Need some un biased advice of a GM/player issue

[Odessa333]

Hey all!

So I'm having an issue (as title says) and could use some input.

Our party is a six person team (and that pesky GM I suppose). I am the team's healer (animist/Druid type), and we have a Mage, and four fighters. Yes, four. Not surprisingly, our basic battle plan has us sending the fighters to the front lines... usually without much thinking (for example, my character pointed out a trap of some kind, but i couldn't determine the type. Fighter A rushed into the trap knowing it was there for reasons i cannot fathom). The NPC's give us orders, and the phrase the GM and others repeat often is 'just go with it!.'

The issue is I don't just go with it. I ask questions. I try to find other solutions. If I have an opinion, I voice it. The Gm and my team are claiming I do this too much, that I am upsetting everyone by not being a team player. I should 'just go with it.'

One of our arguments from last session was over torture. We are trying to recover a holy artifact of the church stolen by the thieves guild. Said artifact could kill thousands in the wrong hands. We raided one of their bases, and captured 'someone.' This bandit claimed he was a low leveled minion and knew nothing. I pointed out a few things, like how this bandit the one giving orders to the others here, how he had bodyguards, etc. Minions do not have minions protecting them. The bandit insists he knows nothing, but if we go to this tomb, we can find out more. The other players jump on this and are ready to go.

My problem was this had happened to us before like, four session ago. Captured guy claimed to be a minion, told us to go a tower for more information, and it was a trap.

I talk and I talk, but no one is listening. They tell me - again - to 'just go with it.' I insist we need to torture this guy, to get some actual information out of him. I make my first roll, and the guy tells us 'ok, there is more, but they'll kill me if I tell you.' My fellow players are satisfied with this, saying I should be happy I learned something and we should press on. They get angry and angrier over this, and I'm forced to give up interrogating the bandit without learning what the 'more' is. We head to the tomb, and surprise! Trap. A player dies in said trap, and I'm blamed as the healer... regardless that I warned the team my healing powers were already tapped after rushing into the previous two traps. I had asked to rest, and was told going forward now would make it more challenging. It did alright, and someone died for it. Which again...my fault.

After this session, the GM pulls me aside and tells me I need to stop upsetting the others with my belligerent personality. I am causing waves and I should take the hints given and 'just go with it.' Then he tells me he should have seen it coming since I wrote a back story (apparently he told the others not to bother.... news to me). He flat out says if I can't tone down my role playing, I'm out of the group.

If I dealt with this kind of behavior elsewhere, I'd walk out and be glad for it. The kicker in all this is the GM is my brother. I've helped raise him since he was child, and he's one of the most dear people to me. I taught him how to role play, and now I'm realizing I didn't teach him enough. We haven't gamed together in years, and this was supposed to be a grand reuniting/bonding thing. Now, it just seems to be splitting us apart even more.

Honestly, I'm depressed. I haven't had the chance to game in years and was so excited for this chance. The only rules books I have are outdated (not many people play MERP anymore) and I can't afford to buy books for a new system. I love gaming, but it's an expensive hobby and I stopped playing when I could no longer afford the cost. If I walk away from this group, the reality is I may never game again. Though I stop giving my characters a back story, actual thoughts... am I even still role playing or just showing up to be a band aid? I'm so conflicted over what to do, as it feels like I lose either way.

Sigh. Thanks for listening to me vent. If anyone can offer any advice/insight, I'd love to hear it.

[Red Fel]

This is a hard situation for a lot of people; it's especially hard when the people involved are close to you, like family. So put that out of your mind for a moment.

Take a step back, and ask yourself two questions: What do I want out of this game? Am I getting it?
Gaming is a hobby, like any other hobby. When it gives you what you need, it's worth the expense. When it doesn't, you have to step back and re-evaluate.

So, you have to first decide on whether you're getting what you want out of it. If you game for the opportunity to be around family and friends, then swallow the disappointment. Embrace the "go with it." But if you game for a sense of agency and control, a sort of experience that you feel you're no longer getting, then it's time to re-evaluate.

