[Larp] Help with Fighting Style

[Tokuhara]

Hey all. I'll be playing in a local game as a quasi samurai with a homemade 47" Katana (usable in one or two hands). I'm worried that my fighting style's going to get me killed, but my class cannot access polearms, shields, etc. Any ideas on making sure I don't get splattered? Before, I ran "turtle" (heavy armor + shield), so this is a vast departure from my norm.

Thanks!

~Toku

[Domochevsky]

Pro tip: Hit the other guys before they can hit you. :smallwink:

:smallamused:

[CarpeGuitarrem]

What LARP rules? Is it full-contact or do you pull blows? How do armor and shields work? Are there "hitpoints"?

That'll help with answers regarding a lot of the details.

On the basics: you should get in whatever practice you can. It'll stop your discomfort with not being able to rely on defensive gear. It's definitely a big shift, but it'll probably make you a better fighter. You'll need to learn to go on the offensive, and to protect yourself dynamically (blocking weapons and avoiding attacks). Also, learn to present a tiny target to your opponents: face them with your side, not your front. That's pretty basic fighting stance.

Train your instincts so that when someone goes at you, you can block/dodge and make use of the opening. Learn to spot that opening: the best way to successfully fight is to kill them before they kill you. :smallwink: Especially with a shieldless fighter. Fortunately, you have a long weapon, so you've got reach.

And, battlefield awareness. Keep moving, and know your surroundings. It's the worst thing ever to get ganked from behind. If you can partner up with an ally, do so. You'll both benefit. (One thing I brought out of my brief stint in Dagorhir was formation fighting and teamwork: it's super-effective!) In line with this, take whatever opportunities you can to gank people when they aren't looking. :smallbiggrin:

[Tokuhara]

Take away notes: pulled blows, armor acts like "temporary hp", and I'm run in a Berserker class, so I can pop smoke and Rage (not ideal, since I hit anyone close, regardless of affiliation with me).

My biggest worry is to shield walls, since they have an answer to me, but barring lucky hits, I lack a counter. I can jam polearms and outreach 1 handers/Florentine, but shields are going to wreck me.

For a frame of reference, I'm going to be doing 3/4 per swing (double when hulking out), and have a fair bit of HP (~30), so the odd 2/3 isn't going to wreck me.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

In Dag, two-handed weapons could bust down shields. In your LARP, do you have anything similar? How do you get rid of shields? Is it possible? It sounds like you really want to work with some fighters who can act as shock troops against the shieldwall. That lets you jump in and start killing folks behind the shieldwall. Keep it up, and you can cause a lot of damage before the walls reform around you.

[Tokuhara]

Sunder, which has 3 flaws:

1. Needs a lot of prerequisites
2. Reduces Hardness by 1 (shields have 3+)
3. 1 minute recharge

[CarpeGuitarrem]

That's irritating. Do you have magic-users or anyone who can put a big hole in the shieldwall that you can rush through? Because yeah, the only techniques I know of for breaking a shieldwall involve either busting up the shields or physically bashing them so that a gap opens up.

[Tokuhara]

I'm gonna make friends with a wizard or a Spellbender (I warp reality to hurt you) to punch holes, but shields can block spells

[Knaight]

In Dag, two-handed weapons could bust down shields.

Only sufficiently long, sufficiently heavy two handed weapons.

[Tokuhara]

So what can I do too not get shredded by board pokers?

[Partysan]

Against a single enemy with a shield it depends: when they use the shield for defense only, fence with superior range and attack the opening they leave when they try to hit you. If they try to pressure you with the shield and hold down your weapon with it while attacking with theirs (more experienced shieldbearers usually do that and it's rather deadly for a single longsword type), forward dodge on their shield side, effectively circling them. If you practice this for a bit, you can usually get an attack in to their back or side and at least get even. If your opponent is using a polearm with their shield, just get inside their range like with single polearms.
(Note: these are LARP-specific tactics.)

Against a shield wall, run away and sneak up from behind or go kamikaze and jump in swinging wildly*, hoping they'll get into disarray and hit each other instead of just building a circle around you and stabbing you to death. But usually just run away. No single fighter can beat a shield wall.



