PDA

View Full Version : Things Non-Roleplayers Don't Understand



Sylthia
2014-04-22, 05:03 PM
In my years of playing tabletop RPGs, mostly DnD, I've noticed a few common misconceptions. Feel free to add your own, while being civil. It's not us vs them.

Most common, people don't seem to understand that DnD is a co-op game, or is meant to be. Directly tied to that, you don't really "win" DnD.

Colleague: What did you do this weekend?
Me: I played some DnD with my friends.
Colleague: Oh, did you win?

Not as common, but no role playing games aren't satanic, at least no more than your local theater group doing MacBeth.

Kaun
2014-04-22, 05:15 PM
The one i always get is that people think you have to dress up to play. Then i explain that, no, that's just LARPing. Then i need to explain what LARPing is. Then i need to explain the difference between rping and LARPing. Then i need to explain that, no, table top RPing doesn't involve running around with swords... and so on... lol

Now i just say, "you can i guess, but i don't."

Slipperychicken
2014-04-22, 05:42 PM
When I talk to non-roleplayers about it, I typically mention that stuff ("It's not LARPing, it's not satanism") in the same breath used to utter the acronym "dnd".

People I've talked to about it tend to be relatively understanding, are at least passingly familiar with the concept ("Like what they were playing on that one episode of [popular comedy series], right?"), or else already have close friends who play TTRPGs.

sktarq
2014-04-22, 05:47 PM
That it somehow involves advanced math....That calculus and what non-mathematician sorts would call advanced algebra are constant companions.

That it is the same as wow on a piece of cardboard.

Lord_Burch
2014-04-22, 06:38 PM
Not as common, but no role playing games aren't satanic, at least no more than your local theater group doing MacBeth.

Funnily enough, when I was, oh, maybe ten or so, and having recently read LotR and other high fantasies besides, I saw something related to DnD at my local Barnes & Nobles, when I was there with my mom. Now, I had absolutely no understanding of the game at the time- I thought it would be something similar to LotR or the like- but when I asked for it, my mom simply said "no". Later, when we got home, she had this long(I say long, it probably wasn't that long) tirade about how "satanic" and "immoral" DnD was.

Anyway, just thought I'd share.

INDYSTAR188
2014-04-22, 06:39 PM
That all sorts of people have this hobby, not just pocket-protector wearing Bill Nye types (not that there's anything wrong with that awesome style). I am in the military, work a full-time job, coach my kids soccer team, love sports, and I consider myself a pretty regular guy. It's not any wierder than Fantasy Football, WoW, Game of Thrones, etc.

Terraoblivion
2014-04-22, 07:06 PM
The only real misconception I run into is people thinking all roleplaying is LARPing. Specifically combat-centered LARPing in the woods, not Vampire LARPing or similar. However, people also has a tendency not to ask questions, so I'm sure there are plenty more misconceptions that just never get uttered.

Sylthia
2014-04-22, 07:42 PM
The one i always get is that people think you have to dress up to play. Then i explain that, no, that's just LARPing. Then i need to explain what LARPing is. Then i need to explain the difference between rping and LARPing. Then i need to explain that, no, table top RPing doesn't involve running around with swords... and so on... lol

Now i just say, "you can i guess, but i don't."

I forgot about the LARPing confusion. Yeah, I get that one a lot. Although personally, I think it does look like fun.

Joe the Rat
2014-04-22, 08:25 PM
It's a group effort. Card players get the partner thing, but the idea that all of the players are on the same team can be a bit weird.


That it somehow involves advanced math....That calculus and what non-mathematician sorts would call advanced algebra are constant companions. Indeed. For many, it is your first introduction to probability and distributions.

...and we still take long odds like a desperate tourist at the craps table.

TandemChelipeds
2014-04-22, 09:08 PM
That it is the same as wow on a piece of cardboard.

Oh my god, this. When I was first getting into DMing, all my friends were new to the game, and one of them complained that they never got any treasure. It just didn't occur to him to loot the enemies. I guess he was used to having floating indicators or whatever they have in MMOs.

Sylthia
2014-04-22, 09:19 PM
Oh my god, this. When I was first getting into DMing, all my friends were new to the game, and one of them complained that they never got any treasure. It just didn't occur to him to loot the enemies. I guess he was used to having floating indicators or whatever they have in MMOs.

Players didn't think to loot the enemies? The PCs in my campaign even search Carrion Crawler droppings for treasure.

Mnemophage
2014-04-22, 10:26 PM
Every pen and paper RPG is D&D, apparently.

I mean, I like D&D, but that's not all I play. Campaigns close, and we begin new ones. Sometimes we play RIFTS, sometimes Call of Cthulhu, sometimes Vampire, sometimes whatever strikes our fancy. However, whenever I try to explain what some of this is ("It's like a post-apocalyptic Earth, with portals to everywhere, and magic, and giant robots, and every single object in the world has a skull on it, and I'm the anthropomorphic triceratops on a pterodactyl with a laser lance") eyes just blank over until I just say, "It's D&D".

Slipperychicken
2014-04-22, 10:40 PM
Every pen and paper RPG is D&D, apparently.

I mean, I like D&D, but that's not all I play. Campaigns close, and we begin new ones. Sometimes we play RIFTS, sometimes Call of Cthulhu, sometimes Vampire, sometimes whatever strikes our fancy. However, whenever I try to explain what some of this is ("It's like a post-apocalyptic Earth, with portals to everywhere, and magic, and giant robots, and every single object in the world has a skull on it, and I'm the anthropomorphic triceratops on a pterodactyl with a laser lance") eyes just blank over until I just say, "It's D&D".

I've seen this, only I usually say something something to the effect of "It's like D&D, but it's [insert genre here] instead of fantasy". It seems to get the point across well enough.

veti
2014-04-22, 10:51 PM
"How did it end?"

The game doesn't end. Even when you reach a conclusion, it doesn't end, any more than "real life" does.

Knaight
2014-04-22, 11:02 PM
"How did it end?"

The game doesn't end. Even when you reach a conclusion, it doesn't end, any more than "real life" does.
It totally ends*. Campaigns are played, they draw to a close/are abandoned, and that constitutes an ending.

*For that matter so does "real life" at the individual level.

~xFellWardenx~
2014-04-22, 11:36 PM
It totally ends*. Campaigns are played, they draw to a close/are abandoned, and that constitutes an ending.

*For that matter so does "real life" at the individual level.

Campaigns end in much the same way a life ends. D&D ends in much the same way reality ends.

Except I think I'd cry more over D&D, since I'd still exist to do so.

Knaight
2014-04-23, 12:01 AM
Campaigns end in much the same way a life ends. D&D ends in much the same way reality ends.

The same comparison could be made with individual Monopoly games and Monopoly. For that matter, it could be made of a book - sure, you read it until it's done, but it's still there and available to reread.

Altair_the_Vexed
2014-04-23, 02:54 AM
I affirm all preconceptions with a slow, sinister smile.

"You do magic?"
"You dress up as goblins?"

:smallbiggrin:

In other news, I was once playing a anti-corporate insurrectionist, under cover as a DJ in a cyberpunk game. We had monthly LARP sessions as well as the online forum-based game - it worked really well.
Away from the game, round a mutual friend's house, I was chatting away to a mate about how I was a a bit worried that if my secret got out, then the Zaibatsu security would just drag me out of the DJ booth and shoot me in head - and our mutual friend came in, looking worried.
"Who is this guy again?" she asked

It took some explaining.

BWR
2014-04-23, 05:55 AM
Funnily enough, when I was, oh, maybe ten or so, and having recently read LotR and other high fantasies besides, I saw something related to DnD at my local Barnes & Nobles, when I was there with my mom. Now, I had absolutely no understanding of the game at the time- I thought it would be something similar to LotR or the like- but when I asked for it, my mom simply said "no". Later, when we got home, she had this long(I say long, it probably wasn't that long) tirade about how "satanic" and "immoral" DnD was.

Anyway, just thought I'd share.

My mother's reaction when I first started was "I thought it sounded like something you'd like".
I have an awesome mom.

Other than that, most people I have spoken to here either don't know enough to have any sort of opinoin, wrong or otherwise, or they are familiar enough to know the basics. Some may think it's restricted to replaying LOTR around the table, but they the thing about Satanism never really made it into the public consciousness here, and the thought of learning real magic is cool to credulous fools (witness the number of people believing in various 'healers' and other alternative treatments).

lytokk
2014-04-23, 06:53 AM
That getting together to play games is a social gathering of friends. Same as getting together to watch a movie or meet at a bar to watch a football game. The difference is we're writing our own movie and scoring our own touchdowns.

That it takes an insane amount of time when compared to other "geek" interests. For example, my group of friends gets together every few weeks to play magic. When I suggested that maybe some time we should play D&D, one vocal friend said he wouldn't ever want to spend that much time on anything. When I pointed out that it takes hours to make a magic deck, we usually spend all night playing magic and some of our matches can last longer than any encounter in D&D, he still remained unconvinced.

why table top RPGs are better than digital RPGs (at least in my opinion). Since the digital game designers can't possibly predict every choice the player wants to make, or every plan the player wants to hash together, table tops are definitely much better suited to this task. I've often expressed table tops have an unlimited freedom over video games.

Overall, a sense of why I do it, instead of other things.