How should you re-evaluate? The standard advice on this board: talk to your DM. Not during the game, but in the metaphorical cool of evening. Take him aside and explain your feelings. It sounds like (and correct me if I'm wrong) you enjoy the game, but feel more and more that it's turning into a cycle of "get fed a mission, discover it's a trap, repeat and don't ask questions," and that this is ruining your sense of immersion. If that's so - or if it's something else you can articulate - explain to your GM in a civil, constructive, helpful manner, what you'd like out of the game, what you feel you're not getting, what you suggest might help, and what you're willing to do to help get there.

If he hears you, if he listens, the problem is likely to be resolved. If, however, it becomes apparent that no change is forthcoming, you need to re-evaluate again.

And this time, remember that you do have the ultimate option. It's not one to be used lightly, but as others have said on this forum, no gaming is better than bad gaming. If you're honestly feeling frustrated rather than satisfied by your gaming experience, it may be time to walk away.

Don't take it as an insult to your friends or your brother. Certainly don't let them take it that way. It's not. You can be friends with people away from the table. You can find a new table without offending them. You're not "breaking up" with anyone on a personal level. Leaving the table is difficult, but if you're honestly not feeling the satisfaction you want, and if the others are honestly frustrated with your actions as well, it may become something to consider.

As a final note, don't assume that walking away from this game means walking away from gaming. You'd be surprised just how many gaming groups there are. There are websites to help you find people interested in the same games. There are ways, although it may take some patience. If this is a passion of yours, pursue it.

[Morbis Meh]

My advice: leave the game, not because the DM/other players are jerks or any silly reason like that because realistically they have a different playstyle than you. You prefer thinking out of the box and being creative while they seem to thrive on 'kick in the door' style gaming. The fact that 2/3's are fighters screams that they are looking to engage in what the class was designed to do: combat. Is it wrong? No, they are entitled to your definition of fun and they are entitled to theirs; however, they are wrong for actively telling you to shut up and control how your character is being played as (basically a healbot). I understand you are worried about your relationship with your brother but realistically it shouldn't change over a game. Like Red Fel mentioned before, talk to him one on one and explain your feelings and concerns to him. Apparently he leans towards kick in the door games as well and prefers to run them thus either play the character how they want it played (probably the less than savory option since you wouldn't be having fun) or walk away and find another group IRL or online (it's much easier than you think and you will be much happier for it). The only BADWRONGFUN in gaming is playing something you obviously you aren't enjoying. Just leave graciously and respectfully while stating why you are leaving (use only I statements it will make it much smoother with less hurt feelings). It should be simple and the only issue your party will complain about is that one of them will now have to play the 'healer' instead of a fighter (if this is 3.5 anyone with system knowledge would know that a druid utterly outclasses a fighter but that is an entirely different matter)

[illyahr]

^^What Red said, but I'd also like to add something.

Gaming is a social event for people to enjoy themselves. It's about having fun and hanging with your buddies. If one or the other is not happening, something is wrong. It sounds to me that you are dealing with a group of "fresh" gamers, those who play based off of video game and movie fantasy, and you are an experienced gamer.

There is nothing wrong with their style of play, but it may not be as fulfilling for those who expect more than "get a quest, do the quest, fight the monsters, get the loot" kind of experience. You are both right, in that regard. It is important for you to get the experience you want, but it is also important that they get the experience they want. If an agreement can't be reached, it might be easier for everyone to find a group that meets your needs. It sucks, but being that odd person, even if you mean well, will disrupt everyone else. Then no one is having fun.

[Airk]

I want to address a different portion of the OP, because I think other folks have the basics pretty well covered.


Honestly, I'm depressed. I haven't had the chance to game in years and was so excited for this chance. The only rules books I have are outdated (not many people play MERP anymore) and I can't afford to buy books for a new system. I love gaming, but it's an expensive hobby and I stopped playing when I could no longer afford the cost. If I walk away from this group, the reality is I may never game again. Though I stop giving my characters a back story, actual thoughts... am I even still role playing or just showing up to be a band aid? I'm so conflicted over what to do, as it feels like I lose either way.