*Do not actually jump in and swing wildly. Safe fighting is priority in LARP. Do not endanger your fellow players.

[Tokuhara]

So against shield pokers, flank or kneecap. Sounds effective.

So what should I do if I get ganged up on?

[Aidan305]

In general, for single weapon against sword and board, my advice would be "find another enemy". If unavoidable, then Partysan has probably offered the best advice. Keep moving around quickly, and use misdirection whenever possible.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So what should I do if I get ganged up on?
Employ the noble and valiant and time-honored tradition of...."RUN!"

Only sufficiently long, sufficiently heavy two handed weapons.
That's true; I just generally think of two-handed weapons in terms of red, in general. Because there's not much point to have a two-hander that isn't red...

[Knaight]

So against shield pokers, flank or kneecap. Sounds effective.

So what should I do if I get ganged up on?
What are the rules on headshots? I know it's banned in some places and accepted in others, and stabbing people in the face is a remarkably effective way to deal with them if they're using shields - it's hardly the be all end all of fighting them, but it's a really useful options.


That's true; I just generally think of two-handed weapons in terms of red, in general. Because there's not much point to have a two-hander that isn't red...
Reach and speed come to mind. Long, lightweight hewing spears are remarkably effective in skirmishes.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Right, spears! :smallredface:

I'm not sure why spears didn't come to mind when I was trying to think of non-red two-handers.

[Tokuhara]

What are the rules on headshots? I know it's banned in some places and accepted in others, and stabbing people in the face is a remarkably effective way to deal with them if they're using shields - it's hardly the be all end all of fighting them, but it's a really useful option

Headshots are no go, due to safety. Sad to say

[Knaight]

Headshots are no go, due to safety. Sad to say

That's unfortunate. That one rule really, really biases things towards people using shields, though the safety there is a legitimate concern (if one I prefer solved with helmets). What's the position on hands?

[thubby]

get used to reaching. if you lead with your dominant hand, your 1 handed swings should out-range anyone with a sword and board.

against a proper shield wall, aim for their feet. only a kite shield will reach that low, and the wielder's lower left side has a blind spot where they have to guess where you're aiming.

against an individual, rotate them in the direction of their shield arm. defending themselves exposes them to your front lines.

[Tokuhara]

That's unfortunate. That one rule really, really biases things towards people using shields, though the safety there is a legitimate concern (if one I prefer solved with helmets). What's the position on hands?

Hand doesn't count. Plus, it's moderately uncool to whack someone in the fingers. Not opposed to running away, but against a shield wall, I've found moderate success tanking blows and breaking their formation with my body and momentum (once more into the breach), but that's suicide now (no armor = squishy).

So minus shields, I have everyone else's number.

[sonofzeal]

I used to be Weapons/Monster Marshal for a LARP of about 150, and have several years of actual Iaido training under my belt.



First.... two-handed swords are a hard way to fight in LARP. The advantages in power and leverage simply don't translate to contexts where every hit is scored the same, leaving nimbler weapons at an advantage. However, just because it's an uphill battle doesn't mean you can't become terrifyingly good with them.

- Guard your center. The critical portion of a katana is about four inches down from the tip. Try to keep that on the center line between you and your enemy unless you've got distance to spare. DO NOT let your sword get drawn from that line unless you're certain you can accomplish something. If they try to bat your sword aside, try making a tight circle with the tip of your blade, following the direction of their movement but looping underneath to regain the center while their weapon is still off to the side now. If done correctly, you'll now be inside their guard rather than them being inside yours, and a quick lunge can score a hit. However....

- Keep your distance. Nearly every weapon is more agile in close quarters than a large sword. Even a polearm can be short-hafted, but you don't have that luxury. That's why it's so vital to keep that center, because it prevents them from moving in. DO NOT get greedy and try to score a flurry of hits like a shortsword can. Your hits are big, they count for more, be satisfied getting them individually unless your opponent is distracted or incapacitated in some way, and even then be cautious.

