New Interesting PrC's

[grarrrg]

Poking around the SRD, noticed a handful of new PrC's that weren't there before.
After giving them a read (and updating the Dipping Guide), I thought I'd point some out, because they are quite interesting.

Ulfen Guard (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/ulfen-guard) (Furious Guardian going by the SRD) is basically an alignment-free Barbarian.
The class has a good Will Save (and Fort, but no one cares). All levels count/stack towards Rage. And you can 'guard' someone > they get +Dodge AC, you take -1 penalty AC.
The interesting part, aside from the Lawful-Rage, are the 'Guard Dedications'. At every odd level you get a bonus.
Alert Guardian: Enter Rage as an Immediate Action
Clothed in Civilization: Heavy Armor prof, at level 5 if you have the Fast Movement ability, it still works in Heavy Armor
Formal Training: class levels count/stack for Fighter levels, and you get a bonus "fighter bonus feat" (someone is still stuck in 3.5 land...)
Rage Power: can be taken up to 3 times
Uncanny Dodge: can be taken up to 3 times. 1st is Uncanny Dodge, 2nd time is Improved, 3rd time your 'chosen ally' gets Imp Uncanny if they are adjacent to you.

Overall not too shabby (for a 'fighting' PrC anyway)


Evangelist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/evangelist)
Standard "rogue-lite" chassis: d8HD, 3/4 Bab, 6 Skills/level. The Reqs actually have a multiple choice, either 5 Bab, 5 Ranks in _any_ skill, or 3rd level spells.
I'm only going to point out _1_ class feature. It's a doozy, and there is minimal downside attached:

At 2nd level, the evangelist must choose a class she belonged to before adding the prestige class to be her aligned class. She gains all the class features for this class, essentially adding every evangelist level beyond 1st to her aligned class to determine what class features she gains. She still retains the Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and skill ranks of the prestige class, but gains all other class features of her aligned class as well as those of the evangelist prestige class.
Stacks.
With.
ANYTHING.
:eek:

[Korahir]

is this some aprils fools, joke? holy hell, this is broken beyond believe.

[Callin]

That Evangelist can be so abused.... specially in a 3.P game.

[Pinkie Pyro]

I don't quite see the big deal about evangelist, unless it's about getting epic feats/progression pre-epic?

[Alleran]

The Reqs actually have a multiple choice, either 5 Bab, 5 Ranks in _any_ skill, or 3rd level spells.
I'm only going to point out _1_ class feature. It's a doozy, and there is minimal downside attached:

Stacks.
With.
ANYTHING.
:eek:
You can also enter it at 4th level. Deific Obedience requires 3 ranks in Knowledge (Religion), so you'll need to pick it up at 3rd level, but as long as you're an Aasimar or a Scryer-Arcane-School wizard, you'll have the necessary 3rd level spell access (since SLAs count as spells).

Unfortunately, you do need to perform your Obedience every day, but most of them shouldn't be too hard to accomplish.

[Callin]

Say you start the game as a rogue. At lvl 5 you become dedicated to your god and at lvl 6 start taking Evangelist. At lvl 7 you then pick Rogue as your Class. You are then have all the class features of a lvl 6 Rogue and a lvl 2 Evangelist. Using the new BaB, HD, Skills, and Saves of the Evangelist.

Now say you are a Sorc or Wiz and do this.. now you update from a d6 to a D8 and are still a Sorc or Wiz with a better BaB and better skill points.

[Pinkie Pyro]

Say you start the game as a rogue. At lvl 5 you become dedicated to your god and at lvl 6 start taking Evangelist. At lvl 7 you then pick Rogue as your Class. You are then have all the class features of a lvl 6 Rogue and a lvl 2 Evangelist. Using the new BaB, HD, Skills, and Saves of the Evangelist.

Now say you are a Sorc or Wiz and do this.. now you update from a d6 to a D8 and are still a Sorc or Wiz with a better BaB and better skill points.

exactly, though, that's not really a huge boon for a Sorc or Wiz.

[Callin]

Its not a huge boon? to get EVERYTHING -1 lvl a Sorc does and to get EVERYTHING an Evangelist does. At the same time. Thats broken dude.

[Yanisa]

Yet other Sorcerers without the Evangelist can cast the powerful spells sooner. It's still insane and silly, but casters hate loosing a caster level. Then again, I don't know the boons and what they can offer. Maybe there is something that is worth loosing a caster level.

