Disney release first star wars clip

[pendell]

At Wondercon (http://www.realcleartechnology.com/video/2014/04/21/first_clip_from_disneys_star_wars_rebels.html) 54 seconds.

...

Initial reactions?

I'll put mine in spoilers, so as not to impact anyone else's.


Seems too pixarish to me, as if we were filming Toy Story INN SPACEEE!

"If all you fight for is your own life, your life is worth nothing?"

What the heck kind of tag line is THAT?

I am of the opinion that every individual sapient life has value and is worth fighting for. YES, unselfishness is good, but *worth nothing?* Are humans some kind of collective ant colony, in which the individual workers are disposable units? I THINK NOT.

That tag line sounds something like that would be spouted by an Imperial stormtrooper, devoid of individual identity and referred to by number rather than name. The Empire emphasizes the sacrifice of individuality by the masses for the benefit of the Emperor -- the Rebellion emphasizes the dignity and heroism of the individual. The Rebellion would NOT destroy one planet to terrify the rest into line on a cost-benefit analysis.

[Seerow]

Was hoping this would be related to the movie.

This looks like Clone Wars except taking place closer to the timeline of the original trilogy, and being targeted at an even younger audience. I won't say it's bad, but I will say I am almost certainly not the target demographic there.

[Tengu_temp]

Did that robot say "what the ****"?

[Keris]

Was hoping this would be related to the movie. Same here.
Pendell, you might want to clarify the title a bit. And it's not even the first clip that's been released for Rebels (though it might be longest so far), it's just the one shown at WonderCon.



"If all you fight for is your own life, your life is worth nothing?"

What the heck kind of tag line is THAT?That's not the series tag line. It's from the start of the 'Meet Hera, the Pilot' video, which starts playing with an annotation link at the end of the WonderCon clip. I wouldn't assume it's the view the show is taking, though it's likely what Hera believes.


Did that robot say "what the ****"? All I heard was 'wub wub wub'.

[Mando Knight]

At Wondercon (http://www.realcleartechnology.com/video/2014/04/21/first_clip_from_disneys_star_wars_rebels.html) 54 seconds.

...

Initial reactions?

I'll put mine in spoilers, so as not to impact anyone else's.


Seems too pixarish to me, as if we were filming Toy Story INN SPACEEE!

"If all you fight for is your own life, your life is worth nothing?"

What the heck kind of tag line is THAT?

I am of the opinion that every individual sapient life has value and is worth fighting for. YES, unselfishness is good, but *worth nothing?* Are humans some kind of collective ant colony, in which the individual workers are disposable units? I THINK NOT.

That tag line sounds something like that would be spouted by an Imperial stormtrooper, devoid of individual identity and referred to by number rather than name. The Empire emphasizes the sacrifice of individuality by the masses for the benefit of the Emperor -- the Rebellion emphasizes the dignity and heroism of the individual. The Rebellion would NOT destroy one planet to terrify the rest into line on a cost-benefit analysis.

It's the same creative team that did The Clone Wars, and the exact same art style, which is why it looks "Pixar-ish." (It also therefore predates Disney's acquisition of the franchise by several years)

As to the quote, it might be a bit extreme, but the sentiment behind it is true: if your only concern is for your own survival, your life isn't worth much to anyone else, particularly compared to when you are "in it for your revolution." It's a common Rebel sentiment, judging by how Leia reacts to Han in ANH.

This looks like Clone Wars except taking place closer to the timeline of the original trilogy,It's the same team.
and being targeted at an even younger audience.
The Clone Wars got pretty dark in later seasons. I'm pretty sure Dave Filoni and his team know what they're doing, and if Rebels starts a little more lighthearted in the early episodes, I'm completely fine with that.

[Zrak]

I think the quote intended to convey the message "If all you fight for is yourself, then your life is worth nothing," but that isn't nearly as catchy as mirroring the word "life" in both halves of the phrase. As written, though, the quote comes off as much as a "screw you" to orphans struggling to survive in the slums of Nal Shadda as it does a "screw you" to self-serving bounty hunters.


All I heard was 'wub wub wub'.

Wubba lubba dub dub! Star Wars/Rick and Morty Crossover! Crossover adventures! Crossover forever! 100 years Crossover! Some things. Me and Crossover runnin' around and Crossover time a-all day long, forever, all a hundred days Crossover! Forever a hundred times. . . Over and over Crossover . . . adventures dot com! W W W dot at Crossover dot com! W W W Crossover adventures a hundred years, every minute crossover.com! W W W a hundred times crossover dot com!

[LaZodiac]

Female main character? Badass, well dressed member of the "generic green girl but with alien bits" race? Has a droid that's clearly smarmy, though only she can understand it?

I like this already.

[Cuthalion]

But this is not Episode VII, right?