- Pick your targets. Big sweeping swings to the shoulders and arms look dramatic, but expose you dangerously. Lunges are faster and safer, and when you do swing it's important to learn to stop your cut on that center line, because any further accomplishes nothing and opens you up. Do note, though, that with two hands on the blade you're a hell of a lot better at low and upward attacks than most other weapons. Punish their shins to make them watch their footing and keep their distance, and use upward strikes to drive them back when they're off-balance.

- Mind your surroundings. Large swords telegraph, but you can use that to your advantage. By showboating with those dramatic-but-ineffective swings mentioned above, you can draw an enemy's attention and guard away so that an ally can carve the everloving bejeezus out of them. Even without allies, you can reliably get people to respond in predictable ways to your giant swings, and this can open up options that have nothing to do with your sword. Remember that even some of the classic Samurai techniques involved leaving your sword entirely and just punching the guy in the face. You have a potential hand free any time you want it, while shield-users and dual-weilders don't. Find ways to make use of that free hand. Does your LARP have magic? Special skills involving hands somehow? How quickly can you draw an underhanded dagger to stab up and over their shield a few times?


I hope some of that helps!

[Knaight]

First.... two-handed swords are a hard way to fight in LARP. The advantages in power and leverage simply don't translate to contexts where every hit is scored the same, leaving nimbler weapons at an advantage. However, just because it's an uphill battle doesn't mean you can't become terrifyingly good with them.
Reach still counts for a fair amount. As for leverage, it can still be used to physically move somebody else's weapon, and provided that they are made well (e.g. with properly long hilts) they can remain very fast.


Keep your distance. Nearly every weapon is more agile in close quarters than a large sword. Even a polearm can be short-hafted, but you don't have that luxury. That's why it's so vital to keep that center, because it prevents them from moving in. DO NOT get greedy and try to score a flurry of hits like a shortsword can. Your hits are big, they count for more, be satisfied getting them individually unless your opponent is distracted or incapacitated in some way, and even then be cautious.
This depends on how half swording works in the rules. If it's allowed, all's good. That said, it could be an issue in LARPs with lots of HP - I'm used to fighting under "you're hit, you're dead" rules, or at least "you're hit, that limb is out of commission" rules.

[sonofzeal]

Reach still counts for a fair amount. As for leverage, it can still be used to physically move somebody else's weapon, and provided that they are made well (e.g. with properly long hilts) they can remain very fast.
Oh, certainly, reach matters. But two-handed swords (and axes to some extent) occupy somewhat of a trough, being both shorter and slower than polearms, with few compensating advantages. That's one reason why hilts got longer and longer until you get things like the naginata which is basically a shortsword blade on a polearm "hilt". You will still have a reach advantage over many, but it's important to be aware of your weaknesses too.

Speaking of, I don't generally recommend batting someone's weapon away unless it's for an ally to take advantage of. With a large sword it's difficult (though not impossible) to do without exposing yourself dangerously, and the lighter weapons can almost invariably recover faster than you. You may be "very fast", but pretty much everything else is even faster. Unless you can seriously send their weapon flying (unlikely), there's every chance that they'll be able to pull exactly the same stunt I described in point 1 above, or simply let their weapon get batted and still bring it back up to regain the centre before you can. Net loss either way, unless you're opening them up for someone else as in my point 4 below.



This depends on how half swording works in the rules. If it's allowed, all's good. That said, it could be an issue in LARPs with lots of HP - I'm used to fighting under "you're hit, you're dead" rules, or at least "you're hit, that limb is out of commission" rules.

You're right, I neglected half-swording since it's not legal at my LARP, but it is covered in Iaido so you'd have basis for doing it with a katana. I'd still keep your distance though; half-swording generally limits your range of effective motion in a way that short-hafting doesn't, because of the awkwardness of holding the blade and because of the unbalanced weight distribution. You aren't a polearm. If you want to be a polearm, there's a whole other writeup I could give, and I'll generally take my polearm over anyone's greatsword. Otherwise though, I still recommend minding distance as much as possible. If it's one-hit-drop, try to get that one hit before they can close. If it's multi-hit combat, get your single hits and then regain that centre line before they can capitalize and close. Either way, distance, distance, distance.

