Epic Level Build help

[rmaunus]

Hey guys, we're building characters over here for an epic level one-to-three shot campaign, and I wanted to use one of two builds I found online, but because of the level we're building our characters at, it will leave me with 12 to 13 levels I think to make up for, and I have no idea where to start for them. We're playing using 3.5 and Pathfinder material.

Here are the links for the builds I want to use:

DINOTASTIC (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/DINOTASTIC_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build))

Machine Gun Assassin (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Machine_Gun_Assassin_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Bui ld))

And these are the stipulations for character creation we were given: "level 33, 46 point buy, +5 from wishes to every stat. Don't worry about wealth and items quite yet. All classes in official sources (please don't break tier 1 classes too much) and from The Warrior's Way (except Journeyman). Homebrew is allowed case by case"

If you guys can help point me in a good direction for these I'd be really grateful!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The Machine Gun Assassin relies on Sudden Strike damage, which is Worse Than Sneak Attack™. Sudden Strike relies on the opponent being flat-footed, which the build uses invisibility to obtain. In the epic levels, everything has True Seeing always active as a supernatural ability, so you'll never be invisible or be able to hide, ever. It is not a viable build for the epic levels. Furthermore, the higher level you get the higher the percentage of opponents you'll find that are outright immune to sneak attack and other precision-based damage, in the epic levels you'll almost never get to deal this type of damage short of shenanigans that this build is not capable of.

The Dinotastic build uses Charge + Pounce + Skirmish, again it's precision-based damage that nearly everything you fight will be outright immune to. Plus the Fleshraker form loses most of its appeal in the higher levels, as there are just better forms out there that this build cannot use due to wild shape size limitations. Furthermore, taking the form of another creature will exclude your +5 Wish bonus to your physical ability scores, as you'll use the assumed form's physical stats instead of your own. Again, this is not a viable build for the epic levels. To make things worse, that build uses Vow of Poverty, which is nothing but a downgrade especially for an epic character.

"Don't worry about wealth and items quite yet" is a red flag, characters cannot function without their items especially in the epic levels. There's a huge list of necessary item effects (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items) that are absolutely necessary for survival, especially in the epic levels. At that level, your character will die if you do not have every effect on that list in one form or another. For that reason, I'm going to strongly recommend that you make a spellcaster who can keep their buffs active all day long. Wizard or Cleric would be the base class of choice here, though Archivist, Druid, or Sorcerer would work but only if done right. A nonwizard would be highly dependent on magic items, and a Wizard would be dependent on a spellbook, so in the case of you-wake-up-without-any-items any character will be screwed. There are also ways of breaking casters via story, such as all-the-gods-are-dead-and-magic-doesn't-work. However, there are ways around all of that which you need to plan for.

You're not going to reach level 33 without being the most ruthless, lucky, self-sufficient, and paranoid bastard you've ever laid eyes on. Chances are your character will have a mental stat in the thirties, which is easily twice as smart/wise/charming as the smartest/wisest/most charming human who's ever lived. He'll have a backup plan for every possible situation, and another backup plan for every way each of those backup plans could fail. Not only can a spellcaster buff himself to invulnerability, he'll also have plenty of buffs left over to make himself a god in the combat mode of your choosing. If you want to make a Wizard, use Eidetic Spellcaster from Dragon 357 so you won't need a spellbook, if you make a Cleric take Servant of the Fallen in Lost Empires of Faerun so you continue getting spells from a dead deity. In either case you want the Initiate of Mystra feat in PGtF which requires three levels of Cleric and allows you to continue casting spells in antimagic and dead magic areas, plus the old Mystra is dead so Servant of the Fallen still works. You won't need a spellbook, you won't need magic items, you can buff yourself and cast spells despite magic not working and all the gods being dead, which inevitably happens in an epic game.

With Wizard you'll want Incantatrix and a high enough Spellcraft check to take ten and always succeed in persisting all your spells via Cooperative Metamagic and Metamagic Effect. With a Cleric you'll want multiple sources of turn/rebuke undead effects, each of which will give you additional uses from Extra Turning, all of which can power Divine Metamagic to Persist your spells. This is so you can persist tons of buffs without hauling around a cartload of nightsticks. There are at least four different types that count as Turn/Rebuke Undead for purposes of using feats like Divine Metamagic (Destroy Undead, Rebuke Dragons, Turn Undead, Rebuke Undead), all of which you can get on a single character especially at that level, though it can be a bit complicated. An Archivist can do everything a Cleric can do and more, but he requires a Prayerbook which is basically a divine spellbook and there's no way to get out of needing it to prepare spells, so avoid that. A Sorcerer with a custom Runestaff to get around the limited number of spells known is basically a Wizard with a dependence on a crucial item that makes him useless if it's taken away, so avoid this as well.

TL;DR: Neither of those two builds you're interested in are incapable of pulling their weight in an epic game, play a Wizard or Cleric instead and be able to do all that same stuff and more.