Detect Evil blasts the target with ionizing radiaton in order for it to work.

[Lordfiscus]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0228.html

Huh. So, not only did she murder Shojo, but she's also managed to give innocent people potentially fatal doses of radiation poisoning. Nice one, Miko!

Also, even if some of the things she's used Detect Evil on were actually evil, she might have targeted some people on the Neutral side, or possibly even the Good side.

Then again, considering the 12 gods didn't smite her until she killed Shojo, every person hit with Detect Evil has either survived, or they really were evil.

[Grey Watcher]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0228.html

Huh. So, not only did she murder Shojo, but she's also managed to give innocent people potentially fatal doses of radiation poisoning. Nice one, Miko!

Also, even if some of the things she's used Detect Evil on were actually evil, she might have targeted some people on the Neutral side, or possibly even the Good side.

Then again, considering the 12 gods didn't smite her until she killed Shojo, every person hit with Detect Evil has either survived, or they really were evil.

Pretty sure that Jones is just being obstructive. Her Detect Evil power is, quite literally, magical. It doesn't work like an X-Ray at all.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Or, more likely, Jones's claim that Detect Evil was harmful radiation was wrong and Detect Evil, despite being blocked by sheets of lead, is not a form of energy.

Miko shouldn't use Detect Evil like how she does, but not for this reason.

[jere7my]

Huh. So, not only did she murder Shojo, but she's also managed to give innocent people potentially fatal doses of radiation poisoning. Nice one, Miko!

No, it is "blocked by sheets of lead, in a manner consistent with" harmful radiation. Thus there is "a potential and unexplored health risk." That's about the same level of reasoning as "Battleship plate stops both bullets and marshmallows. Therefore, there is a risk that marshmallows are as dangerous as bullets."

[SaintRidley]

No, it is "blocked by sheets of lead, in a manner consistent with" harmful radiation. Thus there is "a potential and unexplored health risk." That's about the same level of reasoning as "Battleship plate stops both bullets and marshmallows. Therefore, there is a risk that marshmallows are as dangerous as bullets."

Well, they can be. Just in very different situations.

[Lordfiscus]

Or, more likely, Jones's claim that Detect Evil was harmful radiation was wrong and Detect Evil, despite being blocked by sheets of lead, is not a form of energy.

Miko shouldn't use Detect Evil like how she does, but not for this reason.


Pretty sure that Jones is just being obstructive. Her Detect Evil power is, quite literally, magical. It doesn't work like an X-Ray at all.

That just raises further questions. "Why did the sheet work at all?", for starters, considering lead acts as an insulator against radiation IRL. Unless Detect Evil uses something that is similar to ionizing radiation, she's basically been blasting everyone she thinks is malicious with ionizing radiation, in dosages that could possibly be fatal. Which could be a rather large amount of neutral or good characters.

[jere7my]

That just raises further questions. "Why did the sheet work at all?", for starters, considering lead acts as an insulator against radiation IRL. Unless Detect Evil uses something that is similar to ionizing radiation, she's basically been blasting everyone she thinks is malicious with ionizing radiation, in dosages that could possibly be fatal. Which could be a rather large amount of neutral or good characters.

You know what else lead sheets block? Visible light. Those darn adventurers, carrying torches around and blasting everyone with radiation in dosages that could possibly be fatal!

[Lordfiscus]

You know what else lead sheets block? Visible light. Those darn adventurers, carrying torches around and blasting everyone with radiation in dosages that could possibly be fatal!
Oh. You have a point there. Also BWAHAHAHA :smallamused:

So, she hasn't been poisoning everyone she comes across, it's just that Detect Evil is visible light, NOT ionizing radiation.
Or it's magical.

Is there a way to get the Giant on this post? Considering he wrote the comic, he'd probably know whether or not Jones is simply (EFF)ing with Miko, and how the mechanics of Detect Alignment work.

[DaggerPen]

I find it DRAMATICALLY unlikely that Detect Evil was ever intended to be cancer-inducing.

Furthermore, even if it did somehow contain ionizing radiation, it would have to be very intense to be able to trigger cancer or other health effects in one brief dosage. I mean, geez, I've had stomach tests that put me in front of an X-Ray machine for an hour and made me drink radioactive contrast agents, and I doubt the exposure from any one of the snapshots they took, let alone the full test, would have compared with the maximum amount of radiation emitted by Detect Evil in this scenario.

It's magic, guys. That's just how it works.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Since it's a spell, I think we can go with the standard answer of "it's magic: I don't have to explain it" to say why lead sheets (among other things) block Detect Evil and call it a day. Or night, depending on the time.