[Tengu_temp]

That's not the main character. The main character is a plucky teenage girl... A Mandalorian plucky teenage girl. And the whole show is about a bunch of teenagers fighting the Empire, armed with little more than ATTITUDE.

Some time ago, I said that no matter what Disney will do with Star Wars, it can't be worse than the prequels. But I'm not so sure anymore.

[Lamech]

Looks like a good children's show. Not the target audience though.

[Olinser]

At Wondercon (http://www.realcleartechnology.com/video/2014/04/21/first_clip_from_disneys_star_wars_rebels.html) 54 seconds.

...

Initial reactions?

I'll put mine in spoilers, so as not to impact anyone else's.


Seems too pixarish to me, as if we were filming Toy Story INN SPACEEE!

"If all you fight for is your own life, your life is worth nothing?"

What the heck kind of tag line is THAT?

I am of the opinion that every individual sapient life has value and is worth fighting for. YES, unselfishness is good, but *worth nothing?* Are humans some kind of collective ant colony, in which the individual workers are disposable units? I THINK NOT.

That tag line sounds something like that would be spouted by an Imperial stormtrooper, devoid of individual identity and referred to by number rather than name. The Empire emphasizes the sacrifice of individuality by the masses for the benefit of the Emperor -- the Rebellion emphasizes the dignity and heroism of the individual. The Rebellion would NOT destroy one planet to terrify the rest into line on a cost-benefit analysis.


The line is a sentiment that has been expressed many times, by many people, usually in the context of a revolution.

The point is that living a live just to survive isn't really living - what's the point? If you don't have a goal, what are you DOING with that life?

[Kitten Champion]

So...

- No lightsabers
- No Jedi, as far as I can tell
- No lame lifeless characters I still don't give a damn about from terrible movies

Yeah, give these people an Emmy or whatever, they've earned it.

[Traab]

So...

- No lightsabers
- No Jedi, as far as I can tell
- No lame lifeless characters I still don't give a damn about from terrible movies

Yeah, give these people an Emmy or whatever, they've earned it.

Clearly that was R2-D2's cousin T3-4D. GOD! Am I the only one that pays attention to the EU? :smalltongue: In all seriousness, it looks more like a kids show, so I dont feel my opinion is all that valuable. Could be interesting though.

[Aotrs Commander]

Hmm.

While I does look Clone Wars-y... Something about the animation was also... Odd. I dunno, she seemed more... Cartoony than the Clone Wars style, which was stylised, but not cartoony.

Though, yeah, I agree, the lack of Jedi is a GOOD start (though unavoidable in the Empire Era, unless they are going to start re-writing the original movie canon, and I doubt anyone would be daft enough to try that. ... Probably.) Star Wars should not solely be about the magic space samurai.

Also, starship combat is also a good sign.

Other than that, I will just take a wait and see attitude to this.

[pendell]

The point is that living a live just to survive isn't really living - what's the point? If you don't have a goal, what are you DOING with that life?


And what happens when that life goal is irredeemably thwarted? What if your life goal is to win a gold medal, and you are in an accident? What happens if your goal is to save lives through medicine, and you completely flunk out of med school?

Is it time to shuffle off this mortal coil, 'cause you are useless, or is it time to find new goals?

See: Goals are nice. But a goal is merely a means to an end -- to give the time we spend on earth some greater meaning than eating, drinking, and reproducing.

Goals allow people to make measurable, tangible improvements to the lives of those around them. But a human life is, IMO, of transcendent value. The life of a person with severe disability is still of value, even if the person is unable to ever make any kind of economic, military, or cultural contribution.

So I still don't like the tagline. The fact is, most people aren't heroes and can't be if they tried. For most people, what they are going to be able to accomplish in life is to provide for a family, raise their children, and comfort their nearest and dearest.

A life is not meaningless if it is not lived with great goals and great heroism. The small things, the little things, the kind touch, the small acts of kindness and love ... these also keep the darkness away (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU5_-lLjhQw).

I'll throw the quote -- it's a villain quote but I still think it's profound -- "Can you not live unless you have some purpose?"

He's asking this question of a "hero" who was just misled into genocide by following his obi-wan too blindly. Now, having realized the magnitude of his folly, he's bounced over to follow some OTHER Obi-wan just as blindly. Because he's got to be the hero! And he's got to have some great purpose! Just being an ordinary human being living an ordinary life isn't enough -- to the sorrow of the people around him.

This is written from the perspective of a middle-aged man (me) who has seen a lot of the great dreams and purposes of his youth come crashing down, confronting him with the reality that most of his life ISN'T going to be an adventure novel -- it's going to be an ordinary life.

See , the point of being a hero is to save the world. But that means you've got to create a world worth saving -- where ordinary people can live ordinary lives with ordinary cares, tending primarily to their own business and rarely thinking about great matters. To give the world peace, time to heal, time to grow, and time to thrive. Absent something like this the great "larger than life purposes" are just thrill-seeking with a dose of self-righteous justification.

