OOTS #950 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[urbanwolf]

Loving V's look

[Domino Quartz]

Heheheh. Good old Vaarsuvius.:smallbiggrin:

[Sartharina]

... I'm trying to figure out what happened there. Did the fire go out?

[The Recreator]

Heh. "My other airship is a carpet."

Oh, and Mr. Scruffy and Bloodfeast are all cuddled up and it is adorable.

[Codyage]

Wizards, quite useful at times. With all of their spells, and preparedness.

[Trillium]

V is as awesome as always. :smallcool:
That "Ray of Frost" was superb.

Oh, and Mr. Scruffy sleeping cuddled with Bloodfeast is among the cutest things ever :smallsmile:

[Andvare]

Quadratic Wizards (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards), or a more funny version:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw

[WindStruck]

Hah! Knew V wasn't barefoot!

By the way, so it's still fairly rainy out there... does this mean V has way more concentration than he did when they fought Miko?

[oppyu]

Even with all that character development, V still derives enjoyment from showy demonstrations of vir supreme arcane power.

[Mutant Sheep]

As usual, BWing has the most amazing lines ever. And funny metaphors. :smallconfused::smalltongue:

[DaggerPen]

"Let's not sully our relationship with cheap lies."

I do so love Blackwing.

Also, loving all the new art details. "My other airship is a carpet," heh. The cone of cold looks AMAZING, too.

And oh, right. Wizard.

[Tvtyrant]

I really liked this one. Everyone's character is prefectly revealed at once.

[MrZhun]

I love the way the new art does the cold effects. Absolutely beautiful. And may I say Giant that your writing is superb, the only webcomic I read! Good work :smile:

[DaggerPen]

I just realized that one of the propellers is broken in this. It definitely looks like they'll have to land for repairs, even if they avoid a crash landing.

[Dumbestupidiot]

I just realized that one of the propellers is broken in this. It definitely looks like they'll have to land for repairs, even if they avoid a crash landing.

Where are they gonna land? Durkon's hometown?

[Lordchoculla]

New comic is up.

Brilliant, thank you. Just brilliant :smallsmile:

[Trillium]

Even with all that character development, V still derives enjoyment from showy demonstrations of vir supreme arcane power.

Even if I drastically cut down on sweets, I can still enjoy that rare piece of candy - perhaps even more than before.

[Don Ohnic]

Incredibly cute animals in this scene. Poorly Blackwing, and sleeping Belkar companions. Aaaawww.

[Mrc.]

I've not been entirely sure what I thought about the new art style until this strip. Loving the wind effects and the magic. Keep up the good work!

[Grey Watcher]

Strange that V looks more feminine to me now.

Also, I dig his shoes... boots... whatever.

"Thank you, Elan, for that key situational context." I love V sometimes.

[Garwain]

Mr. Scruffy and Bloodfeast in an airship over the ocean. Reminds me of a biblical story.

The attention to even more detail than before is striking. So while the visual experience has improved, it's the story I'm comming back for.

[DaggerPen]

Where are they gonna land? Durkon's hometown?

That seems most likely, given the Durkon-centric nature of this arc and prophecies to be fulfilled.

[super dark33]

I like the hatch on the ballista turret.

So THATS how rhey reload it!

[Kodan]

I must be the least observant person on the planet.

I JUST noticed, after reading the comic since 2007ish, THAT V HAS BEEN WEARING A CLOAK SINCE COMIC 1

[Starwulf]

Hmm, not to much advancement plot wise, but it was quite funny with the "ray of frost" thrown in after the massive Cone of Cold. Poor Blackwing and being air-sick. I'm with V on this one, I find that very odd ^^

[BriarHobbit]

Yeah for V but his attension seems elsewhere.

[Lorin]

Woah. Mind = Blown. Like V's new look. And spell's special effects

[deuxhero]

The sticker says "my other airship is a carpet" right? Too tiny to tell the exact words even though the context/picture makes the general meaning clear.

[Enigma2Me]

Uh...did V accidentally freeze the propeller or something? Cuz s/he had a "...whoops" look on hi/r face in the last few panels.

[Karuth]

I was always more in the V is female team, but with the new look I am swinging over to more male. So yeah... great work in keeping V's gender in the dark ^^

In any case. Great new look on both comic and forum :3

[squidbreath]

V looks awesome. Loving the new art style.

[Belsirk]

Heheheh. Good old Vaarsuvius.:smallbiggrin:

But a very well rested Vaarsuvius :smallbiggrin:
And how different is his help with that.

But, the cone of cold damaged the engine ? (The picture show latent damage on them) Not sure how would apply all that suddenly cold upon metal (And anyway, the damage could be little compared the fire already made).


P.d. poor avians

[Ridureyu]

Mr. Scruffy is snuggling Bloodfeast in the exact same way that my cat snuggles my hand just before she becomes a hell-fiend made of steak knives and razor blades!

[dtilque]

What kind of scroll do you think V is scribing? And will it work covered with bird vomit?

My guess would be Sending, but perhaps I'm missing some better idea.

[CrispyCriminal]

Must warm a mage's heart to find an effective usage for ray of frost (at that level anyways).

And it also must make them cold and dead inside to extinguish such a passionate fire in the harsh rain.

[CRtwenty]

Mr. Scruffy and Bloodfeast cuddling in the first panel made my day.

Also V once again showing us why Wizards are a Tier 1 class.

[DaggerPen]

What kind of scroll do you think V is scribing? And will it work covered with bird vomit?

My guess would be Sending, but perhaps I'm missing some better idea.

It's Vaarsuvius, they're purple and they're letting off purple "steam" stuff. Explosive Runes, anyone? :smalltongue:

[Zombimode]

Hah! Knew V wasn't barefoot!

By the way, so it's still fairly rainy out there... does this mean V has way more concentration than he did when they fought Miko?

Rain by itself does not interfere with spellcasting. In the fight with Miko, V was hit by a tanglefoot bag. It was the tanglefoot bag's effect that required V to make concentration checks to successfully cast spells.

[Lkctgo]

"Let's not sully our relationship with cheap lies" AHAHAHAHA!

[dtilque]

It's Vaarsuvius, they're purple and they're letting off purple "steam" stuff. Explosive Runes, anyone? :smalltongue:

Could be, but I think unlikely. That Explosive Runes gag has been done to death. It's most likely going to be something more significant than that.

[Joseph_Lavode]

Loving the bumper sticker :smallbiggrin:

[Emperordaniel]

Could be, but I think unlikely. That Explosive Runes gag has been done to death. It's most likely going to be something more significant than that.

Which is why it's going to be the perfect opportunity to showcase V's new homebrewed spell: Explosiver
Runes! :smallwink::smalltongue:

I love V's new character design. :smallsmile:

[Derian]

But, the cone of cold damaged the engine ? (The picture show latent damage on them) Not sure how would apply all that suddenly cold upon metal (And anyway, the damage could be little compared the fire already made).




If I remember correctly, in 3.5, cold damage did 1/4 damage minus hardness to objects, so assuming the full 15d6 damage, that's an average of 52-53 cold damage, which leads to 12 damage. Steel typically has a hardness of 10, so it'd probably be only about 2 damage from the cold.

Most of the damage was probably from the lightning bolt, but now that the fire is out, they can rush to either make repairs or at least grab the controls and make it a controlled crash.

[Derian]

Which is why it's going to be the perfect opportunity to showcase V's new homebrewed spell: Explosiver
Runes! :smallwink::smalltongue:

I love V's new character design. :smallsmile:

I would squee loud enough to wake the entire city block if that happened.

And I've loved all the new character designs, but V's is pretty awesome, I admit.

[Boogastreehouse]

*


New comic is up.

Those are some cool shades your smilie is sportin' Mr. Giant.

Yep. Very cool.

*

[Mike Havran]

Strange that V looks more feminine to me now.

Also, I dig his shoes... boots... whatever.

"Thank you, Elan, for that key situational context." I love V sometimes.

Heh. My first thought after reading was that V looks so much more masculine now.

[warmachine]

As others have pointed out, in D&D, wizards have a wide range of powers and can change them every day whilst non-spellcasters can hit things very hard and maybe pick locks. At high levels, wizards own the place. I suspect the main reason high levels are played in D&D is that some players simply like hitting things very hard and the wizard players know it's more effective to control the battlefield and buff the warriors so they can hit harder, rather than try to blast things directly.

[Nilehus]

Even with all that character development, V still derives enjoyment from showy demonstrations of vir supreme arcane power.

People are going to keep saying this every time V casts anything bigger than a cantrip now, aren't they...

[Dumbestupidiot]

Scruffy and Bloodfeast laying in an airship
S N U G G L I N G (up)
First comes love
then comes marriage
then comes lots of M.I.T.D in a dark dark carriage

[Faltenin]

Beautiful and full of nice goodies... thanks Giant!

I loved the pet cuddles :smallsmile: and they way you can practically hear V thinking "and here I am with all these high level spells, with nothing to use them on..." creating scrolls, casting Fly instead of walking up!

[Khay]

That is how you use a cantrip!

It's possible - likely, even - that I'm just hallucinating, but I like how this strip mirrors the situation in 504 and 505, except with slightly more emotional maturity. If that wasn't intended... well, it's still kinda cool.

[Quild]

I really love the effect on the cape when V turns back.

[Faltenin]

Hmmm... interesting to see that just after a battle of "let's see who can cast the most spells," V decides to stock up on extra ammunition by creating scrolls. Some smart strategic thinking there and learning lessons from past encounters :smallcool:

[talkamancer]

Oh yeah, Wizard.

[Tundar]

V seems to be flying when coming up from below deck.
Is that a permanent spell now as standard duration is 1min / level?

[Kyle Lionheart]

My thoughts on the art since this new arc began:


#947: huh. this looks...strange. Is is because I've not read this for more of a month? *checks #946*. Uh. No, it's definitely different *back to #947* Ok, new art WHAT THE HECK ARE THOSE THINGS ON THE SIDES OF DURKON? Where are the sticks? This is horrible.

#948: Ok, I don't like it, but maybe I just need to get used to...wait...what...what IS that thing? Is it a mutant Roy? UGH. This is getting worse. I should de-lurk on the forum for a rant! Maybe later.

#949: Mmm. This looks a little better. The environmental effect, not bad at all. The characters seem decent too, now. Maybe Rich just needed a little practice with the style?