[Tokuhara]

SoZ: Thank you for the in-depth analysis and coverage. Those notes're getting added to my playbook, plus what has been mentioned above. My only fear, as covered in depth above, are turtles because odds are square in their court. That said, I can outpower many on-field with Strength 1 and Weapon Prof (roughly +2 damage) with my rage covering tougher enemies/mobs

[sonofzeal]

SoZ: Thank you for the in-depth analysis and coverage. Those notes're getting added to my playbook, plus what has been mentioned above. My only fear, as covered in depth above, are turtles because odds are square in their court. That said, I can outpower many on-field with Strength 1 and Weapon Prof (roughly +2 damage) with my rage covering tougher enemies/mobs

You're welcome!

Turtles are indeed going to be trouble. That's why it's always so popular and iconic. My LARP rules that spells that hit shields affect the bearer, which helps a lot, but there's no win button I can tell you for twohanded weapons. With shorter blades, going underhanded lets you reach above or around the shield and still strike effectively (basically, bear-hug the shield), but that doesn't help you unless you can pick up a backup shortsword, which might be a good idea anyway. Just take comfort knowing that while you don't pose much threat to turtles, they also don't pose much threat to you as long as you've got unimpaired lines of movement. You can often simply refuse to engage them, and find somewhere else to fight. Your blade may be slower than their blade, but you can cover ground just fine while shields tend to be awkward and heavy for nimble movement. Abuse that privilege. Make them moan about how hard you are to pin down, rather than moaning yourself about how hard they are to hit. You won't always have that luxury of course... but when you do, abuse it ruthlessly. :smallamused:

[Tokuhara]

They can also cry that I do a lot of damage (with Frenzy, I'm calling 8's one-handed, not counting my rather intimidating 10's with both). Sure, they may block the first, but they should fear me

[Tokuhara]

As a side note, I reread my Fury. Turns out, it can deal Elemental damage (Ice or Lightning). Which should I choose? Ice deals x2 to Hobgoblins (my race) and Fire elementals while lightning is x2 to Orion (star folk) and Water enemies

[CarpeGuitarrem]

As a side note, I reread my Fury. Turns out, it can deal Elemental damage (Ice or Lightning). Which should I choose? Ice deals x2 to Hobgoblins (my race) and Fire elementals while lightning is x2 to Orion (star folk) and Water enemies
Unless there's a particular meta in your area (i.e. a lot of Fire Elementals, etc.), I'd pick the one that sounds most fun. Though if you fight with a lot of hobgoblins on your team, I wouldn't pick Ice.

[Raimun]

Just go nuts. You need to go for the offense if you fight with a twohander.

Two handed swords are really good weapons because they out reach onehanders and are nimbler than polearms. They also possess more legitimate striking surface than any other weapon type. Shields have the defensive advantage but they still need to focus on both their sword and shield arms separately. You need to focus only on your sword. As far as I'm concerned, two handed strikes are more focused and controlled than one handed strikes but that might be just my experience/preference/"real life-skill points".

Here's one trick against sword and shield: Feint and then kind of side step and go for the leg of their shielded side. That usually works because shield bashing is a not allowed and the shield dudes usually expect their shields to carry their fights for them. You're also safe from the sword but just for a bit so evade during/after you hit the leg.

[iyaerP]

My best advice for how to effectively use a longsword against a shield fighter is to go for the fore-feint and backstrike. Wait until your opponent swings his weapon at you, baiting if necessary, and go for an arm strike. He will either have to pull his strike to not lose the arm, or block with his shield. If he pulls, extend forward and go for the arm hit. Your superior reach from the longer weapon should allow you to get the hit and get out before he can respond, or get the hit and go for a follow up body shot if he loses the arm (not sure how your combat system works). If he blocks with his shield, sidestep to the shield-side of his body, making him unable to connect with his previous swing (he can't swing through his shield), and strike as his back, shoulder or leg, wherever was exposed by him protecting his arm with the shield, and you think you can get a hit in.