Raimun
2014-04-23, 09:12 AM
They don't understand what exactly they are.

Can't really blame them. Most games are played in someone's house and non-gamers aren't usually invited during that time because the game is on and it requires all the focus of the owner of the house. This not very visible hobby like paint ball, larping or football.

Usually when I'm required to explain, I tend to go with some or all of the following points:

- It's not on a computer
- It's a social event
- It's kind of like shared storytelling
- Everyone plays a character
- Except one person, the GM, who plays every other character, runs the world and challenges the players
- There are rulebooks which govern the actions one can try during the game
- Every player character has a list of abilities that are marked down on a character sheet, like strength, senses, etc.
- You roll dice to determine if you succeed on an action

I rarely have to explain that it's not LARPing. Most people unfamiliar with games more complex and/or weirder than chess and monopoly haven't heard of that either.

CarpeGuitarrem
2014-04-23, 10:52 AM
Every pen and paper RPG is D&D, apparently.

I mean, I like D&D, but that's not all I play. Campaigns close, and we begin new ones. Sometimes we play RIFTS, sometimes Call of Cthulhu, sometimes Vampire, sometimes whatever strikes our fancy. However, whenever I try to explain what some of this is ("It's like a post-apocalyptic Earth, with portals to everywhere, and magic, and giant robots, and every single object in the world has a skull on it, and I'm the anthropomorphic triceratops on a pterodactyl with a laser lance") eyes just blank over until I just say, "It's D&D".
For me, it's either this or conflating all RPGs with LARPing.

jedipotter
2014-04-23, 11:49 AM
Most common, people don't seem to understand that DnD is a co-op game, or is meant to be.


This is a common thing that not only do non-roleplayers, but also role-players don't understand. The whole ''co-op'' thing comes from all them other RPGs.


Non-Roleplayers also don't understand the concept of role-playing. It is not something most people have ever done. Few people ''play a roll''.

Tengu_temp
2014-04-23, 12:00 PM
From my experience, it's very hard to explain RPGs to people who know nothing about them. They will think it's some kind of board game with one player being a judge, or perhaps improv theater.


Every pen and paper RPG is D&D, apparently.


I'd say this is less a thing non-roleplayers don't understand, and more a thing people who only play DND don't understand.

huttj509
2014-04-23, 01:10 PM
In other news, I was once playing a anti-corporate insurrectionist, under cover as a DJ in a cyberpunk game. We had monthly LARP sessions as well as the online forum-based game - it worked really well.
Away from the game, round a mutual friend's house, I was chatting away to a mate about how I was a a bit worried that if my secret got out, then the Zaibatsu security would just drag me out of the DJ booth and shoot me in head - and our mutual friend came in, looking worried.
"Who is this guy again?" she asked

It took some explaining.

I'm reminded of hearing some friends talking about their L5R campaign.

"So the Lion walks in on my Scorpion, and the Crab just pulls out his tetsubo."

I could follow the overall arc, but man it's a weird conversation to come in in the middle of when you don't know the clans.

Slipperychicken
2014-04-23, 01:23 PM
I'm reminded of hearing some friends talking about their L5R campaign.

"So the Lion walks in on my Scorpion, and the Crab just pulls out his tetsubo."

I could follow the overall arc, but man it's a weird conversation to come in in the middle of when you don't know the clans.

You think that's awkward? Try having a pair of cops walk in during a planning-session for Shadowrun. Until they saw the dice and minis, they probably thought we were planning an actual kidnapping. We pretty much stopped playing Shadowrun after that incident.

Spacebatsy
2014-04-23, 01:46 PM
You think that's awkward? Try having a pair of cops walk in during a planning-session for Shadowrun. Until they saw the dice and minis, they probably thought we were planning an actual kidnapping. We pretty much stopped playing Shadowrun after that incident.

You think that’s awkward? Brace yourself!

I was once at my fathers house and his wife was watching the news and suddenly called out:
“They say on the news that more and more people have been reported getting injured during roleplay! That’s dangerous!”
I thought to myself: “now this I got to see”, and sat down waiting for the later re-run.
Come the news and sure enough, there was a short reportage of people receiving injuries while “exploring BDSM and sexual roleplay” :smalleek:

Now THAT was awkward. Like my grandma always say: Should one laugh or weep?

erikun
2014-04-23, 02:44 PM
All RPGs are not D&D. We can play a RPG that doesn't involve killing orcs with swords.
The point of a RPG is to take actions yourself and have them affect the game. You don't need to be told to go somewhere before you can go there.
You can do whatever is reasonably possible to accomplish. You do not need to look at an actions list on your character sheet.

CarpeGuitarrem
2014-04-23, 02:47 PM
I'd say this is less a thing non-roleplayers don't understand, and more a thing people who only play DND don't understand.
I think it's something that non-roleplayers don't really understand, because of the people who only play D&D. That, and Jack Chick. D&D is almost exclusively the RPG with mainstream media exposure.

You think that’s awkward? Brace yourself!

I was once at my fathers house and his wife was watching the new and suddenly called out:
“They say on the news that more and more people have been reported getting injured during roleplay! That’s dangerous!”
I thought to myself: “now this I got to see”, and sat down waiting for the later re-run.
Come the news and sure enough, there was a short reportage of people receiving injuries while “exploring BDSM and sexual roleplay” :smalleek:

Now THAT was awkward. Like my grandma always say: Should one laugh or weep?
I've never run into that one personally, but yeah. That's another thing.

Arbane
2014-04-23, 02:59 PM
Non-Roleplayers also don't understand the concept of role-playing. It is not something most people have ever done. Few people ''play a roll''.

The best description I've heard so far is "roleplaying games are cross between a strategy game and improv radio drama."

veti
2014-04-23, 04:52 PM
It totally ends*. Campaigns are played, they draw to a close/are abandoned, and that constitutes an ending.

Campaigns may end (eventually, after years of play), but the game doesn't. The world is still there (probably...), and if it was any good, there'll be another campaign along soon. Occupying the same space, dealing with the debris left by the last campaign, continuing its story.

Knaight
2014-04-23, 05:03 PM
Campaigns may end (eventually, after years of play), but the game doesn't. The world is still there (probably...), and if it was any good, there'll be another campaign along soon. Occupying the same space, dealing with the debris left by the last campaign, continuing its story.

Or you use a setting for a quick one shot and never come back to it again. You appear to have a very particular style involving long campaigns which you return to, but that's hardly universal.

Silus
2014-04-23, 06:14 PM
Let's see, things I get asked when I talk about TTRPGs...

"So do you play this on a computer?"
"What does 'Dee and Dee' stand for?"
"Do you make this stuff up?"

Also people don't seem to get that gaming from 4PM to 9PM is a "short" session.

INDYSTAR188
2014-04-23, 07:34 PM
Also people don't seem to get that gaming from 4PM to 9PM is a "short" session.

I get this a lot too. I respond with something close to 'it's a game yes, but it's also a lot of hanging out, laughing, eating, and joking too'.

ORione
2014-04-23, 07:37 PM
Also people don't seem to get that gaming from 4PM to 9PM is a "short" session.

Five hours? Man, I wish I had your free time.

GPuzzle
2014-04-23, 08:04 PM
Well, I've had two sorts of reactions to "Hey, I've got nothing to do on a Saturday, thought we might play some RPGs. Wanna come home?"

The first is the reaction I got from my friends and/or people that can be considered nerds (although my friends are nerds already but nevermind): "Wait, what?" followed by "Hell yeah, we're playing that! How much time are we going to spend?" followed by a jaw drop.

The second applies to everyone else: "What?"

Followed by my explanation of "It's a mix between improvisation theater, tabletop games and a bunch of nerds sitting around a table with something to eat while talking a mixture of nonsense, Monty Python, and things that could get us in jail."

INDYSTAR188
2014-04-23, 08:19 PM
Five hours? Man, I wish I had your free time.

To be fair, we only meet every other week (if me the DM or the host are available).

Mr Beer
2014-04-24, 01:39 AM
"RPGs?"
"Yeah - you know, like D&D?"
"OK, cool"

Rarely had to explain beyond that point.

F1zban
2014-04-24, 07:09 AM
This conversation came up when talking with some colleagues about weekend activites:

Them: So what did you do on the weekend?
Me: I did some roleplaying
Them: Ah kinky, too much information though
Me: ah yes, well there was that too... but I was talking about D&D

DigoDragon
2014-04-24, 07:42 AM
The best description I've heard so far is "roleplaying games are cross between a strategy game and improv radio drama."

That is a good description. I usually explain that RPing is much like improv acting. The GM gives you the scene and you respond accordingly.

CarpeGuitarrem
2014-04-24, 09:02 AM
Also people don't seem to get that gaming from 4PM to 9PM is a "short" session.
This is definitely relative. I don't count that a "short" session, I count that an average-tending-towards-long session. A short session is an hour-and-a-half, an average session is 2-3 hours for me.