The graveyards of Europe are filled with the bodies of millions of young, shiny-eyed idealists who thought they could make the world a better place, and their "dream" mostly meant they spent their time killing each other. The contributions of ordinary people living ordinary lives for the most part have outlasted them.



As written, though, the quote comes off as much as a "screw you" to orphans struggling to survive in the slums of Nal Shadda as it does a "screw you" to self-serving bounty hunters.


Precisely.

ETA: Okay, how do I change the thread title?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

So...

- No lightsabers
- No Jedi, as far as I can tell
- No lame lifeless characters I still don't give a damn about from terrible movies

Yeah, give these people an Emmy or whatever, they've earned it.

It's an ensemble cast. Main characters include Hera, the Mandalorian punk, an escaped jedi (threw away his light saber, I think) and his 'apprentice', a force-sensitive kid he picked up.

[Olinser]

Also, for those of you saying it looks like a kid's movie... IT IS

It even says it in the OP's link - 'an animated CHILDREN'S SERIES called 'Star Wars Rebels'.

[TheThan]

Being a huge star wars fan, I was really curious to see what Disney would do with the franchise. But I had some fears and naturally some hopes about the franchise.

My Question:
What will Disney do with the Star Wars Franchise?

My Hypothesis:
Disney would produce 1-3 good star wars movies and then shuffle the franchise to the back of the bin, the dregs of disneydom. I’m talking about the Disney princess sequels; the direct to video garbage they churn out that parents foolishly buy because hey, it’s Disney it has to be good.



Evidence supporting my Hypothesis
A bunch of plucky kids (who don’t even look like teens) overthrowing the empire
A Jedi existing even though they’re all supposed to be dead except for Obi-wan and Yoda
A Mandolorian… just no
The slapstick droid
And that horrible quote which clearly had no thought put into it at all.

This is evidence to support my case. Now only time will tell if this turns out to be a good show or not.I'll be happy to admit when I'm wrong, if I'm wrong. Yes this is a kids show, but that doesn’t mean we can’t have standards. Heck when our children are involved, we should have even higher standards than what we ourselves hold to.

[Aotrs Commander]

Yes this is a kids show, but that doesn’t mean we can’t have standards. Heck when our children are involved, we should have even higher standards than what we ourselves hold to.

And let's be fair - Disney does have a track record that contains some really good stuff (Kim Possible, Phineas and Ferb, Gravity Falls in the more recent catalogue). So it's not impossible they could do a really good job.

On the other hand, it does also have some complete dreck cartoons to it's name as well. So it's not impossible they could do a really awful job, too. Which is why I'm cautious about it all.

I think we really shall have to wait and see.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Evidence supporting my Hypothesis
A bunch of plucky kids (who don’t even look like teens) overthrowing the empire
A Jedi existing even though they’re all supposed to be dead except for Obi-wan and Yoda
A Mandolorian… just no
The slapstick droid
And that horrible quote which clearly had no thought put into it at all.


I don't mind A Mando being in this. It's just.... THIS Mando. Stupid Sabine and her Phoenix graffiti rendering The Force Unleashed non-canon...

And, droids have ALWAYS had an element of slapstick. This just decided to have one instead of a balanced pair.

And also, there has ALWAYS been Jedi who escaped the initial Purge of Order 66. ALWAYS. The Inquisitorius existed for a reason. Sure, more have been coming out of the woodwork since RotS, but there were Jedi in the West End Games RPG, and that was back when the official backstory was Palpatine becoming President of the Republic, and there wasn't the foggiest idea of when exactly the Empire began and the Jedi Order was hunted down.

[Olinser]

Being a huge star wars fan, I was really curious to see what Disney would do with the franchise. But I had some fears and naturally some hopes about the franchise.

My Question:
What will Disney do with the Star Wars Franchise?

My Hypothesis:
Disney would produce 1-3 good star wars movies and then shuffle the franchise to the back of the bin, the dregs of disneydom. I’m talking about the Disney princess sequels; the direct to video garbage they churn out that parents foolishly buy because hey, it’s Disney it has to be good.



Evidence supporting my Hypothesis
A bunch of plucky kids (who don’t even look like teens) overthrowing the empire
A Jedi existing even though they’re all supposed to be dead except for Obi-wan and Yoda
A Mandolorian… just no
The slapstick droid
And that horrible quote which clearly had no thought put into it at all.

This is evidence to support my case. Now only time will tell if this turns out to be a good show or not.I'll be happy to admit when I'm wrong, if I'm wrong. Yes this is a kids show, but that doesn’t mean we can’t have standards. Heck when our children are involved, we should have even higher standards than what we ourselves hold to.

The Jedi weren't all dead. It took Vader and the Emperor YEARS to hunt all of the high-profile ones down, and there were plenty of lower Jedi throughout the EU that survived. Obi-Wan and Yoda were just the 2 most obvious.