[Nilehus]

Pretty sure if Detect Evil gave the target cancer, it'd fall under the Evil category.

Also, what's up with all the Miko threads this week?

[Vinyadan]

Don't ask me why, but I find psionic powers much more likely to be carcinogenic.

But I think V may be the major cause for tumors. Combusting stuff randomly and throwing lightning left and right? That sounds like creating noxious vapors. That elf is like a filterless incinerator in your party.

[WindStruck]

It's not a matter of what lead blocks, it's a matter of what Detect Evil passes through. If I recall, it takes a foot of stone, six solid feet of wood or dirt, OR a sheet of lead. Kind of the same exact behavior as if you had a gamma ray detector and were trying to detect objects emitting them.

I think detect evil works by... you know, detecting evil being emitted from creatures, rather than something like showering them with magic/ions and then somehow relaying information back to the caster.

[smuchmuch]

That just raises further questions. "Why did the sheet work at all?", for starters, considering lead acts as an insulator against radiation IRL. Unless Detect Evil uses something that is similar to ionizing radiation, she's basically been blasting everyone she thinks is malicious with ionizing radiation, in dosages that could possibly be fatal. Which could be a rather large amount of neutral or good characters.

It worked the same way it blocks all kind of scrying (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Scrying_Subschool). (I guess in OOts verse, it extend to divinition at large; ? Which detect evil happen to be part off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm))

It works because: game balance happens; so there's be a non magical way to block scrying. The comic pretty much say it our loud (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0895.html)
Also I suspect most people who write for D&D are genraly art majors and/or have read too many superman comics. :smalltongue:


Battleship plate stops both bullets and marshmallows. Therefore, there is a risk that marshmallows are as dangerous as bullets."

Well... (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20100721)

Alway remember: delicious spongy goodness doesn't kill people; people do !

[Vinyadan]

It's not a matter of what lead blocks, it's a matter of what Detect Evil passes through. If I recall, it takes a foot of stone, six solid feet of wood or dirt, OR a sheet of lead. Kind of the same exact behavior as if you had a gamma ray detector and were trying to detect objects emitting them.

I think detect evil works by... you know, detecting evil being emitted from creatures, rather than something like showering them with magic/ions and then somehow relaying information back to the caster.

Now I understand. Evil is carcinogenic. Detect Evil just works as a detector for evil rays, which are blocked by lead.

Evil literally kills you from within - and those around you.

[Keltest]

Oh. You have a point there. Also BWAHAHAHA :smallamused:

So, she hasn't been poisoning everyone she comes across, it's just that Detect Evil is visible light, NOT ionizing radiation.
Or it's magical.

Is there a way to get the Giant on this post? Considering he wrote the comic, he'd probably know whether or not Jones is simply (EFF)ing with Miko, and how the mechanics of Detect Alignment work.

Not unless you consider a sword through the chest "Steel poisoning.'

[pendell]

Is there a way to get the Giant on this post? Considering he wrote the comic, he'd probably know whether or not Jones is simply (EFF)ing with Miko, and how the mechanics of Detect Alignment work.

The Giant, of course, may participate in this conversation if he wishes, but I don't think he will. If he were to come in, I think he would tell us we were overthinking the issue -- it's magic, it doesn't have to follow the rules of real-world physics, and OOTS doesn't run on real-world physics. It runs on a combination of dramatic convenience, D&D 3.5 , and real-world rules, in that order of priority.

So while he will throw in a joke about Cesium elementals or other science jokes, I don't think it's in his interest to elaborate on exactly how this all works -- and it's not as if he'd know himself, since he's only following the existing 3.5 rules, which were intended more to make an interesting game than they were for scientific plausibility. He'd have to make up the reason, and since he's an art school grad the real scientists here would probably find it even less plausible. So it gives him nothing, pleases no one, but it means it's one more thing he has to keep track of about the world as he's writing it.

So I don't think he minds us arguing about this sort of thing -- and I certainly enjoy it ! -- but I'd be very surprised if he actually participated in the conversation. It may satisfy our curiosity but it makes a lot more work for him. Far better to let us fill in the blanks ourselves with the answer we find most satisfying.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[FujinAkari]

Or, more likely, Jones's claim that Detect Evil was harmful radiation was wrong and Detect Evil, despite being blocked by sheets of lead, is not a form of energy.

Miko shouldn't use Detect Evil like how she does, but not for this reason.

Bit of a side-track, but we actually don't have any reason to suspect that Miko's use of detect evil is improper.

