How can I get extra swift actions?

[Rakaydos]

I'm playing a high level martial adept gish with good spell support, and one problem I'm running into is not having enough swift actions to go around. Between resetting warblade maneuvers, throwing around quickened spells, Belt of Battle, and activating Jade Phoenix mage's "sacrifice a cantrip (and a swift) for +4 to hit" I'm hitting action economy walls.

Is there a spell, item, or abilitiy that would let me take multiple swift actions per turn?

[Dusk Eclipse]

The only way I know off is RKV 8, which will probably make it incompatible with your current build. If you use counters a lot, Stance of Alacrity (Diamond Mind 8) would help a little.

[Rakaydos]

Is there a spell that lets me cast multiple quickened spells a round? It might not let me do everything I want, but it could help.

[BowStreetRunner]

Stance of Alacrity allows you to use one free counter per round. Since a counter is an immediate action that uses up your swift action until after your next turn, this can give you a little more freedom. Other than that however, there aren't very many other options out there.

[Sith_Happens]

Yeah, besides Ruby Knight WVindicator they kept the whole "swift action = once per turn" thing pretty much airtight.

[Rakaydos]

What about Standard actions? if I cant get more swifts, I might at least save a few Belt of Battle charges.

What book is Celerity in?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Celerity is in Player's Handbook II, IIRC, but it wouldn't really help you since yes, it gives a standard action, but it requires an immediate action to start so yeah, you are kind of out of luck.

To be honest Psionics are better at the "make action economy cry in a corner" stuff.

[dextercorvia]

Chronotyryns get double actions every round. That includes 2 Swifts, 2 Moves, and 2 Standards.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I can't recall, can you transform into a Chronotrym with Polymorph or do you need Shapechange ?

[Rakaydos]

Any psionic items I can UMD my way into using?

[dextercorvia]

I can't recall, can you transform into a Chronotrym with Polymorph or do you need Shapechange ?

It has 17HD, so you can use Polymorph, but you have to use Reserves of Strength. Also, Dual Actions is a Special Quality, so Shapechange is the better option.


Any psionic items I can UMD my way into using?

Nope. UPD is a thing.

[Adverb]

If you're in Eberron, you can theoretically cast Unfettered Heroism to take an extra standard per turn for 1 action point instead of 2.

[Darrin]

Also, I haven't seen this mentioned yet:

Synads get one extra "mental only" swift action 1/day. (And no, the rules don't specify which maneuvers/boosts/counters are "mental only".)

Extra Standard Actions are easier to get than extra swifts. Factotum 8 can convert inspiration points into extra standards. Aberrations can use alter self/polymorph to turn into chokers that get two standards a round. If you bind the Threefold Mask of the Chimera soulmeld to your soul chakra, you can get an extra standard, but at the cost of losing all your actions on the next round.

[dextercorvia]

Aberrations can use alter self/polymorph to turn into chokers that get two standards a round.

Requires Assume Supernatural Ability. Not a huge barrier. Just wear a helmet.

[Rakaydos]

Nope. UPD is a thing.

Lol... I got a pretty good charisma (this is a pretty monty haul game) so what could I get with cross class UPD?

[Andezzar]

Synads get one extra "mental only" swift action 1/day. (And no, the rules don't specify which maneuvers/boosts/counters are "mental only".)I'm pretty sure it is none of them. All maneuvers require the initiator to be able to move.

[Dusk Eclipse]

The Psicrown of the Temporal Juggler (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/psicrowns.htm#temporalJuggler)might help you, Temporal Acceleration essentially is Time stop+

[Fable Wright]

Is there a spell that lets me cast multiple quickened spells a round? It might not let me do everything I want, but it could help.

Yes, there is. Spell Matrix and Greater Spell Matrix each let you cast 2 or 3 (respectively) 3rd-level or less spells as a single Swift action.

[Thanatosia]

I don't know of any way to get general-use extra swift actions, but there is the Epic Feat Multispell that lets you cast multiple quickened spells per turn. Given that it was writtain before the whole concept of Swift/Imediate actions were created and quickened spells were the only swift-style action in the game (everything else was free, standard, move, or full round), you might be able to argue with a DM that it grants extra swift actions per turn, but it's a stretch.

[NoACWarrior]

Yes, there is. Spell Matrix and Greater Spell Matrix each let you cast 2 or 3 (respectively) 3rd-level or less spells as a single Swift action.