[SaintRidley]

Thread title led me to expect it to be film related.

I am disappoint.

[Felhammer]

This looks like a young kids show.

Might be good for a laugh or two but definitely not something I will return to again and again. Hope I am wrong.

As for the Jedi, there have been more than a hundred confirmed survivors of Order 66. Which makes sense given that there are a million worlds in the Republic/Empire and millions more outside it (in Hutt Space, Wild Space, the Rici Maze, etc.). Most of the survivors were children, Masters or members of the Jedi Corps. (Force Sensitives that did not become Padawans and instead became healers, farmers, explorers and etc.).

[Ninjaxenomorph]

This looks like a young kids show.
As for the Jedi, there have been more than a hundred confirmed survivors of Order 66. Which makes sense given that there are a million worlds in the Republic/Empire and millions more outside it (in Hutt Space, Wild Space, the Rici Maze, etc.). Most of the survivors were children, Masters or members of the Jedi Corps. (Force Sensitives that did not become Padawans and instead became healers, farmers, explorers and etc.).
Are those the ones who survived the initial Purge, or were they pared down during the Dark Times?

[MLai]

There were F-tons of active Jedi. It makes sense Palpatine couldn't kill every last one of them through a single maneuver. What Order 66 did was break the back of the Order in 1 fell swoop, not unrealistically render them extinct so easily.

[HamHam]

That's not the main character. The main character is a plucky teenage girl... A Mandalorian plucky teenage girl. And the whole show is about a bunch of teenagers fighting the Empire, armed with little more than ATTITUDE.

Some time ago, I said that no matter what Disney will do with Star Wars, it can't be worse than the prequels. But I'm not so sure anymore.

It's basically your average Dark Times Saga party, really.

[TheThan]

Now I had a huge post all typed up and everything. Then I realized I was wasting too much of my life on this so I thought I’d just say a few things and be done here.

We can sit here and argue canon all we want but I personally see those things that I already mentioned as signs that this show will not be “good”. If you like those things that’s great but I feel they are detrimental to the franchise as a whole.

[Olinser]

There were F-tons of active Jedi. It makes sense Palpatine couldn't kill every last one of them through a single maneuver. What Order 66 did was break the back of the Order in 1 fell swoop, not unrealistically render them extinct so easily.

Pretty much.

Order 66 was not intended to completely exterminate the Jedi - that's what Palpatine's various force-hunters were for. What Order 66 was intended to do was gut the organization and turn it from a united group with leaders, organization, and combat power into fragmented individuals so busy just trying to survive that they couldn't threaten him. And it worked very well.

[BWR]

About 10 000 Jedi before the CW, so hardly copulate-tons. Quite a few died during the war, then most of the rest during Order 66. There were a few that escaped, but really it shouldn't be that many, few enough that Vader could find and kill the rest in the nearly 20 years leading up to ANH. It worked better when only Obi-wan and Yoda were left, but as the EU progressed more and more authors needed their pets to live, which kind of cheapens the original story.

[Hyena]

Wow-wow-wow-wow-wow. A twi'lek character that is not a prostitute or Aayla Secura? You must be crazy, Disney! I tell you, crazy!

[Seerow]

Wow-wow-wow-wow-wow. A twi'lek character that is not a prostitute or Aayla Secura? You must be crazy, Disney! I tell you, crazy!

There was twi'lek rogue with a wookie for a best friend in KotOR.

[pendell]

About 10 000 Jedi before the CW, so hardly copulate-tons. Quite a few died during the war, then most of the rest during Order 66. There were a few that escaped, but really it shouldn't be that many, few enough that Vader could find and kill the rest in the nearly 20 years leading up to ANH. It worked better when only Obi-wan and Yoda were left, but as the EU progressed more and more authors needed their pets to live, which kind of cheapens the original story.

I don't think so. Although this is a word not often used with relation to Star Wars, it actually makes the story more plausible.

I was reading a book on those people in the 40s who risked their lives to save Jews in Europe during the madness. It's a several hundred page book, each detailing a rescue. A dozen here, a family there, a factory full of people here, a single child there. Taken on the whole, a couple of thousand people were rescued by kindhearted people in Europe.

That doesn't change the fact that those few thousand survivors were a drop in the bucket compared to the SIX MILLION who died during the madness, at the hands of tyrants, their willing helpers, and the vast majority of apathetic people who couldn't be bothered either way.

Order 66 makes more sense in this light. Holocausts are quite hard to successfully bring off, as humans are intelligent and have a strong will to live -- typically a stronger desire to survive than MOST of their neighbors desire them to die. The vast majority of the human race is apathetic. In point of fact, I think that is what Order 66 is -- a retelling of the Holocaust in space. And the Empire are the Nazis. And the rebels are the small minority of people who look at the evil around them and choose to resist it, as opposed to willfully joining evil (a small minority in history) or simply ignoring the world around them (the vast majority ).