I'm pleased to report that this is outdated. No longer do you need to commit to buying multiple $50 books to play an RPG. You probably already have some dice. Let's get stuff started.

Dungeon World is $25 for a print copy (with free PDF) (http://www.indiepressrevolution.com/xcart/product.php?productid=18774&cat=0&featured=Y) or $10 for the PDF by itself. (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/108028/Dungeon-World) From there, there are TONS of resources online for free.
Both (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/114902/Fate-Accelerated-Edition?filters=0_0_0_0_44305) versions (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/114903/Fate-Core-System?filters=0_0_0_0_44305)of Fate are "pay what you want" and have lots of free content.
Houses of the Blooded (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/61061/Houses-of-the-Blooded) is also PWYW.
Heroes Against Darkness (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/107559/Heroes-Against-Darkness)is free in PDF, as are many other 'OSR' style games.
The current Bundle of Holding (http://bundleofholding.com/index/current) gives you a small pile of games for $8, or a large pile for $20.

For the price of one "90s style" rulebook that might not even have been enough to play a game by itself, you can get literally all of the above and then some. And even if you're insistent on having physical books, most of the above are available, physical, for $20 or less.

So get yourself some games. There's no reason to let cost keep you out of the hobby. And now we're on to advice.

Tone it down in your brother's game. Stick around. Relax. Play it 'beer and peanuts' style. Then find a game you like. And give an exciting GMing pitch, along the lines of "Hey guys! I found this awesome game that is totally all about X and Y, and there's this really cool thing Z! I'd love to run a one shot for you all so we can try it out!" Then run a game and try to gently guide folks towards the type of RP you'd like to see happen. (Note: Several of the systems described above will do this more or less gently. Dungeon World in particular is a fabulous 'next step from D&D' game.) Hopefully horizons are broadened, and everyone has a good time.

If not. Well, you've still got some good games, so you just need to find some folks who ARE interested in playing them.

Don't let perceived cost keep you out of this hobby.

[Lorsa]

I am sorry this happened to you. It is most definitely a very difficult situation.

Would you mind telling us how your roleplaying was like with your brother in the past? Who was the GM then?

Whatever the cause, your brother and you currently don't want the same thing out of roleplaying. It happens. Perhaps you have played a lot without him and thus your taste has changed or he started playing with other people and his taste changed. Doesn't really matter, and of course it is sad to no longer be able to share something you once did with family, but this could happen with any other hobby or interest just as well.

Basically you have three choices.

You could stay in the group and "just go with it". It is clear that's how all the rest wants to play and no matter how much I might agree with your style, when one person is disrupting the group they're the one with the problem. So if you want to stay and play you need to change. It might not be so bad!

You could leave the group and spare your brother the difficult feelings of having to kick his sister. He is probably under a lot of pressure from the other players but really don't want to upset you. By leaving yourself, with a neutral statement referring to the playstyles but still complementing his GMing you can avoid potentially worse feelings for both of you.

You could organise a new group where you are the GM. Either with only your brother as player or with some select people. That way you can show him your style of playing and see if he enjoys it more. Chances are he might not have experienced it the same way you have.

[jaydubs]

Since others have already offered good advice on how to handle the situation, I'm going to focus on this bit.


I haven't had the chance to game in years and was so excited for this chance. The only rules books I have are outdated (not many people play MERP anymore) and I can't afford to buy books for a new system. I love gaming, but it's an expensive hobby and I stopped playing when I could no longer afford the cost. If I walk away from this group, the reality is I may never game again.

If you haven't, go ahead and take a look at Roll20 (http://roll20.net/). It's designed to allow people to play tabletop games online, and I've had good experiences with both the site and user base. Most games are run with voice communication, along with web based maps and rolling. It's also free to use, so no harm in going for a test run.