Ah good old PGtF :smallwink: and its spell matrix and spell sequencer, but the free action is much better on the action economy than using a swift action.

Alternatively, if you were a sorcerer, you could cast arcane fusion to cast 2 spells in a single round, or quicken it with sudden quicken and then cast arcane fusion again. Same thing with greater arcane fusion. The only limit is that you are casting a single 1st level spell (or lower) and a 4th level spell (or lower), or a single 4th level spell (or lower) and a 7th level spell (or lower). Arcane fusion, however, may be banned from use due to nova abilities with sanctum spell - but simply reassure the DM you will not be using sanctum spell and he/she/it may let you play with the spell. And also to note, if you get a magic emulating item of arcane fusion but you have no sorcerer spells, this magic item does NOT give you the ability to cast 2 spells.

[Rakaydos]

Hmm... I'm going to try the ruling that Multispell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#multispell) grants 1 additional Swift that can only be used to cast Quickened Spells past my DM. If I use a swift on something else, I can normally cast 0 quickened spells, +1 for multispell. Think that holds up as RAW? and does it fit as RAI given the existence of Swift actions?

[NoACWarrior]

Hmm... I'm going to try the ruling that Multispell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#multispell) grants 1 additional Swift that can only be used to cast Quickened Spells past my DM. If I use a swift on something else, I can normally cast 0 quickened spells, +1 for multispell. Think that holds up as RAW? and does it fit as RAI given the existence of Swift actions?

That doesn't hold up as RAW since quicken spell is always a swift action, just that the feat multi spell allows you to cast an additional quicken spell (after casting a first quicken spell) as if you had another swift action to use. RAI may be different, and as long as you can convince the DM that whatever you are using the swift action is related to spell use (either spell emulation, SLA, actual quickened spell, active spell swift action effects, Su spell emulation) you should be ok.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Ah good old PGtF :smallwink: and its spell matrix and spell sequencer, but the free action is much better on the action economy than using a swift action.

Alternatively, if you were a sorcerer, you could cast arcane fusion to cast 2 spells in a single round, or quicken it with sudden quicken and then cast arcane fusion again. Same thing with greater arcane fusion. The only limit is that you are casting a single 1st level spell (or lower) and a 4th level spell (or lower), or a single 4th level spell (or lower) and a 7th level spell (or lower). Arcane fusion, however, may be banned from use due to nova abilities with sanctum spell - but simply reassure the DM you will not be using sanctum spell and he/she/it may let you play with the spell. And also to note, if you get a magic emulating item of arcane fusion but you have no sorcerer spells, this magic item does NOT give you the ability to cast 2 spells.

Greater Arcane Fusion can lead to an infinite loop in action generation with the use of Sanctum Spell and Celerity. Use GAF to cast a Sanctum'd GAF and Celerity. Due to the order of operations, if you are not in your sanctum, the metamagic'd GAF is for all purposes a 7th level spell and thus eligible for GAF to "cast." Repeat until your DM smacks you with books.

[NoACWarrior]

Greater Arcane Fusion can lead to an infinite loop in action generation with the use of Sanctum Spell and Celerity. Use GAF to cast a Sanctum'd GAF and Celerity. Due to the order of operations, if you are not in your sanctum, the metamagic'd GAF is for all purposes a 7th level spell and thus eligible for GAF to "cast." Repeat until your DM smacks you with books.

Thats fine and dandy, I understand how that works. What I am saying is that if you don't have access to sorcerer spells arcane fusion doesn't work, since it specifically calls out "Sorcerer spells you know and have access to". A wizard wouldn't be able to nova with an arcane fusion emulating magic item, unless said item gave the wizard the spell as if it were a sorcerer spell. Divine spell casters likewise wouldn't be able to nova with this unless they somehow had "sorcerer spells" and somehow added arcane fusion to their spell list as a sorcerer spell...

[Fable Wright]

Ah good old PGtF :smallwink: and its spell matrix and spell sequencer, but the free action is much better on the action economy than using a swift action.
No, I got the details right. The reprint in Spell Compendium changed the names and the action needed to cast the spells in the matrix. Though the PGtF version, with free action casting, would be significantly stronger.