[Alleran]

Yet other Sorcerers without the Evangelist can cast the powerful spells sooner. It's still insane and silly, but casters hate loosing a caster level.
Join a guild (Inner Sea Magic). Once you get Eclectic Training, you gain back that +1 spellcaster level (yes, spellcaster level, not caster level), up to your HD limit. Esoteric Training increases that to +3 spellcaster levels, again limited by HD.

[grarrrg]

Say you start the game as a rogue. At lvl 5 you become dedicated to your god and at lvl 6 start taking Evangelist. At lvl 7 you then pick Rogue as your Class. You are then have all the class features of a lvl 6 Rogue and a lvl 2 Evangelist. Using the new BaB, HD, Skills, and Saves of the Evangelist.

I'd say Rogue is a poor example as they actually have better basic stats:
Rogue has d8HD, 3/4 Bab, 8 Skills and Ref Save
Evangelist has d8HD, 3/4 Bab, 6 Skills and Ref Save

Evangelist is a slight downgrade in that respect.

Whereas a Caster will lose 1 caster level, but gain better HD, Bab, and Skills (Saves are debatable).

As for the Full Bab mundanes, they lose a good bit on the basics as well (still gain Skills though).
Huh, what do you know, yet ANOTHER option that's better for Casters than it is for Mundanes...

[T.G. Oskar]

I find the Gray Warden interesting.

It's a 3/4 BAB class with a good amount of skill points and 7/10ths spellcasting (not that bad, compared to other classes). It gives some of the tricks of Inquisitors to any divine spellcaster (Cleric, Paladin, Oracle), but it naturally progresses some Inquisitor class features. The class grants Sneak Attack, a more limited form of the Inquisitor's Judgment (with a weird way of stacking), the Bane class feature somewhat improved (which stacks with an Inquisitor's judgment), and even Stern Gaze as a class feature. However, most of the class features relate to being threatening and being an executor if necessary: you get some feats for free as you gain levels (only about 6, which range from the sucky Sidestep to the interesting Dastardly Finish), a 1/day effect that duplicates an arrow of slaying but with a slightly better DC, and anyone the Gray Warden kills rarely gets to revive (Final Demise + True Death). Despite the loss of spellcasting, the class grants quite a bit of class features to compensate. It also adds most classes (specifically Inquisitors) improved damage potential.

The reason why it's both good and interesting is because it does a very slight refluff of the class (from protector of the faith's purity to grim executioner of outlaws) without focusing so much on the fluff that the progression suffers. You can compare the losses (a few teamwork feats, Exploit Weakness, Slayer, True Judgment) with the gains (Sneak Attack +3d6, execution feats, sinister bane/Menacing weapon enhancement, the bonuses to conceal identity, the bonuses to interrogation, using Intimidate instead of Diplomacy to gather information, Slaying Judgment, Final Demise + True Death), and you can see that the PrC actually grants more than it loses (well, the hit to 6th level spells hurts, but not as much as not getting them at all, which the build allows).

[deuxhero]

Ulfen Guard is an OK class, but it sucks at actually guarding something like most/all 3.X classes without some way to force an enemy to attack you.

[grarrrg]

I find the Gray Warden interesting.

Bah! Old news! That class is, like, totally 2 years ago!
I will grant you 'interesting' though. It is very much "Inquisitor, the PrC!" harkens back to the days of yore when there was a "Prestige Paladin" class, and such.


Ulfen Guard is an OK class, but it sucks at actually guarding something like most/all 3.X classes without some way to force an enemy to attack you.

True, but it does get some otherwise unique abilities.
It can share Improved Uncanny Dodge with your 'chosen ally', and they use YOUR Effective Rogue level to ignore Flanking.

Level 6 lets you take a Move Action as an Immediate action any time your 'chosen ally' moves. Must be within 10ft. start/end, but with a cooperative ally, this basically gives you double moves and/or Pounce.

Level 8 lets you make Attacks of Opportunity anytime someone moves next to, or attack your 'chosen ally'.

Again, none are "omgnerfplz", but they are interesting.

[Erik Vale]

Apply Evangelist to a Hellfire Warlock worshiping Mephistopholes. Fits fluff wise and adds another 20d6 damage to hellfire blast in 3.x games [I think that 42d6 more than it's supposed to grant you with Leg Champ, Bloodlines + The trick class]. With tricks it's good for casters, but other than progressing prc's I cant think of a base PC that really benefits asside from the casters.

