Low-Level Archivist Advice

[wayfare]

Hey All:

A few weeks ago, I posted about an archivist player of mine, looking for advice on spell selection. The party has leveled up to 5, but the archivist is feeling useless in combat. Here are the details:

Magic items are somewhat restricted, in that wands and staffs are not easily available. Mostly its eternal wands and runestaves (there was a spellplague like event that has made items that hold charges unstable, especially if you are packing in more than 5 charges). On the other hand, mundane crafting has some items that provide low amounts of fast healing, and the party gets potions fairly regularly as part of their job as guardsmen. Anything with 5 charges or less is fairly safe, and will only misfire if you are in a "wild magic" zone.

There are magic marts, but you cant just pull out MiC to buy anything. Before each section of the game I ask for requests and hide that item or a similar item at a merchant or as a quest reward. Most shops have an inventory that is planned out.

The party is currently 5 and the game cap is level 10. The Archivist gets most of his spell selection approved because he is in a major metropolis and does favors for the church folk all the time. He is currently Archivist 3/Church Inquisitor 2 for non-negotiable RP reasons (family killed my a mind controlling shape-shifter).

Any suggestions to help him would be greatly appreciated!

[KorbeltheReader]

I'd say priority #1 for every archivist is trolling the magic marts for scrolls of spells you don't have yet. Good 2nd level spells include web, mass snake's swiftness (that's an insane damage spell when you think about it), blinding spittle, alter self, invisibility, and close wounds (in my opinion the only in-combat healing spell worth taking).

Those should have him feeling much better.

[John Longarrow]

With a caster level of 5, he should be looking for the divine spell "Anyspell". Lets him use a 3rd level slot to cast any 1st or 2nd level spell pretty much.

[JeminiZero]

The party has leveled up to 5, but the archivist is feeling useless in combat. Here are the details:
Well... what spells does he normally prepare, and how does he use them?

What is the rest of the part playing, and what spells are they using?

What other feats does he have? Academic Priest? Knowledge Devotion? Archivist of Nature? Draconic Archivist?

[wayfare]

Well... what spells does he normally prepare, and how does he use them?

What is the rest of the part playing, and what spells are they using?

What other feats does he have? Academic Priest? Knowledge Devotion? Archivist of Nature? Draconic Archivist?

He typically has a cure spell memorized as a saftey measure, plus stuff like light of lunia. He picked up flameblade, dispel magic, axiomatic storm, and call lightning with the last level up.

Feat went to draconic archivist. I dont know the other one, but i dont think it was anything to write home about.

Rest of party is a stone dragon/iron heart warblade and a custom ranger with better casting (level 3 spells at 10).

[KorbeltheReader]

I didn't realize church inquisitor was a full spellcasting class. In that case, he might consider summon monster III. The huge fiendish monstrous centipede is murderous, especially if you use this one (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Fiendish_Monstrous_Centipede,_Huge_%283.5e_Creatur e%29). It has snatch (basically Improved Grab+) because the fiendish template increases the centipede's intelligence enough to grant it feats. DR 5, a not-terrible poisonous attack, and a wicked grapple check makes him pretty great at level 5.

Full list of options for spells here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=185.msg611#msg611). Haste and black tentacles are also the bee's knees.

[dextercorvia]

With a caster level of 5, he should be looking for the divine spell "Anyspell". Lets him use a 3rd level slot to cast any 1st or 2nd level spell pretty much.

Not really. He doesn't have a domain slot.

However, he should (with sufficient effort) be able to find/create any spell he wants. Make it clear to him that he should be requesting these things as part of the loot so you have a chance to work it in. Divine versions of Arcane spells are easy to do via scroll. So, he might just need to find a Trapsmith and bribe him to spend the time to make a Scroll of Haste together (using the Archivists XP, and the Trapsmith's Spell).

To save time, you can make scrolls containing multiple spells. This helps get around the only one scroll per day, since it takes quite a few level 1-3 spells to add up to the 1000gp value you are allowed to make with 8hrs work. So, if he can convince the Trapsmith to help him, then maybe he pays for Greater Dispel Magic, and Wall of Stone, too.