#950: Oh. My. What was I thinking? This new style is great! Look at V! Look at the cold effect! Look...*notices Scruffy and Bloodfeast cuddling* *squees*. Great. Now I need to go punch something or I'll never feel manly again.

So...yeah. Complete turnaround. Great work Rich, I swear I'll never doubt you again.
Just, please, shorten Roy's arm a little, or make them thicker, or something. It's the only thing that still grosses me out a little :smalleek:


V seems to be flying when coming up from below deck.
Is that a permanent spell now as standard duration is 1min / level?

Overland Flight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/overlandFlight.htm) is 1 hour/level, so quite enough for a typical day ;)

[Khay]

V seems to be flying when coming up from below deck.
Is that a permanent spell now as standard duration is 1min / level?

If you lived on an airship, wouldn't you prepare all the Fly and Feather Fall spells you could possibly get?

And given how often V is seen flying, I think it's a safe bet that they either got the longer-duration spell house-ruled in, or that it is, in fact, a permanent spell.

/EDIT: Or, erm, Overland Flight as described below. Derp.

[CRtwenty]

V seems to be flying when coming up from below deck.
Is that a permanent spell now as standard duration is 1min / level?

It's most likely Overland Flight which has a duration of 1 hour per level.

[thatSeniorGuy]

Love the dialog between V and Blackwing as usual; Blackwing's last line is the winner for this strip. Other notables:

Belkar's pets snuggling together, daaawwwww.
Cone of cold effect, oh my goodness.
The Mechane's sticker.

[Mike Havran]

Is it just me or the elder man with an eyepatch on panel 5 looks more transparent than the PCs, almost like a ghost?

[Ashram]

And that kids, is why V doesn't get much screentime to make with the magics.

S/he can solve anything. (Unless it's conjuration or transmutation).

[Dread_Head]

Mr Scruffy and Bloodfeast are spooning! best thing ever!

And the art for that cone of cold is sweet.

[Emperordaniel]

Scruffy and Bloodfeast laying in an airship
S N U G G L I N G (up)
First comes love
then comes marriage
then comes lots of M.I.T.D in a dark dark carriage

The Semi-Secret Origins of the Monster in the Darkness - now we just have to toss some time travel in there and we're good to go! :smallbiggrin:

[elros]

"Let's not sully our relationship with cheap lies."

I do so love Blackwing.

Also, loving all the new art details. "My other airship is a carpet," heh. The cone of cold looks AMAZING, too.

And oh, right. Wizard.
I don't understand Blackwing's line about cheap lies. What am I missing?

[zimmerwald1915]

I don't understand Blackwing's line about cheap lies. What am I missing?
He's saying he'll probably vomit on V's scroll no matter what he says.


Is it just me or the elder man with an eyepatch on panel 5 looks more transparent than the PCs, almost like a ghost?
His coloring is as opaque as ever. It's just that he's in the background, and so gets a bluer/grayer outline (and is possibly covered by a blue/gray filter), much in the same way the ladder leading to V's quarters does. It's a way of showing perspective.

I've been waiting with bated breath for a look at the "caster" body plan. Today's strip delivers.

EDIT: ah, nice touch with the "has the area been evacuated" line.

[themunck]

I don't understand Blackwing's line about cheap lies. What am I missing?


He's basically that if he were to promise not to vomit on V's scroll, said promise would be a lie.

[Anarion]

This comic was chock full of great moments. Mr. Scruffy cuddling bloodfeast, the little bit of arcane energy on V's scroll, the airship bumper sticker, and of course the ray of frost.

That said, I'm actually not the biggest fan of V's art redo. The little details are good (boots, yay!), but there's something about the overall character face and hair that feels too blocky to me. I liked V's older hair better. Still, I'm happy to see the whole Order now introduced in glorious new art style, along with a few demonstrations of their stuff. The cone of cold looked really cool.


I don't understand Blackwing's line about cheap lies. What am I missing?

He's going to vomit on the scroll, and he doesn't want to lie to Vaarsuvius about it.

[Brisingry]

I don't understand Blackwing's line about cheap lies. What am I missing?

I'm going to get swordsage'd, but I'll answer this anyways. V is asking for a promise that Blackwing won't vomit on the scroll, and Blackwing instead counters that he won't make cheap lies to V, and so Blackwing is saying that he can't promise that he won't vomit on the scroll.

[Killer Angel]

Ray of Frost. That's Style, V.! :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, Blackwing is the winner of this strip...:smalltongue:

[svankensen]

I actually hated the art upgrade until that cone of cold.

Good use of perspective, lots of details, and a more serious sword and sorcery feel overall (not that silly was ever wrong here).

Well done giant.

[AgitoSasaki]

Ravens can vomit?

That aside, the attention to detail continues to astound me. Bloodfeast and Mr. Scruffy in the corner, the big "bumper" sticker, V's robe, ponytail and the little ends of his ropebelt-thingy swaying in the wind, the upgrades to the spell effects...It all looks great!

Ah, V. Ever the snarky wizard. Truly an inspiration.

[dtilque]

Hmmm... interesting to see that just after a battle of "let's see who can cast the most spells," V decides to stock up on extra ammunition by creating scrolls. Some smart strategic thinking there and learning lessons from past encounters :smallcool:

Actually, that lesson should have been learned during the battle at Azure City, when he ran out of spells. But this isn't the first time V's scribing of scrolls (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0125.html) has come up. But except for the Dismissal spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0424.html) in the aforesaid battle, I don't recall him ever using a scroll. And note that those scrolls were purchased, not scribed by V.

Thus it's hard to say whether that particular scroll will show up in some furture encounter or battle. Since which spell is being scribed is not revealed, I suspect it won't.

[Chantelune]

Awesome page, reminds me once again why I so love that comic. :smallbiggrin:

[grandpheonix]

V is definately a girl. Suvie is the best!

[CRtwenty]

Ravens can vomit?

How else would they feed their babies?

[Phybender]

I had some hope that the art enhancement would reveal a tiny weeny bit about the gender of V. How flawed my assumptions were...


Is it just me or the elder man with an eyepatch on panel 5 looks more transparent than the PCs, almost like a ghost?

Rain does that. also for the perspective.

V has inspected the damage and realised that engines are no-go any more, hence the disappointment. The engine damage was done by the huge bolt that ignited the fire initially.

Amazing physics detail on the direction of rain and V's hair tail.

[Unregistered]

I must be the least observant person on the planet.

I JUST noticed, after reading the comic since 2007ish, THAT V HAS BEEN WEARING A CLOAK SINCE COMIC 1

That is indeed impressive; kudos!

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

"My other airship is a carpet," which I would expect from Julio more so than "Thor is my co-pilot".

Also, was Blackwing seasick the entire time they were on a boat with the Azurites?

[Storm_Of_Snow]

Poor Blackwing and being air-sick. I'm with V on this one, I find that very odd ^^

Not really, when Blackwing's flying, he can see the horizon or other objects to reference from, so his eyes and his sense of balance are telling him exactly the same thing about how he's moving around.

In V's cabin, his eyes are looking at the walls and the objects in the room and are telling him that everything's still and not moving, while his sense of balance is telling him that he's moving around (I assume birds have semi-circular canals like we do) - if V got him upstairs so he could see the horizon, Blackwing would probably start feeling a lot better.

Plus Blackwing's a lot smaller and much more agile than the airship, so he may be able to skirt around air turbulence and thus generally be unaffected by it. And when he's flying, Blackwing's concentrating on avoiding things and finding helpful thermals, so he wouldn't really have the time to think about it and feel ill, while in V's cabin, he's sitting around with nothing to do except think about how the airship is rolling, pitching, yawing, sliding from side to side, could potentially suddenly hit turbulence... :smallyuk:

[Ionbound]

Surprised no one's made this joke yet.

Spellcasting: F-W-O-O-O-O-S-H

[Keltest]

I am suddenly reminded why V was my favorite character for the longest time. Poor elf really didn't have much time to show off in the last book.

[Osiris]

Using Evocation for purposes other than blasting? I'm glad to see that you can. :smallsmile:
Also, :vaarsuvius:: Ray of Frost.
No, don't just step on it to extinguish the fire, use a cantrip. Well, it would be what I would do, so I can't talk :P

[Necris Omega]

Cone of Cold!
Ray of Frost!
Bugsby's Well-timed Mike Drop!

[kivzirrum]

That is how you use a cantrip!

It's possible - likely, even - that I'm just hallucinating, but I like how this strip mirrors the situation in 504 and 505, except with slightly more emotional maturity. If that wasn't intended... well, it's still kinda cool.

I thought the same thing.

Also Mr. Scruffy cuddling with Bloodfeast is just the most adorable thing I've ever seen.

[FullStop]

Using Evocation for purposes other than blasting? I'm glad to see that you can. :smallsmile:
Also, :vaarsuvius:: Ray of Frost.
No, don't just step on it to extinguish the fire, use a cantrip. Well, it would be what I would do, so I can't talk :P

Plus, it'd involve a detour. V's much too badass a wizard to be diverted by so small a distraction.

[Ron Miel]

Also, was Blackwing seasick the entire time they were on a boat with the Azurites?

Probably not. We saw only calm seas. People get seasick from being tossed about a bit.



Surprised no one's made this joke yet.

Spellcasting: F-W-O-O-O-O-S-H


What joke?

[zimmerwald1915]

Plus, it'd involve a detour. V's much too badass a wizard to be diverted by so small a distraction.
:vaarsuvius: I have ascertained a fantastic quantity of knowledge over the course of this series of detours my comrades and I euphemistically dub an adventure. Among that knowledge is a nugget I had not considered throughout the foregoing portion of my long Elven life. I have come to understand that preparation, planning, and strategy are merely fictions we repeat to ourselves in order to maintain the illusion that we have some minute iota of control over how our lives will unfold. Only two things truly matter: cynicism in as great a concentration as you can muster, and style. And in a pinch, cynicism can slide.

What? There is only one other character who's used ray of frost before.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Oh man, I was waiting for V to show up! And you didn't disappoint!

Does anyone else here feel like V has checked out mentally? S/He seems so distracted here.

[Storm_Of_Snow]

Probably not. We saw only calm seas. People get seasick from being tossed about a bit.