After college, I think this becomes more and more true. :smallwink:

BeholdenCaulf
2014-04-24, 09:11 AM
Me: I played d&d last night
Them: did you win?
Me: no, it's a team game and besides, I'm the DM
Them: DM?
Me: Dungeon Master, I sort of control the other people and enemies
Them: so it's the whole team vs. you?
Me: a little bit like that, yes
Them: isn't that unfair?
Me: not really, they're 3 or 4 characters, I'm everyone else in the game world
Them: oh..... isn't THAT unfair?
Me: -.-

Sylthia
2014-04-24, 09:17 AM
Me: I played d&d last night
Them: did you win?
Me: no, it's a team game and besides, I'm the DM
Them: DM?
Me: Dungeon Master, I sort of control the other people and enemies
Them: so it's the whole team vs. you?
Me: a little bit like that, yes
Them: isn't that unfair?
Me: not really, they're 3 or 4 characters, I'm everyone else in the game world
Them: oh..... isn't THAT unfair?
Me: -.-

Did they ask what level DM you are?

Loxagn
2014-04-24, 09:21 AM
A friend of mine answered his niece's questions about the subject by calling it a 'math game'. Although I suspect this was to get her to stop bothering him.

CarpeGuitarrem
2014-04-24, 09:44 AM
Me: I played d&d last night
Them: did you win?
Me: no, it's a team game and besides, I'm the DM
Them: DM?
Me: Dungeon Master, I sort of control the other people and enemies
Them: so it's the whole team vs. you?
Me: a little bit like that, yes
Them: isn't that unfair?
Me: not really, they're 3 or 4 characters, I'm everyone else in the game world
Them: oh..... isn't THAT unfair?
Me: -.-
To be fair, that's a valid point. :smalltongue:

BeholdenCaulf
2014-04-24, 10:05 AM
To be fair, that's a valid point. :smalltongue:
Haha only if you're one of THOSE DMs that see it as their goal to kill the players and therefore "win"

The closest I've ever come to unfair DMing was when I realised I wasn't targeting my Ranger PC enough in battle so battle after battle he just stood there nerfing everything with all his ranged attack feats so I subtly tried to increase his enemy heat, particularly from intelligent opponents, needless to say he was rather peeved.

He was by far my smartest and most tactically aware PC as well, I thought he'd relish the opportunity to actually use his head.

BrokenChord
2014-04-24, 10:12 AM
Kind of off-topic, but the worst thing is when your group is trying something weird and unusual for the game for silliness/variety/whatever and a non-gamer walks in and thinks that's the norm.

"Alright! You passed your Rebuking check and the hippo is now under your control! Oh, hey Dave... Didn't see you there..."

"Okay, the rubber-clad ogre dominatrix begins whipping you, roll Will to resist becoming more lawful and obedient... Uh, wait, no, mom, this really isn't what we do every week!"

Inevitability
2014-04-24, 10:24 AM
-Not all people with higher-than-average intelligence play D&D.

Let me explain:

I was at the house of an acquaintance this afternoon (I needed something), who was watching a movie with some friends. While she went of to get what I needed, I chatted a bit with her friends. Eventually, they heard that I'm doing some kind of high-level course. Remember, they knew nothing about me playing D&D at that point.

First reaction: 'Do you LARP?'

Wut. :smallconfused:

I just couldn't wrap my mind around the idea that everyone who's smart apparently dresses up as a wizard every weekend. Why would someone think that?
Fortunately, the acquaintance just got back again, so I said goodbye and went home.

Of course, the funny part was that they were pretty close. I do play D&D, I just don't LARP.

Brookshw
2014-04-24, 10:31 AM
Why we have/need so many books.

CarpeGuitarrem
2014-04-24, 10:46 AM
Why we have/need so many books.
Some of us gamers still don't understand this one. :smallwink:

BeholdenCaulf
2014-04-24, 11:25 AM
Some of us gamers still don't understand this one. :smallwink:
This.

Sometimes my mind boggles that we (myself included) continue to pay so much money for someone else's makebelieve.

But I suppose that's true with any book.

jedipotter
2014-04-24, 11:50 AM
You can do whatever is reasonably possible to accomplish. You do not need to look at an actions list on your character sheet.


Again this is funny as a lot of gamers don't even understand this one.

BeholdenCaulf
2014-04-24, 12:39 PM
How a dice can have 20 sides

When you show them they are usually underwhelmed

DigoDragon
2014-04-24, 06:18 PM
A friend of mine answered his niece's questions about the subject by calling it a 'math game'. Although I suspect this was to get her to stop bothering him.

I created a guest comic not long ago where the DM's little sister asked what kind of game everyone was playing, and one player said it was 'Death by Numbers'. ;)
One thing I've noticed about non-roleplayers around me is that they don't quite grasp that the math used in these game systems is the same kind of math used everywhere else. :smallbiggrin:

Fiery Diamond
2014-04-24, 07:25 PM
I created a guest comic not long ago where the DM's little sister asked what kind of game everyone was playing, and one player said it was 'Death by Numbers'. ;)
One thing I've noticed about non-roleplayers around me is that they don't quite grasp that the math used in these game systems is the same kind of math used everywhere else. :smallbiggrin:

Same math used everywhere else? That depends. I know both teens and middle-aged adults who have to pull out calculators to do basic arithmetic. It hurts to watch. By basic arithmetic I mean "This customer wants to write their check for $25 over the amount they owe to get cash back. They owe $103.57. Hey, Fiery Diamond, you're smart, what would that be?" This would be the cashier asking that question. As I said, it hurts to watch, and listen, and even be aware that people are that stupid. I'm pretty sure to people like that, the amount of math in D&D would be like taking a math class.

Slipperychicken
2014-04-24, 07:30 PM
One thing I've noticed about non-roleplayers around me is that they don't quite grasp that the math used in these game systems is the same kind of math used everywhere else. :smallbiggrin:

It seems to me (judging from other players' confusion on the matter) that it's really hard to remember which numbers are used to compute attack bonuses and AC. Or to remember when these numbers have already been computed for them.

But yeah, the math required to properly fill out a dnd character is probably equivalent to an introductory algebra exam.

ddude987
2014-04-24, 07:57 PM
Let's see, things I get asked when I talk about TTRPGs...
Also people don't seem to get that gaming from 4PM to 9PM is a "short" session.


Five hours? Man, I wish I had your free time.

I feel bad you don't have free time, my groups sessions are usually 12 hours long, with a dinner break and a few other breaks in there somewhere, every week. We also meet for a different DMs (ME :D) campaign for 6 hours or so every week.


I created a guest comic not long ago where the DM's little sister asked what kind of game everyone was playing, and one player said it was 'Death by Numbers'. ;)


Digo is a genius once again!

INDYSTAR188
2014-04-24, 08:27 PM
I feel bad you don't have free time, my groups sessions are usually 12 hours long, with a dinner break and a few other breaks in there somewhere, every week. We also meet for a different DMs (ME :D) campaign for 6 hours or so every week.



Digo is a genius once again!

I would feel bad for my wife, who would have to do all of the partenting/house stuff while I was gone. I bet that is a rediculous amount of fun though.

Sylthia
2014-04-24, 11:02 PM
I can't speak for all systems, but the math became a lot easier once they got rid of THAC0.

huttj509
2014-04-25, 12:38 AM
I can't speak for all systems, but the math became a lot easier once they got rid of THAC0.

The math was the same (just shifted to the other side of the equation), but what was then aligned was the linguistic connotations of "positive good, negative bad." "This effect lowers my AC, so it's good" threw people off, even though it worked fine mathematically.

toapat
2014-04-25, 12:53 AM
All RPGs are not D&D. We can play a RPG that doesn't involve killing orcs with swords.
The point of a RPG is to take actions yourself and have them affect the game. You don't need to be told to go somewhere before you can go there.
You can do whatever is reasonably possible to accomplish. You do not need to look at an actions list on your character sheet.


the real problem is that:

No version of DnD is an inherently robust system other then 4th (which is, at least from reading these forums, less conducive to roleplaying then the other versions)
DnD existed earlier then anything else.
not capable of depicting highly lethal combat efficiently.

there really isnt anything in any version of DnD you cant pick apart.

The other problem is basically up until Bioware made Mass Effect people thought of RPGs as being Fantasy games. Even though you can cover a good chunk of the games with the genres of Medieval fantasy (DnD), Modern Fantasy (WoD), and Science Fiction (Shadowrun, Paranoia), there will always be outliers because you have exotic rarities like Bunnies and burrows.

NikitaDarkstar
2014-04-25, 02:34 AM
Same math used everywhere else? That depends. I know both teens and middle-aged adults who have to pull out calculators to do basic arithmetic. It hurts to watch. By basic arithmetic I mean "This customer wants to write their check for $25 over the amount they owe to get cash back. They owe $103.57. Hey, Fiery Diamond, you're smart, what would that be?" This would be the cashier asking that question. As I said, it hurts to watch, and listen, and even be aware that people are that stupid. I'm pretty sure to people like that, the amount of math in D&D would be like taking a math class.

I happen to be one of those people (dyscalculia, the bastard sibling of dyslexia) and you know what? Yes I'd pull out my calculator to solve the cash back problem, just to be sure I got my numbers right, and yes I pull it out quite a bit for D&D (things like doing equipment, it helps keep track of how much gold is spent and left to spend), and I usually have a crap-ton of notes to make sure everything is in order. But unless you're using fractional rules D&D is all about whole numbers, and just adding or subtracting at that. It's not that bad, and it sure as heck isn't as boring as a math class, but basic math would have been a lot more fun if we had learned it using D&D! :p (Okay I admit, it took me a long time to learn to do my weapons properly, cause the sheer amount of numbers that gets listed in a row once you start getting iterative attacks was enough to make my brain go "Nope!" and shut down for a good year or so).