[Ansem]

I didn't realize church inquisitor was a full spellcasting class. In that case, he might consider summon monster III. The huge fiendish monstrous centipede is murderous, especially if you use this one (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Fiendish_Monstrous_Centipede,_Huge_%283.5e_Creatur e%29). It has snatch (basically Improved Grab+) because the fiendish template increases the centipede's intelligence enough to grant it feats. DR 5, a not-terrible poisonous attack, and a wicked grapple check makes him pretty great at level 5.

Full list of options for spells here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=185.msg611#msg611). Haste and black tentacles are also the bee's knees.

Never use dandwiki.com for any form of reference, they cannot distinguish between homebrew and SRD and most of the SRD stuff is inaccurate or homebrewed anyway.

[wayfare]

Not really. He doesn't have a domain slot.

However, he should (with sufficient effort) be able to find/create any spell he wants. Make it clear to him that he should be requesting these things as part of the loot so you have a chance to work it in. Divine versions of Arcane spells are easy to do via scroll. So, he might just need to find a Trapsmith and bribe him to spend the time to make a Scroll of Haste together (using the Archivists XP, and the Trapsmith's Spell).

To save time, you can make scrolls containing multiple spells. This helps get around the only one scroll per day, since it takes quite a few level 1-3 spells to add up to the 1000gp value you are allowed to make with 8hrs work. So, if he can convince the Trapsmith to help him, then maybe he pays for Greater Dispel Magic, and Wall of Stone, too.

No real need for scribing shenanigans, as the next session happens after3 months down time. He can learn more or less anything he can pay for. Plus there is a downtimr minigame where he can get rewards for stuff done offscreen.

Ok, any general advice on what a combat round should look like for him?

[KorbeltheReader]

Never use dandwiki.com for any form of reference, they cannot distinguish between homebrew and SRD and most of the SRD stuff is inaccurate or homebrewed anyway.

Which is why I explained the parts that are different from the SRD for a non-fiendish huge monstrous centipede. Somebody added the fiendish template, noticed that it increased the centipede's intelligence to the point of adding feats, and chose some feats that increase its power.

dandwiki.com is perfectly useful for things like this as long as you verify the info. Don't believe me? Look: here's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monstrousCentipede.htm) the original.

[Vortenger]

Played an Archivist to 15 when the campaign exploded. Fun class. Gear helps, but other than stat boosters and an Orb of Mental Renewal you don't need much.

What does the player want to do IN combat? Is combat the only place the character doesn't feel engaged? Archivists make acceptable blasters if thats his gig, the druid list if fraught with BFC and direct damage goodies, Adept adds a few mainstays like Scorching Ray to the mix. Base cleric spell list has some blasting gems...some... Oh, and if he is a blaster Knowledge Devotion becomes mandatory.

Where the Archivist excels is playing God. Dark Knowledge means the player should be using turn 1 every combat to buff the party as a move action. (+2-3 to hit for all party members until he can add 2-3d6 damage per attack is not insignificant. Mini-Inspire Courage into Mini-DFI) Make sure he gets to know how many hits he saved or damage he added. It'll help. Then he has access to nearly all the good buff spells and most of the BFC. Icy Slick and Entangle as level 1 spells never go out of style. Have him try Mass Snakes Swiftness instead of Fireball, its lvl 2 for a druid and usually does more damage (vicariously). Show him the spell Divine Insight in the SpC and tell him he's the new party skillmonkey. Point being, with the wealth of buffs, control, and fix-it spells the Archivist brings to the table, he doesn't need to do damage. He's too busy making his party into demigods and his enemies into cupcakes. What kind of spells does he require?

A suggested turn order:
Turn 1- Move: Use Dark Knowledge (Attack, forget the name) Standard: Spell-Control (Situational: archers-> Wind Wall. BBEG-> Blinding Spittle. Mass Mooks -> Arctic Haze. etc.
Turn 2- Move: Get to better position/away. Standard: Mass Snake's Swiftness
Turn 3- Move: Whatever. Standard: Mop-up- A blast, debuff or lesser area spell to help with leftover threats. Or a tanglefoot bag.
Turn 4- Move: Sit down. Standard: Summon Tea Set. The fight should be pretty much over and you use limited resources. You did your job.
(Note: This offer not valid in few cases. Side effects may vary, and may require further effort on the part of the patient. Void where prohibited.)