Against a shield wall? Yeah, you aren't winning that solo. There is a reason that shieldwalls were used from the dawn of warfare until the invention of the gun. Because they WORK.

[sonofzeal]

Two handed swords are really good weapons because they ... are nimbler than polearms.

No, not even close, at least for bodylength(ish) polearms. A twelve foot warpike, yeah, but you aren't comparing your speed against them in the first place. But a six or seven foot polearm will run circles around a greatsword if the person using it has any idea what they're doing. Wide-spaced hands create far more leverage, rapid adjustment of grip creates far more options, and the superior thrusting dynamics (depending on the head) mean it can take advantage of much smaller openings too. Also, even in boffers, a greatsword will tend to be heavier than all but the longest and heaviest polearms.

Do not count on being faster than a polearm. The biodynamics mean that your strikes will tend to carry a lot more force, even against the added leverage a polearm might enjoy, so use that to your advantage if you can. Also, polearms for all their simplicity are rather harder to use effectively than swords, and many LARPers with polearms are easy targets. But a competent user is going to be faster than any greatsword, so it's best not to underestimate.

[iyaerP]

No, not even close, at least for bodylength(ish) polearms. A twelve foot warpike, yeah, but you aren't comparing your speed against them in the first place. But a six or seven foot polearm will run circles around a greatsword if the person using it has any idea what they're doing. Wide-spaced hands create far more leverage, rapid adjustment of grip creates far more options, and the superior thrusting dynamics (depending on the head) mean it can take advantage of much smaller openings too. Also, even in boffers, a greatsword will tend to be heavier than all but the longest and heaviest polearms.

Do not count on being faster than a polearm. The biodynamics mean that your strikes will tend to carry a lot more force, even against the added leverage a polearm might enjoy, so use that to your advantage if you can. Also, polearms for all their simplicity are rather harder to use effectively than swords, and many LARPers with polearms are easy targets. But a competent user is going to be faster than any greatsword, so it's best not to underestimate.

When fighting a polearm with a sword, it is easy to get your blade up against, push it away from your body with the greater leverage afforded by the proximity compared to the wielder, and then slide down the spear for a swing at their forearm or fingers, and all they can do at that point is backpeddle and hope to get in a good stab at you if they're quick enough, or sidestep and smack you with the pole. Binding the pole with your blade is the best way to beat a spearfighter, and you have to be aggressive to do so. Spears are a weapon that work best as part of a formation fight where this is harder to do because your buddies will stab the person trying to bind your weapon.

[Knaight]

Here's one trick against sword and shield: Feint and then kind of side step and go for the leg of their shielded side. That usually works because shield bashing is a not allowed and the shield dudes usually expect their shields to carry their fights for them. You're also safe from the sword but just for a bit so evade during/after you hit the leg.
I wouldn't count on this working against people who are actually good with a shield. Even if bashing isn't allowed, there's a lot of fun stuff that can be done with the edge, and provided that they are bending their knees (and they should be), getting a shield down to the leg is pretty manageable.


When fighting a polearm with a sword, it is easy to get your blade up against, push it away from your body with the greater leverage afforded by the proximity compared to the wielder, and then slide down the spear for a swing at their forearm or fingers, and all they can do at that point is backpeddle and hope to get in a good stab at you if they're quick enough, or sidestep and smack you with the pole. Binding the pole with your blade is the best way to beat a spearfighter, and you have to be aggressive to do so. Spears are a weapon that work best as part of a formation fight where this is harder to do because your buddies will stab the person trying to bind your weapon.
Polearms used in two hands are also very effective weapons in individual combat. As for it being easy to get your blade up against a polearm, that depends. More capable polearm users will generally try to prevent that. I'd agree that the best tactic is getting in reach as soon as possible, but you're overstating the ease - I'd guess that polearms don't see heavy use in individual combat in your area, and the users have bad habits that build up from being behind shield walls all the time.

After all, if it was actually easy then swords would have been widely considered a good way to deal with polearms, and plenty of actual medieval weapon masters are on record with lots of variants on how fighting against polearms is a giant pain.