Blackwing wasn't there - Blackwing popped in and out in #440 when V tried to use him to distract the Death Knight (lampshaded with V saying Blackwing's been by his side the entire time), then the next time we see Blackwing is in #658, when V gives him Xykon's phylactery to throw into the rift.

Blackwing's only been a permenant fixture since he popped back on the boat to Sandsedge in #672.

[zimmerwald1915]

S/He seems so distracted here.
You mean her clipped demeanor when talking to Haley and flat affect on deck? I got blasé from that, personally.

[pendell]

"Let's not sully our relationship with cheap lies."

EXCELLENT line. Way to go, Blackwing!


So .. what do we learn from this?

1) V is a great deal more controlled than previously in use of magic. I notice that V took the time to ASK if the area was clear before unleashing a cone of cold. Xykon wouldn't have cared, or simply fired it off to deliberately kill as many crew as possible for the entertainment value. We saw something similar in SOD.

2) The relationship between V, scruffy, Bloodfeast, and Bloodwing is improved greatly.


Thought. What about a short one or two page joke strip starring JUST the animal companions of the Order? We now have three -- throw in Banjo and that's one side kick for all of the currently-living members.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[CRtwenty]

Using Evocation for purposes other than blasting? I'm glad to see that you can. :smallsmile:
Also, :vaarsuvius:: Ray of Frost.
No, don't just step on it to extinguish the fire, use a cantrip. Well, it would be what I would do, so I can't talk :P

Well that's about all that level 0 spells are useful for. I can't exactly blame V here.

[FlameOfFaith]

As a pyromaniac in the playground, I have to point out that burning is an exothermic reaction, and as such, fire burns faster in the cold. I've never actually tried it (being more of a martial character myself), but I'm pretty sure the cone of cold would only help the fire. Also, I question Vaarsuvius' intelligence score for not knowing this

[Doug Lampert]

Well that's about all that level 0 spells are useful for. I can't exactly blame V here.

By that level I'd have four Detect Magic's prepared. It actually gets more useful with level unless you permanency arcane sight (eyes don't glow, so no) or detect magic (no indication that V has done this).

Even if I had permanent detect magic I'd carry one or two in case I was dispelled.

But that would still leave the bonus spell for evocation, hmm, dancing lights, light, flare, and ray of frost. I guess we know which one V prepared, I'd have gone with one of the two light spells myself.

[littlebum2002]

As a pyromaniac in the playground, I have to point out that burning is an exothermic reaction, and as such, fire burns faster in the cold. I've never actually tried it (being more of a martial character myself), but I'm pretty sure the cone of cold would only help the fire. Also, I question Vaarsuvius' intelligence score for not knowing this

In the Real World, sure, but the description for Cone of Cold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/coneOfCold.htm) says that it "drains heat" which would presumably bring the wood temperature down below the fire point.



Also, does anyone else think the entire point of this strip was to show off how cool the spells look in the new art style?

[Doug Lampert]

As a pyromaniac in the playground, I have to point out that burning is an exothermic reaction, and as such, fire burns faster in the cold. I've never actually tried it (being more of a martial character myself), but I'm pretty sure the cone of cold would only help the fire. Also, I question Vaarsuvius' intelligence score for not knowing this

Fire does not burn faster in the cold, there's nothing about being exothermic that would make fire burn faster. If a fire does not burn fast enough it will go out in the cold, so all fires in the cold are fast burning, but fires lack a survival instinct or any other feedback mechanism for this to cause them to burn faster on their own.

If a fire isn't fast in the heat it will not be fast in the cold, and any given material will burn slower in the cold.

Heat driven machines can function more efficiently in the cold if designed correctly (lower heat sink temperature), but again, this doesn't apply to a fire that is just burning.

[Psyren]

Okay Giant, now you're just showing off with the snazzy new art. Admit it, the whole reason for the fire is so we can see how far your special effects (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0041.html) have come :smallcool:

[CRtwenty]

In the Real World, sure, but the description for Cone of Cold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/coneOfCold.htm) says that it "drains heat" which would presumably bring the wood temperature down below the fire point.



Also, does anyone else think the entire point of this strip was to show off how cool the spells look in the new art style?

Well that and to show V being a complete and total badass. :smallbiggrin:

[Keltest]

In the Real World, sure, but the description for Cone of Cold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/coneOfCold.htm) says that it "drains heat" which would presumably bring the wood temperature down below the fire point.



Also, does anyone else think the entire point of this strip was to show off how cool the spells look in the new art style?

the spells and V.

[Gift Jeraff]

So do Belkar and V share the same room? Granted, V does not sleep, but still...OTP.

I think V's redesign looks the best, and for some reason I think s/he looks both more masculine and more feminine.


We now have three -- throw in Banjo and that's one side kick for all of the currently-living members.

So what happened to Roy and Haley and why does Belkar count as two people?


Okay Giant, now you're just showing off with the snazzy new art. Admit it, the whole reason for the fire is so we can see how far your special effects (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0041.html) have come :smallcool:

I actually prefer that strip's depiction of it.

[sengmeng]

So that's what rays of frost are for...

[zimmerwald1915]

But that would still leave the bonus spell for evocation, hmm, dancing lights, light, flare, and ray of frost. I guess we know which one V prepared, I'd have gone with one of the two light spells myself.
You don't actually get bonus cantrip slots for high Intelligence or specializing. It's one of those weird parts of the magic system. Apart from being, well, magic.

As for detect magic, V anticipated being aboard a confined place covered in strong or possibly overwhelming Abjuration auras (her own!) and scrying bafflers for an extended period. Detect magic is best when you're expecting to discover and need to examine something new, not when you're somewhere familiar with nothing novel going on.


So do Belkar and V share the same room? Granted, V does not sleep, but still...OTP.
:vaarsuvius: I room only with Miss Starshine.


I think V's redesign looks the best, and for some reason I think s/he looks both more masculine and more feminine.
Possible reasons: her feet are smaller than Haley's, and her robe is wider than Elan's vest.

[theinsulabot]

Cone of Cold!
Ray of Frost!
Bugsby's Well-timed Mike Drop!



...that may be the greatest thing I have ever read here on the forums.

V, RESEARCH THAT SPELL

[Ivrytwr]

Thanks Giant.
Blackwing, hehe, you so funny!
Mr. Scruffy and Bloodfeast sharing a nap, V writing out spells, except for Blackwing getting ready to hurl, it is much calmer below decks during a thunderstorm.
V 'flying' up the stairs?
Art upgrade is really nice.

[ManuelSacha]

Wierd. :smallconfused:
So, um... what's going on here?
Is there some hidden meaning to this strip, or was the message just "V is strong"?
We didn't need to be reminded of that, but whatever.

[ORione]

Wierd. :smallconfused:
So, um... what's going on here?
Is there some hidden meaning to this strip, or was the message just "V is strong"?
We didn't need to be reminded of that, but whatever.

I think the messages are twofold:
- "The engine is no longer on fire."
- "Check out how cool Vaarsuvius and their magic looks now."

[Knick]

Cue the Nostalgia Critic's "I'm a motherf***ing T-Rex!!"

Glad to see Scruffy and Bloodfeast again, too.

[Gift Jeraff]

:vaarsuvius: I room only with Miss Starshine.

That was before Haley and Elan were an item, though.

[Khiron]

Man, the new artwork is gorgeous!

Also, V is a boss. :smallamused:

[zimmerwald1915]

That was before Haley and Elan were an item, though.
V likes to watch :smallamused:

It's because I'm saying it that you know it isn't true.

[Stake A Vamp]

awww, Mr. scruffy cuddling with Bloodfeast the extremeinator. It's adorable

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I love the interaction between Blackwing and Vaarsuvius here, as well as Vaarsuvius's attitude toward Elan "Thank you, Elan, for that key situational context."

Also, that Cone of Cold looks amazing! :smallsmile:

And that kids, is why V doesn't get much screentime to make with the magics.

S/he can solve anything. (Unless it's conjuration or transmutation).

Necromancy, actually.

[Doxkid]

Okay Giant, now you're just showing off with the snazzy new art. Admit it, the whole reason for the fire is so we can see how far your special effects (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0041.html) have come :smallcool:

Basically, yeah. And to resolve some of the problems that arose in earlier strips...but everyone likes showing off every now and then.

Just don't do it too much or your friends will try to outdo you while wearing a costume and swapping places to ensure that each of them can play to their strengths.

[Gift Jeraff]

V likes to watch :smallamused:

It's because I'm saying it that you know it isn't true.

So I guess V brought the cat just in case (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html).

[pendell]

As a pyromaniac in the playground, I have to point out that burning is an exothermic reaction, and as such, fire burns faster in the cold. I've never actually tried it (being more of a martial character myself), but I'm pretty sure the cone of cold would only help the fire. Also, I question Vaarsuvius' intelligence score for not knowing this

I'm afraid this is not true. Looked it up (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_triangle)



The fire tetrahedron represents the addition of a component, the chemical chain reaction, to the three already present in the fire triangle. Once a fire has started, the resulting exothermic chain reaction sustains the fire and allows it to continue until or unless at least one of the elements of the fire is blocked. Foam can be used to deny the fire the oxygen it needs. Water can be used to lower the temperature of the fuel below the ignition point or to remove or disperse the fuel. Halon can be used to remove free radicals and create a barrier of inert gas in a direct attack on the chemical reaction responsible for the fire.[3]

...

To stop a combustion reaction, one of the three elements of the fire-triangle has to be removed.

Without sufficient heat, a fire cannot begin, and it cannot continue. Heat can be removed by the application of a substance which reduces the amount of heat available to the fire reaction.


Thus, Cone of Cold would immediately remove the heat from the area, and extinguish the fire.

Actually, from a science perspective, the cone of cold would have to remain persistent for a period of time, possibly up to a full minute, in order to extinguish the reaction. I think a near-instantaneous cold event would cause the fire to flicker a bit, but if the temperature returned in the next instant it would not be enough to extinguish the fire. So V might have to chain several castings of Cone of Cold to get the necessary effect.

But that would take up additional panel space and would be less option. So I'll just take it as read that V extinguished the fire in one casting, so thoroughly removing the heat that the fire simply blinked out.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[zimmerwald1915]

So I guess V brought the cat just in case (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html).
Precisely!

[CoffeeIncluded]

I don't think the point of this strip is to show off the new special effects, though that's certainly a point.