A lot of people took this strip as evidence that Miko is just using Detect Evil willy-nilly and killing anyone who pops, but that isn't what we see her doing anywhere else in the strip. She doesn't detect evil Samantha and Pop, or the Dirt Farmers, or anyone at the inn. The complaints we hear about her from the other Paladins are that she is difficult to be around -not- that she randomly slaughters people every time she goes out for milk.

Frankly, the only times we DO see her Detect Evil is when she already suspects and has evidence that someone is evil, which is absolutely the right way to use the ability, in my opinion.

[hamishspence]

Bit of a side-track, but we actually don't have any reason to suspect that Miko's use of detect evil is improper.

A lot of people took this strip as evidence that Miko is just using Detect Evil willy-nilly and killing anyone who pops, but that isn't what we see her doing anywhere else in the strip. She doesn't detect evil Samantha and Pop, or the Dirt Farmers, or anyone at the inn. The complaints we hear about her from the other Paladins are that she is difficult to be around -not- that she randomly slaughters people every time she goes out for milk.

Frankly, the only times we DO see her Detect Evil is when she already suspects and has evidence that someone is evil, which is absolutely the right way to use the ability, in my opinion.

A case could be made that even when she "has evidence that someone is evil" that doesn't mean she "has evidence that someone Needs Killing".

War & XPs also mentions that Miko has been "pushing the boundaries of her alignment and what it means to be a Paladin" for a long time.

[Keltest]

A case could be made that even when she "has evidence that someone is evil" that doesn't mean she "has evidence that someone Needs Killing".

War & XPs also mentions that Miko has been "pushing the boundaries of her alignment and what it means to be a Paladin" for a long time.

Regardless of her motivations for killing people, the point is that she doesn't appear to just scan everyone she encounters and attacks them out of the blue if theyre evil, but instead scans people who she has reason to be suspicious about. What she does after confirming/denying whether the target is evil isn't relevant to the proper use of Detect Evil.

[snikrept]

It's not a matter of what lead blocks, it's a matter of what Detect Evil passes through. If I recall, it takes a foot of stone, six solid feet of wood or dirt, OR a sheet of lead. Kind of the same exact behavior as if you had a gamma ray detector and were trying to detect objects emitting them.

I think detect evil works by... you know, detecting evil being emitted from creatures, rather than something like showering them with magic/ions and then somehow relaying information back to the caster.

Ahh, so Always Evil creatures are all walking high-dose gamma emitters. No wonder why slaying them out of hand is a matter of public good. It all makes sense now :smallcool:

[Bulldog Psion]

Ahh, so Always Evil creatures are all walking high-dose gamma emitters. No wonder why slaying them out of hand is a matter of public good. It all makes sense now :smallcool:

There is also Detect Good, Detect Law, and Detect Chaos, IIRC. Which means everyone is a walking high-dose gamma emitter regardless of alignment.

[jaybird]

Or-

Or-

Or-

Or we could look at the SRD description of Detect Evil. Specifically,


The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Bit of a side-track, but we actually don't have any reason to suspect that Miko's use of detect evil is improper.

A lot of people took this strip as evidence that Miko is just using Detect Evil willy-nilly and killing anyone who pops, but that isn't what we see her doing anywhere else in the strip. She doesn't detect evil Samantha and Pop, or the Dirt Farmers, or anyone at the inn. The complaints we hear about her from the other Paladins are that she is difficult to be around -not- that she randomly slaughters people every time she goes out for milk.

Frankly, the only times we DO see her Detect Evil is when she already suspects and has evidence that someone is evil, which is absolutely the right way to use the ability, in my opinion.
Personally, I don't think that there is a right way to use Detect Evil. I don't think that you should kill someone because they detect as Evil, regardless of your other reasonings. If you suspect that someone is doing something wrong that requires you to kill them, don't try to justify by saying that they were Evil. If you think they are guilty of being Evil, then just go off that evidence. Basically, I don't like Detect Evil as a spell. That's just my personal opinion though, and I can understand why you'd disagree.

[DaggerPen]

Personally, I don't think that there is a right way to use Detect Evil. I don't think that you should kill someone because they detect as Evil, regardless of your other reasonings. If you suspect that someone is doing something wrong that requires you to kill them, don't try to justify by saying that they were Evil. If you think they are guilty of being Evil, then just go off that evidence. Basically, I don't like Detect Evil as a spell. That's just my personal opinion though, and I can understand why you'd disagree.