GMs are putting up recruiting threads just about every day, and for a lot of different game systems (though 3.5 and Pathfinder are the most common). And from personal experience, I can say that most GMs I've encountered are very interested in players who write backstories and roleplay their characters.

Also, there are many, many rulesets available online nowadays, legally, for free. The basics of 3.5, almost all of pathfinder, and I'm sure a lot of other systems as well.

TLDR: Roll20 (http://roll20.net/) + d20pfsrd (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/) = lots and lots of free gaming opportunities.

[erikun]

I've ran into this situation myself, both in RPGs and in other games - where one player is taking the game very seriously, and the other players not at all. My best advice would probably be to focus that seriousness towards something else, rather than realism in the game world. Try focusing it towards personal roleplay motivations, or inventive use of items, or something else.

My other advice would be to just stop playing.

Be sure to bring this up with the GM, if you can. Don't be confrontational, but explain that the game needs to be fun for you as well as for everyone else. Yes, I get that everyone else is enjoying the kick-in-the-door style of play without thinking much. However, when you run across generals who have no idea what is going on anywhere, it just doesn't make a bit of sense. Ask if this can change a bit, or if not, if the GM will be fine with you changing your playstyle so that you can enjoy yourself.

Jaydubs does bring up a good point, that there are a lot of ways to play games online if it comes to that.

[TriForce]

also a possibility:

talk to the GM, explain why you do things like that, and ask him to put a few things in his campaign that would fit with your playstyle.

its all well and good that the others like a "dumb" hack and slash, but this is still a roleplaying game, and smart thinking should imho be part of the deal. the GM played with you before, and thus should know how you play. adjusting the campaign a little bit so you can do your thing too shouldnt be THAT big of a deal

[Dawgmoah]

Odessa333, I've been where you are today, both as a DM and as a player. Most points I could make have been made by others. But my suggestion is: don't give up. Try to find a way to continue with the game to spend time with your brother and slowly, if possible, subvert the game closer to your way of thinking. You are not doing anything wrong; you're not overthinking the situation. In character just point out that you all have been led into a trap before and it can certainly happen again. A miserable game session, or two, or more. But....

Explore Roll20, this website, and other sites. Find venues for your more cerebral minded way of playing. If you find other games over the net, great, and if the day comes this game you are in with your brother becomes unbearable at least you part company with his game without giving up all of your gaming.

I hope you can find a game you can enjoy. As mentioned already: there are also plenty of free or near free gaming systems out there. And there are DMs and players who want to play in games with not only those that want to solve everything with a fight but those that want to also out think the opposition and even avoid unnecessary scenarios.

Good luck.

[ElenionAncalima]

Also, there are many, many rulesets available online nowadays, legally, for free. The basics of 3.5, almost all of pathfinder, and I'm sure a lot of other systems as well.

TLDR: Roll20 (http://roll20.net/) + d20pfsrd (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/) = lots and lots of free gaming opportunities.

^^^
This

I have been playing Pathfinder for 4ish years now. I have been a player and a GM. I have also played 3.5, Mutants and Masterminds and DND Next. I own exactly one gaming book, the Pathfinder Gamemastery Guide...and I don't use it to run games. I just bought it because I heard it was a good read for new GMs.

Now I am far from a tabletop gaming connoisseur, as the limited systems I've played no doubt reveals, but I have enjoyed the hobby for years while spending little to no money on it.

[Rhynn]

It sounds like you play with a bunch of morons. Find smarter people to play with for a more involving a game. The morons are going to be frustrated by any attempts to find depth in the game or to focus on any issue longer than their attention span.

If you want to stay with the group, you have to fit in. That's how the world works. We moderate our behavior to some degree for any context, and if we don't, we get friction and conflict.

So, again, find a different group of players that fits you better.

Don't fall victim to gamer Stockholm syndrome; I would rather hammer nails through my temples than endure what you're describing in a hobby that's supposed to be fun. (Ironically, that would probably help me endure it.)

You can't change people. Forget that right away. It's not going to work. Lots of people make themselves miserable thinking and hoping that they can.