[Cruiser1]

If you're in Eberron, you can theoretically cast Unfettered Heroism to take an extra standard per turn for 1 action point instead of 2.
Cast Unfettered Heroism twice, and you should get 2 action points per turn. :smallsmile: Gaining an action point isn't a bonus type like an ability enhancement or fast healing (things like that don't stack). The spell text of "each round that this spell is in effect, you gain a free temporary action point" should be able to gain multiple action points. That's similar to how having Melf's Acid Arrow cast against you multiple times makes you lose hp for each instance.

[Zweisteine]

I can't recall, can you transform into a Chronotrym with Polymorph or do you need Shapechange ?
I believe Shapechange is required, or Pilymorph wih Assume Supernatural Ability.

Better, I believe, are the Serpentir (MM5, p. 158). They get dual actions as an extraordinary special attack, so polymorph works fine. However, it's an undead creature, so you might have trouble polymorphing into one (I recommend Necropolitanism).

[Curmudgeon]

Cast Unfettered Heroism twice, and you should get 2 action points per turn. :smallsmile: Gaining an action point isn't a bonus type like an ability enhancement or fast healing (things like that don't stack). The spell text of "each round that this spell is in effect, you gain a free temporary action point" should be able to gain multiple action points.
Sorry, but that's not what will happen. Note exactly what it says: "this spell", not "an instance of this spell". Multiple spell instances, but of the same spell, will result in 1 free temporary AP each round. If you had two different spells with similar wording you'd get 2 APs. But two instances of "this spell" get you just the 1 AP.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Thats fine and dandy, I understand how that works. What I am saying is that if you don't have access to sorcerer spells arcane fusion doesn't work, since it specifically calls out "Sorcerer spells you know and have access to". A wizard wouldn't be able to nova with an arcane fusion emulating magic item, unless said item gave the wizard the spell as if it were a sorcerer spell. Divine spell casters likewise wouldn't be able to nova with this unless they somehow had "sorcerer spells" and somehow added arcane fusion to their spell list as a sorcerer spell...

To be fair, this can be open to debate, like in the case of an archivist with the Battle Blessing feat. Are the spells he stole off the paladin list "Paladin spells" or not? Considering how the archivist doesn't even have its own spell list, this is a fair question. The same could be done here: as long as your grabbing sorcerer/wizard spells known, you should be okay if you do this as a wizard (or beguiler or whoever else got their stinking mitts on the arcane fusion line), but the second you say it has to be just a "sorcerer" spell, then it falls apart.


As for the Unfettered Heroism line of using action points for actions, isn't there another feat or class feature somewhere that reduces the cost of the extra action down to just one AP?

[Adverb]

Extreme Explorer lets you get a move action for 1, which for some characters is a better option than getting a standard for 2.

Still doesn't solve the swift problem though.

[NeoPhoenix0]

it is probably easier to not quicken spells and get extra standard actions.

for the rest of your swift action economy debacle, I'm at a loss.

[shaikujin]

Possible solution:

Rules Compendium pg 110 states that you can ready a swift action.

The "Ready" action is a standard action.

So you can use a Standard action to ready a Swift. Getting standard actions is a lot easier. Use any of the methods suggested above. Or my favorite - a rechargable contingency Psionic tattoo of Synchronicity.

How to make psionic tattoos rechargable and activate upon contingencies - from the Mind's Eye article here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031225a

Specifically by using the Capacitor and Inducer tattoos respectively.

The preprogramed directive to trigger this tattoo could be something along the lines of "Whenever I have used my Swift action". Or think of something better and more suitable to your table's style of playing.

Hope that helps at least somewhat with ideas

[Curmudgeon]

Rules Compendium pg 110 states that you can ready a swift action.

The "Ready" action is a standard action.

So you can use a Standard action to ready a Swift.
So? Just because you use Ready doesn't mean you get an exception to the 1/round limit. You can also Ready an action to cast a spell which you don't have available; that won't work, either. If you're not allowed to use a swift action, Ready won't change that.

[shaikujin]

I know you have an immaculate grasp of the rules, and stick as close to RAW as possible, so I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from.

Are you referring to the part that says "you can perform only a single swift action per turn"?

If so, how would you rule the RKV abilty to expend TU uses to gain a Swift? Does it not work even if the RKV character burns the TU and spends his standard action to gain the Swift?


Or are you saying that to ready an action, you must have an unspent action of that type?