I think Detect Evil has its uses, but not in justifying combat situations. Attack someone because they're doing something that immediately justifies it, not because they detect as Evil. But if you're, say, trying to figure out whether or not to trust this kinda shady-looking guy who's promising you a shortcut through the woods, or this vizier who keeps telling you that he's relaying the orders of the King who's never spoken to you, a Detect Evil, while not 100% definitive, isn't the worst idea in the world.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I think Detect Evil has its uses, but not in justifying combat situations. Attack someone because they're doing something that immediately justifies it, not because they detect as Evil. But if you're, say, trying to figure out whether or not to trust this kinda shady-looking guy who's promising you a shortcut through the woods, or this vizier who keeps telling you that he's relaying the orders of the King who's never spoken to you, a Detect Evil, while not 100% definitive, isn't the worst idea in the world.

Definitely agreed about using it in combat. As for your other example, I suppose I could see that as an acceptable use, although I really don't like determining the trustworthiness of people based on alignment alone.

[DaggerPen]

Definitely agreed about using it in combat. As for your other example, I suppose I could see that as an acceptable use, although I really don't like determining the trustworthiness of people based on alignment alone.

I wouldn't say alignment alone, but if you're unsure and the ol' Detect Evil lights up like a firecracker, it's best to be prepared for a betrayal, methinks.

[Baphomet]

I have lots of time while compiling and rendering here, so I'm gonna nerd out for no reason.

Detect Evil is a magical spell. If a universe has magic in it, magic is basically one of the fundamental physical forces in that universe, like electromagnetism, radiation, or gravity are in ours. It can be invoked by anything; living (people and monsters), unliving (the undead), and inanimate (magical traps, naturally-occurring magical phenomena, magic items) alike. It seems like a reasonable conclusion to say that magic exists in all matter in a universe that has magic, just as electromagnetism and gravity exists in all matter in ours, though it might not always exist in a form that has an immediately apparent physical effect.

Magic as a fundamental force is interesting because it doesn't act on the physicality of things, but rather what they represent. It treats things like symbols for what they do at the macro scale, even though presumably it's all just atoms if you look closely enough. To quote Dr. Manhattan, "A live body and a dead body contain the same number of particles. Structurally, there's no discernible difference. Life and death are unquantifiable abstracts. Why should I be concerned?" Of course, the difference between life and death is something that magic is very concerned about.

For example, the physics at a fundamental level behind an atomic bomb exploding are relatively simple. If you could just control physics in general, you could make an atomic explosion pretty easily; you could start the atomic chain reaction by manipulating as little as two atoms. However, for magic, that would be an immensely powerful and difficult spell, 9th-level at least, but more likely deep into epic. I propose that's because at the macro scale, what an atomic explosion represents is fire and destruction and death (all things magic cares about) in quantities far too great to contain in the average spell.

On the flip side, consider the first-level spell Comprehend Languages. It makes you able to read and understand all spoken or written languages that you encounter, but not able to speak or write them. From a magical perspective, these effects are very minor: you're taking in a little information, putting it in another form, and giving it back. If we look at what that spell does as a purely physical phenomena, that is immensely complicated; many orders of magnitude more complicated than an atom bomb. For sounds, it has to detect specific patterns of vibrations in an already chaotically-vibrating mass of air and then map those vibrations to phonemes and eventually words of every language that has ever existed for every pitch or voice type that it could conceivably be spoken in. For letters, it has to detect changes in the frequencies of visible light reflections off of solid matter, find the boundaries between those changes, and check those shapes against the shapes of every letter of every language ever while accounting for every possible variation on handwriting and physical media that the writing is on. To even know what spoken and written languages are, it has to have detected the specific patterns of electrochemical reactions in whatever passes for a brain in every type of living creature that ever existed, match them to immensely complicated maps of what might count as the language center of the brain for that specific living organism, and then store that data somewhere for future reference. Then, to feed it back to the caster, it has to do that in reverse. This is far beyond what we're technologically capable of now or will be for the forseeable future.

My point is, I think magic is doing more than just manipulating physics. It's generalizing things into their purposes in ways that transcend their physical makeup and then manipulating those generalizations.

So anyway, to get back to lead under my particular idea of magical theory here, what does lead represent? Well, it's heavy, it's poisonous, and it blocks radiation. Radiation is a type of energy that can be used (in X-Rays) to see the inner workings of stuff; that's one of the things that it represents. So, Divination magic, also representing a type of energy that can be used to see the inner workings of stuff, hits lead, and sees that it represents "heavy, poisonous, blocks types of energy that can be used to see the inner workings of stuff" and goes "hey, I'm a type of energy that can be used to see the inner workings of stuff, I've been blocked". You'll note that it doesn't just stop Detect [alignment] spells, but many other Divinations that fall under the "get information about the inner workings of stuff" category, like we saw with the gate at the pyramid.

