Turtleing Goblin

[walfulninja]

So I had this idea pop into my head the other day. Basicly, I got this idea of a goblin in the heaviest armor possible with 2 shields at once. Then I thought about what one of my players said one time. He said that goblins, kobolds etc are useless as enemies (even at level one) because they have very low hp. I replied with "that doesn't matter if you can't hit them". Now, I realize I could throw tuckers kobolds at them but I wanted to try something else.
TLDR: So Id like a build for a goblin with very high AC that gradually chips away at the party's hp. Not to much magic if possible. The party just hit level 2 BTW.

[Sian]

touch ac is going to be easy to hit nonetheless, and save or suck still sucks

[walfulninja]

touch ac is going to be easy to hit nonetheless, and save or suck still sucks

That's OK, as I don't want this to be a TPK, just a hard encounter. If the PCs are smart and use touch at attacks, then good on them.

[pwykersotz]

Heh, or they'll just walk around him. You could always do this to a Blue, a Psionic Goblin. Then they can manifest too. That way he has some way of being a threat.

[Kamin_Majere]

An AC of 28-30 (touch AC of 21-22) should make it neigh untouchable, but getting that in an encounter for level 2 characters is going to be next to impossible.

An Air Goblin
10 + 1 (small) + 6 (Dex) +2 (Fighting Defensively) Would get your touch AC almost high enough

Make it a level two wizard for Mage Armor and Shield would put your Normal AC around 27

You just really dont have the feats or money to get to crazy AC that low a level. Though if you break into 3rd party books (for feats that add 1 to the AC granted by armor and lowering the AC penalitys and raising the dex bonus) and make it a sword wielder that has a 1/day item item of shield and put him in full plate you could get pretty high numbers though your Touch AC would suffer a bit

[walfulninja]

An AC of 28-30 (touch AC of 21-22) should make it neigh untouchable, but getting that in an encounter for level 2 characters is going to be next to impossible
You just really dont have the feats or money to get to crazy AC that low a level.

In that case, what level do you think I should make this encounter? I can always do it later when they level up more.

[Werephilosopher]

Keep in mind, you won't get any more AC wielding two shields than you would wielding one, because their bonuses wouldn't stack.

[walfulninja]

Then what about some thing like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXp8Th41rBs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, with this idea, and the party being level 2, you can go up to level 4-6 and be a boss encounter without too much trouble. We will build him with some glaring flaws that will make this a funny, fun encounter if the party is paying attention, and a hard slog is they don't think.

Here is my build

Goblin Fighter 6

Exotic armor prof (mountain plate), Tower shield, and short spear. With feats that puts his AC around 26 before anything else.

On the other hand, everyone can just run away. His speed is 10ft, and he can't run.

Feats
1st - Dodge
fighter 1 - Exotic armor proficiency
fighter 2 - Weapon focus (short spear)
3rd - Wild Talent (precognitive defense)
fighter 5 - Heavy armor optimization (+1 AC from his mountain plate)
6th - Deflective armor (his mountain plate counts towards his touch AC)

Traits
Slow - 15ft base speed (lowered to 10 by mountain plate) and +1 HP per HD

AC 26, touch AC 22. Nobody in the party should be able to hit him on less than a 19.

He is a CR 4 encounter by the books. Hard, but not unbeatable for a party of level 2 characters. His glaring flaws and providing the players with a solution to beating him as a puzzle should realistically lower him to a CR 2 encounter.

Put him in an encounter with some other goblins and make him have to be left behind as the others rush forward. Give the party 2-3 rounds of fighting other goblins while he rushes forward at 20ft per round, screaming his goblin battle cry the whole way! Preferably there should be a environmental tool they can use to dump burning oil on him or something to end the encounter without having to actually fight him through all that AC. He is a puzzle, not a fight.

[Duboris]

Rather than send just 1 single super-armored goblin at them, you should send him at the PC's with an entourage of other goblins that flee the instant he dies. Throw in a Warchanter (Level 1 Bard) too constantly inspire competence in 3 or 4 warriors (Level 2 Warriors with a Weapon Focus in Dogslicer with the Basic NPC setup)

Single enemy encounters with a wizard present don't go well. Make very sure that all of the goblins attack at different times, however. Flaming sphere will still destroy him, but you should make it an encounter that suddenly jumps on them.

They'll be able to hear a fully armored goblin (That shouldn't be wearing full plate, however he can have a tower shield and be a Fighter 5 to make him a Cr 4. If he's Cr 4, then the Warchanter will be CR 1/2, and the 4 warriors will be Cr 2 or 3 because of their number, which ultimately makes the fight epic, so just stick to 2 warriors at best.)

The encounter can go down like this.