Which means if you use a standard action to "ready", you no longer have an available standard action to spend on the actual standard action that's readied?


Btw, I'm actually quite insterested in which RAW shennigans do you allow at your table. Would you allow Swordsage 6x skil points for example? What about others that your players have successfully pulled off on you?

[Curmudgeon]

Are you referring to the part that says "you can perform only a single swift action per turn"?
Yes, that's the general rule.

If so, how would you rule the RKV abilty to expend TU uses to gain a Swift? Does it not work even if the RKV character burns the TU and spends his standard action to gain the Swift? Supplements can make exceptions to the general rules. Of course, those exceptions need to be clearly stated.
You can expend a turn or rebuke undead attempt to gain one additional swift action this round. That's pretty clear.

Or are you saying that to ready an action, you must have an unspent action of that type? No. However, there are rules which you have to follow; Ready only makes a few exceptions. For instance, there's a general rule that you can't take a 5' step if you've already moved in the round, and thus your can't include a 5' step in your readied action in that case. Similarly, you can't Ready a swift action if you've already used up your allotment for the turn.

Btw, I'm actually quite insterested in which RAW shennigans do you allow at your table. Would you allow Swordsage 6x skil points for example?
See the Player's Handbook Errata, where WotC leaves "minor, typographical errors" to each DM to address. Swordsages don't get x6 skill points at first level; they get x4, like every other class. However, that's a specific written house rule in my games. I don't believe in surprising players (except, perhaps, when they assume something that's not actually part of the rules).
What about others that your players have successfully pulled off on you? Let's see.

I've let Martial Monks select any sort of Fighter Bonus Feats, even those they don't qualify for. (You can make a reasonable argument that they're still restricted to just the six feats specified under the Monk Bonus Feat class feature.) Of course, Monks only have a rule allowing them to bypass prerequisites when they select feats, but no bypass to use feats they don't qualify for. This does let Monks select feats so they'll have them available as soon as they qualify (via BAB or whatever) rather than having to wait for the next feat slot afterward.
Great Crossbow users can make use of any option that's available to heavy crossbow users. I figured they didn't need to be excluded from things that are overly specific ("Choose a type of crossbow (hand, light, or heavy).") to no good end. That's another written house rule.
I've let characters use multiple Nightsticks, but never more than one at a time. (I decided later to make those items very rare in my games.)
A character with Spring Attack can move 5' and attack an enemy, then decide after that first swing if (a) that was a 5' step and they'll continue with a full attack; or (b) it was part of a split move action and they'll Spring Attack. D&D (mostly) doesn't use declared actions, so players don't need to pick specific D&D actions until it makes a difference under the rules.
I've let a Cleric prepare and cast spells based on their total CL when burning a Candle of Invocation (instead of based only on the CL boost from the Candle). Frankly, I appreciated their restraint in not using the Gate option.
You can damage Undead with attacks to their mental ability scores. The Undead type trait "Immune to damage to its physical ability scores" follows and provides an exception to the "No Constitution score" trait, which normally makes them immune to all ability damage.
Characters in my games can get sneak attack/skirmish damage on any critical hit with Telling Blow. They can disregard the usual 30' range restriction, concealment, and not having moved 10' first (for skirmish).
Mind Blank can foil Telepathy and Mind Sense; the warded creature is never in range of any Telepathy ability (regardless of actual distance).
I've let Factotum Cunning Breach actually do something. As written, it only applies to a game mechanic which doesn't exist in D&D ("any spell resistance check that she attempts to avoid your spell"). Once again, that had to be a written house rule, because the RAW does nothing.

[NeoPhoenix0]

I know this is starting to get reasonably off track, but i'm very curious after seeing your short list there.

Curmudgeon, have you ever noted that the RKV's flagship ability is actually quite limited in RAW?
That the ability is a supernatural ability that doesn't specify an action cost so it is a standard action. So you need to spend a standard action to turn a turn undead into an extra swift action.

Actually it is still slightly related to the topic of the thread isn't it.

[shaikujin]

Curmudgeon, thanks for taking the time to anwser my questions.

I thought it was one of the 2, but I wasn't sure which one you meant.

So it looks like by RAW, it's RKV or get extra standard actions and use those to cast without quicken. Both have already been suggested by others.

I do like the way you handle nightsticks and martial monk.