[sonofzeal]

My first major PC used a polearm (6.5' spear, thrusting strikes only), and by the end there were still players higher level than me with all sorts of magic items and skills and health and whatnot, but only one who could go even with me, and she's quite literally world-class at a polearm-based martial art. The martial art doesn't translate perfectly to LARP of course, which is why I could keep up with her there (she destroys me so hard at Naginata it's not even funny, I've tried), but the point is that I'm pretty good with them in a LARP setting.

Even more so than with the greatsword, the polearm has to control the centre. As long as they can do that, they can preserve the distance and abuse their range. With the greatsword, or anything else for that matter, you'll need to take that away from them. Pushing up against and sliding down is one way, but a polearm bearer worth their salt won't just lock weapons with you. If your blade is on an angle, they can simply slip down and under, so watch for that. Your big break in might end up charging straight into their tip.

To prevent that, pay careful attention to the angle of your sword. I'd suggest trying to make sure the handle is low, far forward, and further out in the direction you're trying to push than your blade is. It's hard to explain online. From an observer watching the two of you from your side, your sword should be relatively vertical, since if you lead with the blade as normal you create a bigger gap on the bottom. From an observer behind you, your sword should be making a wedge, where if the polearm presses back in to the centre, it'll slide up rather than down. I've not practiced this approach much personally since I'm usually on the other side of it, but that's the sort of motion I'd fear most from a greatsword. I know I can slip away from the blade easily enough, break contact and regain centre, but the hilt can be used to control me much better.


I can also tell you that the classic polearm reaction to someone closing in past their tip is to pull in to a vertical guard. By that I mean having the entire polearm straight vertical, maybe a from the chest, and from there just about any attack can be parried by a bare three-inch motion to the side the attack's coming from. I've literally blocked a dozen consecutive strikes that way without taking a single hit, just by backpedaling hard while fending them off with these tiny motions that take hardly any time at all but completely protect an entire side.

Against that, you can either try to interrupt their transition to the guard by somehow preventing them from getting their tip up, which might be difficult, or you can play mind-games once you're in close. There's little room to see what's happening there, so most people will just settle into a rhythm. Don't act predictably. "Stutter" your strikes when possible, pausing a quarter second before completing them, because that will break up the flow of their defence and give you an opening. Also, reach around and try to attack from outside angles. Usually your hilt's in close to the centre and your blade comes in from the outside, but here it might help to get your hilt way out to the side so that your blade's coming in from behind them. Nobody can block there. Also, by circling around to one side or the other you can "steer" them a bit, so do so towards friendlies. It's faster to pivot than to circle, but they can only backpedal straight backwards usually, so you can control the direction of their motion. Do so safely though, and be conscious of your back. One nasty polearm tactic is to bait someone into precisely this aggressive push, largely neutralized by the vertical guard, while someone else slips up to maul the bejeezus out of the aggressor's back.



Summary - the critical portion of your blade is half a foot down from the tip, but remember that all your leverage comes from your hilt. Human impulse is to keep the hilt central and the blade moving around, but the reverse is often better. You don't have the best reach or the best speed, but gosh darn it you've got the best leverage in the game. Use it to create unexpected angles.

[Tokuhara]

Well, looking at my profs, I have Two-Handed and "Small Fist" (physrep as a dagger), so if need be, I can sucker punch their shield side as a quick cheap shot.

And I'll rock Lightning as my primary, since few would suspect the samurai to rock 10 lightning to the face (not legit to the face. Safety first!)

[Raimun]

No, not even close, at least for bodylength(ish) polearms. A twelve foot warpike, yeah, but you aren't comparing your speed against them in the first place. But a six or seven foot polearm will run circles around a greatsword if the person using it has any idea what they're doing. Wide-spaced hands create far more leverage, rapid adjustment of grip creates far more options, and the superior thrusting dynamics (depending on the head) mean it can take advantage of much smaller openings too. Also, even in boffers, a greatsword will tend to be heavier than all but the longest and heaviest polearms.

