect from radiation.

They might not, since they are translucent. But then, I'm not sure if D&D ever had radition rules. They could probably be borrowed from d20 modern, though.

[sleepyphoenixx]

They might not, since they are translucent. But then, I'm not sure if D&D ever had radition rules. They could probably be borrowed from d20 modern, though.

I don't think there are official radiation rules. If Wall of Force doesn't block it and you can't research a version that does for whatever reason you can also make layered walls lined with lead. Since you can make those transparent as well it doesn't really matter all that much in the long run.

You'll just have to do your research first, like getting a single-room stronghold into space with a few rats in it to observe the effects.
Or you could just use divination to find out if Wall of Force offers sufficient protection.

[unseenmage]

I think there's an epic spell that describes the conditions of space as causing some amount of damage. As that's the only RAW for it Wall of Force should suffice and might not even be necessary with properly Hardened walls.

[Inevitability]

I think there's an epic spell that describes the conditions of space as causing some amount of damage. As that's the only RAW for it Wall of Force should suffice and might not even be necessary with properly Hardened walls.

Nailed to the Sky (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/nailedToTheSky.htm)

[Darkweave31]

I don't think there are official radiation rules. If Wall of Force doesn't block it and you can't research a version that does for whatever reason you can also make layered walls lined with lead. Since you can make those transparent as well it doesn't really matter all that much in the long run.

You'll just have to do your research first, like getting a single-room stronghold into space with a few rats in it to observe the effects.
Or you could just use divination to find out if Wall of Force offers sufficient protection.

And thus begins the House Cannith space program :smallbiggrin:

That is a good point about layering the walls with lead to try and prevent radiation in case the force walls aren't enough.

I had an idea that in the case I needed to make exterior repairs I could have a small area that is closed off from the outside by a prismatic wall to keep the air in (yellow layer stops gasses). Then send out golem repair crews since they are immune to the effects of the wall, perhaps awakened so that they can be intelligent enough to do so.

[Big Mac]

Steal a helm (as in SpellJammer helms) from second edition.

Andy Collins did a 3rd Edition mini-conversion of Spelljammer called Spelljammer: Shadow of the Spider Moon, so this can be done with 3rd Edition rules.

Back to 2nd Edition Spelljammer, that has a ship called a "Flying Pyramid" which is literally a pyramid with a spelljamming helm fitted into it. So a wizard installing a spelljamming helm into a small enough castle should work OK.

Spelljammer is canon (although not used much) in both 3rd and 4th Edition D&D, so you don't have to worry about air loss - the air would stay inside the air envelope generated by the castle. Your biggest concerns would be keeping the air fresh.

[Piggy Knowles]

Rather than trying to muck about with getting air in your castle, wouldn't it be easier to make breathing unnecessary?

[Darkweave31]

Andy Collins did a 3rd Edition mini-conversion of Spelljammer called Spelljammer: Shadow of the Spider Moon, so this can be done with 3rd Edition rules.

Back to 2nd Edition Spelljammer, that has a ship called a "Flying Pyramid" which is literally a pyramid with a spelljamming helm fitted into it. So a wizard installing a spelljamming helm into a small enough castle should work OK.

Spelljammer is canon (although not used much) in both 3rd and 4th Edition D&D, so you don't have to worry about air loss - the air would stay inside the air envelope generated by the castle. Your biggest concerns would be keeping the air fresh.

I actually ended up finding those online. Unfortunately I was planning on something a bit bigger than 700 tons, practicality be damned. I'm an epic wizard, what's power without flair!

So my epic wizard (with the obligatory solar simulacrum army) built a huge castle surrounded by a force dome, all airtight, using the chamber of comfort wondrous architecture for maintaining fresh air and atmosphere within the castle. Then I keyed a mythal to the castle with a prevalent planar bubble effect (among other things) to mimic the gravity and atmosphere of the planet.

I did end up using the spelljammer helms for smaller, short-ranged ships to be piloted by the simulacra. These ships are obdurium hull with a force wall layer and prismatic screen to allow them to simply cut through other ships that are not similarly protected. Chamber of comfort wondrous architecture for life support. With caster level 20 they can hit mach 1 easily with a minor helm. I'd never give up my casting for 24 hours to pilot one though... the horror. I'd be... normal :smalleek:

[Gildedragon]

Repairs can be dealt with by traps of make whole, livewood, living metal, aurorum or obviated by riverine.

Blast off by nailing the ship to the sky

[Gildedragon]

Quick note: there are rules for radiation in FR faeress, faress, something by that name anyway

[unseenmage]

Quick note: there are rules for radiation in FR faeress, faress, something by that name anyway

It's Faerzness I bekieve, and is in the Underdark book IIRC.