So a galaxy where there are a few hundred Jedi survivors living out their lives disguised as normals in far away places like Tatooine makes a great deal more sense than a world where Yoda and Obi-wan are the only survivors. The fact that Yoda and Obi-wan settled on LUke and Leia as their only hope can be rationalized by assuming that they were the only people with a high enough force potential to actually overthrow the Emperor -- other Jedi in hiding could help out individual people or make the world better in measurable ways, but they couldn't overthrow the Empire. Luke could.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Jayngfet]

That's not the main character. The main character is a plucky teenage girl... A Mandalorian plucky teenage girl. And the whole show is about a bunch of teenagers fighting the Empire, armed with little more than ATTITUDE.

Some time ago, I said that no matter what Disney will do with Star Wars, it can't be worse than the prequels. But I'm not so sure anymore.

Right. This is an abomination.

I mean Star Wars was never about stupid things, like teenagers with attitude fighting the Empire. Or about slapstick droids. Or funny looking aliens. Or about tough looking bad guys who could never manage to kill the same half dozen guys with no armor or military equipment no matter how many times they met.

Somehow, I wonder if there isn't an entire third trilogy made at the same time as the original, and I just keep walking into the wrong theater. Because so often when people say something ruins Star Wars, it just winds up being an updated version of what Star Wars actually was to begin with.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by pendell
Initial reactions?

One word:

Sigh.

[Kitten Champion]

Right. This is an abomination.

I mean Star Wars was never about stupid things, like teenagers with attitude fighting the Empire. Or about slapstick droids. Or funny looking aliens. Or about tough looking bad guys who could never manage to kill the same half dozen guys with no armor or military equipment no matter how many times they met.

Somehow, I wonder if there isn't an entire third trilogy made at the same time as the original, and I just keep walking into the wrong theater. Because so often when people say something ruins Star Wars, it just winds up being an updated version of what Star Wars actually was to begin with.

Personally I miss the ultra-violence, adult sexuality, and general grittiness that made Star Wars the Game of Thrones of its day.

I'm still shocked by the Leia/Jabba rape scene.

[Reverent-One]

Related to this, they've announced how the EU is going to be handled going forward (http://starwars.com/news/the-legendary-star-wars-expanded-universe-turns-a-new-page.html).

Basically the existing EU will be cherry-picked for elements as the writers feel like it, but otherwise the new story group in charge of controlling all Star Wars media (movies, tv shows, books, ect) does it feels like. Old EU material with enough demand for it to continue being published will go under the "Legends" brand label. Rebels is part of that new canon.

Can't say having a centralized group overseeing everything is itself a bad thing, but still, I guess that's one set of books I don't need to follow anymore.

[BWR]

I'm terribly skeptical of the whole Disney-SW thing in general. I try to remind myself that the EU did plenty of stupid things on their own, some of which will be hard to top. Then I'm reminded that people can easily make things even more stupid in the name of money and 'cool'.
So I will do basically what I've done the last however many years. Pick a few SW books/comics/whatever to read and pretend the rest doesn't exist. I just hope the amount of palatable stuff doesn't go down now. As long as they continue Dark Times (and don't screw that up) I'm about as happy as I can reasonably be expected to be.

[Reverent-One]

I'm terribly skeptical of the whole Disney-SW thing in general. I try to remind myself that the EU did plenty of stupid things on their own, some of which will be hard to top. Then I'm reminded that people can easily make things even more stupid in the name of money and 'cool'.
So I will do basically what I've done the last however many years. Pick a few SW books/comics/whatever to read and pretend the rest doesn't exist. I just hope the amount of palatable stuff doesn't go down now. As long as they continue Dark Times (and don't screw that up) I'm about as happy as I can reasonably be expected to be.

Well, Marvel's getting the comic license from Dark Horse at the end of the year, so that's not a good sign for any Dark Horse comic series. And it's right smack in a time period their new Story Board is working in with Rebels. I would not put money on it sticking around, though that's just my $.02.

[BWR]

Well, Marvel's getting the comic license from Dark Horse at the end of the year, so that's not a good sign for any Dark Horse comic series. And it's right smack in a time period their new Story Board is working in with Rebels. I would not put money on it sticking around, though that's just my $.02.

I'm still scarred from what happend to SW last time Marvel got their grubby little mitts on them. And this is from someone who loved the Ewoks cartoons.

[TheThan]

Related to this, they've announced how the EU is going to be handled going forward (http://starwars.com/news/the-legendary-star-wars-expanded-universe-turns-a-new-page.html).

Basically the existing EU will be cherry-picked for elements as the writers feel like it, but otherwise the new story group in charge of controlling all Star Wars media (movies, tv shows, books, ect) does it feels like. Old EU material with enough demand for it to continue being published will go under the "Legends" brand label. Rebels is part of that new canon.