Also, check out my sig for some free RPGs, and forget that ridiculous "this RPG is outdated" nonsense - plenty of people choose 20-40 -year-old RPGs over other options. The notion that there are some kind of obligatory ongoing costs is particularly ridiculous - you can play for ever with just the core books. (Money just lets you get content you don't have to put the work into making yourself.)

[Airk]

Also, check out my sig for some free RPGs, and forget that ridiculous "this RPG is outdated" nonsense - plenty of people choose 20-40 -year-old RPGs over other options. The notion that there are some kind of obligatory ongoing costs is particularly ridiculous - you can play for ever with just the core books. (Money just lets you get content you don't have to put the work into making yourself.)

Well, MERP might not be "outdated" but it's definitely DATED. I wouldn't really suggest trying to get a game of it going. ;)

[nedz]

I'm going to echo what others have said about playstyle. There is no right way to play this game but it seems that the kind of game you want to play is different from the hack 'n' slash at least four of the others are into. Your choices are to run with this or find another group — though the chances are that they will change after a while, though don't hold your breath.

[Rhynn]

Well, MERP might not be "outdated" but it's definitely DATED. I wouldn't really suggest trying to get a game of it going. ;)

Granted, I'm working out a bunch of houserules for it, but I have every intention of getting all the use out of my many MERP modules one of these days. They are freaking stellar old-school stuff. (Also, funnily enough, MERP is basically superior to every edition of Rolemaster published since the mid-90s except for Express - and that's like 3 editions.)

Getting a game of it going is as easy as for any other RPG, in my experience: "Hey, I've got this game, I know how it works, I'll run it - let's go!"

I mean, what the heck else is there to playing a game? That's worked for me for 20 years and 30+ systems.

[dps]

The DM's your little brother? Turn him over your knee and give him a good spanking.

[Theomniadept]

Look, Odessa. You tell your group this, you read them this post of mine. You paint me out to be the bad guy because otherwise they'll act like idiots and think you're complaining about them to others.

These party members of yours are 100% stupid. Dumber than dirt. They're not dumb because they run headlong into traps - some characters do that. They're not dumb because they died - characters do that too. They're not dumb because they're too stupid to realize the DM is placing the same trap in front of them and they're running into it over and over - they're dumb because they think they're not at fault.

You tell them I said they are some sort of expletive. I could come up with a few but the rules forbid me from posting them. Just make sure they know what jerks they are for their idiocy. They yell at you for attempting to roleplay when they're playing four tier 5 crappy fighters. They yell at you for their deaths when they've shown they can't even muster the amount of intellect a lab rat displays on a daily basis. They want to lead the party by the nose and act like idiots and die repeatedly? Let them. You're a tier 1 Druid, you can literally do whatever you want, even their jobs, and more effectively to boot. They wanna adventure without a healer, that's their prerogative. You have a goal in this game to have fun and your character is clearly intelligent and wise enough to recognize the most basic level 1 thug trap, while theirs run around rolling attack rolls and subtracting from their HP.

You don't have to play with them, and if the DM still wants you in the game you still don't have to. Split the party, go off on your own, and get stuff done while they putz around in traps dying and complaining. Tell NPCs your character is solving their problems while the fighters run around accomplishing nothing and dying to level 1 enemy casters. They can technically argue with results, but at the very least they'll look like the idiots they are in front of others and they might actually see what they look like and change.

[icefractal]

If you do decide to keep playing, there's something you may want to try - stop being the healer, and stop trying to make the party succeed. By which I don't mean PvP or anything! Just switch to some character that doesn't heal and doesn't require teamwork, like a mage/archer/whatever, and give that character a personality where they're less devoted and more along for the ride.

As long as you're trying to keep everyone alive and successful, their repeated dumbassery and refusal to listen is going to grind on you. But if you're just here to watch the show? Then the fact that they fell for the blatantly obvious trap - again - is pretty amusing. Avoid it whenever you can yourself (why I suggested a non-frontline type), and maybe they'll notice how you keep surviving while they keep dying, and think about why that is. Or maybe they won't, but whatever, it's not your problem.