So for my own little pet peeve about things non-roleplayers don't understand: The fact that there actually are rules to govern things.
"Why do you need those expensive books? Isn't it just make-believe?"
"Yes, to a degree, but there's also rules to tell you what you reasonably can and can't do, and predict the outcomes of your actions."
"Well wouldn't it be more fun without them then?"
"....."

Krazzman
2014-04-25, 04:25 AM
I also got my share of "Roleplay? That's the sexual thing, isn't it?" which was in a conversation about me currently playing Final Fantasy 8...

We had some non-gamers around us.
The Girlfriend of one of our players wanted to know what it is we do.
And the wife of a current member of our group were present for some sessions but seems not really interrested in it.

Else most friends or people I talk to have either no idea but get it quite fast or already some rough idea.
I might have to make it a major point that it is without a PC.

GPuzzle
2014-04-25, 04:36 AM
the real problem is that:

No version of DnD is an inherently robust system other then 4th (which is, at least from reading these forums, less conducive to roleplaying then the other versions)
DnD existed earlier then anything else.
not capable of depicting highly lethal combat efficiently.

there really isnt anything in any version of DnD you cant pick apart.

The other problem is basically up until Bioware made Mass Effect people thought of RPGs as being Fantasy games. Even though you can cover a good chunk of the games with the genres of Medieval fantasy (DnD), Modern Fantasy (WoD), and Science Fiction (Shadowrun, Paranoia), there will always be outliers because you have exotic rarities like Bunnies and burrows.

Okay, 4e has a different approach to RPGs. It focused on cinematic combat, which has a lot of freedom on just deciding what you do, how you channel the forces you're using, while throwing fluff pieces here and there in the EDs and PPs. Its skill system, in comparison to 3.5, is minimal, so there is a lot more freedom. Unfortunately, since the game is tighter in combat, resembling a board game, people thought it was tighter in roleplay as well. It just doesn't directly encourage out-of-combat roleplay (in-combat, though, they do - it is mentioned at the start of the PHB2).

Also, I think Earthbound came before Mass Effect.:smallamused:

BWR
2014-04-25, 06:42 AM
The math was the same (just shifted to the other side of the equation), but what was then aligned was the linguistic connotations of "positive good, negative bad." "This effect lowers my AC, so it's good" threw people off, even though it worked fine mathematically.

If people think it's easier, isn't it easier?

DigoDragon
2014-04-25, 08:28 AM
Same math used everywhere else? That depends. I know both teens and middle-aged adults who have to pull out calculators to do basic arithmetic.

Well, I mean that the basic operations with the numbers are the same (addition, subtraction, division, multiplication) and usually follow the same order (Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally).

Interesting tangent: In GURPS, calculating the damage for a collision is basically (HP of object) x (velocity of object) / 100 = dice of damage inflicted.
HP can represent the mass of objects in GURPS, so essentially collision damage is calculating the object's momentum.



Digo is a genius once again!

Aww, thank you. I'd like to add that to my quote list if you don't mind. :smallbiggrin:



I would feel bad for my wife, who would have to do all of the partenting/house stuff while I was gone.

I generally take care of all the house chores in the morning before the session and my daughter is usually along for the ride. Can't be up too late though. Daughter has an earlier bed time than I. :3

Spacebatsy
2014-04-25, 09:24 AM
I think what really brings me down is not the ones that have no clue whatsoever. But the ones who’ve gotten the twisted and degrading view from media and hearsay and have an irreversible belief that we all are a bunch of losers with no friends, no plans for the future who group together and pretend to be wizards instead of doing something with our lives.
And that this is somehow contagious.

Role playing is an escape from reality, yes, but so are movies, books, sport, drinking or whatever these “normal” people do in their spare time. I’m just sick of the notion that my choice of hobby somehow makes me a lesser person.
It’s not like you get “She plays football EVERY week! Why doesn’t she do something useful like learning Spanish instead of chasing a ball around a field? No wonder she doesn’t have a boyfriend” a lot

toapat
2014-04-25, 09:57 AM
Okay, 4e has a different approach to RPGs. It focused on cinematic combat, which has a lot of freedom on just deciding what you do, how you channel the forces you're using, while throwing fluff pieces here and there in the EDs and PPs. Its skill system, in comparison to 3.5, is minimal, so there is a lot more freedom. Unfortunately, since the game is tighter in combat, resembling a board game, people thought it was tighter in roleplay as well. It just doesn't directly encourage out-of-combat roleplay (in-combat, though, they do - it is mentioned at the start of the PHB2).

Also, I think Earthbound came before Mass Effect.:smallamused:

On one hand, the Skillsystem in 3rd is bad
on the other, it gives a better idea of who your character is

the reason fourth is worse off for roleplaying despite being less restrictive is it just makes it harder to determine who your character is. Once you have that character though, the roleplaying should be as good as anywhere else, if not better then 3rd because the skillsystem is more open ended and thus less restrictive with that


earthbound maybe for introducing non-tabletop gamers to non-fantasy RPGs, but its not like how Mass Effect really hit it big. It wasnt "Something Different" but "Piercing the Veil" that was relevant.

evil-frosty
2014-04-25, 10:14 AM
In seventh grade I was a student that the material came to very easily, so I found myself with a lot of free time during the day. One day I decided to bring my monster manual to school to help me fill out a dungeon I had drawn the day before. The teacher saw it, took it from me and proceeded to open it directly to the devils/demons section, specifically the 3.5 succubus picture. I was called a satanist in seventh grade. It didn't help I went to a Catholic grade school.

That misconception is still strong out there in some people. It makes me sad. :smallfrown:

arcane_asp
2014-04-25, 11:17 AM
One thing I hear a lot:

"How can you be a Dungeon Master? No one can do that, it's like running another universe in your head"

To which I reply "Yes. Yes it is. I'm a god."

(I then describe it as being more life a referee or narrator when the fear/contempt fades from their face)

CarpeGuitarrem
2014-04-25, 11:23 AM
One thing I hear a lot:

"How can you be a Dungeon Master? No one can do that, it's like running another universe in your head"

Brandon Sanderson says "hi".

Sylthia
2014-04-25, 03:32 PM
I also got my share of "Roleplay? That's the sexual thing, isn't it?" which was in a conversation about me currently playing Final Fantasy 8...



That's why I tend to just say DnD instead of roleplay, even if the game is something else. Heck, I haven't played brand name DnD since 2010.

While on the subject Fantasy also tends to have sexual connotations. I really wish there was a synonym for it.

toapat
2014-04-25, 04:03 PM
That's why I tend to just say DnD instead of roleplay, even if the game is something else. Heck, I haven't played brand name DnD since 2010.

While on the subject Fantasy also tends to have sexual connotations. I really wish there was a synonym for it.

it depends on the level of abstraction you want on the genre. Supernatural is the only term which doesnt have some other meaning but still applies to things like DnD, but excludes lesser magic settings like Conan and LotR, which are more along the lines of Medieval fiction, and then you ignore the fact that there is an entire group of settings under the term Future Fantasy such as Shadowrun and Starwars.

GPuzzle
2014-04-25, 06:18 PM
it depends on the level of abstraction you want on the genre. Supernatural is the only term which doesnt have some other meaning but still applies to things like DnD, but excludes lesser magic settings like Conan and LotR, which are more along the lines of Medieval fiction, and then you ignore the fact that there is an entire group of settings under the term Future Fantasy such as Shadowrun and Starwars.

Uhm, exclude a ton of genres from the setting or make people think you're a f*cked up pervert? Which is worse?

Kid Jake
2014-04-25, 06:32 PM
Uhm, exclude a ton of genres from the setting or make people think you're a f*cked up pervert? Which is worse?

I'm gonna go with excluding genres. There's not much I can do to convince people I'm not a pervert, but I can at least strive to be an accurate pervert.

Honest Tiefling
2014-04-25, 06:52 PM
No, I will not light the inn on fire and steal everything inside. It's not that type of game. My parents give crap suggestions on what to do in-game. (But at least they understand it, sorta). I do however, advise to NEVER EVER try to explain alignments to non-RPers. Just no.

BrokenChord
2014-04-25, 06:59 PM
No, I will not light the inn on fire and steal everything inside. It's not that type of game. My parents give crap suggestions on what to do in-game. (But at least they understand it, sorta). I do however, advise to NEVER EVER try to explain alignments to non-RPers. Just no.

More like don't try to explain alignment to non-D&D'ers. Really.

CarpeGuitarrem
2014-04-25, 07:00 PM
While on the subject Fantasy also tends to have sexual connotations. I really wish there was a synonym for it.
Nah. I think it's becoming more and more understood that "fantasy" definitely can (and usually does) mean something else.

NikitaDarkstar
2014-04-25, 08:22 PM
More like don't try to explain alignment to non-D&D'ers. Really.

And while we're at it, don't try to have a civil conversation about it with D&D'ers. It just won't end well.

BrokenChord
2014-04-25, 08:29 PM
And while we're at it, don't try to have a civil conversation about it with D&D'ers. It just won't end well.