Can't say having a centralized group overseeing everything is itself a bad thing, but still, I guess that's one set of books I don't need to follow anymore.

I've felt that the EU needed some cleaning up anyway. So as long as this team of people does a good job in determining what is canon and isn't canon, I'll be relatively happy with it.

[Aotrs Commander]

My sticking point is Thrawn. So long as Thrawn is still around (and to a lesser extent, TIE Fighter and thus TIE Defenders and whatnot) - and to a lesser extent, the X-Wing novels - I can take or leave a lot of the rest of the EU, and some of it I'll be happy to leave.

Still taking a wait-and-see.

Edit: Though the people on the linked video made me feel a little more easy - I mean, they even got Zhan there, so I'm going to be somewhat hopeful.

We'll see... We'll see.

[Talya]

My sticking point is Thrawn. So long as Thrawn is still around (and to a lesser extent, TIE Fighter and thus TIE Defenders and whatnot) - and to a lesser extent, the X-Wing novels - I can take or leave a lot of the rest of the EU, and some of it I'll be happy to leave.

Still taking a wait-and-see.

Edit: Though the people on the linked video made me feel a little more easy - I mean, they even got Zhan there, so I'm going to be somewhat hopeful.

We'll see... We'll see.

Thrawn himself was an okay character. The "plot" of Zahn's series, however, was lacking, and in the end, it's almost entirely contradicted by the Prequel Trilogy (which, while being actually WORSE than most of the EU, has canon priority.)

[Reverent-One]

I'll add that I didn't get the vibe that they're going to be going through everything and pick and choose which things will be canon, but by default nothing will, it all becomes "Legends" material, but they may may grab elements they like for their stories (and I'm not the only one who read it that way (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/134034-Lucasfilm-Makes-It-Official-Star-Wars-Expanded-Universe-Is-Dead?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=all)).

[Aotrs Commander]

Thrawn himself was an okay character. The "plot" of Zahn's series, however, was lacking, and in the end, it's almost entirely contradicted by the Prequel Trilogy (which, while being actually WORSE than most of the EU, has canon priority.)

As far as I'm concerned, Zhan's Thrawn trilogy is by a long margin the best part of Star Wars.

[Olinser]

As far as I'm concerned, Zhan's Thrawn trilogy is by a long margin the best part of Star Wars.

I agree. Which is why I hope to God they never try to make it. They'd ruin it forever.

[Yana]

Thrawn himself was an okay character. The "plot" of Zahn's series, however, was lacking, and in the end, it's almost entirely contradicted by the Prequel Trilogy (which, while being actually WORSE than most of the EU, has canon priority.)

Considering that the Thrawn trilogy and hand duology were written before any of the prequels, I prefer to believe that the Thrawn trilogy contradicts the prequels.

Besides, you can't tell me that the Star Wars universe would be better off without Thrawn, Mara Jade, Pellaeon, Talon Karrde, and Jorrus C'Baoth.

[Jayngfet]

Considering that Thrawn would overlap heavily with and contradict the new trilogy, it's basically guaranteed to be noncanon. Hell, that was probably among the first conversations they had.

[Reverent-One]

Considering that Thrawn would overlap heavily with and contradict the new trilogy, it's basically guaranteed to be noncanon. Hell, that was probably among the first conversations they had.

How so? Given there's a decade or two time difference between them in-universe and how little we know about the new trilogy, I don't know how we'd figure how contradictory they are.

[Jayngfet]

How so? Given there's a decade or two time difference between them in-universe and how little we know about the new trilogy, I don't know how we'd figure how contradictory they are.

...well there's the obvious fact that Ford and Hammill and Fischer are going to be in therm, and they're old. So the skywalkers and solo's are going to be old as well, much older than they'd have been around Thrawn and their kids would already be training. But obviously they haven't been casting any of those characters. They haven't even been given serious entertainment by the rumor mill. The casting info comes out formally in a couple of weeks, but I doubt they'll devote gobs of time and resources to giving Luke a spouse and a son and have no information leak out. Basically anything that isn't an exact and conscious match to the books will just destroy reams of material.

They've already outright stated that they aren't going to bother holding Abrams to EU canon and that he's free to do as he pleases. If it turns out he isn't a Mara Jade fan then just kiss anything with her in it goodbye. Or if he decides Luke wants to bone a Rodian and have slimy green babies, well that's your new reality, tough luck. As far as canon goes, the Thrawn trilogy is basically dead and there's nothing we can really do about it. I mean announcements of who's playing who aside, just look at who's confirmed to already be in it in some form. Lupita Nyong'o doesn't exactly bear much of a resemblance to Mara Jade, and Monaghan probably isn't playing Kyle Katarn, or any other big name EU characters.

