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View Full Version : DM Help Graz'zt seduced his way to the Prime Material plane, now what?



INDYSTAR188
2014-04-22, 06:23 PM
So, I'm specifically asking as to what a very powerful fiend or demon can/cannot do in the 'real' world. Can they travel to the Prime any time they want? Do they just send an avatar? Can they recreate reality and do all sorts of stuff not listed on a stats block? Does that apply to lesser powerful demons/fiends too, like balors or pit fiends?

NikitaDarkstar
2014-04-22, 09:46 PM
That depends on the system and the game. Basically if the DM says he can, then he can. Better question is why is he doing it?

INDYSTAR188
2014-04-22, 10:26 PM
That depends on the system and the game. Basically if the DM says he can, then he can. Better question is why is he doing it?

It's 4E, and he (along with agents of Mask and Orcus) are searching for 'stars' needed to complete a 'dark' crown with 7 'star' slots. The premise is, if you can get the dark and light crowns powered and together (and complete a bunch of other stuff, of course) you can become the new god(ess) of magic.

I know at some point I want him to have the dark crown and the PCs to have the light. I'm thinking he forces a confrontation and I wasn't sure what he could/could not do outside of combat and Azzagrat.

Coidzor
2014-04-22, 10:44 PM
It's 4E, and he (along with agents of Mask and Orcus) are searching for 'stars' needed to complete a 'dark' crown with 7 'star' slots. The premise is, if you can get the dark and light crowns powered and together (and complete a bunch of other stuff, of course) you can become the new god(ess) of magic.

I know at some point I want him to have the dark crown and the PCs to have the light. I'm thinking he forces a confrontation and I wasn't sure what he could/could not do outside of combat and Azzagrat.

Goddess of Magic in FR? That's a mug's game. He might want to have influence with the person who becomes the new toff, but he's not going to be fool enough to put on that crown. Goddesses of Magic have a nasty tendency of dying around those parts and he's savvy enough to know the dark of it.

As far as what he can do... Generally Demon Princes aren't depicted as having anything other than more subtle influences unless they settle down for a good while on the mortal world, and then it's more along the lines of making a place end up like Mordor or Minas Morgul or Dol Guldur rather than causing spontaneous short term volcanic eruptions or pin-point earthquakes and fissures.

Gathering dark forces to himself is as natural to him as breathing is to us, so that's one thing he has to force a confrontation, lots of servitors to do it for him by directing a group right where he wants them. I suppose some ritual or another for weather control to send some kind of storm against ships at sea might be thematically appropriate for a Dark Lord...

INDYSTAR188
2014-04-22, 10:56 PM
Goddess of Magic in FR? That's a mug's game. He might want to have influence with the person who becomes the new toff, but he's not going to be fool enough to put on that crown. Goddesses of Magic have a nasty tendency of dying around those parts and he's savvy enough to know the dark of it.

Which is why he made a deal with the PC's. :smallcool:


As far as what he can do... Generally Demon Princes aren't depicted as having anything other than more subtle influences unless they settle down for a good while on the mortal world, and then it's more along the lines of making a place end up like Mordor or Minas Morgul or Dol Guldur rather than causing spontaneous short term volcanic eruptions or pin-point earthquakes and fissures.

Gathering dark forces to himself is as natural to him as breathing is to us, so that's one thing he has to force a confrontation, lots of servitors to do it for him by directing a group right where he wants them. I suppose some ritual or another for weather control to send some kind of storm against ships at sea might be thematically appropriate for a Dark Lord...

This is great, thanks! I wasn't sure if, for example, wherever Orcus walked he could raise a horde of undead and wilt grass and cause two-headed goats to be born, and... you know, super bad demon stuff.

Eldan
2014-04-23, 01:40 AM
AD&D Planescape stated that fiends of any kind can't leave the lower planes unless summoned by a mortal. You might make something from that.