[Callin]

Well if he is just looking for things to do during a Combat Round and not cast then at 5th he should of grabbed a Reserve Feat for either Fiery Burst or Storm Bolt.

Last Archivist(/Inquisitor oddly enough haha) I played was a debuff Machine. Ray of Enfeeblement (lvl 1), Ray of Stupidity (lvl 2), Dehydrate (lvl 3), Ghoul Gesture (lvl 3), Enervation (lvl 4), Wrack (lvl 4/5), Wither Limb (lvl 4), Curse of Ill Fortune (lvl 5)

He was a ton of fun to play. DM hated him though haha.

[dextercorvia]

The problem is he built a blaster with weak blasting spells.

He will get much more out of dropping Haste to buff his allies, Wall of stone to divide the enemies, and Glitterdust to blind them.

Glitterdust is available from the Divine Bard list.

[wayfare]

Well if he is just looking for things to do during a Combat Round and not cast then at 5th he should of grabbed a Reserve Feat for either Fiery Burst or Storm Bolt.

Last Archivist(/Inquisitor oddly enough haha) I played was a debuff Machine. Ray of Enfeeblement (lvl 1), Ray of Stupidity (lvl 2), Dehydrate (lvl 3), Ghoul Gesture (lvl 3), Enervation (lvl 4), Wrack (lvl 4/5), Wither Limb (lvl 4), Curse of Ill Fortune (lvl 5)

He was a ton of fun to play. DM hated him though haha.

Yeah, I suggested Storm Bolt, as he has call lightning and Storm Bolt basically IS call lightning at short range, but he nixed the idea.

As a replacement for the combat wands that he doesnt have access to now thanks to the spellplague, I've brewed up "battle wands" that use your caster level for attack and do 1d6/19-20/x2 damage at a 50 foot range, which increase in damage if you sacrifice spell levels (caping out a 2d6)

[wayfare]

If he wants to go blaster, what would be the spell selection to go with?

[Callin]

Orb Spells are a good choice.

[wayfare]

Orb Spells are a good choice.

Can you get those divined?

[Callin]

I prefer to get a Divine Spellcaster to scribe the scrolls then add them to my Prayer Book. Now its not a typical Divine Spell so rules wise its going to cost 1.5 times more. Hunting down the person to do it or whathave you. You are the DM right? So its really up to you. He can add to his Prayer Book with out much probelms any Cleric, Druid, Ranger, Paladin, and Divine Bard spell. Divine Spellcasters are a Generic class from UA. So thats why I say the scrolls should cost more (though personally I am against it). Alternate Source is another option I hear. So whatever works at your table.

[dextercorvia]

Can you get those divined?

Everything can be divine with cooperative scribing.

Hammer of Righteousness (BoED) is one of my favorites. He will want Lesser Restoration (from the paladin list at level 1) to go with it though.

The Light of X spells aren't bad at low levels, but they get better when you can share them with a familiar or something.

Frost Breath deals damage, and forces a save vs Daze. That might be a good compromise spell.

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, cloud of knives (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-ii--80/cloud-of-knives--2920/) sounds like something he needs. It's a GREAT blasting spell, doing 5d4+5 damage as a second level spell. Produce flame is also a great spell, low level and able to kick out 1d6+1 damage a round. Both work really well with a nice fell metamagic effect (fell drain or weaken are my favored options). Ring of blades completes the effect.

[TechnoWarforged]

Do you use Your Dark Knowledge during battle? It's pretty handy for that insight bonue to attack boost.

My Archivist is lvl 8. Around level 5 he's using 'Impeding stones" for battle control. Your teamate will love you for Mass Snake Swiftness, as well as Bull Strenght. Enlarge Person is also pretty good for being a first level.

Blinding Splittle is so OP my DM almost banned. it. Closed Wounds saved my Teammate a few times from rerolling a new character.

Basically even at level 5, the most optimal thing you can do is buff, and then shoot your crossbow while in cover. Healbot mod with lesser vigor after the battle is over.

[Vortenger]

It seems Techno, Dexter, I are all saying the same thing. May want to reflect on that...