Look at V. Look at hir actions, hir dialogue throughout the strip. V asks if there are bystanders who might be caught in the crossfire...er, crosscold. And then V doesn't stay to show off, but immediately heads downstairs without a word. This new V looks withdrawn, morose, tired. We're getting a glimpse into V's mental state here, and it's concerning.

Does everyone else know what V did, or does only Roy know?

[YossarianLives]

I love V's new shoes. I was slightly worried they'd look weird but i quite like them.

[Emperordaniel]

V likes to watch :smallamused:

It's because I'm saying it that you know it isn't true.


So I guess V brought the cat just in case (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html).

:smalleek:

I'll have one order of Brain Bleach(tm), please, extra-large.

...

...

...

...awww, who am I kidding? There's no such thing as Brain Bleach(tm), so now I'm going to be stuck with that mental image for the rest of the day. :smallyuk:

[Tykopulus]

Looks like a boring day for Vaarsuvius ;-) ( 2 Spells ... Problem solved ... next Problem, please ;-) )

[Jaxzan Proditor]

For some reason I can picture Vaarsuvius saying "can we please get back to saving the world now" again in this strip. :smalleek:

[Bitzer]

After haunting the forums for about a year now, I've finally made an account just to say this: Vaarsuvius looks amazing!

[Ashamam]

As a pyromaniac in the playground, I have to point out that burning is an exothermic reaction, and as such, fire burns faster in the cold. I've never actually tried it (being more of a martial character myself), but I'm pretty sure the cone of cold would only help the fire. Also, I question Vaarsuvius' intelligence score for not knowing this

That is not true of any exothermic reaction I'm aware of. Being an exothermic reaction just means that the end results of the reaction have less energy than the reagents and the excess is given off as waste heat. Despite this reactions generally all work faster the hotter the material is. The reason most exothermic reactions are cooled is in order to prevent the heat from the reaction from making the reaction continue faster and faster until it heats up uncontrollably and blows up in your face. So the cooling does not make it faster, it is actually simply slowing the reaction down to a manageable speed.

[evileeyore]

Loving V's look
Oh yes, my favorite character certainly is looking good.



Side Note: I just realized Vaarsuvius has been sporting a pony tail since the "Evil" version.

[Belkar<3]

That Cone of Cold spell look is so badass-loving the new detail.

[Amphiox]

As a pyromaniac in the playground, I have to point out that burning is an exothermic reaction, and as such, fire burns faster in the cold. I've never actually tried it (being more of a martial character myself), but I'm pretty sure the cone of cold would only help the fire. Also, I question Vaarsuvius' intelligence score for not knowing this

As others have pointed out if you lower the temperature of the fuel below the ignition point, combustion will cease.

There may also be secondary effects at play. The "fwoosh" sound effect implies that the spell is accompanied by wind. If not directly part of the casting effect, a sudden removal of thermal energy (ie heat) from an area, if that area included the air, would create a temperature differential that would prompt a wind to blow either into our out of the zone the spell effected. This could serve to pull the oxygen out of the area and help extinguish the flame (though it could also serve to FEED the fire with more oxygen as well, depending on circumstance).


I think a near-instantaneous cold event would cause the fire to flicker a bit, but if the temperature returned in the next instant it would not be enough to extinguish the fire. So V might have to chain several castings of Cone of Cold to get the necessary effect.

But that would take up additional panel space and would be less option. So I'll just take it as read that V extinguished the fire in one casting, so thoroughly removing the heat that the fire simply blinked out.


If we assume the effect is instantaneous but spread out over a volume of space, then the instant the spell ends, and "normal" physics takes over again, any heat remaining in the fuel source would have a tendency to be conducted outwards and spread over the whole area of the spell, and this effect could be enough to prevent the fuel from getting back to ignition temperature and restarting the fire. This effect might be amplified if there are substances in the surrounding area with a high heat capacity, though that would depend on whether or not the Cone of Cold spell works by removing a fixed amount of heat energy from an area, or if it works by lowering the temperature of the area of effect by a certain fixed amount. (In the first scenario, each material within the area will end up having its temperature lowered by a different amount, depending on its heat capacity, while in the second, each material within the area of effect will have had a different amount of total heat energy removed from it, depending on its heat capacity).



I note with interest that V chose to fly rather than climb a ladder, but s/he was content to walk down a different staircase on the way back down. Is this the same Flight spell s/he cast earlier, still in effect, or did V actually cast the spell again just to avoid climbing up a ladder?! But if it WAS the same Flight spell, would that not suggest that there has not been sufficient time for V to replenish his/her spells, and the fight with Laurin suggested V was out of high level spells, in which case, wither the level 6 Cone of Cold?

But if V DID replenish spells, I must ask why V had two cold spells prepared (or does s/he get the cantrip automatically no matter what) when the party was heading for the icy northern lands. At least for combat purposes one would expect most of the random enemies in a cold land should have cold resistance, for example. One would think that a wizard in that circumstance might just decide prepare something other than Cone of Cold in that spell slot.... Did V actually foresee the possible need for putting out fires, or was s/he just lucky?

[Coat]

That is not true of any exothermic reaction I'm aware of. Being an exothermic reaction just means that the end results of the reaction have less energy than the reagents and the excess is given off as waste heat. Despite this reactions generally all work faster the hotter the material is. The reason most exothermic reactions are cooled is in order to prevent the heat from the reaction from making the reaction continue faster and faster until it heats up uncontrollably and blows up in your face. So the cooling does not make it faster, it is actually simply slowing the reaction down to a manageable speed.

If it was a solution-phase exothermic reaction, and relatively reversible, then the colder the environment, the more entropy will result from the heat-generating direction, and the less likely the heat-consuming direction would be. So cooling the reaction might speed things up in that fairly specific situation. Provided that the cooling didn't bring the temperature down to the point where there isn't sufficient activation energy to start the reaction in the first place.

But I suspect that for a reaction that turns solid matter into hot gas, without a container, in an environment with gale-force winds, the rate of the reverse reaction and thus the importance of entropy is not going to be a big factor in a rate equation. Bringing down the ambient temperature so there isn't sufficient energy to start the oxidisation reaction - which has a pretty big activation energy - should be fairly effective.

Oh what, wait, this forum is about a comic?
Today's comic rocked.

[137beth]

I don't think the point of this strip is to show off the new special effects, though that's certainly a point.

Look at V. Look at hir actions, hir dialogue throughout the strip. V asks if there are bystanders who might be caught in the crossfire...er, crosscold. And then V doesn't stay to show off, but immediately heads downstairs without a word. This new V looks withdrawn, morose, tired. We're getting a glimpse into V's mental state here, and it's concerning.

Does everyone else know what V did, or does only Roy know?

Agreed, but I also think the purpose is to indicate that mundane issues like lightning aren't a problem for the party anymore. Consider how they use to be troubled by rain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html) and fire (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0241.html)

[Kish]

I don't think "having established that this is not a problem for the Order, the Mechane continues on its course" is in the cards.

[oppyu]

I think anyone debating the scientific validity of using a Cone of Cold spell to extinguish fire is probably putting far more thought into it than the Giant did.

[ORione]

I'm not 100% convinced that any magic spell would be faithful to our laws of physics.

[FolcoTook]

Well that's about all that level 0 spells are useful for. I can't exactly blame V here.

I still say wand of ray of frost = magical fire extinguisher.

[Mith]

V is amazing in the art upgrade!

[Tragak]

Necromancy, actually. Very well, then. Necromancy or Transmutation

:smalltongue:

[Sikon]

I like how some people think V looks more masculine and others, feminine. Personally my first thought was "more feminine", but comparing this strip with earlier ones now, I don't really see much change one way or the other, the new look is just... different - and I think it sells the gender ambiguity better than earlier strips, which tended to oscillate in either direction.

Then again, I have enough friends on all points of the gender spectrum that ambiguity is nothing for me to raise an eyebrow at. I personally hope V's gender will never be revealed, or if it is, it's some kind of genderqueer identity rather than one of the poles.

[Glodart]

Honestly?
Frigging Awesome. We finally saw the last four remaining members of the Order, and we saw the new art applied to big spells. The perspective is amazing considering it is a frigging comic with stick figures. Adorable scene with Belkar's Companions and hilarious discussion with Blackwing. As usual, V rocks. Thumbs up Giant!

[Vinsfeld]

I don't know why, but V seems more "manly" to me now.

[Cuthalion]

Meh. Not loving the hair change. But the rest is fun. :smallsmile:

[Mith]

Where is Blackwing's shiny? It has to be somewhere.

[Coldwind]

Boring, sorry. :/

[St Fan]

Meh. Not loving the hair change. But the rest is fun. :smallsmile:

I was about to say, "there's no hair change in sight", but then I checked first the previous strips to make sure my memory wasn't just failing me, and indeed Vaarsuvius' hairdo was slightly different in the previous story arc.

One could argue, though, that it isn't so much a change but just V's hair being cleaner and better groomed right now than before, nothing more. After all, after a full day trapsing in the desert and into a dungeon, even a wizard with access to prestidigitation for instant cleaning would end up a bit tussled at the end of the day.

[runeghost]

I've not been entirely sure what I thought about the new art style until this strip. Loving the wind effects and the magic. Keep up the good work!

Same here. I can't even point to any one thing, but the strip just worked. Great job and thank you!

[Breccia]

Situational context is a wonderful thing.

EDIT: Also:
:vaarsuvius:"Cone of Cold"
"Ray of Frost"
"Can we please get back to the in-flight movie now?"

[Mith]

Also, I love the bumper (stern?) sticker.

[fergo]

I don't think the point of this strip is to show off the new special effects, though that's certainly a point.

Look at V. Look at hir actions, hir dialogue throughout the strip. V asks if there are bystanders who might be caught in the crossfire...er, crosscold. And then V doesn't stay to show off, but immediately heads downstairs without a word. This new V looks withdrawn, morose, tired. We're getting a glimpse into V's mental state here, and it's concerning.

Does everyone else know what V did, or does only Roy know?

I don't know, I think I'll have to disagree.

I think this stip is a direct reference to #504 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0504.html) and the following strips. Then, V ignores the party's issues because s/he was too busy with personal stuff--the rest of the party's problems were simply not worth his/her time.