Hey, now, that's kinda harsh. Sure, it's a bad idea to start such a discussion on a popular message board like this one, because, well, it's a controversial issue combined with the internet. Stupid, confrontational people are drawn like flies. But there are plenty of people who discuss this very reasonably, civilly, and intelligently.

I am SO not one of those people, but it's an extremely false stereotype nonetheless.

toapat
2014-04-25, 09:20 PM
about the only person in the world who needs to know anything about Alignment in DnD is an Artillery Commander, and the only thing they need to know is the co-ordinates to shell it with metallic rain.

Honest Tiefling
2014-04-25, 09:36 PM
And while we're at it, don't try to have a civil conversation about it with D&D'ers. It just won't end well.

I do have to wonder if banging one's (own) head against a wall is a violation of civil conversation. Because that would be my own reaction to it.

NikitaDarkstar
2014-04-25, 09:48 PM
about the only person in the world who needs to know anything about Alignment in DnD is an Artillery Commander, and the only thing they need to know is the co-ordinates to shell it with metallic rain.
That is the most sensible thing I have ever heard when it comes to alignments.

Sadly it also looks like I'm going to have to start to remember to use blue. Cause sarcastic humor in a semi-humorous discussion is appereantly undetectable otherwise.

Honest Tiefling
2014-04-25, 09:52 PM
To be fair, I am sure that certain DnDers hate alignment arguments as much if not even more so then you.

toapat
2014-04-25, 09:58 PM
I do have to wonder if banging one's (own) head against a wall is a violation of civil conversation. Because that would be my own reaction to it.

i think it technically is in violation

either way the good - evil axis is moreso debated on 2 factors: how much should relative morality play into it (IE: Killing Stalin before he causes the deaths of millions at least within the defined rules is purely evil.) and exactly how self obsessive evil is with getting its own way, others be damned.

Its Law/Chaos which is wholly useless, because as defined Law uses the same general terms as good, while chaos is moreso described as opposite Civil Order, which in reality is very orderly, and Order/law is opposite chaos

NikitaDarkstar
2014-04-26, 01:06 AM
To be fair, I am sure that certain DnDers hate alignment arguments as much if not even more so then you.

Of course, I mean no matter how bad you get there's always someone who's worse. :D

Also, sorry to anyone who took offense at my previous post, it was a bit more passive-aggressive than intended, so sorry for that.

Things non-roleplayers don't understand: That there are things more painful than stepping on LEGOs, namely stepping on that d4 you lost during the last weekends game session. :p

Honest Tiefling
2014-04-26, 01:09 AM
Or why the cat really needs to learn not to go on the table...

LokiRagnarok
2014-04-26, 01:56 AM
How a dice can have 20 sides

When you show them they are usually underwhelmed

Neat fact: the dice usually used in DnD are the platonic solids (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic_solid) (except the d10).

NikitaDarkstar
2014-04-26, 03:00 AM
Or why the cat really needs to learn not to go on the table...

Which leads to the jokes/curses about the common housecat which confuses the non-D&D'ers (or non-roleplayers... I think that one is a common enough joke for most RPers to get it?) even more.

Honest Tiefling
2014-04-26, 05:19 AM
Or why the DM does not want to hear about requests to summon said cat to fight for them after knocking over the entire battlefield. Oddly, no one has asked to kill it for EXP yet.

DigoDragon
2014-04-26, 07:45 AM
And while we're at it, don't try to have a civil conversation about it with D&D'ers. It just won't end well.

It says something that the civility of my alignment discussions have been inversely proportional to the other person's familiarity to D&D. :smallbiggrin:

Sylthia
2014-04-26, 09:25 AM
Or why the DM does not want to hear about requests to summon said cat to fight for them after knocking over the entire battlefield. Oddly, no one has asked to kill it for EXP yet.

My group has. It's funny when a giant cat appears and tries to eat our party Druid.

Vrock_Summoner
2014-04-26, 09:31 AM
Or why the DM does not want to hear about requests to summon said cat to fight for them after knocking over the entire battlefield. Oddly, no one has asked to kill it for EXP yet.

Stolen from somewhere else, but:

*kitten starts knocking around mini*
DM: The... Tarrasque... Full attacks the Cleric.
Cleric: Full attack my ass, that's just two claw attacks!
*kitten starts gnawing on mini*
Cleric: ... Or not.

Dorian Gray
2014-04-26, 10:49 PM
i think it technically is in violation

either way the good - evil axis is moreso debated on 2 factors: how much should relative morality play into it (IE: Killing Stalin before he causes the deaths of millions at least within the defined rules is purely evil.) and exactly how self obsessive evil is with getting its own way, others be damned.

Its Law/Chaos which is wholly useless, because as defined Law uses the same general terms as good, while chaos is moreso described as opposite Civil Order, which in reality is very orderly, and Order/law is opposite chaos

Oh sure, leave it to the chaotic player to disparage the established system!
But on topic- the notion that I am not my character is actually a hard concept for some people. As in, "Why would you do that? It's so violent- couldn't you have just tried to talk?"

toapat
2014-04-27, 12:02 AM
Stolen from somewhere else, but:

*kitten starts knocking around mini*
DM: The... Tarrasque... Full attacks the Cleric.
Cleric: Full attack my ass, that's just two claw attacks!
*kitten starts gnawing on mini*
Cleric: ... Or not.

That cleric apparently doesnt have the tarrasque memorized. It would have to full attack in order to use its claw attacks


Oh sure, leave it to the chaotic player to disparage the established system!

im pretty certain im a second level paladin IRL.

Either way, i think the artillery commander comment is still more accurate. The Why it deserves to bathe in hellfire is less important then the Bathing in hellfire

~xFellWardenx~
2014-04-27, 12:41 AM
im pretty certain im a second level paladin IRL.

Woah... Can you show me Lay on Hands!? Oh, oh, does your weapon glow when you Smite Evil, hey, is that guy Evil!?

:smallbiggrin: Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Prince Raven
2014-04-27, 01:58 AM
Several times I've had to explain that even though the GM controls the bad guys, RPGs are not vs. the GM, everyone at the table, including the GM, co-operatively creates the story. It hasn't always been non-RPG players I've explained this to either...

toapat
2014-04-27, 09:37 AM
Woah... Can you show me Lay on Hands!? Oh, oh, does your weapon glow when you Smite Evil, hey, is that guy Evil!?

:smallbiggrin: Sorry, couldn't help myself.

correction: Third level, i forget that Aura of courage is not second level. But i have some ACF that replaces Divine health.

I havent figured out how to use LoH.

Hyena
2014-04-27, 09:39 AM
- Dungeons and Dragons? Is that, like, a computer game?
- No, it's... uh, tabletop.
- So, like monopoly?
- No, it's like five or six guys creating a story together while using dice to determine what turns it takes.
- ...have you tried having a life?

Cikomyr
2014-04-27, 10:10 AM
- Dungeons and Dragons? Is that, like, a computer game?
- No, it's... uh, tabletop.
- So, like monopoly?
- No, it's like five or six guys creating a story together while using dice to determine what turns it takes.
- ...have you tried having a life?

"Wanna talk about your Fantasy Football team, then?"
"Wanna talk about your favourite TV show, then?"
"Wanna talk about celebrity gossip, then?"

People a hypocrites.

~xFellWardenx~
2014-04-27, 10:59 AM
"Wanna talk about your Fantasy Football team, then?"
"Wanna talk about your favourite TV show, then?"
"Wanna talk about celebrity gossip, then?"

People a hypocrites.

"But tabletop gaming seems too mentally involving! That's, like, way yuck and so totally not in the treamsay ainmay!"

toapat
2014-04-27, 11:15 AM
"But tabletop gaming seems too mentally involving! That's, like, way yuck and so totally not in the treamsay ainmay!"

at least from my experience, Fantasy Sports consists of the poeple who arent worth socializing with.

TV has the full spectrum of mental intensiveness, from simpleminded drivel like was spawned from Reality TV (not American Chopper Pre-Split), to incredibly intricate stories like Arrested Development, with most falling somewhere inbetween. Personally im happy the current fad is to one up Walking Dead and/or Game of Thrones for quality of writing.

i dont get why people obsess over celebrities.

Kid Jake
2014-04-27, 12:20 PM
i dont get why people obsess over celebrities.

When you and all of your friends follow your neighbor's day to day life you're called stalkers and ordered to stay at least 500ft from the premises at all times. When you and your friends all follow a celebrity's day to day life you're called fans and don't have to hide your conversations from the police. Some people are just voyeurs at heart; I figure whatever keeps them out of my trash is a good thing.

Grim Portent
2014-04-27, 12:31 PM
Most of the people I've met haven't really had any preconceptions about RPing, though a few of the people I've met over the preceding year at uni conflated all of us with the LARPers running around the grounds with their prop weapons. They seemed to get the difference quite easily though once explained.

Sylthia
2014-05-02, 10:26 AM
To go with the nerd stereotype of table top gaming, some think that only guys who never get laid play pen and paper RPGs. It's a pretty diverse crowd. I actually met my wife through my gaming group. My friend's brother brought her along.

Cikomyr
2014-05-02, 11:17 AM
"But tabletop gaming seems too mentally involving! That's, like, way yuck and so totally not in the treamsay ainmay!"

