Artificer w/Persistant Spell feat?

[Bloodgruve]

Could a 7th level artificer with Persistent Spell feat use Spell Storing Item infusion, place Divine Power into it, then cast Metamagic Item infusion with Persistent Spell, then trigger the stored spell for a 24 hour duration?

Thanks
Blood

[Afgncaap5]

Maybe. I believe there are ways to apply metamagic effects to wands, yes?

The challenge is that most of the ways that I know involve sacrificing multiple charges of the wands, and when an artificer uses Spell Storing Item, the artificer is creating a unique magic item that acts as a "single use" wand mechanically. The artificer is not "casting" the spell themselves, after all; they are forming a magic item that casts it for them when they use it.

Edit: There are, I think, some things that would allow an Artificer to use action points instead of charges. I'd have to look up the specific rules (I assume you're using action points, otherwise an Artificer can be a bit unwieldy when surprise combat happens, or at least limited to certain emergency infusions that benefit the artificer/hurt the opponent more than helping the rest of the team). The challenge will be seeing if the wording on those things specifies "wands" or just "charged items." If it's a Charged Item, then yeah. If it has to be a literal wand, though, then it wouldn't work. (Even if the item you're putting the spell into happens to be an old magic wand that used up all its previous charges.)

[sleepyphoenixx]

Metamagic Item works on spell trigger items (wands and staffs). The item becomes a wand with one charge, so yes.

[Afgncaap5]

A possible problem comes to mind, though: how closely is this thing a wand? If it's mechanically exactly a wand, then there may be an issue due to the limit on wands having an upper cap of fourth level spells and the fact that metamagic would increase that spell beyond the fourth level limit (especially since persist increases a spell level by four.)

If it's just generally "like" a wand, then there may be some wiggle room.

[Deophaun]

A possible problem comes to mind, though: how closely is this thing a wand?
It is "in effect, a wand with a single charge." So it acts like a wand as far as the rules are concerned.

If it's mechanically exactly a wand, then there may be an issue due to the limit on wands having an upper cap of fourth level spells and the fact that metamagic would increase that spell beyond the fourth level limit (especially since persist increases a spell level by four.)
Metamagic Item is not constrained by level caps, as the example explaining how Metamagic Item works (fireball from wand of fireballs + Empower = 5th level spell) illustrates.

[Bloodgruve]

Metamagic Item infusion simply states 'You temporarily apply a metamagic feat you know to a single spell contained within a spell trigger item'.

It doesn't state that you use more charges or the caster level is raised.

I think the requirements for a higher spell slot triggers as you're memorizing or casting a spell from your daily pool?

Blood~

[sleepyphoenixx]

Metamagic Item infusion simply states 'You temporarily apply a metamagic feat you know to a single spell contained within a spell trigger item'.

It doesn't state that you use more charges or the caster level is raised.

I think the requirements for a higher spell slot triggers as you're memorizing or casting a spell from your daily pool?

Blood~

That is correct. You can also create wands with metamagic applied as long as the metamagicked spell doesn't have a level higher than 4th.
None of that is relevant for the Metamagic Item infusion or Metamagic Spell Trigger though.
Metamagic Item (the infusion) lets you add any metamagic feat you have in exchange for the infusion slot, with no restrictions or other costs.
Metamagic Spell Trigger (the class feature) consumes an additional charge for every level of adjustment but has no other restrictions.

[Deophaun]

Now, considering that all that matters for an Artificer's magic item crafting is the UMD check and his caster level, look at what applying Persistent Spell to consumptive field does.

[Bloodgruve]

Now, considering that all that matters for an Artificer's magic item crafting is the UMD check and his caster level, look at what applying Persistent Spell to consumptive field does.

Well that looks fun...

So for a light XP tax you could persist any spells you can Spell Storing Item. This just made me want to Artificer more...

Thanks much,

Blood~

[Koalita]

Assuming you pass the 32 DC check, what level would you need to be to do this? Level 3 to spell store Divine Power, but 5th level to be able to metamagic item it? Do you need to be level 7?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Assuming you pass the 32 DC check, what level would you need to be to do this? Level 3 to spell store Divine Power, but 5th level to be able to metamagic item it? Do you need to be level 7?