Now, s/he comes up immediately, helps out and instantly solves the problems to the best of his/her ability (in a pretty badass way that conveniently showcases the best of the new art style), and then goes back down again. As another poster said, blasé, confident, calm, sure of him/herself. Still aloof, of course, as V. has always been--but bound up in the struggles of the party and willing to do his/her best for the people around him/her.

We've seen a lot of V. being vulnerable over the last book--I think this is a deliberate attempt to show him/her growing from his/her experience, accepting the terrible things that he/she has done, and becoming stronger for it.

Two additional thoughts that I think support this view:


to a great extent, a lot of the action in the last few pages have been about showing off the new artwork. There's been a deliberate staggering off the Order: Durkon first, then Roy and Belkar, then Elan and Haley, and now V. To some extent we were due a strip focussing on V, so maybe we shouldn't try and read into it too much although of course this also counts against my attempted analysis above oh dear what am I to do lions and tigers and bears and all that
We've already had a lengthly subplot about V. becoming withdrawn, morose and tired, and it ended in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0635.html). Having a similar plot risks undoing all of the last book's character development, and in any case would be a bit repetitive

[Amphiox]

I still say wand of ray of frost = magical fire extinguisher.

Or, you could say fire extinguisher (or any similar device that blasts out a spray of some chemical) = technological wand of X (it isn't exactly the same as frost...). One can, after all, use a fire extinguisher as a weapon. Not very effectively, of course, but probably about as relatively effectively as your average cantrip. You could probably kill a bug or two with proper aim...


I'm not 100% convinced that any magic spell would be faithful to our laws of physics.

One would presume that once the spell is over, the normal laws of physics of the fictional universe take over and apply "normally". Most of the laws of physics need to have initial conditions supplied before the equations produce sensical results. In this case it would be simply having the spell effect as the initial conditions.

[Doug Lampert]

You don't actually get bonus cantrip slots for high Intelligence or specializing. It's one of those weird parts of the magic system. Apart from being, well, magic.

You don't get one for high int. You do get one for specialization:
SRD:

A school is one of eight groupings of spells, each defined by a common theme. If desired, a wizard may specialize in one school of magic (see below). Specialization allows a wizard to cast extra spells from her chosen school, but she then never learns to cast spells from some other schools.

A specialist wizard can prepare one additional spell of her specialty school per spell level each day. She also gains a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks to learn the spells of her chosen school.

There is no reference to level 0 spells or cantrips anywhere in the section on specialization, so you get a cantrip.

[AKA_Bait]

Whelp, there it is. I've now given the new art style four strips to grow on me and I continue to find it really, really unpalatable. I like the story, I've been following it for the better part of a decade, and up until now I've found all of the art "upgrades" to be improvements on the whole. The change in style, however, seems to be pushing my overall enjoyment of the comic into a net loss. I had a hard time even focusing on the dialog in the first panel because I found the artwork to be so jarring. I actually had to force myself to keep going through the rest of the panels in the hope that I'd hit some plot development. Hate to say it, but I'm seriously considering ceasing to read the strip anymore at this point, which is really saddening to me.

[malloyd]

If it was a solution-phase exothermic reaction, and relatively reversible, then the colder the environment, the more entropy will result from the heat-generating direction, and the less likely the heat-consuming direction would be. So cooling the reaction might speed things up in that fairly specific situation. Provided that the cooling didn't bring the temperature down to the point where there isn't sufficient activation energy to start the reaction in the first place.

More or less. Removing heat will drive an *equilibrium* reaction in the direction that generates heat. The key is that equilibrium. Flames aren't in equilibrium - the activation energy isn't the same in either direction. The point of equilibrium for a combustion reaction is well above the flame temperature - it's up there in the plasma range where everything is so hot the combustion products start dissociating.

[kivzirrum]

I like how some people think V looks more masculine and others, feminine. Personally my first thought was "more feminine", but comparing this strip with earlier ones now, I don't really see much change one way or the other, the new look is just... different - and I think it sells the gender ambiguity better than earlier strips, which tended to oscillate in either direction.

Then again, I have enough friends on all points of the gender spectrum that ambiguity is nothing for me to raise an eyebrow at. I personally hope V's gender will never be revealed, or if it is, it's some kind of genderqueer identity rather than one of the poles.

I agree wholeheartedly! It's awesome to see a major character whose gender identity is in no way relevant to the character. :smallsmile: If I recall correctly, Rich has said before that he has no intention of ever revealing V's "true" gender--I sincerely hope he does not change his mind!

V's gender is "badass," as far as I'm concerned. Or perhaps "remorseful badass," at this point.

[DaggerPen]

:vaarsuvius: I have ascertained a fantastic quantity of knowledge over the course of this series of detours my comrades and I euphemistically dub an adventure. Among that knowledge is a nugget I had not considered throughout the foregoing portion of my long Elven life. I have come to understand that preparation, planning, and strategy are merely fictions we repeat to ourselves in order to maintain the illusion that we have some minute iota of control over how our lives will unfold. Only two things truly matter: cynicism in as great a concentration as you can muster, and style. And in a pinch, cynicism can slide.

What? There is only one other character who's used ray of frost before.

*applause*


Then again, I have enough friends on all points of the gender spectrum that ambiguity is nothing for me to raise an eyebrow at. I personally hope V's gender will never be revealed, or if it is, it's some kind of genderqueer identity rather than one of the poles.

Very much agreed.


Where is Blackwing's shiny? It has to be somewhere.

Oh, good question! I'd really been expecting it to be in orbit around V when we next saw vir, but it's not here.

On an unrelated note: it occurs to me that V may be focusing on scribing a lot of scrolls now so that the resident party members with UMD (by which I mostly mean Haley) can use some of them during the times that V's soul is, ah, taking a break in the lower planes.

[Sartharina]

Cone of Cold is a snap freeze with an instantaneous duration - When it goes off, temperature doesn't 'return' as though it never left: the heat taken by the spell is now gone forever, and anything afflicted needs to re-heat itself through natural processes, such as from the surrounding air or still-functioning exothermic reactions (Fire, of course, is extinguished. But something like metabolism wouldn't be). There is no conservation of energy when Magic gets involved. The heat of the world 'Lost' to spells like Cone of Cold, ray of frost, freezing sphere, etc, and supernatural effects like a dragon's frost breath is made up for from the heat added to the world from spells like Fireball, Burning Hands, dragon fire breath, scorching ray, etc.

[zimmerwald1915]

There is no reference to level 0 spells or cantrips anywhere in the section on specialization, so you get a cantrip.
The PHB II gives some specialist wizard statblocks, including an elf evoker 1, a gnome enchanter 1, and a human diviner 1. Each has 3, not 4, cantrips prepared.

[Baphomet]

Good to see V has things under control; ice spells being used to extinguish fires is something I could certainly see being allowed to work around the gaming table, regardless of the actual physics behind it. Maybe the spell actually magically generates ice crystals in the area, as well? Or maybe the magical cold permeates the substances it strikes, sucking all the heat out entirely so there's no reason for the fire to continue? Whatever, it works.

One thing I just noticed about the new art is Haley's leather armor. It looks reasonably non-revealing, certainly less so than a top that shows her midriff, like she was wearing before she got this armor, and not really anything I would expect to see in Haley and Elan's "private time" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html), with or without the undershirt. She was still wearing that armor when we last saw her before the art change (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html). Did she upgrade her armor again or is it just the art style?

EDIT: I see this was discussed to death in the last thread. I apologize and table my concern for lack of cleavage-flaunting.

[Fellow]

It's a nice touch how the cooling of the cone of temporarily creates a draft towards it.

[Doug Lampert]

The PHB II gives some specialist wizard statblocks, including an elf evoker 1, a gnome enchanter 1, and a human diviner 1. Each has 3, not 4, cantrips prepared.

So? Since when has WotC been able to follow their own rules in their own examples. Consider the Burning Hate (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-general/threads/1115741). That's their canonical main example of a cleric in the PHB I casting a spell he's blatantly unable to cast by the rules, and leaving a slot open which is all your example requires isn't even a violation of the rules, it is in fact specifically called out as a thing wizards can do.

So EVEN IF example characters followed the rules rather than being masses of mistakes, your example would still not establish what you claim it does.

Care to cite even one word of actual rules that even hints that specialists don't get bonus cantrips? Because I quoted the primary source on player characters in the primary discussion of specialization and there's no ambiguity whatsoever, they get bonus cantrips for specialization.

[Lheticus]

Has anyone else noticed that V is now so badass that just by casting unrelated spells, she/he/xe/I really don't even care turned a ladder into stairs? :P Or was that a different hatch somehow? There's no way I can tell...

[Ionbound]

What joke?

It's a reference to Knightmare, an old British game show. It was a medieval setting, and there was a spellcasting system based on spelling. Hence me spelling out the sound effect. Not a very good joke, but eh.

[Gift Jeraff]

Has anyone else noticed that V is now so badass that just by casting unrelated spells, she/he/xe/I really don't even care turned a ladder into stairs? :P Or was that a different hatch somehow? There's no way I can tell...

The stairs are leading to the control panel from the previous strip.

[HandofShadows]

V looks great. Not all that happy though. Don't think V will be happy again for a long time. :smallfrown:

[AstralFire]

I definitely like V's new look.

Still don't like the elf though. :smallbiggrin:

[Stella]

Heh. "My other airship is a carpet."

Oh, and Mr. Scruffy and Bloodfeast are all cuddled up and it is adorable.Indeed! The lizard probably loves being able to snuggle with a warm blooded mammal.

I'm guessing that the scroll V is preparing reads "I prepared Exploding Runes today."

[dsavereide]

It looked to me like V cast the wrong spell, which caused one of the propellers to break off. Not exactly badass.

My question is, how can he cast the wrong spell? He said the Cone of Cold, how can that trigger Ray of Frost?

P.S. Once they hit land, can Bloodfeast be restored to his former glory?

[GKBeetle]

I like the new look of all the characters, but, ugh! I still hate those fleshy stick hands. They look so gross to me for some reason, like everyone has permanently disfigured hands. Can we keep the rest of the changes but go back to the old hands?

[ellindsey]

It looked to me like V cast the wrong spell, which caused one of the propellers to break off. Not exactly badass.

My question is, how can he cast the wrong spell? He said the Cone of Cold, how can that trigger Ray of Frost?


V cast Cone of Cold to put out the fire, and then cast Ray of Frost to put out a small piece of burning debris. Two different spells.