If they try to make you play the healer, just laugh it off. "A healer for this group? Lol, you guys are impossible to keep alive!" If they press it, just explain that you tried playing a healer and they didn't like it, so someone else can do that.

[Lord of Shadows]

Ditto what everyone else has said, plus an emphasis on the fact that you don't need all the books any more to play most RPG's. I didn't pick up on what flavor you are using, but the two major rule sets have "SRD's" or System Reference Documents for free online:

Traditional D&D 3.x (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/home.html)

Paizo's Pathfinder RPG (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/home)

And as others have pointed out, there are a lot of clones out there that are also free - or have a free version - online. You can also find PDF's in abundance with a Google/Yahoo/Etc. search.

The online resources don't always have the newest, coolest releases for things like optimizing a character, but it doesn't sound like your bunch would be much into that anyway. Even so, the Pathfinder site does offer loads of tweaks and fiddly bits that you can tinker with.

To test the water on making someone else be the healer, have your replacement character ready one gaming session and then announce that your character has been summoned away due to something in his backstory. Chances are they will squirm, and I would bet money that they will try to find some mindless NPC healbot to drag along on their quests. You would then be able to bring in your new character, and sit back and watch. I have seen casters and rangers suggested as your replacement, and those are fine, but also perhaps an Alchemist. That would give you plenty of material to chew on without having to worry too much about what those meatwads up front are up to.
.

[chainer1216]

He's your brother?

He's your little brother?

I suggest the liberal use of pink belly's, noogies, wedgies and "stop hitting yourself"s until he understands your perspective.

[Rhynn]

He's your brother?

He's your little brother?

I suggest the liberal use of pink belly's, noogies, wedgies and "stop hitting yourself"s until he understands your perspective.

Yeah, man, abuse fixes everything. You're a genius! And so funny!

Also, there's no way these people are in their late teens or past them when being 3 years older than someone doesn't mean you're twice their size.

[chainer1216]

The older they are the better, it highlights how ridiculous and unreasonable it is to threaten to kick your sibling out of a game.

[Odessa333]

Wowzers, didn't quite expect so many responses. I'll try to respond to the main thoughts here, but if I miss something let me know.

I'm relieved to know I'm not crazy. When it was my opinion against an entire group's, I had my doubts. The thing that gets me is that some of these players are veteran role players that I would expect better behavior from.

I have sent my brother/GM an email trying to outline my thoughts and concerns in a clear manner, going over it twice to avoid blame games, accusations, backhanded insults, etc. In a nutshell, I decided I'm not going to change how I play, but I was willing to work with him to make it work if he was. If that wasn't good enough I'd leave the group. I'm not sure what he'll say, but I'll try and keep this updated.

As for sites like roll20, I do know of them, and have done an online game with roll20. My issue has never been finding a game, it's more of finding a game I know (or can learn) how to play. I'm sure if I looked I could I find a game of D&D 3.5, 4. pathfinder, etc. I just don't know how to play any of them. I never knew of the free references, and let my lack of books hold me back. Having access to 3.5 and pathfinder with these links... well, I will have to spend some time there, and see if there are other such places for other games too. I can't recall how many times I've drooled over books for Shadowrun, or worlds of darkness, or mutants and masterminds, or... well, a lot lol. This could really open some doors for me, so you know, yea and all that :)

Role playing with my brother in the past was a blast. I was typically the GM/DM for our group in those days, and he was a fantastic player. We did do one game where he tried to GM, and to be honest it didn't work out so well. His game had a lot of the same flaws, and it being his first time there were the sloppy errors you might expect of a new GM. The group was patient with him and we made it work. He was still in high school then, and now he's graduated college, lives in another state. I had stopped gaming when he left for college, but I've often heard of the many games he has been in since then, of the games he has run. His wife is a dear friend of mine and has told me he's the best GM of their area. That used to make me happy to hear, thinking I taught him well. Now that I'm finally getting a chance to play with my brother in charge... i'm just shocked. There have been so many issues I would call rookie level.