As someone who was in a Hockey Fantasy league (yes, because I only care about hockey and don't know enough about other sports to play), I can say that a Fantasy League is so damn much more involved than tabletop gaming.

Problem with Fantasy League is that you have to make day-to-day decisions (at least, for Hockey, since games are played daily). It's competitive, not relaxing.

Tabletop RPG? Bah. I can just roll up and show up at my weekly game without worrying about it and still have a great time.

Sylthia
2014-05-02, 02:48 PM
As someone who was in a Hockey Fantasy league (yes, because I only care about hockey and don't know enough about other sports to play), I can say that a Fantasy League is so damn much more involved than tabletop gaming.

Problem with Fantasy League is that you have to make day-to-day decisions (at least, for Hockey, since games are played daily). It's competitive, not relaxing.

Tabletop RPG? Bah. I can just roll up and show up at my weekly game without worrying about it and still have a great time.

In a similar vein, I'm a big baseball fan and some friends have tried to get me to join their fantasy league on more than one occasion, but I've got a bit too much on my plate already.

Jjeinn-tae
2014-05-03, 04:45 PM
"Why do you need to spend so much time preparing?"

DMing takes a lot of time. It's like writing a novel without having an exact idea of what the protagonists will do in any situation... :smalltongue:

BrokenChord
2014-05-03, 07:18 PM
"Why do you need to spend so much time preparing?"

DMing takes a lot of time. It's like writing a novel without having an exact idea of what the protagonists will do in any situation... :smalltongue:

Add in that the second you give them a potential path to walk down they assume you'll be putting electric fences up around it and get mad at you because of it, and you have a veritable hell.

Knaight
2014-05-03, 08:13 PM
"Why do you need to spend so much time preparing?"

Honestly, I mostly GM, and I still don't understand this - mostly because I fall very far to the improv end of the spectrum, and might spend fifteen minutes preparing. For a campaign.

Jjeinn-tae
2014-05-03, 08:25 PM
Add in that the second you give them a potential path to walk down they assume you'll be putting electric fences up around it and get mad at you because of it, and you have a veritable hell.

Even when your fence is much wider than that, they still have quite the knack at taking adamantine wire cutters to it.


Honestly, I mostly GM, and I still don't understand this - mostly because I fall very far to the improv end of the spectrum, and might spend fifteen minutes preparing. For a campaign.

My first couple games were improv, I'd say they went over decently well (although, they tend to drift straight to ridiculously silly very quickly). The high prep-time just meshes well with my liking to obsess over every minute detail. :smalltongue:

Prince Raven
2014-05-03, 09:02 PM
Most of my games are improv, not because I don't prepare, but because my players do something I wasn't prepared for nearly every single time. This occurs so frequently that I only barely prepare anything but the most important encounters.

A_Man
2014-05-03, 10:27 PM
In my years of playing tabletop RPGs, mostly DnD, I've noticed a few common misconceptions. Feel free to add your own, while being civil. It's not us vs them.

Most common, people don't seem to understand that DnD is a co-op game, or is meant to be. Directly tied to that, you don't really "win" DnD.

Colleague: What did you do this weekend?
Me: I played some DnD with my friends.
Colleague: Oh, did you win?


Ha ha, that misconception seems to have found it's place with a few roleplayers I know. It's a pain to RP with them. XD

BWR
2014-05-04, 01:25 AM
Sure you can win. Once the BBEG is defeated and the victorious PCs are returning home with more loot than they can carry and will live happily ever after, you've won. Ending the campaign may not necessarily be because of a win but it is certainly possible.

What's worse is people who wonder why it takes so long to finish that weird game. It's been years and they are still doing it.

Neli42
2014-05-04, 06:13 PM
Campaigns end in much the same way a life ends. D&D ends in much the same way reality ends.

Except I think I'd cry more over D&D, since I'd still exist to do so.

I have wept for dead characters. I think when you invest so much into them they become an expression of you or some part of you, so it's hard to see them go.

And that's DEFINITELY something non-RPG-ers wouldn't understand

BWR
2014-05-04, 06:24 PM
I have wept for dead characters. I think when you invest so much into them they become an expression of you or some part of you, so it's hard to see them go.

And that's DEFINITELY something non-RPG-ers wouldn't understand

Just explain that it's no different from becoming emotionally attached to a character in a book, tv series or movie, just that instead of someone else doing the writing, you (and your friends) are.

Slipperychicken
2014-05-04, 06:48 PM
I have wept for dead characters. I think when you invest so much into them they become an expression of you or some part of you, so it's hard to see them go.

And that's DEFINITELY something non-RPG-ers wouldn't understand

Jack Chick seems to understand pretty well.

http://media.chick.com/tractimages67491/0046/0046_03.gif

Neli42
2014-05-04, 08:01 PM
Jack Chick seems to understand pretty well.

Ah, paranoid hyperbole. My favorite.


Just explain that it's no different from becoming emotionally attached to a character in a book, tv series or movie, just that instead of someone else doing the writing, you (and your friends) are.

That's a great way to look at it. Quite relatable.

137beth
2014-05-07, 05:23 PM
Several times I've had to explain that even though the GM controls the bad guys, RPGs are not vs. the GM, everyone at the table, including the GM, co-operatively creates the story. It hasn't always been non-RPG players I've explained this to either...
I haven't encountered many RPG players IRL who get confused over that point...
I have encountered other RPG players on other forums (not GitP) who think of the game in GM vs players:smallsigh:

MrNobody
2014-05-07, 05:54 PM
I have wept for dead characters. I think when you invest so much into them they become an expression of you or some part of you, so it's hard to see them go.

And that's DEFINITELY something non-RPG-ers wouldn't understand

And the same goes for DMs and their campaign. When a campaign is over you feel so full and yet so empty, like you achieved something great that, however, already belongs to the past.
In general, the emotional bond with the game (or, better, with an experience you built with your friends) is hard to explain.

Vrock_Summoner
2014-05-07, 06:27 PM
Sure you can win. Once the BBEG is defeated and the victorious PCs are returning home with more loot than they can carry and will live happily ever after, you've won. Ending the campaign may not necessarily be because of a win but it is certainly possible.

What's worse is people who wonder why it takes so long to finish that weird game. It's been years and they are still doing it.

I think that scope is too limited. You've "won" if you all had fun, there's something to be remembered, and a good story was told. For some people (though it's not a large number) winning includes, among other things of course, getting TPKed while doing a random encounter on dragonback towards the final boss.

For some, "losing" is just another form of winning. Losing all your loot and being exiled at the hands of the NPC adventurers who have come to stop your tyranny is winning for some. Political assassinations... Well, as long as you get to fight back or make a save or something, or else your DM is a jerk, but that can be winning too.

That's something almost nobody gets unless they've been in that kind of game before. Especially non-RPers.

Sylthia
2014-05-08, 11:28 AM
I think that scope is too limited. You've "won" if you all had fun, there's something to be remembered, and a good story was told. For some people (though it's not a large number) winning includes, among other things of course, getting TPKed while doing a random encounter on dragonback towards the final boss.

For some, "losing" is just another form of winning. Losing all your loot and being exiled at the hands of the NPC adventurers who have come to stop your tyranny is winning for some. Political assassinations... Well, as long as you get to fight back or make a save or something, or else your DM is a jerk, but that can be winning too.

That's something almost nobody gets unless they've been in that kind of game before. Especially non-RPers.

Some of my most memorable sessions have been where almost everything goes wrong, but we all had fun, so I guess that is a form of "win".

FabulousFizban
2014-05-08, 04:22 PM
I was talking to a friend about d&d and a girl near us asked me what it was. I told her it was a roleplaying game played with usually 4 other people, and sketched out some basics. When I finished her jaw just about hit the floor. "You do that with 4 people? Like 4 guys?" She thought I meant sex-roleplay. That was a fun conversation.

Delwugor
2014-05-08, 04:32 PM
I'm in a Rise of the Runelords campaign, so far.

We've had a session where we totally discredit the sheriff and the mayor temporarily approved us to take over the guard for our investigation. We were laughing at how all of that worked out.
Couple of sessions later we killed the quazit and destroyed the runewell. Afterwards we were laughing and high-fiving ourselves.
Next session we forgot to check the rope bridge for traps and got dunked into the river, lucky that no one died. Went back to town with our heads hung down. At the end of that sessions we were once again laughing how miserably we had failed and still high-fives, of the doooh kind.

This is the best example of what I consider winning in any RPG.

Sylthia
2014-05-26, 12:29 PM
This subject reminds me of this skit, talking about the evils of D&D by the Dead Ale Wives

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kgx2b1sIRs

Jay R
2014-05-26, 08:38 PM
I find it a lot easier to explain role-playing to people who don't know about D&D than explaining the infield fly rule to people who don't know baseball, or leg-before-wicket to people who don't know cricket.

[I once defined "cosmopolitan" as the quality of understanding both the infield fly rule and leg-before-wicket.]

Hyena
2014-05-27, 12:38 AM
I was talking to a friend about d&d and a girl near us asked me what it was. I told her it was a roleplaying game played with usually 4 other people, and sketched out some basics. When I finished her jaw just about hit the floor. "You do that with 4 people? Like 4 guys?" She thought I meant sex-roleplay. That was a fun conversation.