The broken propeller was caused by the lightning strike and fire, not by V's spells.

[AstralFire]

It looked to me like V cast the wrong spell, which caused one of the propellers to break off. Not exactly badass.

My question is, how can he cast the wrong spell? He said the Cone of Cold, how can that trigger Ray of Frost?

P.S. Once they hit land, can Bloodfeast be restored to his former glory?

Looks like the propeller was already broken, to me, actually. But even if it wasn't - Cone of Cold is a moderately damaging spell, the calculus Haley and V are using is that risking additional cold damage to the ship is better than letting a fire rage on and do certain fire damage to the ship and probably the crew. V cast two spells - first, cone of cold, then ray of frost (a minor spell, or cantrip) on his way down to fizzle an ember.

Durkon definitely and V probably has access to a spell that can undo the baleful poly on Bloodfeast, but I'm not sure either is inclined to do so.

[cybishop]

I don't think the point of this strip is to show off the new special effects, though that's certainly a point.

Look at V. Look at hir actions, hir dialogue throughout the strip. V asks if there are bystanders who might be caught in the crossfire...er, crosscold. And then V doesn't stay to show off, but immediately heads downstairs without a word. This new V looks withdrawn, morose, tired. We're getting a glimpse into V's mental state here, and it's concerning.
True, but not really news. This looks like a continuation of the contrition V showed Roy, that's all.


Does everyone else know what V did, or does only Roy know?

I would guess that everyone else knows the basics - V did something terrible, but in the process it cast doubt on the Snarl story in addition to what they saw in Girard's rift, and it may result in V going comatose at inconvenient times - but I have no idea whether they've been told all the rest. V is a fairly private person, and no one would want this kind of dirty laundry paraded out there. But on the other hand, well, a lot of the details are relevant to the team.


P.S. Once they hit land, can Bloodfeast be restored to his former glory?

Yes. The question is how useful it would be. They're going to arctic regions, and may wind up in Dwarven tunnels. Allosaurs are ill-adapted to either. For all we know, Bloodfeast will be polymorphed into a polar bear, not an allosaur.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

:vaarsuvius:"Cone of Cold"
"Ray of Frost"
"Can we please get back to the in-flight movie now?"

Where is the like buttons for posts!? :smallsmile:

[zimmerwald1915]

I like the new look of all the characters, but, ugh! I still hate those fleshy stick hands. They look so gross to me for some reason, like everyone has permanently disfigured hands. Can we keep the rest of the changes but go back to the old hands?
In a word, no. The limbs need to be thicker than they were before so as not to get lost in the larger designs (they're a little over four pixels thick at the moment, while the old limbs were about two pixels thick), and all-black 4-pixel limbs would draw the eye away from the faces, dialogue, and FX too readily. On the other hand (:smallamused:), the limbs as they are don't draw the eye unless dynamically posed, as evidenced by the sheer number of people saying they didn't notice the changes to the limbs until they were pointed out. There are good compositional reasons for way the limbs look, no matter how much they offend you conceptually.


Care to cite even one word of actual rules that even hints that specialists don't get bonus cantrips? Because I quoted the primary source on player characters in the primary discussion of specialization and there's no ambiguity whatsoever, they get bonus cantrips for specialization.
In isolation? I can't find anything. I do note that domain wizards don't get extra cantrips, and a reading of the whole rulebook, including that provision, the abilities and spellcasters provision, the printed NPC examples, suggests that specialist wizards aren't supposed to get bonus cantrips. But I just finished a statutory interpretation paper for RL, so I'm really not interested in carrying this debate further. I'll concede if it makes you happy.

[Doug Lampert]

In isolation? I can't find anything. I do note that domain wizards don't get extra cantrips, and a reading of the whole rulebook, including that provision, the abilities and spellcasters provision, the printed NPC examples, suggests that specialist wizards aren't supposed to get bonus cantrips. But I just finished a statutory interpretation paper for RL, so I'm really not interested in carrying this debate further. I'll concede if it makes you happy.

Domains don't have cantrips and this is explicit. Attributes don't give cantrips and this is explicit.

The equivalent language for specialists doesn't exist. Nor are any of the other examples phrased as general rules, but rather as exeptions when they are noted at all rather than just table entries.

I really don't see why you assume that specialists don't get cantrips (which is what "suggests" means you still assume) when there is no enabling rule for this interpretation and it goes against the plain wording of the actual rules.

I'll accept your concession, but not without first pointing out the irrelevant stuff you put in first in the hope of convincing someone that you're correct despite the plain meaning and wording of the rules.

So we're done. Specialists get extra cantrips.

[Kish]

Oh, good question! I'd really been expecting it to be in orbit around V when we next saw vir, but it's not here.
I will be amazed if Blackwing's shiny passes to Vaarsuvius' ownership without comment.

Assuming it was hers/his is totally something Vaarsuvius would have done 300 strips ago, but s/he trying to be better now.

[Worden]

Did she just used fly instead of climbing up the stairs?

[Kish]

Did she just used fly instead of climbing up the stairs?
For two fifth-level slots a day, Vaarsuvius can effectively fly at will. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/overlandFlight.htm).

[Emerald141]

The level of detail in this comic is fantastic! I'm really loving the new style. :smallbiggrin:

Now the only Order member we've yet to see in the new style is Bloodfeast!

[Keltest]

The level of detail in this comic is fantastic! I'm really loving the new style. :smallbiggrin:

Now the only Order member we've yet to see in the new style is Bloodfeast!

Bloodfeast was in the corner snuggled with Mr scruffy while in V's room.

[Socksy]

I'm still laughing at "My other airship is a carpet", not that several other people haven't pointed it out.

[rewinn]

For two fifth-level slots a day, Vaarsuvius can effectively fly at will. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/overlandFlight.htm).


... which is probably a wise precaution when travelling by airship ... especially when the canonical random encounter hasn't happened yet ... and it's also helpful in defending fighters ... just float out of reach and who needs a meat shield?

[NihhusHuotAliro]

So, I was hoping Vaarsuvius had those long shoes that curl at the end.

Mojari, jutti, those fancy soft ones with the curled toe. You know what I'm talking about. This is a high-level elf with clearly superior elven hearing and a clearly superior elven organ system that allows for no batroom breaks in a long time and doesn't need sleep, and clearly superior elven metabolism and redundancy that would drive you mad. Mad!

Clearly this elf deserves more clearly superior shoes of impractical comfy-ness instead of the no-nonsense, clumpy-clumpy, strong, worker boots of sturdy thickness.

I mean, Vaarsuvius learned magic in a literal ivory tower, adn said it was a poor omen for elves to do stonemasonry.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Very well, then. Necromancy or Transmutation

Conjuration and Necromancy. If V barred Transmutation, teleport would be an option.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Indeed! The lizard probably loves being able to snuggle with a warm blooded mammal.

I'm guessing that the scroll V is preparing reads "I prepared Exploding Runes today."

Well, the thing about us is that while we love warmth more than anything, we do get overheated and need to go into shade. IF we get too overheated, we go into paralysis and can't move, and get even hotter in the sun, and die. If we get too cold, the same thing, too cold, can't move, stay cold, get colder, die.

Remember, be careful with pet iguanas, you can actually kill them by overheating by cuddling with them too long. Or by lack of sunshine, lamp, or other heat. Or by too much sunshine, lamp, and other heat.

Best is a situation where there is warmth and shade. Like a sunny place with big rocks and some tunnels.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Conjuration and Necromancy. If V barred Transmutation, teleport would be an option.

I think he was joking because I wasn't being very specific about which one was wrong, hence the smiley.

[St Fan]

Domains don't have cantrips and this is explicit. Attributes don't give cantrips and this is explicit.

The equivalent language for specialists doesn't exist. Nor are any of the other examples phrased as general rules, but rather as exeptions when they are noted at all rather than just table entries.

I really don't see why you assume that specialists don't get cantrips (which is what "suggests" means you still assume) when there is no enabling rule for this interpretation and it goes against the plain wording of the actual rules.

I'll accept your concession, but not without first pointing out the irrelevant stuff you put in first in the hope of convincing someone that you're correct despite the plain meaning and wording of the rules.

So we're done. Specialists get extra cantrips.

Just wanted to point out that I agree, and that Zimmer was also wrong about Domain Wizards: they DO get an extra cantrip, just like specialists (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard).

It is clerical domains that don't grant any extra orisons.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Basically, yeah. And to resolve some of the problems that arose in earlier strips...but everyone likes showing off every now and then.

Just don't do it too much or your friends will try to outdo you while wearing a costume and swapping places to ensure that each of them can play to their strengths.

OH, so that's how the blessed Hungarians won the battle of Mohi and saved the world.

[Math_Mage]

That was not a sequence I would have expected to take up an entire update. Just sayin'.

[Dalek_Kolt]

I feel like V's design has been becoming more and more feminine as the art progresses and V changes appearances.

I dunno, maybe it's the smoother hair.

[Tragak]

Bloodfeast was in the corner snuggled with Mr scruffy while in V's room. Ahh, but that's just lizard Bloodfeast, not Alpha-and-Omega Predator "Seismosauruses make the Earth shake; Allosauruses make Seismosauruses shake" Bloodfeast :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbi ggrin::smallbiggrin:

[tigerusthegreat]

I don't like the flesh coloring of hands now. I liked it when they were black, it looked better.

[DaggerPen]

V looks great. Not all that happy though. Don't think V will be happy again for a long time. :smallfrown:

... When was the last time we've actually seen V happy?

[LordofNaught]

I believe the correct phrase for how V handled the situation is, "Like a boss!"

[Lexible]

That was not a sequence I would have expected to take up an entire update. Just sayin'.


It was there to show off the all new V, Blackwing, Mr. Scruffy and Bloodfeast artwork.

Plus the mic-drop at the end . . .

[Alaska Fan]

Is it just me or the elder man with an eyepatch on panel 5 looks more transparent than the PCs, almost like a ghost?

We've seen the guy earlier, in #948 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0948.html), Panel 10. He looks kind of washed out there, too. A bad thunderstorm can wash most anything out.

[Kish]

But if it WAS the same Flight spell, would that not suggest that there has not been sufficient time for V to replenish his/her spells,
The High Priest of Hel said that Durkon died three days ago.

I'm guessing that Vaarsuvius now keeps Overland Flight always active--like, probably, most ~level 16 wizards.