The Goblin warriors need ranks in Stealth and climb, and nothing else, really, and it's a class skill for any goblin unless you change the racial traits. Take that, and put them climbed up behind the rafters, or support beams of the current room. Have everyone, including the Warchanter hide. (She can silent image a big thing of curtains between her and the party prior to their entry, which will also hide the plate goblin)

When the players take enough steps, have everyone but the Warchanter (With a Light Crossbow sized for a medium creature) engage the players (3 Warrior 2's and the Fighter 5 with whoever seems to have the most armor class. Goblins aren't smart.) Have the Bard inspire competence the entire time, and give her the harmonic spell feat, and drop a ghost sound in the hallway to make it sound like more goblins are coming. It's almost a play by play from rise of the runelords, really.

But whatever you do, don't drop just 1 measily little metal goblin against 4 or 5 players. He'll die instantly.

[Kamin_Majere]

In that case, what level do you think I should make this encounter? I can always do it later when they level up more.

Well what is your party make up. A single Level 4 Goblin could be a pretty decent challenge to overcome according to the party make up. But if there is a wizard that is unnaturally addicted to Magic Missile like I am then AC tends to not matter and they will go down pretty easily no matter if the goblin had an AC of 1000, or likes to use enchantments/Illusions you risk having them with a nearly unhittable ally.

So according to the party build is how i would build the gobo and how hard to make it

[walfulninja]

The party consists of the following:
A elf dusk blade that has a stone craft fetish
A really curious and immature dragon shaman (bronze dragon totem)
A very very zealous paladin of heironious that is almost always fallen do to his "punishment of the sinful"
A drunken dwarf cleric of the Asgardian panthion that uses an unarmed boxer build

[Fouredged Sword]

The dragon shaman will eventually beat any slow high AC target with his breath weapon.

[walfulninja]

The dragon shaman will eventually beat any slow high AC target with his breath weapon.

He is level 2 and therefore doesn't have his breath weapon yet.

[Fouredged Sword]

Right, I forgot they don't start with it. Well, another reason dragonfire adepts are better.

[Callin]

Idiot Crusader spamming Crusaders Strike and in the Bolstering Voice Stance would be pretty viable even from level 1.

For AC I prefer the Chain Shirt with Dastana and Chihariana from Oriental Adventures. Gives a +6 AC add in a heavy shield and its a 18 AC without any Dex yet added and full speed movement.

Next level you can add Bard and go with the DFI if you gave him the Dragontouched Feat. Then you can start working down that line and really really cause some probelms. Its a bid MAD but that cant be helped when trying to cover some bases. Str can be ditched to focus on Weapon Finess, Con for HP and at least an 11 Cha. A good Wis for Will Saves and Dex for AC. So yea.. Str and Int are the dump stats.. which is OK for a Goblin.

25pt buy will give you Str 10, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 13 after Modifiers. Take a Flaw to get Weapon Finesse and Dragontouched at lvl 1.

[John Longarrow]

I'd have fun with this...
Air Goblin. Lvl 1=Sword sage. Lvl 2 = Fighter. Lvl 3 = Sword Sage. Lvl 4 = Fighter.

Use Elite array.

Dex 15+1(level)+4 race = 20.
Wis 14

He goes in wearing a chain shirt. Gets +6 from dex, +2 from wis, +1 from size.

Feats are
1-Weapon Finesse
2-Imp Unarmed Strike
3-Two Weapon Fighting
4-Superior Unarmed Strike (ToB-unarmed based off of character level)

This Goblin challenges the Dwarf to an unarmed fight. I repeat CHALLENGES... Should keep the rest of the characters from jumping in, at least in the beginning. His AC is 23, touch 19. If you want to make it harder, give him an amulet of natural armor. Even nastier would be an item that gives the wearer the feat Shadow Hand (dex to damage).

Once you add in some of the maneuvers this guy will walk up and BEAT DOWN the cleric in short order. Then he goes for the caster....

[walfulninja]

Man a goblin beating a dwarf in a boxing match. Who would have thought.

[VoxRationis]

Do tower shields interfere with psionics? If not, you could just give a manifester (credit to a previous poster) a tower shield and have them forego all their "attacks" that they wouldn't be using anyway so as to get total cover while pummeling them with indirect-fire abilities.

[John Longarrow]

walfulninja,

IIRC, with Superior Unarmed the goblin will be doing 1d6 damage at 4th. Between Dex, BAB, and size, should be +9 to hit with one attach, +7/+7 if TWF. Toss on a boost that adds 1d6 damage per attack.

Dwarf is probably around an AC of 16. Goblin shoud do 7 points first round. Next round, goblin uses different maneuver to pull off about the same damage. Cleric should have about 18 HP to start. By round 2 he's in trouble and probably not hitting the Goblin.
I am also guessing the Dwarf is the only member of the party with Dark Vision?