In short, I'm suggesting that lead blocks Detect Evil not because Detect Evil is more like something physical (radiation), but because lead is more like something magical (blocks ability to learn things).

[Jaxzan Proditor]

In short, I'm suggesting that lead blocks Detect Evil not because Detect Evil is more like something physical (radiation), but because lead is more like something magical (blocks ability to learn things).

I like this because I can't help but think that lead=magical now. :smallbiggrin:

[Baphomet]

I like this because I can't help but think that lead=magical now. :smallbiggrin:
That's exactly what I'm suggesting. I'm also suggesting that everything else is also magical. It's just that lead happens to be magical in a way that has practical applications when dealing with certain types of Divination magic.

[SavageWombat]

I like this because I can't help but think that lead=magical now. :smallbiggrin:

As we learned in the very first issue of the Avengers: "Even Loki can't escape from a lead-lined tank!"

[Jaxzan Proditor]

That's exactly what I'm suggesting. I'm also suggesting that everything else is also magical. It's just that lead happens to be magical in a way that has practical applications when dealing with certain types of Divination magic.

That's why I like your theory so much!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

As we learned in the very first issue of the Avengers: "Even Loki can't escape from a lead-lined tank!"

Having not read the first issue of the Avengers, I can honestly say I had no idea how best to trap Loki. Now I know. *Plots to kidnap Loki*

[FujinAkari]

Personally, I don't think that there is a right way to use Detect Evil. I don't think that you should kill someone because they detect as Evil, regardless of your other reasonings.

Hrmmm... so you as well are focusing on the act of killing rather than the act of detecting, why is that? What has been specifically said was that Miko's use of Detect Evil was appropriate (i.e: She used it only after she had collected evidence leading her to suspect the presense of evil, rather than just shooting it off every so often since she could.)

No one is discussing Miko killing anyone, so I'm not sure why that is getting so much attention. I suspect it may be to try and bait me into trying to justify Miko's killings, which is bait I will be leaving where it lies, thank you :)

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Hrmmm... so you as well are focusing on the act of killing rather than the act of detecting, why is that? What has been specifically said was that Miko's use of Detect Evil was appropriate (i.e: She used it only after she had collected evidence leading her to suspect the presense of evil, rather than just shooting it off every so often since she could.)

No one is discussing Miko killing anyone, so I'm not sure why that is getting so much attention. I suspect it may be to try and bait me into trying to justify Miko's killings, which is bait I will be leaving where it lies, thank you :)

I mention killing because Miko says that she killed people because they were Evil. I think that being Evil is not reason enough to kill someone, and that if Miko believed that these people should be killed, it should be for reasons besides them being Evil, in other words, she shouldn't need to use Detect Evil.

I am not baiting you into anything, nor am I sure why you believe this to be the case. I was merely trying to explain why I didn't like how Miko used Detect Evil, since to me it seemed like it played a large role in her decisions, something I am against. I do not care whether or not her killings were justified; I do care that she may have killed people simply for being Evil.

[Keltest]

I mention killing because Miko says that she killed people because they were Evil. I think that being Evil is not reason enough to kill someone, and that if Miko believed that these people should be killed, it should be for reasons besides them being Evil, in other words, she shouldn't need to use Detect Evil.

I am not baiting you into anything, nor am I sure why you believe this to be the case. I was merely trying to explain why I didn't like how Miko used Detect Evil, since to me it seemed like it played a large role in her decisions, something I am against. I do not care whether or not her killings were justified; I do care that she may have killed people simply for being Evil.

you lost me at the part where Miko doesn't need to use detect evil. No, she shouldn't necessarily kill people just for being evil (though based on how weve seen her use it in comic id hesitate to say that the victims being evil are the only reason they were killed) but that doesnt mean she shouldn't use the detect evil ability at all.

[DaggerPen]

<snip>

... do you, by any chance, read a certain serial fiction story about a half-demon girl at a place called Magisterius University?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

you lost me at the part where Miko doesn't need to use detect evil. No, she shouldn't necessarily kill people just for being evil (though based on how weve seen her use it in comic id hesitate to say that the victims being evil are the only reason they were killed) but that doesnt mean she shouldn't use the detect evil ability at all.