[Callin]

Thought of this last night while making characters. On an Occultist (3rd party i know) it grants a +14 binder level. So when you finish at 13 (asimar early entry) you get binder level of 17 and can bind lvl 9s early.

This can also be done with any ACF that grants binding.

[papr_weezl8472]

Join a guild (Inner Sea Magic). Once you get Eclectic Training, you gain back that +1 spellcaster level (yes, spellcaster level, not caster level), up to your HD limit. Esoteric Training increases that to +3 spellcaster levels, again limited by HD.

Was gonna add this before I saw I'd been beaten to it. You can lose (up to three) caster levels in basically any Pathfinder caster build, because you don't actually lose the caster levels (just stuff like bloodline/school features, and favored class benefits, I suppose).

So the Evangelist winds up in the (fairly small, in Pathfinder) Better than Straight Wizard category, and tops it at that. What.

[Prime32]

Anyone have any info on the bonuses from Deific Obedience? Because it seems to use the same mechanics as Demonic Obedience (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/demonic-obedience), which was probably the strongest feat in the game (http://www.pathfindercommunity.net/demon-lords) especially for a noncaster. Its main issue was that its early access PrC was caster-based, a problem which Evangelist doesn't have.

A Summoner/Evangelist could be pretty fun - there aren't any other ways to advance eidolons AFAIK.

[Drelua]

I just found the Ulfen Guard yesterday too. I'd really like to play one, especially since I'll be introducing some new players to Pathfinder in a couple weeks and I always like to have my characters watch peoples' backs, especially when they're new. Naturally, I wouldn't optimize much for this campaign, but if I did, what sort of build would be good?

I was thinking something along the lines of Urban Barbarian 2/Weapon Master Fighter 3 as a base for it, getting a furious weapon and gloves of dueling as soon as possible because I just love to have both of those at once. I was also thinking this might call for a reach weapon. Thoughts?

[Ravens_cry]

The 10th level capstone for the Ulfen Guard is neat, as it basically gives you an easy rage cycle. All those 'once per rage' rage powers can now be used all the more often.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Evangelist: d8 HD, medium BAB, 6 + Int skills, only good reflex saves. So...meh to garbage for martial classes. For casters (spells is a class feature, right? :smallcool: ) it's pretty much a straight-up boon. Typical.

"Furious Guardian" looks decent, which is high praise for a martial PrC in Pathfinder. Would be a good way to make a Varangian Guard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangian_Guard) type of character. It kinda peters out the last few levels sadly....the last two abilities are pretty worthless.

[Ravens_cry]

I disagree, see above. Yes, it's late, and there's other, earlier ways to do it, but rage cycling can still be pretty sweet.

[deuxhero]

Anyone have any info on the bonuses from Deific Obedience? Because it seems to use the same mechanics as Demonic Obedience (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/demonic-obedience), which was probably the strongest feat in the game (http://www.pathfindercommunity.net/demon-lords) especially for a noncaster. Its main issue was that its early access PrC was caster-based, a problem which Evangelist doesn't have.

I know the "good" variant of that feat has some pretty powerful stuff (Lymnieris let's you give a permanent greater polymorph. Large Earth Elemental seems the best option to stick on a bruiser at first glance, but there is probably a better human shaped large+ thing to turn into). The deity variant should too. Great feat, though it won't do much till level 16 (Amazed Paizo didn't split this into multiple feats as they love to do)

[Valdras]

Evangelist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/evangelist)
Standard "rogue-lite" chassis: d8HD, 3/4 Bab, 6 Skills/level. The Reqs actually have a multiple choice, either 5 Bab, 5 Ranks in _any_ skill, or 3rd level spells.
I'm only going to point out _1_ class feature. It's a doozy, and there is minimal downside attached:


Does this include Prestige classes? Because I would love to add this to my Mystic Theurge.

[Sith_Happens]

Go go gadget initiator level* cheese!

* Or whatever DSP calls it instead, I forget.

[grarrrg]

Does this include Prestige classes? Because I would love to add this to my Mystic Theurge.

On the one hand, it only says 'class' and not 'base class'.
On the other hand...it depends if the 'budget epic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement)' rules are in play (and if the DM is willing to put up with your nonsense :smalltongue:).

Without the 'budget epic' rules Mystic Theurge goes to level 10 and stops. There is nothing else after it, so trying to 'progress it' would do nothing. You could go Mystic Theurge 1/Evangelist 10 and at least boost the HD/Bab/Skills though.

With the 'budget epic' rules in play this seems perfectly fine (beware the flying books though :smalleek:).