[Stella]

Care to cite even one word of actual rules that even hints that specialists don't get bonus cantrips? Because I quoted the primary source on player characters in the primary discussion of specialization and there's no ambiguity whatsoever, they get bonus cantrips for specialization.I see two possible places to reference for whether or not specialist Wizards get bonus spells of level 0.

The first is the table titled "Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells", which shows clearly that no amount of Intelligence is enough to grant extra cantrips per day. This has no logical basis, given that all other spells of levels 1-9 are able to have the amount per day increased by a high enough Intelligence. There is no reasonable argument that the most simple spells a Wizard knows should be unable to be increased just as the spells of levels 1-9 can be. But this table makes it clear that the intent was indeed to limit the number of cantrips per day while allowing, for example, up to 5 (or more, the table ends with "etc.") additional 1st level spells per day due to a high Intelligence.

The second is the notation under the description of specialist Wizards which reads:

A specialist wizard can prepare one additional spell of her specialty school per spell level each day. She also gains a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks to learn the spells of her chosen school.

This would tend to imply that a specialist Wizard would gain one cantrip per day as long as they choose one from their specialist school. But as has been mentioned by zimmerwald1915, it would not be at all out of character for WotC to have excluded the necessary text "of levels 1-9" in the written portion to be consistent with their limitation on cantrips per day due to high Int, while making their intent clear in the table.

I will note that zimmerwald1915 cites example specialist Wizards where they are granted their bonus spells of levels 1+, but not a bonus cantrip. I haven't gone hunting for these, but if he is correct then that gives a lot more weight to the argument that cantrips per day aren't supposed to be increased by any method. And if zimmerwald1915 is correct then it really comes down to each of you choosing to follow different sides of poorly written and conflicting rules. Which would make your challenge to find anything within the rules which suggests that zimmerwald1915 is correct a moot point.

In the end it comes down to one cantrip per day, and Wizards are already Tier 1 and won't be hurt no matter how any individual DM rules.

[Nevereatcars]

Oh, JOY. The "My time is too busy to be wasted on trifles like this" Vaarsuvius is back. Yaaaaaaaaaaay.

[Keltest]

Oh, JOY. The "My time is too busy to be wasted on trifles like this" Vaarsuvius is back. Yaaaaaaaaaaay.

I didn't read it like that at all. That V would certainly have griped a lot more if those were his feelings.

[Barnacle]

Whelp, there it is. I've now given the new art style four strips to grow on me and I continue to find it really, really unpalatable. I like the story, I've been following it for the better part of a decade, and up until now I've found all of the art "upgrades" to be improvements on the whole. The change in style, however, seems to be pushing my overall enjoyment of the comic into a net loss. I had a hard time even focusing on the dialog in the first panel because I found the artwork to be so jarring. I actually had to force myself to keep going through the rest of the panels in the hope that I'd hit some plot development. Hate to say it, but I'm seriously considering ceasing to read the strip anymore at this point, which is really saddening to me.

I have to agree with this somewhat. While I do think it looks lovely, and far prettier than the old strips, I think it can be a bit hard to focus on the dialogue and what's actually going on. For the fairly static scenes of V in his room it wasn't so bad. That makes me wonder if it's not just the misty/fog effect that's being used, since they're supposed to be on a rainy airship in the sky. The panels where little Durkon and his mother were outside were also easier to focus on/follow, whereas the murky red inner!Durkon panels in #948 were more troublesome to follow. I think it's just the lack of color and line contrasts that's going on. It doesn't help that evil-Durkon's dialogue is medium gray on a light gray bubble.

Plainer backgrounds and less details made the characters and their actions and dialogue bubbles stand out more.

[zimmerwald1915]

Oh, JOY. The "My time is too busy to be wasted on trifles like this" Vaarsuvius is back. Yaaaaaaaaaaay.
Jeez, lighten up. That sounds like something I would say :smalleek:

[BrotherMirtillo]

... When was the last time we've actually seen V happy?

Huh, good question.

I'm not counting moments that were only one panel unless it's the last panel, which leaves a better aftertaste.

There was a bit of happiness when V interviewed a potential recruit for the Order (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html).

Before that, I recall nothing after V defended an ancient truism of elemental warfare (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0424.html). The celebrations dried up rather quickly after that.

Personally, I prefer the shared joy at Haley's restoration (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0398.html).

...That was a rather lower yield than I expected. :smalleek:

[Amphiox]

Will the scroll V is transcribing turn out to be plot significant?

Small significance - it's a regular spell scroll, and she will give it to one of her teammates to use later.

Huge significance - V is trying to homebrew some kind of new magic that will help his atonement for familicide (this would of course suggest that V's character growth vis-a-vis using arcane power to solve all her problems isn't complete yet....)

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Oh, JOY. The "My time is too busy to be wasted on trifles like this" Vaarsuvius is back. Yaaaaaaaaaaay.


Jeez, lighten up. That sounds like something I would say :smalleek:

If even zimmerwald is telling you to lighten up about something related to Vaarsuvius, then you know there's something wrong.

[jere7my]

Has anyone else noticed that V is now so badass that just by casting unrelated spells, she/he/xe/I really don't even care turned a ladder into stairs? :P Or was that a different hatch somehow? There's no way I can tell...

Those are the stairs to the poopdeck. If you look at the FWOOSH panel, you can see that the poopdeck is above the level of the main deck. Vaarsuvius is looking up at it in panel 5, and standing on it (or descending from it) in the next six panels.

[PallElendro]

Hah! Knew V wasn't barefoot!

By the way, so it's still fairly rainy out there... does this mean V has way more concentration than he did when they fought Miko?

Probably helped that Vaarsuvius wasn't stuck by a tanglefoot bag.

[zimmerwald1915]

Small significance - it's a regular spell scroll, and she will give it to one of her teammates to use later.
This was suggested in a somewhat different form upthread: that V is scribing scrolls to allow Haley to cover for her the next time she goes AWOL.

[Fralex]

Thing I just noticed: Why does Rich now color fires with the orange on the inside and the yellow outside? Isn't the way he used to color them more correct?

[Bovius]

I don't think the point of this strip is to show off the new special effects, though that's certainly a point.

Look at V. Look at hir actions, hir dialogue throughout the strip. V asks if there are bystanders who might be caught in the crossfire...er, crosscold. And then V doesn't stay to show off, but immediately heads downstairs without a word. This new V looks withdrawn, morose, tired. We're getting a glimpse into V's mental state here, and it's concerning.

Does everyone else know what V did, or does only Roy know?

This is my favorite strip in a while, and not because of the new art, although I do like that. I think there's a lot going on here in V's head that we aren't being told yet, but I have some suspicions, and I really hope they're right.

Speculation: V has come to terms with hir predicament re: soul time, and is using hir strengths to make the most out of it. I see the beat panel at the bottom of the strip as V taking a mental note, that they did not choose to collect one of his debts to prevent hir from putting the fire out, saving the ship and its passengers. That tells V something about what their goals are, and that's knowledge V can use to hir advantage. It's grim and the situation sucks, but s/he's smart enough, and now emotionally stable enough, to actually do something with it and turn their contract against them. I think by the time the contract has been fulfilled, V will be able to use this to gather a lot of intel about what's going on.

[Stealth]

I like this. Admittedly, I'm not entirely sure what emotion V is expressing in those last few panels, but it seems... thoughtful? Introspective perhaps? Thinking about how in prior times shi would have scorned the use of hir magic in such a fashion, or considering what shi's learned since then?

The Ray of Frost was good for a chuckle, and Blackwing naturally gets the best lines.

[hamishspence]

Thing I just noticed: Why does Rich now color fires with the orange on the inside and the yellow outside? Isn't the way he used to color them more correct?

Possibly it looked better against a sandy background - and it's a holdover from that?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0919.html

[Adeptus]

I love how V is just not feelig the drama. I guess after all he/she has been through, a little buffeting and storm damage on an airship is fairly dull.

[kivzirrum]

Oh, JOY. The "My time is too busy to be wasted on trifles like this" Vaarsuvius is back. Yaaaaaaaaaaay.

Really? I mean, fair enough, if that's what you got out of it. But V didn't raise a single complaint--not only that, but notice that panel 3 is Haley calling for V to help, and panel 4 shows him already on his feet, heading out. Personally, I thought the lack of any sort of beat or reaction panel implied that V immediately responded, and once above deck, he quickly put his powers to good use. Sure, he gave Elan some snark, but if he didn't, then we'd really be concerned for the elf's mental well-being.

Personally, I thought that all this showed V's continued willingness to work as part of a team, despite the ongoing issues with his deal with the IFCC. After a whole arc dedicated to V's development, having him suddenly return to his attitude at the beginning of Don't Split the Party would be quite tiresome.

[Lyracian]

Oh, and Mr. Scruffy and Bloodfeast are all cuddled up and it is adorable.
I love that bit too! :smallsmile:

[Glodart]

Mr Sruffy, Blackwing and Bloodfeast didn't change one bit and I am agreeing with that choice. Keep the animals simple but awesome.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I will note that zimmerwald1915 cites example specialist Wizards where they are granted their bonus spells of levels 1+, but not a bonus cantrip. I haven't gone hunting for these, but if he is correct then that gives a lot more weight to the argument that cantrips per day aren't supposed to be increased by any method. And if zimmerwald1915 is correct then it really comes down to each of you choosing to follow different sides of poorly written and conflicting rules. Which would make your challenge to find anything within the rules which suggests that zimmerwald1915 is correct a moot point.

Any argument that involves statblocks is inherently weak, given WotC's ability to screw those up. Honestly, after reading Cooper's column for a few months, I stopped using them entirely.

[Keltest]

Any argument that involves statblocks is inherently weak, given WotC's ability to screw those up. Honestly, after reading Cooper's column for a few months, I stopped using them entirely.

If the statblocks are contradicted by the RaW, then id agree. As support for something that isn't mentioned at all, theyre at least another piece of evidence.

[sidhe3141]

I noticed something that seems a bit... off. There's flames that the Cone of Cold didn't reach because the deck was blocking line of effect to them (bottom of Panel 8), but that could have been gotten easily if V had used Overland Flight to get behind the Mechane.

[Baphomet]

Does V have a zigzag pattern on the end of their cloak or are those embroidered runes of some sort? I would expect the art style upgrade to make that clearer. On the other hand, drawing actual runes every panel with V in it would probably be a waste of time for Rich, plus there's the fact that the eye tends to get drawn to things that look like letters.