If Miko has sufficient evidence for someone being guilty of a crime, Detect Evil shouldn't be a necessary step in proving they were guilty of that crime. I'll admit, like DaggerPen pointed out, there are some instances where it can be used, but Miko doesn't seem to utilize it in that way. The reason why I say she killed people because they are Evil comes from her own mouth.

:miko:: Yes! Because they were evil, so I killed them.

Edit: And, because I tire of talking about Miko. This will be my final word on the matter.

[Keltest]

If Miko has sufficient evidence for someone being guilty of a crime, Detect Evil shouldn't be a necessary step in proving they were guilty of that crime. I'll admit, like DaggerPen pointed out, there are some instances where it can be used, but Miko doesn't seem to utilize it in that way. The reason why I say she killed people because they are Evil comes from her own mouth.

:miko:: Yes! Because they were evil, so I killed them.

We don't know that the alignment was used to determine guilt, only punishment. For all we know, her though process may have been "Evil, not able to be redeemed, kill." or "Not evil, possibility of redemption, arrest." We don't know what happened to the people who weren't evil, nor the circumstances of the use of Detect Evil. I agree killing people because of their alignment is wrong (or not Good rather, since an evil person wouldn't judge right and wrong the same way) but we don't know that detect evil was the end-all-be-all judge, or to what degree she used it.

In fact, if a large % of the people she detected evil on were killed, that in itself suggests that she had a preliminary non-Detect-Evil process by itself.

[Rodin]

Definitely agreed about using it in combat. As for your other example, I suppose I could see that as an acceptable use, although I really don't like determining the trustworthiness of people based on alignment alone.

Another use for it is one that Miko actually uses it for - she uses it to spot Belkar when he's hiding from her.

True, that gets her whanged with a lead sheet, but it was a good plan! :smallbiggrin:

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Another use for it is one that Miko actually uses it for - she uses it to spot Belkar when he's hiding from her.

Okay, this is actually a good use for it that I forgot. Kudos there.

[Vedhin]

Jones is using an Arguement from Spurious Similarity (http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#similarity). They're always good for a laugh.

[Codex]

Pretty sure if Detect Evil gave the target cancer, it'd fall under the Evil category.

Also, what's up with all the Miko threads this week?

We have to talk about Miko. It's like, playground charter.

[Sartharina]

The closest thing to "Harmful Radiation" is actually Alignment, not the Detection spells. The correlation is backward. If anything, the harmful people are the Evil ones flooding the world with the deadly radiation of their Evil alignments, which the Detect spells are designed to pick up on.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

The closest thing to "Harmful Radiation" is actually Alignment, not the Detection spells. The correlation is backward. If anything, the harmful people are the Evil ones flooding the world with the deadly radiation of their Evil alignments, which the Detect spells are designed to pick up on.

What about spells like Detect Good?

[Keltest]

What about spells like Detect Good?

well obviously they only react when there is no evil radiation at all.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

well obviously they only react when there is no evil radiation at all.

Well, then what happens if you hit a Neutral target? :smalltongue:

[Sartharina]

The radiation emitted by Good people is actually beneficial and improves people's health. It's why being good feels good. Neutral people don't emit any radiation at all, benevolent or malevolent.

[Keltest]

Well, then what happens if you hit a Neutral target? :smalltongue:

Neutral people emit evil radiation but not enough to trigger detect evil, obviously.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

The radiation emitted by Good people is actually beneficial and improves people's health. It's why being good feels good. Neutral people don't emit any radiation at all, benevolent or malevolent.
That's not really radiation, then.

Neutral people emit evil radiation but not enough to trigger detect evil, obviously.
Of course, how silly of me to not realize that.

Now for the hard one: what's up with Detect Chaos and Detect Law?

[jere7my]

That's not really radiation, then.

Did you know that there's radiation in our very universe that promotes the healthy production of vitamin D?

[Keltest]

That's not really radiation, then.

Of course, how silly of me to not realize that.

Now for the hard one: what's up with Detect Chaos and Detect Law?

chaotic people secrete an otherwise undetectable gas. The more chaotic a person, the more chaos gas.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Did you know that there's radiation in our very universe that promotes the healthy production of vitamin D?

Did you know that that same radiation can kill you?

[CRtwenty]

For those talking about how Detect Evil shouldn't be used in combat situations I think you're all forgetting that many Paladin abilities are only effective on Evil creatures. The difference between a Chaotic Evil bandit and a Chaotic Neutral one is that the first can be hit with Smite Evil, which is a nice thing to know when he steps out of the bushes and asks for your wallet.