Do not count on being faster than a polearm. The biodynamics mean that your strikes will tend to carry a lot more force, even against the added leverage a polearm might enjoy, so use that to your advantage if you can. Also, polearms for all their simplicity are rather harder to use effectively than swords, and many LARPers with polearms are easy targets. But a competent user is going to be faster than any greatsword, so it's best not to underestimate.

I said nimbler, not faster. I thought it was self-explanatory. If you know how to fight with a twohanded sword, you should be able to outmanuever a polearm. A stab with a polearm is fast but it will never be as nimble as a slash with a two-handed sword.

And most of the time, polearm wielders suffer from the same flaw shield bearers do: they expect their weapons fight for them. I don't think I need to explain why this is a not a good attitude.

[sonofzeal]

I said nimbler, not faster. I thought it was self-explanatory. If you know how to fight with a twohanded sword, you should be able to outmanuever a polearm. A stab with a polearm is fast but it will never be as nimble as a slash with a two-handed sword.

And most of the time, polearm wielders suffer from the same flaw shield bearers do: they expect their weapons fight for them. I don't think I need to explain why this is a not a good attitude.
I'm not sure what you mean by... either of these things, really. A spear can strike faster, it can transition between high and low targets faster - it can literally run circles around a greatsword swing. Try it some time. If a greatsword swings right-to-left attempting to knock the polearm asside, a good polearm user should be able to strike the TRAILING edge of the greatsword if they wanted to. And since there isn't a major weight difference (real-world naginatas are over two meters and under a kilo), a polearm-bearer can move around the battlefield as quickly as the greatsword-bearer. I have trouble coming up with a definition of "nimbler" that would carry any meaning here.

And while I won't underestimate the ability of the majority of polearm weilders to kind of suck with their chosen weapon (it takes more training than a sword or shield), "expecting your weapon to fight for you" isn't really as self-explanatory as you seem to imply. I mean, a lot of them are like "herp derp I got a big metal thing and I'll swing it at them", but that's failing to take advantage of the weapon's strengths, it's using it like a different-shaped sword or axe, not "letting it fight for you". I'm just not sure you what you mean here.

[Tokuhara]

So here's the bad: because of my skills, I can't offhand a fist (requires Expert Florentine). Spellcasting is temperamental at best, and frankly none of the spell lists have anything useful. So I'm trapped in Two Handing my Katana or using it one handed.

That of course doesn't say I can't multiclass into Ranger or Swashbuckler, but that's 6/30 points sunk into a backup option

[sonofzeal]

So here's the bad: because of my skills, I can't offhand a fist (requires Expert Florentine). Spellcasting is temperamental at best, and frankly none of the spell lists have anything useful. So I'm trapped in Two Handing my Katana or using it one handed.

That of course doesn't say I can't multiclass into Ranger or Swashbuckler, but that's 6/30 points sunk into a backup option

Never underestimate the utility of having skills people don't expect you to have. My Mage purchased Polearm proficiency, wore chain, and went around stabbing people - and most just assumed I was a merc. But when I get ambushed or the chips are down, I had this whole other set of abilities to get myself out of it.

[Tokuhara]

Never underestimate the utility of having skills people don't expect you to have. My Mage purchased Polearm proficiency, wore chain, and went around stabbing people - and most just assumed I was a merc. But when I get ambushed or the chips are down, I had this whole other set of abilities to get myself out of it.

Well, either Damage or Stun, and the spells are expensive (5/6 per use) and I look like a warrior (unarmored, but still), so Frenzy alone is a wildcard. The only thing I'd want can't be used with Katana (Backstab, which is auto +2 damage)

[Tokuhara]

As a side note, I'm grabbing my first Trade skill (Librarian, which gives me access to Scrolls, Manuals, and Gems) to open versatility (short term, but still) and more knowledge skills (quasi samurai who is searching for a rare sword). For the cost, I can grab D&D Factotum levels of "burst" versatility (1 fight and some coin) at a fair cost (ink and paper are dirt cheap), but lack permanent versatility (I don't always have access to [insert skill/spell here]) as if I took the class.