Also, I'm not sure how the cloak pattern works. It looks like the fabric is overall a rectangle shape, with one of the short sides at the bottom and the other short side encircling V's neck and connecting at the front with some sort of clasp. You know, like when you play superhero using a towel as a cape. But, when viewed from the front, there seem to be runes/patterns along the edge looping over V's shoulders, which would mean that they run down the side of the cloak. But, when we see V from the back, there's nothing there; the pattern isn't visible.

Just can't enjoy the comic, no attention to detail, Rich is a bad artist, etc.

[Keltest]

Does V have a zigzag pattern on the end of their cloak or are those embroidered runes of some sort? I would expect the art style upgrade to make that clearer. On the other hand, drawing actual runes every panel with V in it would probably be a waste of time for Rich, plus there's the fact that the eye tends to get drawn to things that look like letters.

Also, I'm not sure how the cloak pattern works. It looks like the fabric is overall a rectangle shape, with one of the short sides at the bottom and the other short side encircling V's neck and connecting at the front with some sort of clasp. You know, like when you play superhero using a towel as a cape. But, when viewed from the front, there seem to be runes/patterns along the edge looping over V's shoulders, which would mean that they run down the side of the cloak. But, when we see V from the back, there's nothing there; the pattern isn't visible.

Just can't enjoy the comic, no attention to detail, Rich is a bad artist, etc.

Theyre squiggles.

[DaggerPen]

Does V have a zigzag pattern on the end of their cloak or are those embroidered runes of some sort? I would expect the art style upgrade to make that clearer. On the other hand, drawing actual runes every panel with V in it would probably be a waste of time for Rich, plus there's the fact that the eye tends to get drawn to things that look like letters.

I think they're just squiggles.


Also, I'm not sure how the cloak pattern works. It looks like the fabric is overall a rectangle shape, with one of the short sides at the bottom and the other short side encircling V's neck and connecting at the front with some sort of clasp. You know, like when you play superhero using a towel as a cape. But, when viewed from the front, there seem to be runes/patterns along the edge looping over V's shoulders, which would mean that they run down the side of the cloak. But, when we see V from the back, there's nothing there; the pattern isn't visible.


The squiggle pattern turns in to end at the neck. Fourth panel. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0935.html) Not entirely sure what its contour will be now that the neck of V's cloak/cape goes farther down the shoulders, but I imagine it'll be similar.

[HeeJay]

... When was the last time we've actually seen V happy?

Happiest V ever (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0635.html)

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Happiest V ever (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0635.html)

That look gives me chills every time I see it.

On the plus side, with the red on a black background, I think it becomes pretty easy to tell that the marking's on Vaarsuvius's cloak are squiggles.

[Tobimaro]

And now we see that the Ray of Frost spell can in fact be useful. :smallamused:

[super dark33]

And now we see that the Ray of Frost spell can in fact be useful. :smallamused:

Weve already seen it before.
Here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0542.html)

[Rogar Demonblud]

If the statblocks are contradicted by the RaW, then I'd agree. As support for something that isn't mentioned at all, theyre at least another piece of evidence.

If WotC can't even do something as simple as correctly calculate Saves, I have no faith that they didn't just forget to add the bonus cantrips. Given some other editing snafus in the errata, I can also believe they screwed up writing the rules in question.

As you can probably guess, I gave up on 3E a while ago. Needing more binders of errata than rulebooks at the table is never a good sign.

[Keltest]

If WotC can't even do something as simple as correctly calculate Saves, I have no faith that they didn't just forget to add the bonus cantrips. Given some other editing snafus in the errata, I can also believe they screwed up writing the rules in question.

As you can probably guess, I gave up on 3E a while ago. Needing more binders of errata than rulebooks at the table is never a good sign.

Like I said, its no good by itself. But combined with all the other evidence, its just another nail in the coffin.

dang it, I keep wanting to spell it Nale.

[Phybender]

As a pyromaniac in the playground, I have to point out that burning is an exothermic reaction, and as such, fire burns faster in the cold. I've never actually tried it (being more of a martial character myself), but I'm pretty sure the cone of cold would only help the fire. Also, I question Vaarsuvius' intelligence score for not knowing this

Well, not quite. This is because almost all exothermic reactions require an activation energy. What V did there is taking out the existent energy from the last material to combust. In real world, this energy is the activation for climbing the potential barrier between no reaction and reaction.


materials scientist here :smallwink:

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activation_energy

[Tragak]

dang it, I keep wanting to spell it Nale. :smallfrown: A moment of silence for the strip's second-most-long-winded speaker.



:smallwink:

[Teapot Salty]

Did the giant seriously go back and add V's cloak to all the strips? I can't remember if it was there before.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Did the giant seriously go back and add V's cloak to all the strips? I can't remember if it was there before.

It was there. It's always been there. Unless the Giant has found a way to bend reality.

[jere7my]

Did the giant seriously go back and add V's cloak to all the strips? I can't remember if it was there before.

That's what he said on Twitter. If you check the printed books, you'll see that she never had a cloak before.

Other changes that he didn't mention: Blackwing was an owl up until the latest strip, and every time we saw Roy he was carrying a hurdy-gurdy.

[oppyu]

That's what he said on Twitter. If you check the printed books, you'll see that she never had a cloak before.

Other changes that he didn't mention: Blackwing was an owl up until the latest strip, and every time we saw Roy he was carrying a hurdy-gurdy.
Huh, I actually went back to the digital copies of the OOTS strips I downloaded a few years ago. Incidentally, I also checked to see if the word 'gullible' was in the dictionary one time, not to mention I was once convinced to visit the pen purchasing website known as Pen Island.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Huh, I actually went back to the digital copies of the OOTS strips I downloaded a few years ago. Incidentally, I also checked to see if the word 'gullible' was in the dictionary one time, not to mention I was once convinced to visit the pen purchasing website known as Pen Island.

I'll admit I actually checked my books just to make sure. :smallbiggrin:

[Gift Jeraff]

The Giant also went back and added 949 strips that lead up to this one.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

The Giant also went back and added 949 strips that lead up to this one.

Huh, I never noticed those before.

[Cavenskull]

... I'm trying to figure out what happened there. Did the fire go out?
Do you really need someone to "Spell It Out" for you? :smalltongue:

[Rodin]

I never really twigged that V's cloak was a thing (other than just a background detail) until this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0665.html), where it serves a very noble purpose indeed - preventing Roy from turning invisible.

[Domino Quartz]

I never really twigged that V's cloak was a thing (other than just a background detail) until this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0665.html), where it serves a very noble purpose indeed - preventing Roy from turning invisible.

I only just realised what you meant by "turning invisible" as I clicked on that link. :smallbiggrin:

[Bulldog Psion]

Interesting use of Cone of Cold. :smallconfused: I guess the spell probably causes a lot of ice crystals, and those melted and put out the fire.

If cold alone can put out fire, I'm going to experiment by setting something alight and tossing it in my freezer. :smallbiggrin:

[Tragak]

If cold alone can put out fire, I'm going to experiment by setting something alight and tossing it in my freezer. :smallbiggrin: In case you're being serious - which I genuinely hope you are :smallbiggrin:- don't close the door. The freezer will explode when you open it again.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

If cold alone can put out fire, I'm going to experiment by setting something alight and tossing it in my freezer. :smallbiggrin:

I hope you have a spare freezer then. :smallbiggrin:

[Emperordaniel]

It was there. It's always been there. Unless the Giant has found a way to bend reality.

And Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia. :smallwink:

[Lanary]

Purely magnificent wordplay and art. V's arms though look a bit... stiff... won't they? Especially when (s)he is walking around.
Theorizing: V has weights inside his/her sleeves to strengthen his/her body for future challenges but doesn't move them around in vain, sparing energy.:smallconfused:

Nevertheless; wonderful page from a wonderful artist.

[Keltest]

Purely magnificent wordplay and art. V's arms though look a bit... stiff... won't they? Especially when (s)he is walking around.
Theorizing: V has weights inside his/her sleeves to strengthen his/her body for future challenges but doesn't move them around in vain, sparing energy.:smallconfused:

Nevertheless; wonderful page from a wonderful artist.

Maybe V's robe is stiff with some sort of waterproofing, since its raining.:smallconfused:

[Stella]

Any argument that involves statblocks is inherently weak, given WotC's ability to screw those up. Honestly, after reading Cooper's column for a few months, I stopped using them entirely.That's you making a choice. You could just as easily choose to say "Any argument that involves citing RAW is inherently weak, given WotC's ability to screw those up." And it would be exactly as accurate.

[Baphomet]

That's you making a choice. You could just as easily choose to say "Any argument that involves citing RAW is inherently weak, given WotC's ability to screw those up." And it would be exactly as accurate.

Sorry, I know i'm not involved in this little tiff here, but that's not really true. It's a matter of degrees of separation from your primary information source. If you're trying to determine rules as written, it makes more sense to use the rules as written instead of something that's supposed to be derived from the rules as written. Much like courts would trust a firsthand witness account of an event over a friend of the witness that the witness told the story to. Especially if that friend has many well-documented cases of misremembering stories told to them over the phone.

Not that any of that matters overmuch. Rich isn't really using RAW anyway. He's using Rules As Written by Rich, or RAWR.

[Glodart]

He's using Rules As Written by Rich, or RAWR.

Wow, this is one of the most hilarious things I have ever read.
Or maybe I'm just tired, yeah, probably that

[Tragak]

Wow, this is one of the most hilarious things I have ever read.
Or maybe I'm just tired, yeah, probably that Well, RAWR is better than "robber" (Rules As Written By Rich) :smallbiggrin:

[Codex]

Elan and V. Those two need their own comedy act now. Or maybe a spinoff.

[r2d2go]

Maybe V's robe is stiff with some sort of waterproofing, since its raining.:smallconfused:

What self respecting wizard would use mundane waterproofing when they could use magic? :smalltongue:

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Wow, this is one of the most hilarious things I have ever read.
Or maybe I'm just tired, yeah, probably that

I don't know, I thought it looked pretty funny.

[zimmerwald1915]

Elan and V. Those two need their own comedy act now. Or maybe a spinoff.
They had that. It was called Don't Split the Party. It was...mostly something other than funny.