[Kornaki]

For those talking about how Detect Evil shouldn't be used in combat situations I think you're all forgetting that many Paladin abilities are only effective on Evil creatures. The difference between a Chaotic Evil bandit and a Chaotic Neutral one is that the first can be hit with Smite Evil, which is a nice thing to know when he steps out of the bushes and asks for your wallet.

Good point. Miko didn't spare the lives of neutral characters because they were redeemable, it's because her pathetic paladin abilities were rendered useless and she wasn't capable of killing them.

[jere7my]

Did you know that that same radiation can kill you?

Sure, in excessive doses, just as excessive doses of just about anything beneficial (water, medicine, food) can kill you. Doesn't change the fact that sunlight is a form of radiation that's "actually beneficial and improves people's health"; insufficient sunlight, in fact, can cause serious health problems.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Sure, in excessive doses, just as excessive doses of just about anything beneficial (water, medicine, food) can kill you. Doesn't change the fact that sunlight is a form of radiation that's "actually beneficial and improves people's health"; insufficient sunlight, in fact, can cause serious health problems.
Certain amounts of sunlight is beneficial, too little or too much is not. Since the original proposition was that a certain type of radiation was beneficial, not a certain amount, that proposition was wrong. Even if we change that idea to that certain alignments emit certain amounts of radiation, that still doesn't make it "benevolent or malevolent".

I also still don't see why that makes being good feel good.

[jere7my]

Certain amounts of sunlight is beneficial, too little or too much is not. Since the original proposition was that a certain type of radiation was beneficial, not a certain amount, that proposition was wrong.

In that case, nothing in the wide world is beneficial, since there's nothing that can't be made harmful through increase or decrease. We might as well eliminate the word from the language.


I also still don't see why that makes being good feel good.

It may be that you are taking this theory a little too seriously.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

In that case, nothing in the wide world is beneficial, since there's nothing that can't be made harmful through increase or decrease. We might as well eliminate the word from the language.
Many things are beneficial, but only at certain levels. Nothing is beneficial all the time. My point is that calling one kind of radiation beneficial, but another not beneficial doesn't make any sense because radiation doesn't work that way.


It may be that you are taking this theory a little too seriously.
Probably. :smalltongue: Want to stop talking about it?

[Sartharina]

The radiation itself is beneficial. If you get too much, you merely end up on a fast-track to Paradise, which is a beneficial result.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

The radiation itself is beneficial. If you get too much, you merely end up on a fast-track to Paradise, which is a beneficial result.

Yeah, that's less like radiation and more like some sort of unknown magical property.

[Terrador]

Detect Evil is blocked because Rich is treating it like other divinations, which are blocked by lead (see: Girard's Pyramid, Nale's team scanning it). The lawyer was grasping at straws, stupid, purposefully framing it as something he knew it wasn't, or some combination of the above.

If someone already made this case, my bad. I didn't see it in the thread.

[Keltest]

Detect Evil is blocked because Rich is treating it like other divinations, which are blocked by lead (see: Girard's Pyramid, Nale's team scanning it). The lawyer was grasping at straws, stupid, purposefully framing it as something he knew it wasn't, or some combination of the above.

If someone already made this case, my bad. I didn't see it in the thread.

based on what weve seen of the lawyers, im going with "All of the above"

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Detect Evil is blocked because Rich is treating it like other divinations, which are blocked by lead (see: Girard's Pyramid, Nale's team scanning it). The lawyer was grasping at straws, stupid, purposefully framing it as something he knew it wasn't, or some combination of the above.

If someone already made this case, my bad. I didn't see it in the thread.

I think something close to that had already been said, but you can be forgiven for that since this thread went fairly off-topic after that.

[Loreweaver15]

Guys if something is radiated as energy then it's radiation come on

[Vinyadan]

Guys if something is radiated as energy then it's radiation come on

Never wear an armour made from a radiant dragon's scales. Never.

[Vedhin]

Never wear an armour made from a radiant dragon's scales. Never.

And don't wear anything made from other dragons. Or anything with scales-- those might be radioactive too!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

And don't wear anything made from other dragons. Or anything with scales-- those might be radioactive too!

Don't wear anything, just to be safe. Being invisible is the only way to protect yourself entirely.

[Vedhin]

Don't wear anything, just to be safe. Being invisible is the only way to protect yourself entirely.

But what about See Invisibility? :smalleek:

[Jaxzan Proditor]

But what about See Invisibility? :smalleek:

No! Nowhere is safe! :smalleek:

[Keltest]

No! Nowhere is safe! :smalleek:

im pretty sure Nowhere isn't safe either.