Goblin takes out the lights as soon as the dwarf is down... :belkar:

[Red Fel]

Heh, or they'll just walk around him. You could always do this to a Blue, a Psionic Goblin. Then they can manifest too. That way he has some way of being a threat.

This, so much, and fun.

In terms of pure defense, a first-level Blue Psion could use Force Screen (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/forceScreen.htm), Inertial Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/inertialArmor.htm), and Defensive Precognition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/precognitionDefensive.htm) (and Thicken Skin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/thickenSkin.htm) if he's an Egoist), for a shield, armor, or insight bonus (or enhancement) to AC. With access to second-level powers (or as a first-level PsiWar) he gains DR with Biofeedback (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/biofeedback.htm). With third-level powers, Mental Barrier (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mentalBarrier.htm) grants a deflection bonus.

Note that because each of these is a different type of bonus, they all stack. (Admittedly, some have durations that aren't feasible, but there are ways around that.)

But that's just for amateurs. As people have said, if you want to avoid taking damage, avoid being hit. If you want to avoid being hit, keep people from getting near you.

Meet Energy Push (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyPush.htm) and Energy Stun (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyStun.htm). They're exactly what they say on the tin. Choose an energy type and deal damage, including type-based special effects, and either knockback or stun the target. Both useful and spammable.

I built a character like this, once, inspired by Dr. Reducto (the Harvey Birdman, Attorney-at-Law version, not the original version). He would constantly scream "Back off!" whenever anybody (even an ally) got too close to him, followed promptly by an Energy Shove.

He had issues. And so can you.

[walfulninja]

I am also guessing the Dwarf is the only member of the party with Dark Vision?

Goblin takes out the lights as soon as the dwarf is down... :belkar:

Sadly, the elf has can see in the dark as well.

[John Longarrow]

walfulninja,
Level 5 for the goblin isn't all that great, another level in sword sage... Another 2nd level maneuver.
Level 6 is fighter 3, but he grabs Shadow Hand for Dex to Damage.. Very nice.
Level 7 is Sword Sage again, but now as a 4th level Sword Sage he gets a 3rd level maneuver and Wisdom to Damage.

:belkar: :belkar: :belkar:

NOTE: Fixed frikkn typo..

[Kamin_Majere]

(air)Goblin Turtle

HexBlade 4 (with dark companion)
Mithral Chain Shirt
Pretty Rock (grants Shield spell once per day at CL2)
Light Spear

That gives a touch AC
10 + 1(small) + 5 (dex) + 1(dodge) + 2(fight defensively) 18/19
Attack AC
10 + 1(small) + 5 (dex) + 1(dodge) + 2(fight defensively) + 4(Shield) + 4(chain shirt) 26/27

Adding in the hexblades Dark companions to lower their capabilities and the hex blade curse to cripple their ability to hit in general it should be a decent challenge. Plus its something that you don't see every day. Since its only a single level 4 goblin, throw in 3 or 4 trained wolves, or a goblin party of 2 or 3 level two fighters/bards and you will make them terrified of goblins :)

[torrasque666]

In regards to some of this, it can be mitigated slightly with a third party book, the Player's Companion by Technomancer Press. It has a feat to allow duel wielding shields(or hey, if you're the GM house rule it as a shield that just happens to have twice the AC of a shield that takes two hands to wield. PHB2 has a feat that allows shields to be added to touch as well.

[walfulninja]

I'd have fun with this...
Air Goblin. Lvl 1=Sword sage. Lvl 2 = Fighter. Lvl 3 = Sword Sage. Lvl 4 = Fighter.

Use Elite array.

Dex 15+1(level)+4 race = 20.
Wis 14

He goes in wearing a chain shirt. Gets +6 from dex, +2 from wis, +1 from size.

Feats are
1-Weapon Finesse
2-Imp Unarmed Strike
3-Two Weapon Fighting
4-Superior Unarmed Strike (ToB-unarmed based off of character level)

This Goblin challenges the Dwarf to an unarmed fight. I repeat CHALLENGES... Should keep the rest of the characters from jumping in, at least in the beginning. His AC is 23, touch 19. If you want to make it harder, give him an amulet of natural armor. Even nastier would be an item that gives the wearer the feat Shadow Hand (dex to damage).

Once you add in some of the maneuvers this guy will walk up and BEAT DOWN the cleric in short order. Then he goes for the caster....

His flat footed AC would be just the chain bonus correct? I'm currently In a position in which I can't access my books.

[John Longarrow]

Correct, Flat Footed isn't as good as Touch. Then again this guy shouldn't be sitting some place where he's likely to be surprised...

[walfulninja]

Correct, Flat Footed isn't as good as Touch. Then again this guy shouldn't be sitting some place where he's likely to be surprised...

Well I was thinking that if the PCs are smart, they will cast light on the goblin(light sensitive) and then attack from behind or whatever. That way they have a chance to beat him other then very lucky rolls.