I mean, two weeks back the rail road plot forced us to meet with members of a church that are clearly the enemies of my faith. I have this whole 'worship nature' thing and a good alignment, they were a cult of darkness/death that oddly enough targeted animals and trees. The GM added that bit with a wink saying I'm going to hate these guys. You think? I knew we were scripted to work with these guys so I went along with it as best I could, making it clear I was against such a thing, pointing out the whole 'evil' thing they had going. End of the day, I was told I was rude to the nice priests and was told to be nicer to them. Half the time I feel like they're doing it on purpose, like they're trying to provoke me. But that's just being paranoid, right?

Rhynn - Don't get me wrong, I am all fine with playing older games. I love MERP and know it inside and out. I've done so many home brew variations of it that it is on the scary level. I know enough of Tolkien's languages that my characters have authentic names. I would play it again if the chance arose, but finding a group willing to play with such an older system has not been so easy for me. I don't live far from the major city of Boston, MA, so you'd think I could find groups easier, but it has not been my experience. Granted, I am willing to admit I might be going about the whole thing wrong. I'm not easy for me to get around (long story) and I'm not as good with computers as I'd like to be. There may be very well be groups I'm unaware of out there, but if I can't find them I can't join them. And at the risk of sounding all loser like, I would sort of need friends to talk with to try the 'Hey, I've got this game, I know how it works, I'll run it - let's go!" approach. That... sounds more pathetic out loud that it did in my head.

icefractal- I don't think I could pull most of your ideas off, but I soooo wish I could. That sounds hilarious. If I stick with the group I might have to try some of these ideas :)


Hehe, I'll have to pass on spanking him. He's sort of 6'5" and healthy, and I'm neither of those. I'm disabled. Long story. I do have a spiffy cane I could hit him with, but I think that might be illegal.

I think I hit the major points, but my eyes are playing tricks on me so I may be wrong. If I did, let me know. In an accent, if you can. Because well, hilarity. I think I hit over tired, so I think it's time for me to stop rambling.

Thanks for the advise, one and all. I really appreciate having a sounding board to prove I'm not crazy.

[Jornophelanthas]

If - after amicable discussion with your brother and solving all out-of-character problems - you do decide to stay with the group, I would recommend that you retire your current character. I can think of several reasons:
- The other players do not particularly like your character. A new character can mean a fresh start for the inter-character relationships. (Even if you don't change your playstyle.)
- Your current character apparently has little motivation to stay with the other characters.
- Your group treats the healer as a scapegoat. If you stop being the healer, you stop being the scapegoat.
- You are not having fun playing your character against the current opposition.

My suggestion would be to find a different niche. Preferably something relatively independent that does not require front-line fighting (like a fighter), that does not paint a giant target on your back (like a wizard), or that does not requires lots of healing. Like an archer, or an illusionist, or a bard, or a witch, or a sneak. Try to stay out of the way, take care of yourself and point out the danger well in advance. Someone who shrugs whenever anyone says "just go with it", and always looks over his/her shoulder. Try to be of mediocre usefulness (so nobody has overly high expectations, but nobody can blame you for being useless either), while still leaving room for flashes of brilliance.

Valid excuses to use for not being the healer anymore - without becoming passive-aggressive - could be:
- "Being the healer started to bore me."
- "I wanted to try something different."
- "I believe the group needs more of [Thing your new character can do well]."

However, if the group starts blaming you for not wanting to be the healer anymore, you should probably leave.

---

Also, a side-thought. If you are playing at your brother's table with your brother's group of friends, and the group is rather large (at six players), could it be that your brother more or less dictated to the other players that he was bringing in his older sibling for this campaign? If that is the case, perhaps the other players are perceiving you as an outsider to their circle, and may correspondingly treat you as a "third wheel" - or worse, as an intruder.
If this is indeed the overriding group dynamic, perhaps it should be addressed directly. Because in-character solutions will never solve out-of-character problems.