[Vedhin]

All is lost! Miko's wanton use of Detect Evil has reduced existence to radioactive, uninhabitable wasteland!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

im pretty sure Nowhere isn't safe either.
Is Someplace Else safe then? Or is all hope truly lost?

All is lost! Miko's wanton use of Detect Evil has reduced existence to radioactive, uninhabitable wasteland!
Indeed. There is no hope left. :smallfrown:

[Keltest]

Is Someplace Else safe then? Or is all hope truly lost?

Indeed. There is no hope left. :smallfrown:

im sure Somewhere is safe. if you line everything in lead, it can stop ALL the radiation!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

im sure Somewhere is safe. if you line everything in lead, it can stop ALL the radiation!

For some reason, I don't feel like that's healthy in the long run.

[Keltest]

For some reason, I don't feel like that's healthy in the long run.

well at least they aren't being irradiated

[Jaxzan Proditor]

well at least they aren't being irradiated

Yes, but at what cost?!

[Keltest]

Yes, but at what cost?!

well they have to look at a lot of lead. And they can never have contact with another living soul. (though there are some who would appreciate this, im sure). but hey! no irradiation!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

well they have to look at a lot of lead. And they can never have contact with another living soul. (though there are some who would appreciate this, im sure). but hey! no irradiation!

I suppose it all depends on whether not having any radiation is worth lead poisoning.

[Sartharina]

Guys, guys - Light is radiation. If you can see things, it means your eyes are being subject to radiation.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Guys, guys - Light is radiation. If you can see things, it means your eyes are being subject to radiation.

Yeah, it's gonna be pretty dark inside all that lead.

[Domino Quartz]

well they have to look at a lot of lead. And they can never have contact with another living soul. (though there are some who would appreciate this, im sure). but hey! no irradiation!

Are they allowed to have contact with an undead soul?

[Keltest]

Are they allowed to have contact with an undead soul?

depends, does it give off radiation?

[Domino Quartz]

depends, does it give off radiation?

Does negative energy count?

[Keltest]

Does negative energy count?

of course! that stuff can kill you! (a lot faster than light can, too)

[Jaxzan Proditor]

of course! that stuff can kill you! (a lot faster than light can, too)

So, no vampires then. Are positive energy spirits allowed?

[Keltest]

So, no vampires then. Are positive energy spirits allowed?

hmm, good question. Would the beneficial effects of positive energy negate the radiation?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

hmm, good question. Would the beneficial effects of positive energy negate the radiation?

Well, if that is what happens, looks like the best place to cover with lead (until recently, anyways) was the throne room in Azure City.

Now, would the positive energy spirits somehow help against the lead poisoning?

[Keltest]

Well, if that is what happens, looks like the best place to cover with lead (until recently, anyways) was the throne room in Azure City.

Now, would the positive energy spirits somehow help against the lead poisoning?

probably. There isn't much enough of it cant cure (including being alive).

[Jaxzan Proditor]

probably. There isn't much enough of it cant cure (including being alive).

Okay, all good then. So, looks like we need to find a way to bind some positive energy spirits to our hypothetical lead covered place.

[Loreweaver15]

Except those are giving off radiation too :P

[Sartharina]

hmm, good question. Would the beneficial effects of positive energy negate the radiation?The radiation of Positive energy is beneficial unless you recieve so much in such intensity that it makes you explode. "Radiation" ranges from extremely harmful (Evil alignments, Gamma rays and shorter wavelengths), to beneficial (Good alignments, Visible light), to no effect whatsoever (Infrared wavelengths)

[Vedhin]

The radiation of Positive energy is beneficial unless you recieve so much in such intensity that it makes you explode. "Radiation" ranges from extremely harmful (Evil alignments, Gamma rays and shorter wavelengths), to beneficial (Good alignments, Visible light), to no effect whatsoever (Infrared wavelengths)

It's still radiation. You know what else gives off radiation? That's right, plutonium. Therefore, it must be as harmful as plutonium.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Except those are giving off radiation too :P
But it's GOOD in small doses radiation! :smallbiggrin:

[Sartharina]

It's still radiation. You know what else gives off radiation? That's right, plutonium. Therefore, it must be as harmful as plutonium.

There are two kinds of radiation. Good and Evil radiation. Plutonium is Evil radiation. Detect Evil works by detecting the evil radiation of an Evil person, which is why it seems to work as though harmful radiation's involved in the process - it is, but it's not the emitter.