At this point all we can really do is wait until the 4th and hope for the best.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Talya
The "plot" of Zahn's series, however, was lacking, and in the end, it's almost entirely contradicted by the Prequel Trilogy (which, while being actually WORSE than most of the EU, has canon priority.)

Part of the fine print of the early novels, as I recall, was that each book represented one possible future for the characters involved, and might be superseded by anything Lucasfilm chose to do later.

That said, I've just dug out my old copies of Truce at Bakura and Han Solo at Star's End (ahh, memories) and could't find any text to that effect...but I'm certain I read it somewhere. My understanding for many years back was that the novels were quasi-canon at best.

Really, if someone is going to go through and clean up the EU, that's fine by me. Any expanded universe that allows something as sophomoric as Labyrinth of Evil into the fold definitely needs a scouring.

[Reverent-One]

...well there's the obvious fact that Ford and Hammill and Fischer are going to be in therm, and they're old. So the skywalkers and solo's are going to be old as well, much older than they'd have been around Thrawn and their kids would already be training. But obviously they haven't been casting any of those characters. They haven't even been given serious entertainment by the rumor mill. The casting info comes out formally in a couple of weeks, but I doubt they'll devote gobs of time and resources to giving Luke a spouse and a son and have no information leak out. Basically anything that isn't an exact and conscious match to the books will just destroy reams of material.

Those are arguments for why the new movies won't be based on the Thrawn storyline, which you're right, we know they're not doing. That doesn't mean that the Thrawn novels will be noncanon in this new EU world, which is all I was curious about.

[Jayngfet]

...they literally can not be canon. The movies themselves will inevitably have conflicting details that make this impossible. Unless Leia is suddenly walking around with twins that alone makes half the thrawn novels suddenly not count.

[Reverent-One]

Ah, that's what I was looking for. It's been a while since I've read the earlier EU stuff, I didn't remember exactly when certain events (like Leia having the twins) happened. Yeah, that's a probable sticking point.

[Tengu_temp]

Right. This is an abomination.

I mean Star Wars was never about stupid things, like teenagers with attitude fighting the Empire. Or about slapstick droids. Or funny looking aliens. Or about tough looking bad guys who could never manage to kill the same half dozen guys with no armor or military equipment no matter how many times they met.

Somehow, I wonder if there isn't an entire third trilogy made at the same time as the original, and I just keep walking into the wrong theater. Because so often when people say something ruins Star Wars, it just winds up being an updated version of what Star Wars actually was to begin with.

Read my post again and don't use strawmen. I'm not saying this thing is going to ruin Star Wars. If it's even possible to ruin Star Wars, then what it did weren't even the prequels, but some horribly atrocious EU novels.

I'm saying this might be worse than the prequels. Maybe it won't be, but it might as well be. But if a combination of a Mandalorian main character and the main cast being a bunch of teenagers with attitude doesn't sound even a little bit worrying to you, then I don't know what to say. The fact that the released clip left me completely apathetic (the swearing droid was literally the only thing that grabbed my interest) didn't help - I hope this is not their best foot forward.



Besides, you can't tell me that the Star Wars universe would be better off without Thrawn, Mara Jade, Pellaeon, Talon Karrde, and Jorrus C'Baoth.

It would be better off without Mara Sue, at least! I mean Jade. Yeah.

[TheThan]

Honestly I think that the Thrawn Trilogy is workable with the established canon. All you really have to do is work around the cloned jedi. That’s easy; just Make joruus C’baoth not a clone, so he’d be Jorus C’Baoth. Since Thrawn is already after clones to fill out his stormtrooper ranks we don’t have too much of a conflict with established canon anyway. C’Baoth is nutz so him cloneing Luke is not a problem.

Disney already digitally De-aged Jeff Bridges for Tron Legacy, no reason why they can’t do the same for Luke and company. Scarlett Johansson already looks good with red hair and a skin tight catsuit, perfect match up for Mara Jade if you ask me.

[Trixie]

Related to this, they've announced how the EU is going to be handled going forward (http://starwars.com/news/the-legendary-star-wars-expanded-universe-turns-a-new-page.html).

Maybe finally WEG stuff will land in trash heap and VS debates including SW will stop including one side latching to 'non canon in all but name' 30 year old cheap books written by people who couldn't count to 20.

As for Rebels, not very optimistic. The fact every single imperial shown so far is either a Sith wannabe or faceless mook waiting to be killed by teenager treating it like a game shows very bad direction choice, IMHO.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Maybe finally WEG stuff will land in trash heap and VS debates including SW will stop including one side latching to 'non canon in all but name' 30 year old cheap books written by people who couldn't count to 20.

The heck is wrong with WEG stuff?

[Trixie]

The heck is wrong with WEG stuff?