You need to be level 8 because Spell Storing Item has a limit of one-half your Artificer level (max 4). Level 6 if you get it off the Runescarred Berserker list.

[Koalita]

You need to be level 8 because Spell Storing Item has a limit of one-half your Artificer level (max 4). Level 6 if you get it off the Runescarred Berserker list.
Thanks, not sure why I took one-half was *1.5 instead of *0.5!
That makes sense though :)

[CIDE]

I've never looked at metamagic+items rules (I've never done it and no noe's ever tried it in my games) but...how would it work with something like wand surge and the metamagic? Where are these rules anyway?

[Bloodgruve]

You need to be level 8 because Spell Storing Item has a limit of one-half your Artificer level (max 4). Level 6 if you get it off the Runescarred Berserker list.

Bah, yep, level 8 is needed using the cleric list.

Is it legal to take a spell off of an obscure class's spell list for something like this? I thought I had seen something about it but that may have been a debate on Haste and Trapsmith or something.

DC32 can be no-fail at lvl 8 with the right build.


I've never looked at metamagic+items rules (I've never done it and no noe's ever tried it in my games) but...how would it work with something like wand surge and the metamagic? Where are these rules anyway?

The Artificer has Metamagic Spell Trigger class feature at lvl 7 that allows you to burn charges in place of elevated spell levels when applying metamagic feats you know. So Persisted Divine Power would burn 7 charges off of a wand. The Metamagic Item infusion allows you to burn 1 charge and apply metamagic feats you know to a single trigger without elevating spell levels I believe.

Wand surge doesn't allow any metamagic to be applied to a triggered spell.

I believe you can create spell trigger items with metamagic applied to them but it must be done at creation and uses the new increased spell level for crafting calculations. "Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal. " from SRD implies that you could create a wand of persisted Divine Power even though it would be a 4th lvl +6 levels spell. But I personally haven't messed with a lot of item creation or metamagics TBH so this could be wrong.

Blood~

[Aharon]

Bah, yep, level 8 is needed using the cleric list.

Is it legal to take a spell off of an obscure class's spell list for something like this? I thought I had seen something about it but that may have been a debate on Haste and Trapsmith or something.

DC32 can be no-fail at lvl 8 with the right build.



The Artificer has Metamagic Spell Trigger class feature at lvl 7 that allows you to burn charges in place of elevated spell levels when applying metamagic feats you know. So Persisted Divine Power would burn 7 charges off of a wand. The Metamagic Item infusion allows you to burn 1 charge and apply metamagic feats you know to a single trigger without elevating spell levels I believe.

Wand surge doesn't allow any metamagic to be applied to a triggered spell.

I believe you can create spell trigger items with metamagic applied to them but it must be done at creation and uses the new increased spell level for crafting calculations. "Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal. " from SRD implies that you could create a wand of persisted Divine Power even though it would be a 4th lvl +6 levels spell. But I personally haven't messed with a lot of item creation or metamagics TBH so this could be wrong.

Blood~

Use Concurrent Item Infusion to get Spell Storing Item without the XP tax :-)

[Bloodgruve]

Use Concurrent Item Infusion to get Spell Storing Item without the XP tax :-)

So that's pretty kool also..

TY
Blood~

[Yogibear41]

Use Concurrent Item Infusion to get Spell Storing Item without the XP tax :-)

Wouldn't you have to pay the XP cost anyway?

[Aharon]

Wouldn't you have to pay the XP cost anyway?

No. The relevant line reads as follows:


When you cast this infusion, you can imbue the target object with the effects of three different 1st-level infusions chosen at the time of casting.

The cost of an effect (in this case, the XP cost) isn't part of the effect itself. A hypothetical creature with Spell storing item as a spell-like wouldn't have to pay the xp cost, either. (By the way, concurrent item infusion is also great for getting lots of situational lesser armor and weapon augmentations such as blurring).