(Side tangent: Archivist was the first 3.5 class I played, and I played w/ an archer cleric and a TWF Daring Outlaw. Both knew what they were doing. After 4 or 5 levels of play, I began to be frustrated at how little I felt I was contributing in combat. Then I researched Treantmonk's guides, among others. I learned that I did much, much more to impact the game at large than the two blenders in the group by casting spells that don't care about damage.. I learned that an enemy I incapacitated dealt much less damage to the party than the ones I had merely dealt some HP damage to. Not only that, it took months for the group to realize that I was adding more than half of their vaunted damage to their rolls. I made them the blender they thought they were. I also had way more fun, not having to worry about whether I was competitive, because I did what no one else could. It was a much more synergistic method of playing. It sounds as though your friend may be in a similar position. Perhaps you might encourage him to try another style of play? All he has to do to go from blaster to caster is change what spells he's slinging on a given day. /rant)

Anywhoo, aside from blasting being considered a sub-par method for T1 caster such as the Archivist, divine blasters suffer from one major issue. Arcane-Does-It-Better (tm), particularly with level 3 and below spells. A few questions leap to mind: Are there Divine Bards? Is the Divine Magician ACF in play? Are there Geomancers, Shugenja, Shaman (OA),Southern Magicians, etc. walking around in your game world? The list of tools available grows with each yes received. Blasting from core classes (spells mainly from SpC and core):

lvl 1: Sandblast, Produce Flame (level 1 divine spells aren't very blasty)
lvl 2: Scorching Ray, Splinter Bolt, Creeping Cold, Flaming Orb, Saltray, Cloud of Knives, Spiritual Weapon, Dessicate, Mass Snake's Swiftness (better than Fireball)
lvl 3: Call Lightning (Sucks, see Spiritjaws), Icelance, Spiritjaws, Lightning Bolt, Haboob/Arctic Haze, Extended Creeping Cold
Always good damage (past level 5): Summon Monster / Summon Nature's Ally (the first for effects/spells, the second for meat/muscle)

That should give you a few more ideas, I hope.

[wayfare]

Thanks for all the great advice, folks! Hopefully, my player will be able to capitalize on some of it.

Unrelated, though don't want to start another thread just for this:

My Warblade player would like a signature ranged weapon, something a bit unconventional. I brewed up this, and am looking for a bit of feedback:

Wervar's Portable Boulder
1d6 bludgeoning/20/x2
30 foot range increment

This pitted stone, carved into the shape of a clenched dwarven fist, is surprisingly heavy. When thrown in combat, you can apply any Stone Dragon Strike to Wervar's Portable Boulder.
The Portable Boulder can be recalled to its owners hand at any time as a move action.

[KorbeltheReader]

Thanks for all the great advice, folks! Hopefully, my player will be able to capitalize on some of it.

Unrelated, though don't want to start another thread just for this:

My Warblade player would like a signature ranged weapon, something a bit unconventional. I brewed up this, and am looking for a bit of feedback:

Wervar's Portable Boulder
1d6 bludgeoning/20/x2
30 foot range increment

This pitted stone, carved into the shape of a clenched dwarven fist, is surprisingly heavy. When thrown in combat, you can apply any Stone Dragon Strike to Wervar's Portable Boulder.
The Portable Boulder can be recalled to its owners hand at any time as a move action.

Personally, I'd be a little wary about letting warblades execute their maneuvers at range. The trade-off to having those awesome maneuvers was that you have to get up close.

[Callin]

Make it X/day and its good. Then he might only use it once an encounter or so.

Say more along these lines

Boulder
1d6+str 20x2
Range 15 (most thrown are 10)
3/day You can throw this boulder and execute a Stone Dragon Maneuver. The boulder returns to throwers hand at the end of their turn. If the thrower has no free hands the boulder drops to the ground at the throwers feet.

[wayfare]

Personally, I'd be a little wary about letting warblades execute their maneuvers at range. The trade-off to having those awesome maneuvers was that you have to get up close.

Hmmm. Would something like "When attacking, you may lose a maneuver as if you had expended it to increase the damage inflicted by the portable boulder by 1 size category per level of the maneuver lost, to a maximum of colossal size (6d6 damage).