[Odessa333]

Well, update of sorts.

I talked with my brother/GM, and he told me he took my concerns seriously, and talked to the others of the group... and they backed up my issues with the game. In a move I didn't see coming, he is stopping the game altogether to reflect on his gaming style.

I'm not sure what to think of the decision. I haven't fully processed it yet. I'm focusing on the good, that my brother and I talked things over without the doom and gloom, joking and laughing like usual. I'm very glad about that, and feel a large weight has been lifted from me.

From here? I'm going to spend some time reading up on pathfinder. Over on roll20, I've signed up for a VERY conveniently offered tutorial game for those new to the system. Pathfinder offers far more options for races and classes, with pages of new rules for me to learn. I'm kind of excited about it, actually.

When I posted this first post, I thought my role playing options so limited, and finding out I was wrong is a wonderful feeling. My thanks go to all those who who posted here, freely offering kind words. I am especially grateful for learning of these new resources. I'll have a character drink a toast to you! ;)

[INDYSTAR188]

Well, update of sorts.

I talked with my brother/GM, and he told me he took my concerns seriously, and talked to the others of the group... and they backed up my issues with the game. In a move I didn't see coming, he is stopping the game altogether to reflect on his gaming style.

I'm not sure what to think of the decision. I haven't fully processed it yet. I'm focusing on the good, that my brother and I talked things over without the doom and gloom, joking and laughing like usual. I'm very glad about that, and feel a large weight has been lifted from me.

From here? I'm going to spend some time reading up on pathfinder. Over on roll20, I've signed up for a VERY conveniently offered tutorial game for those new to the system. Pathfinder offers far more options for races and classes, with pages of new rules for me to learn. I'm kind of excited about it, actually.

When I posted this first post, I thought my role playing options so limited, and finding out I was wrong is a wonderful feeling. My thanks go to all those who who posted here, freely offering kind words. I am especially grateful for learning of these new resources. I'll have a character drink a toast to you! ;)

Hi Odessa! I'm sure the halt in the game is bittersweet as it's nice to see everyone is taking your concerns seriously but kinda sad that he stopped the game. Can I suggest before you guys start your next game you have a session of just open discussion? Of course make it fun by keeping it lighthearted and not too serious but the idea here is to have everyone detail what kind of game they want to play and what kind of characters they're thinking about. This gives your brother some ammo to build his new game around.

[Airk]

Wow! Hooray for resolving issues like adults!

At this point, I'd just "leave the door open" as it were - say something along the lines of "I'm not going to butt in with advice or anything, but if you want to discuss game stuff, or if you want me to try to dig up some resources for you, let me know."

[HighWater]

I talked with my brother/GM, and he told me he took my concerns seriously, and talked to the others of the group... and they backed up my issues with the game. In a move I didn't see coming, he is stopping the game altogether to reflect on his gaming style.

Wow, I guess that explains the attitude of the group. Their "just roll with it"-catchphrase was really a call of protest. They were probably angry with you because you tried so hard to find what they already found lacking so long ago: any way off the railroads. They were annoyed with you because they knew the outcome of such an interrogation could only be two things: you'd learn nothing useful and would still have to go to the Obvious Tomb of Traps, or, alternatively, your brother would be cornered and have the bandit admit it was a trap, without having anything else to give you guys to do... Talk about awkward.
A new groupmember, especially when related to the DM, can be a "safe" target for frustration (hence the blame-game) about the unavoidability of your brothers ploys. This is actually pretty normal group-behaviour (hence all the hazing rituals and the other pick-on-the-new-guy/gal-conventions). I'm pretty sure their anger was never about you and much more about being forced into boneheadedness.

As for the DM problems of your brother. Ask if he wants any input. Emphasize that even the very best of artists still need a soundboard and that a fundamental part of human learning and thinking constitutes of talking to others. Give examples where you learned from others and examples of mistakes you've made, admit our own insecurities as a game master. Showing you're human significantly increases chances he's willing to listen and converse.