Animal Companions (PF)

[Valdras]

Hello Again,

Just wanted to check, the SRD says that animal companions with a INT of 3 can learn feats they are physically capable of doing.

So, My gorilla, with it's opposable thumbs, can therefore gain weapon proficiencies right? Feat: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword?

I was just going to go for Precise Strike, the teamwork feat, but I think a monkey with a sword is much better.... or maybe both. lol.

[Slipperychicken]

You might have to deal with this bit, though.


An intelligent animal is smart enough to use tools, but might lack the ability to manipulate them. a crow could be able to use simple lockpicks, but a dog can't. Even if the animal is physically capable of using a tool, it might still prefer its own natural body to manufactured items, especially when it comes to weapons. An intelligent gorilla could hold or wield a sword, but its inclination is to make slam attacks. No amount of training (including weapon proficiency feats) is going to make it fully comfortable attacking in any other way.

[Honest Tiefling]

Other primates really cannot hold the sword in ways that would make it useful. I don't think I would hold it against your DM for ruling that it wouldn't work.

[Keneth]

The real question is why would you want your gorilla to do that? At least give it a cool weapon, not bastard sword.

[Valdras]

Well, a bastard sword is unique in awesomeness, as a medium creature can use it one handed if proficient in it, so the logic follows that a medium creature can wield a Large Bastard sword 2 handed.

I just noticed gorilla is not on the animal companion list anyway, so I guess my Mad Dog barbarian will need to stay with a Wolf.

[Coidzor]

Well, a bastard sword is unique in awesomeness, as a medium creature can use it one handed if proficient in it, so the logic follows that a medium creature can wield a Large Bastard sword 2 handed.

We prefer "Fullblades." :smallwink:

[Keneth]

the logic follows that a medium creature can wield a Large Bastard sword 2 handed

As much as I am a fan of fullblades, a -2 to attack is not worth the +2 to damage over a greatsword.

And it's still one of the most boring weapons in existence.

[13ones]

You want a boring weapon? A greatsword is a boring weapon cause everyone uses it! EVERYONE! You want cool? Get a large sized dino, mount that sucker, mounted archery with team work feats on the back of a t-rex (or be a Gnome/Halfling/Small sized race and mount a Velocoraptor)

[Keneth]

Well yeah, greatsword, short sword, longsword, bastard sword, those are all pretty boring. It's the same weapon with slightly varying blade lengths.

And velociraptors are the size of a turkey. You're thinking of a deinonychus, and even they are barely medium-sized. Plus, being bipedal, their carrying capacity pretty low, so no second breakfast for your halfling. :smallbiggrin:

[Ravens_cry]

Well, it says nothing about it being impossible, just that using slams are its inclination when it's not being told to do otherwise. I imagine it being a point of contention between the animal companion and the other character.

[13ones]

Deinonychus also count as Velociraptors for the sake of things in pathfinder. they have the same stat table on the SRD. At 7th level they go up to Medium and have a decent enough strength score that riding them isn't out of the question.

I still prefer the giant scorpion for my mount/pet mind you.

[Coidzor]

And velociraptors are the size of a turkey. You're thinking of a deinonychus, and even they are barely medium-sized. Plus, being bipedal, their carrying capacity pretty low, so no second breakfast for your halfling. :smallbiggrin:

That's funny, you're almost acting like an impediment to halflings on dinosaurs were a good thing and that they're hobbits still. :smalltongue:


Well, it says nothing about it being impossible, just that using slams are its inclination when it's not being told to do otherwise. I imagine it being a point of contention between the animal companion and the other character.

Eh, it reads pretty clearly as a thinly veiled "GMs, just say no, despite the fact that even we can't think of a good enough argument to put here to categorically deny weapon use to all animal companions ever."

[Slipperychicken]

Eh, it reads pretty clearly as a thinly veiled "GMs, just say no, despite the fact that even we can't think of a good enough argument to put here to categorically deny weapon use to all animal companions ever."

It's almost as egregious as Rope Trick's "The rope cannot be removed or hidden". The designers couldn't even be bothered to think of an in-universe reason for that one (not even a "the magic requires that the rope be plainly visible"). At least they tried to BS something for animal companions.

[Coidzor]

It's almost as egregious as Rope Trick's "The rope cannot be removed or hidden". The designers couldn't even be bothered to think of an in-universe reason for that one (not even a "the magic requires that the rope be plainly visible"). At least they tried to BS something for animal companions.

Yeah, and I at least can see where they're coming from with it here as opposed to there.

[Honest Tiefling]

Uh...I want to know what primates you guys have seen* that have this sort of ability other then humans. The hands of a chimpanzee or gorilla just are not as agile as a human's and they cannot manipulate things as easily. It apparently takes Chimpanzees several years to learn the trick of 'smash nut with rock', let alone become a master swordsman. Gorillas are even worse. Add on the fact that gorillas walk on their 'hands' and its more of a set up for craaaaaazy slapstick hijinks then a melee menace. This isn't BS on the part of Paizo, just knowledge of primates.

*No wait, they're far stronger then us, I don't want to see your murder-apes. You can keep them.

[Coidzor]

Uh...I want to know what primates you guys have seen* that have this sort of ability other then humans. The hands of a chimpanzee or gorilla just are not as agile as a human's and they cannot manipulate things as easily. It apparently takes Chimpanzees several years to learn the trick of 'smash nut with rock', let alone become a master swordsman. Gorillas are even worse. Add on the fact that gorillas walk on their 'hands' and its more of a set up for craaaaaazy slapstick hijinks then a melee menace. This isn't BS on the part of Paizo, just knowledge of primates.

*No wait, they're far stronger then us, I don't want to see your murder-apes. You can keep them.

We're talking about two completely separate issues here, for starters, but good show for trying to obfuscate things by focusing on minutia I suppose. :smallconfused:

[Honest Tiefling]

My apologies if I have missed something, but I thought the issue was that the gorilla should be able to learn feats it is physically capable of, and that Paizo seems to be under the impression that gorillas cannot swing swords competently, thus denying gorillas access to certain feats.

[deuxhero]

Eh, it reads pretty clearly as a thinly veiled "GMs, just say no, despite the fact that even we can't think of a good enough argument to put here to categorically deny weapon use to all animal companions ever."

I'm reminded of them saying Celestial Companion changing and animal companion to full BAB and not even saying why. I can think of a pretty good reason that could be used myself "the HD an animal companion gains are not actually animal racial HD and are uneffected by type changes", but they just did it with no explanation.

[Erik Vale]

Well, a bastard sword is unique in awesomeness, as a medium creature can use it one handed if proficient in it, so the logic follows that a medium creature can wield a Large Bastard sword 2 handed.

I just noticed gorilla is not on the animal companion list anyway, so I guess my Mad Dog barbarian will need to stay with a Wolf.

Ape is though.

Personally, I use squirrel familiars and crossbows. Tiny little crossbows... People think that the Squirrel dressed up all soldier like is cool until they find out the squirrel is actually trained in using the thing, and it actually works.