[Hamste]

If you need to recast spells on your ship you can always use deep breath to keep yourself from suffocating. The damage from a vacuum is almost nothing, apparently. Not sure if fire and cold resistance helps with the damage from "heat or cold". It should but it never actually said that it was fire damage or cold damage. If it doesn't you may need to bring a cleric or someone to cast healing spells every time you go out. If radiation is considered to be a problem you could always make the box out of magically treated lead (treated to be resistant to heat and to harden it).

[Ravens_cry]

If you need to recast spells on your ship you can always use deep breath to keep yourself from suffocating. The damage from a vacuum is almost nothing, apparently. Not sure if fire and cold resistance helps with the damage from "heat or cold". It should but it never actually said that it was fire damage or cold damage. If it doesn't you may need to bring a cleric or someone to cast healing spells every time you go out. If radiation is considered to be a problem you could always make the box out of magically treated lead (treated to be resistant to heat and to harden it).
Depends on the radiation type, lead might make things worse. One (long) word: bremsstrahlung.

[Gildedragon]

Wall of force, lead, wall of force... So riverine with lead instead of high pressure water.
Also isn't heavy water rather good at radiation catching? Cause if so heavy water riverine!

[Kazudo]

Shall I paint it blue for the obligatory bigger on the inside joke?

No. Paint it red. It makes it go faster. Orks can verify this fact.

...Yes, I came into the thread specifically for that.

But how rules-heavy are we talking? Real space? Because real space feels like it would work differently than D&D space because magic. Hmm.

[Darkweave31]

Wall of force, lead, wall of force... So riverine with lead instead of high pressure water.
Also isn't heavy water rather good at radiation catching? Cause if so heavy water riverine!

Actually after looking into it riverine would probably be the most efficient way to deal with radiation since I believe long term manned missions use water of a sort as well.

Divination spells are being used right now to confirm... :smallcool:

[Gildedragon]

So reading up on stuff:
The wall of force would be enough to stop all particle radiation.
Some electromagnetic radiation can bypass it, as gaze attacks go through and the wall is probably massless.
For shielding one probably wants the densest material available. Probably Adamantine or Obdurium...
though there is a lighter option: Blacksand as, per its description, it "literally swallows light"
No matter how energetic, these photons will be absorbed.

[Renen]

Have your castle be a giant construct. Cast fly on it. Done!

[TuggyNE]

Wall of force, lead, wall of force... So riverine with lead instead of high pressure water.
Also isn't heavy water rather good at radiation catching? Cause if so heavy water riverine!

Heavy water is only slightly better than normal water, so it's not worth the effort of collecting it. There's a reason reactor pools are filled with water: it's cheap and it works.

[holywhippet]

I'm not actually certain if this would even be possible by fluff. My impression was that the magical weave which allows arcane magic to function is tied to the planet itself. Going into space would put you out of range of it. The forgotten realms for example is supposed to have had all spells over level 10 prohibited by the Goddess of magic after some wizards got out hand. On the other hand there is Spelljammer where you can fly between worlds and still use magic.

Still, I'm not sure of the point of a wizard having a space ship unless they have a way to travel faster than light or teleport between worlds.

[Flickerdart]

I'm not actually certain if this would even be possible by fluff. My impression was that the magical weave which allows arcane magic to function is tied to the planet itself.
If you can travel to another plane of existence and still use magic, I think that leaving a lousy planet shouldn't be much of an issue.

[Darkweave31]

Still, I'm not sure of the point of a wizard having a space ship unless they have a way to travel faster than light or teleport between worlds.

The point?
Because it's cool.
Because I can.
Because I'm tired of light pollution and just want to stargaze.
Because space.
Because most epic castle ever.
Because demiplanes are too mainstream.
Because now when I say "I don't want to live on this planet anymore" I have a viable alternative.
(and because a stronghold can easily be made to greater teleport, plane shift, and fly)

Honestly when is there not a point in going into space

[TuggyNE]

I'm not actually certain if this would even be possible by fluff. My impression was that the magical weave which allows arcane magic to function is tied to the planet itself. Going into space would put you out of range of it. The forgotten realms for example is supposed to have had all spells over level 10 prohibited by the Goddess of magic after some wizards got out hand. On the other hand there is Spelljammer where you can fly between worlds and still use magic.

As far as I know, that's only really FR that has anything like that scheme. Elsewhere it just sort of works, so you could argue that FR has some weird Crystal Sphere-wide phenomenon that necessitates the continuous intervention of a deity of magic to function smoothly.