[Yogibear41]

All you have to do is use the terrain to where the goblins can attack the players but the players can't attack them back. Or goblins surprise round attack then just disappear and wait til later to do it again.

[John Longarrow]

Hmm...
Do you think they won't accept the challenge from a lone goblin to fight unarmed one on one? Or that the cleric will decide to cheat at it?

For a cheater, I'd have 12 goblins following this "Monk". Each carries a flask of alchemists fire. If the party cheats, guess what happens from the rest of them???

[tyckspoon]

Well I was thinking that if the PCs are smart, they will cast light on the goblin(light sensitive) and then attack from behind or whatever. That way they have a chance to beat him other then very lucky rolls.

Do note that there is absolutely no rules support for doing this - Goblins aren't actually light-sensitive (that's Orcs), light-sensitivity doesn't cause blindness (it just Dazzles, which is probably the weakest possible status effect you can inflict), and D&D doesn't do facing normally, so you can't really attack somebody 'from behind'. If your group is used to playing loose with that kind of thing, then carry on, but if you don't normally don't be surprised if they don't think to do something like that. There's no reason to expect it to work.

[walfulninja]

Hmm...
Do you think they won't accept the challenge from a lone goblin to fight unarmed one on one? Or that the cleric will decide to cheat at it?

For a cheater, I'd have 12 goblins following this "Monk". Each carries a flask of alchemists fire. If the party cheats, guess what happens from the rest of them???

True, I just want a fail safe is all.

[walfulninja]

Do note that there is absolutely no rules support for doing this - Goblins aren't actually light-sensitive (that's Orcs), light-sensitivity doesn't cause blindness (it just Dazzles, which is probably the weakest possible status effect you can inflict), and D&D doesn't do facing normally, so you can't really attack somebody 'from behind'. If your group is used to playing loose with that kind of thing, then carry on, but if you don't normally don't be surprised if they don't think to do something like that. There's no reason to expect it to work.

Oh derp mixed up my cannon fodder races :P.

[John Longarrow]

For a true failsafe, have the Goblin come to town looking for the Dwarf. Goblin publicly challenges Dwarf, possibly in a tavern.

As the Goblin is in Monk type garb, odds are people won't treat it like a normal Goblin. For added insult to injury, make it a female Goblin.

She enteres the town and issues a challenge "To that dirty, cowardly, pathetic Dwarf that goes by <<Character's name here>>. Tell he to come out and get his beard shaved like the good little whelp he is!" She's pissed because her fiance fell to the dwarves fists. Now its payback time.

If you like Ranma 1/2, you get an even more evil solution if the Dwarf does succeed in knocking her out. By her tribal law, she must now marry the Dwarf.

[walfulninja]

For a true failsafe, have the Goblin come to town looking for the Dwarf. Goblin publicly challenges Dwarf, possibly in a tavern.

As the Goblin is in Monk type garb, odds are people won't treat it like a normal Goblin. For added insult to injury, make it a female Goblin.

She enteres the town and issues a challenge "To that dirty, cowardly, pathetic Dwarf that goes by <<Character's name here>>. Tell he to come out and get his beard shaved like the good little whelp he is!" She's pissed because her fiance fell to the dwarves fists. Now its payback time.

If you like Ranma 1/2, you get an even more evil solution if the Dwarf does succeed in knocking her out. By her tribal law, she must now marry the Dwarf.

XD omg I spit orange juice all over my tablet. That was amazing.Totally doing this.

[John Longarrow]

walfulninja,
Please let us know how it goes. Some times the best encounters in game are the total train wrecks that occur when "Marriage" comes up as a surprise for one of the characters.

I still remember getting a character into a very fun game when she shows up, hands the party leader a sealed message, and announced "I won't do it!"

Message is an agreement between the party leader's lord and the new character's clan mother arranging their marraige.

Even more fun when the party leader asks one of the other characters, his "Man servant", to "Take care of this, I'm getting a drink!". Man servant goes on to try and kill the new character.

[torrasque666]

I remember when one of my teammates ended up married. Mostly due to bringing a new litter of halflings into the world. Then he died and my Warforged inherited them(they were given to him via will). They are much happier now because Robodaddy.

[walfulninja]

I remember when one of my teammates ended up married. Mostly due to bringing a new litter of halflings into the world. Then he died and my Warforged inherited them(they were given to him via will). They are much happier now because Robodaddy.

Child: Daddy, are you going somewhere?
Robodaddy: Yes, I'll be back.
Child: Hasta la vista baby
Robodaddy, shedding a single tear: They grow up so fast.

[torrasque666]

Does it make it more sentimental that he has a large extradimensional space in his chest that they live in? And occasionally fire a ballista out of?

[walfulninja]

Does it make it more sentimental that he has a large extradimensional space in his chest that they live in? And occasionally fire a ballista out of?

Yes, much more.