Sith_Happens
2014-04-23, 01:42 AM
Does he have stats? If so, that's a pretty good place to start.:smalltongue:

ThirdEmperor
2014-04-23, 04:24 AM
Graz'zt can do whatever the plot demands he do, and mysteriously always seems to be precisely powerful enough to provide a difficult but surmountable challenge for the PCs. :smalltongue:

Brookshw
2014-04-23, 10:55 AM
Not sure how applicable it may be to your game, but one of Grazzts goals is to expand his realm to include a 4th layer. He's very proud of one of his kids who is close to conquering some mortal world and adding it to the abyss as that layer. He could try for the same directly I suppose.

Sith_Happens
2014-04-23, 11:41 AM
Not sure how applicable it may be to your game, but one of Grazzts goals is to expand his realm to include a 4th layer. He's very proud of one of his kids who is close to conquering some mortal world and adding it to the abyss as that layer. He could try for the same directly I suppose.

Seeing as 4E gave demons a new home plane, I'm going to guess "not very applicable."

Brookshw
2014-04-23, 12:56 PM
Seeing as 4E gave demons a new home plane, I'm going to guess "not very applicable."

I profess to have next to nil knowledge of the tragedy know as the 4th edition cosmology, but as Azzagrat appears to still be around, well, dunno, I'm sure something could be done with it.

Sith_Happens
2014-04-23, 01:14 PM
I profess to have next to nil knowledge of the tragedy know as the 4th edition cosmology, but as Azzagrat appears to still be around, well, dunno, I'm sure something could be done with it.

I only know slightly more, but checking Wikipedia just now it seems that the 4E equivalents of the Outer Planes are finite and drift through the Astral. Demons live on one called Kalandurren; IIRC, at least in the Forgotten Realms there did used to be an Abyss more or less like the 1E-3.5 one, but Asmodeus's first act after becoming a god was to blow it to smithereens.

Brookshw
2014-04-23, 02:21 PM
I only know slightly more, but checking Wikipedia just now it seems that the 4E equivalents of the Outer Planes are finite and drift through the Astral. Demons live on one called Kalandurren; IIRC, at least in the Forgotten Realms there did used to be an Abyss more or less like the 1E-3.5 one, but Asmodeus's first act after becoming a god was to blow it to smithereens.

How on Oerth did he manage that when the original gods couldn't. Ya know, don't answer that.

Still though, a land grab remains an option, no reason that expanding Azzagrat is off the table. Well, unless they threw out all of Grazzt's previous motivations and history I suppose.

Coidzor
2014-04-23, 05:37 PM
Which is why he made a deal with the PC's. :smallcool:

This is great, thanks! I wasn't sure if, for example, wherever Orcus walked he could raise a horde of undead and wilt grass and cause two-headed goats to be born, and... you know, super bad demon stuff.

Heh.

In large part it depends upon how cataclysmic you want to be, really. Is he a corruptive influence, leading to all kinds of sexual debauchery? Is he actively setting out to kill, crush, destroy? Is he taking over as a much sexier alternative to your run of the mill mortal king?

I suppose his seat of power would be more like the Hotel California than Dol Guldur, per se...


Graz'zt can do whatever the plot demands he do, and mysteriously always seems to be precisely powerful enough to provide a difficult but surmountable challenge for the PCs. :smalltongue:

Grazzt (http://youtu.be/6KUJE2xs-RE) is a very dedicated performance artist, after all.

Eldan
2014-04-23, 06:08 PM
Graz'zt is interesting. On the one hand, he's noted for his sexual appeal. On the other hand, he's known as living under pristine and spartan conditions, only wearing pure white and prefering simple, if grotesque artwork for his decoration. I quite like the break with tradition for seductors. If he were to infiltrate a kingdom, he could be a royal bard, scholar or even priest, with that outlook.

Sith_Happens
2014-04-25, 11:10 AM
How on Oerth did he manage that when the original gods couldn't. Ya know, don't answer that.

The Ruby Rod being made from the same Shard of Evil that Tharizdun used to create the Abyss in the first place might have helped. The Shard of Evil being an unfashionably powerful artifact created by the Obyriths to cross over from the other reality that they're originally from.