What can be wrong with a game so ridiculously biased for playing rebels that GM was ordered to take away your character sheet for pro-Imperial sympathies, elite imperial commandos and starships having worse stats than 50 year old rebel junk and raw recruits, writers never bothering to do math which produced such stupid things as canonically million worlds strong Empire either having three-digit number of worlds or imperial sector fleets being tens of thousands of times weaker than stated? :smallsigh:

I have read almost all WEG books, have most of them but now that I look back it had atrocious writing and game system that had literally nothing in common with Star Wars. It was quick, yes, but if you wanted to reproduce anything but most ludicrously one-sided rebel propaganda it was useless without heavy editing. I mean, this was the system where Arnold Schwarzenegger could have safely shaved with lightsaber, all thanks to wonky damage mechanics.

EDIT: and don't get me started on economic side of the game, particularly scaling of prices of guns, vehicles and ships. Because this is something easily copyable from real life yet writers still managed to produce such monumental brain farts as ship 2x larger in volume and armaments somehow being worth hundreds of times more :smallsigh:

[Hyena]

Well, Empire did blow up planet for nothing more then a suspicion of it holding rebels. The whole structure was also ridiculously racist and sexist. Yes, it was effecient - but it was effecient in two things, terror and war.
Shortly, if something is rebel-biased, it might have a point.

[Devonix]

Maybe finally WEG stuff will land in trash heap and VS debates including SW will stop including one side latching to 'non canon in all but name' 30 year old cheap books written by people who couldn't count to 20.

As for Rebels, not very optimistic. The fact every single imperial shown so far is either a Sith wannabe or faceless mook waiting to be killed by teenager treating it like a game shows very bad direction choice, IMHO.

Nope people will just have to be more specific when saying which continuity they are referring to. Just like someone saying Galactus vs Post Crisis Superman.

Or IDW Cybertronian Empire vs Pre Reboot Starwars EU. Which is something I would love to see.

[Yana]

It would be better off without Mara Sue, at least! I mean Jade. Yeah.

Can you back up that statement with an anecdote? I've not read much of the EU outside of Zahn and the X-Wing novels, and I never got the impression that Mara Jade succeeded at everything she set out to do effortlessly while everyone fawned about how perfect she was. Good at her job, sure. Perfect, not so much.

[warty goblin]

Right. This is an abomination.

I mean Star Wars was never about stupid things, like teenagers with attitude fighting the Empire. Or about slapstick droids. Or funny looking aliens. Or about tough looking bad guys who could never manage to kill the same half dozen guys with no armor or military equipment no matter how many times they met.

Somehow, I wonder if there isn't an entire third trilogy made at the same time as the original, and I just keep walking into the wrong theater. Because so often when people say something ruins Star Wars, it just winds up being an updated version of what Star Wars actually was to begin with.

Careful now, you're making reasonable statements about the original Star Wars trilogy in a Star Wars thread. We don't want this to end badly.

On topic: a clip from a TV show aimed at kids looks like a clip from a TV show aimed at kids. Since Star Wars was basically adventure stories aimed at teens/twenty-somethings with the serial numbers lightly sanded off in the first place, this is not exactly new ground. Maybe aiming a bit younger than usual, but that's about it. Maybe the specific structure of this particular tweeny-adventure story has been updated to modern expectations, instead of those from thirty-five years ago, but that's just how the wheel spins. Stuff made now is different than stuff made thirty-five years ago; which is generally a good thing because the stagnation implied by the converse position is extraordinarily stifling.

On canon: How the hell is it possible to even care? It's like the even more absurd version of antidisestablishmentarianism, which at least had the advantage of being tangentially connected to reality in a vague sort of way. Nor is there much argument to be made with contaminating any sort of original artistic or philosophical vision as there is with disentangling Lovecraft from Derleth's later revisions, because Star Wars never had a philosophy and the only artistic vision it's had for the last multiple decades starts with "D" and ends with "ollars." Which isn't to say that some of the EU stuff aren't good stories. I don't see however how their readability or quality is changed or diminished because somebody else makes a movie that ignores them.

[Olinser]

Can you back up that statement with an anecdote? I've not read much of the EU outside of Zahn and the X-Wing novels, and I never got the impression that Mara Jade succeeded at everything she set out to do effortlessly while everyone fawned about how perfect she was. Good at her job, sure. Perfect, not so much.

Zahn wrote her fairly realistically.

It wasn't until other hack EU writers got ahold of her that she turned into a Mary Sue.

[runeghost]

There were F-tons of active Jedi. It makes sense Palpatine couldn't kill every last one of them through a single maneuver. What Order 66 did was break the back of the Order in 1 fell swoop, not unrealistically render them extinct so easily.

That's pretty much been explicit since the original film,

A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.

I.e. Vader spent some non-zero span of time hunting Jedi at the Emperor's behest, and the Jedi are gone as a force in Galactic affiars ("their fire has gone out of the galaxy") but not 100% destroyed.