Oh yes, I was in the same situation - though it took me days to realize it. Was pretty awkward.

1of3
2014-05-27, 12:53 AM
I find it a lot easier to explain role-playing to people who don't know about D&D than explaining the infield fly rule to people who don't know baseball, or leg-before-wicket to people who don't know cricket.

[I once defined "cosmopolitan" as the quality of understanding both the infield fly rule and leg-before-wicket.]

That's a bit of stretch though. Those rules are very specific. It's certainly easier to give people a general idea of baseball, then explaining grappling with three opponents.

Sliver
2014-05-27, 03:38 AM
I find it a lot easier to explain role-playing to people who don't know about D&D than explaining the infield fly rule to people who don't know baseball, or leg-before-wicket to people who don't know cricket.

[I once defined "cosmopolitan" as the quality of understanding both the infield fly rule and leg-before-wicket.]

DnD is to roleplaying what baseball is to sports. Your comparison isn't really valid.

Terraoblivion
2014-05-27, 04:37 PM
DnD is to roleplaying what baseball is to sports. Your comparison isn't really valid.

So kinda old-fashioned, dropping in popularity and only a thing in two or three countries? :smallwink:

Jay R
2014-05-27, 05:27 PM
DnD is to roleplaying what baseball is to sports.So kinda old-fashioned, dropping in popularity and only a thing in two or three countries? :smallwink:

... and often belittled with unfair mischaracterization by those who don't like it. :smallwink:

Terraoblivion
2014-05-27, 06:45 PM
... and often belittled with unfair mischaracterization by those who don't like it. :smallwink:

I care about as much about baseball as I do about naivist Romanian art, which is to say not one bit. However, baseball is not the big mainstream sport. Football and basketball are both bigger in the US today and only the US, Japan and maybe Canada has baseball as anything but a tiny niche. If you want to present D&D as the big, popular one that everybody knows and has some idea of the game to pick is soccer, literally everybody except Americans cares about it.

Necroticplague
2014-05-27, 07:00 PM
I care about as much about baseball as I do about naivist Romanian art, which is to say not one bit. However, baseball is not the big mainstream sport. Football and basketball are both bigger in the US today and only the US, Japan and maybe Canada has baseball as anything but a tiny niche. If you want to present D&D as the big, popular one that everybody knows and has some idea of the game to pick is soccer, literally everybody except Americans cares about it.

I don't know about that last part, South Americans seem pretty into soccer. Not very big in the u.s, that's for sure.

huttj509
2014-05-27, 07:15 PM
I don't know about that last part, South Americans seem pretty into soccer. Not very big in the u.s, that's for sure.

everyone except americans is what Terraoblivion said.

Terraoblivion
2014-05-27, 07:15 PM
I don't know about that last part, South Americans seem pretty into soccer. Not very big in the u.s, that's for sure.

Americans without specifying usually means people from the US, especially since there isn't an alternate term.

Brazil, obviously being in the Americas, is the world's premier soccer nation and Argentina isn't far behind and you almost always see several other South American teams in any given world cup.

GPuzzle
2014-05-27, 07:27 PM
>world's premier soccer nation

lolwut

Brazilian speaking here, yes, we do love football, but we aren't that good at it (the World Cup's gonna suck for everyone but the politicians). There are much better teams out there.

There's a good deal of handball and volleyball and basketball fans, to be honest, but curiously enough, there's two countries where baseball is more popular than in the US.

Venezuela and Cuba.

The two countries that hate the US the most.

There's a small deal of baseball fans here in Brazil, most descending from Japanese (especially in São Paulo, there's a lot of Japanese descents here), and a fun fact - most that aren't from a country where baseball is "big" are really just huge nerds.

Like me, I actually prefer baseball to football.

Terraoblivion
2014-05-27, 07:42 PM
>world's premier soccer nation

lolwut

Brazilian speaking here, yes, we do love football, but we aren't that good at it (the World Cup's gonna suck for everyone but the politicians). There are much better teams out there.

There are obvious fluctuations over time, but Brazil is the country that has won the world cup the most and one of the ones most frequently found as runner ups. That the team isn't very good at the moment is something that happens to every country, but Brazil has won the most.

GPuzzle
2014-05-27, 07:51 PM
There are obvious fluctuations over time, but Brazil is the country that has won the world cup the most and one of the ones most frequently found as runner ups. That the team isn't very good at the moment is something that happens to every country, but Brazil has won the most.

Yeah, they have. It fluctuates, but lately, we just haven't been able to get through the quarter finals. Besides, the structure here for the World Cup is nearly none. Seriously.

In São Paulo (read: biggest city), there's not even an underground/subway to go to the goddamn stadium! Which is in the far east of the city!

Terraoblivion
2014-05-27, 07:55 PM
Yeah, they have. It fluctuates, but lately, we just haven't been able to get through the quarter finals. Besides, the structure here for the World Cup is nearly none. Seriously.

In São Paulo (read: biggest city), there's not even an underground/subway to go to the goddamn stadium! Which is in the far east of the city!

What does that have to do with anything? The skill of the government in pulling off big infrastructure projects seem to have a very minor relationship with the popularity of the sport in the country. I do know a fair amount about the politics surrounding the Brazilian hosting of the world cup, but they're not really relevant to what anybody was saying.

nedz
2014-05-27, 09:49 PM
I find it a lot easier to explain role-playing to people who don't know about D&D than explaining the infield fly rule to people who don't know baseball, or leg-before-wicket to people who don't know cricket.

[I once defined "cosmopolitan" as the quality of understanding both the infield fly rule and leg-before-wicket.]

I think that's a definition of Jamaican, since those two sports are very popular in the West Indies but almost nowhere else (both those sports that is).

Sliver
2014-05-28, 01:44 AM
Hey, I only used baseball because it was already out there, not to compare it to D&D. You can return to the topic now.

Jay R
2014-05-28, 10:54 AM
If you want to present D&D as the big, popular one that everybody knows ...

I don't. Popularity had nothing to do with anything I said. I referred to two abstruse rules that make no sense to people who don't know the game.

And I was contrasting them, not equating them. Everyone was talking about how difficult it was to explain it. I was pointing out that this difficulty is not unique to D&D, by stating that it's easier to explain D&D than the infield fly rule or leg before wicket than D&D.

The only thing that makes D&D hard to explain is using the word "roleplaying," which means something totally different to all non-gamers. Don't call it role-playing. Tell them that you play a table-top game using dice to to determine how well your fighter does in a battle.

Terraoblivion
2014-05-28, 12:23 PM
I wasn't referring to your original post, Jay R. My initial post was about the guy who did compare them and then you seemed to get offended by my comment to that guy.

Sylthia
2014-06-01, 02:16 PM
I don't have a big sample size, but quite a few of my group are baseball fans as well. Sometimes we'll have a Cubs game on in the background during our session.

CyberWyld
2014-06-01, 02:41 PM
In my years of playing tabletop RPGs, mostly DnD, I've noticed a few common misconceptions. Feel free to add your own, while being civil. It's not us vs them.

Most common, people don't seem to understand that DnD is a co-op game, or is meant to be. Directly tied to that, you don't really "win" DnD.

Colleague: What did you do this weekend?
Me: I played some DnD with my friends.
Colleague: Oh, did you win?

Not as common, but no role playing games aren't satanic, at least no more than your local theater group doing MacBeth.

I am constantly telling people that you cannot win this game...ever. Don't try. Just enjoy the ride. It's usually a useless effort, but I try. :/

Sylthia
2014-06-03, 12:37 PM
>world's premier soccer nation

lolwut

Brazilian speaking here, yes, we do love football, but we aren't that good at it (the World Cup's gonna suck for everyone but the politicians). There are much better teams out there.

There's a good deal of handball and volleyball and basketball fans, to be honest, but curiously enough, there's two countries where baseball is more popular than in the US.

Venezuela and Cuba.

The two countries that hate the US the most.

There's a small deal of baseball fans here in Brazil, most descending from Japanese (especially in São Paulo, there's a lot of Japanese descents here), and a fun fact - most that aren't from a country where baseball is "big" are really just huge nerds.

Like me, I actually prefer baseball to football.

I think baseball's pretty popular in the Dominican Republic as well. I'm not sure if it's still the case, but a while back I read that it had the highest per capita amount of Major League Baseball players of any country.

Angel Bob
2014-06-03, 01:33 PM
Things most roleplayers don't understand: discussions about sports. ^^

With that in mind, I've never had too much confusion over my gaming. Most people I talk to are nerdy enough to know what it is, or if they aren't, I guess I must explain it well enough to correct any misunderstandings.

Knaight
2014-06-03, 03:30 PM
With that in mind, I've never had too much confusion over my gaming. Most people I talk to are nerdy enough to know what it is, or if they aren't, I guess I must explain it well enough to correct any misunderstandings.

I find that just never mentioning it outside of nerd gatherings pretty much covers things well. It keeps the confusion to an absolute minimum.

SiuiS
2014-06-04, 11:21 AM
Or you use a setting for a quick one shot and never come back to it again. You appear to have a very particular style involving long campaigns which you return to, but that's hardly universal.

That's the meaning of campaign, though. A one shot is not a campaign.

Solamnicknight
2014-06-05, 08:16 AM
My story about a Non-RPer comes from when we game at my one friend's house. We game there along with my house and another friend's house. Anyway, if you think the "Who won?" question gets old, imagine having your friend's father every time he's near the game table ask "Who's winning?" Also he once commented on how weird the game was. Honestly I feel kinda uncomfortable playing D&D at that house since I get the impression that my friend's dad thinks the game is frivolous because there is no winner. :smallsigh:

Svata
2014-06-05, 08:57 AM
"Wait, you're still playing that same game? Didn't you start like a year ago?"

Zombimode
2014-06-05, 09:03 AM
The only thing that makes D&D hard to explain is using the word "roleplaying," which means something totally different to all non-gamers.

If that is true, it is confined to the english language. Or US-english, even.
In german, "Rollenspiel" (which is the equivalent of "roleplay") of course has also the sexual connotation you're thinking of. But this is hardly the only or even the first thing people will think of if they hear the word. Most non-gamers will think of what kids do ("I'm the cop, you're the bandit!") and/or educational/therapeutic roleplaying.

BWR
2014-06-05, 10:36 AM
If that is true, it is confined to the english language. Or US-english, even.
In german, "Rollenspiel" (which is the equivalent of "roleplay") of course has also the sexual connotation you're thinking of. But this is hardly the only or even the first thing people will think of if they hear the word. Most non-gamers will think of what kids do ("I'm the cop, you're the bandit!") and/or educational/therapeutic roleplaying.

Happens in Norway too. We tried to borrow our high school for a mini-con once and just could not get RPGs as opposed to what she knew as 'role playing' through the principle's head.
We gave up because she just couldn't understand it. At all. She kept asking what sort of theme we'd have, like against drugs or bullying and stuff.

Solamnicknight
2014-06-05, 10:37 AM
Also back in high school I was having a discussion about Voldemort from Harry Potter and I said without thinking it through "Yeah, he's pretty terrifying considering he's a lich with seven phylacteries." Of course a got a bunch of thousand mile stares since I was the only one who knew about D&D.:smallannoyed:

WarKitty
2014-06-06, 06:49 AM
I've had a surprising number of people who just don't get the concept of imagination as something adults do. An imagination-based game is, in their minds, a couple of little kids shouting "Bang, you're dead.", "Nu-uh you missed!", "Did not!", "Did too!!!""

Actually, the general idea that pen-and-paper games are something adults can do and enjoy.

On the other side, I remember a professor in college (small school) telling me I should be more involved in social activities. I asked whether D&D counted and got an of course, how could it not? response.

Jay R
2014-06-06, 09:33 AM
"Wait, you're still playing that same game? Didn't you start like a year ago?"

Answer: "D&D isn't like playing a football game, over in sixty minutes. It's like being a football player, and there's always a next season."

Speak to people in language that they understand.

Garimeth
2014-06-06, 10:20 AM
I've had a surprising number of people who just don't get the concept of imagination as something adults do. An imagination-based game is, in their minds, a couple of little kids shouting "Bang, you're dead".

Hell this is what Marines do to rehearse assaults before they go to live-fire...

Eldan
2014-06-11, 12:27 PM
I've had a surprising number of people who just don't get the concept of imagination as something adults do. An imagination-based game is, in their minds, a couple of little kids shouting "Bang, you're dead.", "Nu-uh you missed!", "Did not!", "Did too!!!""

Yeah, that. Actually, it goes beyond roleplaying. Video games? You can't possibly be a mature person. Fantasy as a genre? What are you, twelve?

It's been a bit better since the Lord of the Rings movies, but I still see it from older people. Before that, it was everyone.

WarKitty
2014-06-11, 04:29 PM
Yeah, that. Actually, it goes beyond roleplaying. Video games? You can't possibly be a mature person. Fantasy as a genre? What are you, twelve?

It's been a bit better since the Lord of the Rings movies, but I still see it from older people. Before that, it was everyone.

The annoying thing is when it comes from video gamers. Apparently this group just couldn't get the concept that there was something between working within the narrow limits of a video game and a free-for-all where anyone could declare anything about their character.

nedz
2014-06-11, 06:41 PM
Maybe the analogy of actors playing in a play is more appropriate ?
This fits both simulationist and story telling modes.

GPuzzle
2014-06-11, 06:56 PM
My friend describes roleplaying games as "a group of nerds sitting around a table playing a mix of tabletop games, improvisation radio drama, make-believe and Monty Python".

This same friend described the Cold War as "USSR and USA, looking at eachother, with the Kill Bill soundtrack going on in the background, on nuclear-bomb-shaped-ice-skates".

WarKitty
2014-06-11, 08:43 PM
Maybe the analogy of actors playing in a play is more appropriate ?
This fits both simulationist and story telling modes.

Of course, this assumes you're talking to someone who is making a legitimate effort to understand and not just trying to find reasons to mock people...

nedz
2014-06-11, 08:51 PM
Of course, this assumes you're talking to someone who is making a legitimate effort to understand and not just trying to find reasons to mock people...

True, but I'm not sure I can help you with that sort. Not feeding them perhaps ?

Sylthia
2014-06-15, 09:18 PM
True, but I'm not sure I can help you with that sort. Not feeding them perhaps ?

I generally don't bring up my role playing to people like that.

WarKitty
2014-06-16, 01:41 AM
I generally don't bring up my role playing to people like that.

Yeah sometimes it just sorta happens - your coworker at a new job asks you what you were thinking about, and at the end you realize your coworker is a bit of an immature jerk.

Sith_Happens
2014-06-17, 04:09 PM
You think that's awkward? Try having a pair of cops walk in during a planning-session for Shadowrun. Until they saw the dice and minis, they probably thought we were planning an actual kidnapping. We pretty much stopped playing Shadowrun after that incident.

That is pure gold.


Kind of off-topic, but the worst thing is when your group is trying something weird and unusual for the game for silliness/variety/whatever and a non-gamer walks in and thinks that's the norm.

"Alright! You passed your Rebuking check and the hippo is now under your control! Oh, hey Dave... Didn't see you there..."

"Okay, the rubber-clad ogre dominatrix begins whipping you, roll Will to resist becoming more lawful and obedient... Uh, wait, no, mom, this really isn't what we do every week!"

My last roommates had a near-supernatural gift for walking into the living room every time my playgroup goes on an R-rated tangent.


I'm gonna go with excluding genres. There's not much I can do to convince people I'm not a pervert, but I can at least strive to be an accurate pervert.

Words of wisdom for the ages, truly.:smallwink:


No, I will not light the inn on fire and steal everything inside. It's not that type of game. My parents give crap suggestions on what to do in-game. (But at least they understand it, sorta).

I'm going to guess your parents are Fallout/Elder Scrolls/Fable fans.:smalltongue:


I do however, advise to NEVER EVER try to explain alignments to non-RPers. Just no.

Explaining the alignment system is easy,* it's once they do understand it that the trouble starts.:smalltongue:

* "You write down whether your character is good or evil (or neither) and whether they value freedom or order more highly (or neither), and it determines the way certain magic affects you."


When you and all of your friends follow your neighbor's day to day life you're called stalkers and ordered to stay at least 500ft from the premises at all times. When you and your friends all follow a celebrity's day to day life you're called fans and don't have to hide your conversations from the police. Some people are just voyeurs at heart; I figure whatever keeps them out of my trash is a good thing.

Wow, you just have all the good quotes this thread.:smallbiggrin:


The only thing that makes D&D hard to explain is using the word "roleplaying," which means something totally different to all non-gamers. Don't call it role-playing. Tell them that you play a table-top game using dice to to determine how well your fighter does in a battle.

I'm pretty sure most people under 30 nowadays will either already know what an "RPG"/"role-playing game" is or at least be familiar with plenty of such games that you could name. The trick then is just explaining that there are ones can play without a monitor or television.


I don't have a big sample size, but quite a few of my group are baseball fans as well. Sometimes we'll have a Cubs game on in the background during our session.

Aren't you worried that the stink of failure will leak into the game and cause a TPK?:smalltongue:

Sylthia
2014-07-09, 08:48 PM
Yeah sometimes it just sorta happens - your coworker at a new job asks you what you were thinking about, and at the end you realize your coworker is a bit of an immature jerk.

Discussions about D&D also inevitably come up when peoe ask me how I met my wife.

Cikomyr
2014-07-10, 06:51 AM
Discussions about D&D also inevitably come up when peoe ask me how I met my wife.

Kids, let me tell you about how I met your mother...

Prince Raven
2014-07-10, 07:01 AM
Kids, let me tell you about how I met your mother...

This is going right in my signature.

TheCountAlucard
2014-07-10, 12:33 PM
Denny's is also a bad place to discuss Shadowrun; the Denver Missions modules involve a lot of scenarios with crime families, such as the Mafia, Yakuza, Triads, and Vory, and the 'runners trying to keep abreast of all the politics without being the victims of a drive-by.

Luckily we were able to convince the police that we were just nerds. :smalltongue:

Kalmageddon
2014-07-10, 02:35 PM
Kids, let me tell you about how I met your mother...

She was on the random encounters table?

Necroticplague
2014-07-10, 02:41 PM
She was on the random encounters table?

Let me guess, right before the Hellhounds?

Sylthia
2014-07-10, 09:52 PM
This is going right in my signature.

Cool.

By the way, we're expecting our first born in three weeks.