Medium to Small Size Stat Change.

[Timballisto]

What stat changes occur when a creature shrinks from medium to tiny size? I know the creature gains a +2 size bonus to AC and attack rolls, a -8 size penalty to Grapple checks, and a +8 size bonus to Hide checks. Are there any other changes?

I'm playing a Warforged who, through a magical mishap, was permanently shrunk to tiny size. I soon purchased a "Ring of Resizing" to get back to medium size. Everything was fine for a while untill the group fought an Elder Black Pudding. We sent it running, but not before it dissolved everyone's possesions. Now I'm stuck at tiny with no items.

My DM says I incur the above changes as well as lose CON and STR and other associated stats according to this chart (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases). I'm not exactly sure how to read the chart going from medium to tiny. I asked about this in the Simple Q&A and only got the "+2 size bonus to AC and attack rolls, a -8 size penalty to Grapple checks, and +8 size bonus to Hide checks" answer. Is that all there is to it? I would argue that the latter changes are only for monsters that gain HD, and wouldn't apply to shrinking.

[Talya]

What stat changes occur when a creature shrinks from medium to tiny size? I know the creature gains a +2 size bonus to AC and attack rolls, a -8 size penalty to Grapple checks, and a +8 size bonus to Hide checks. Are there any other changes?

I'm playing a Warforged who, through a magical mishap, was permanently shrunk to tiny size. I soon purchased a "Ring of Resizing" to get back to medium size. Everything was fine for a while untill the group fought an Elder Black Pudding. We sent it running, but not before it dissolved everyone's possesions. Now I'm stuck at tiny with no items.

My DM says I incur the above changes as well as lose CON and STR and other associated stats according to this chart (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases). I'm not exactly sure how to read the chart going from medium to tiny. I asked about this in the Simple Q&A and only got the "+2 size bonus to AC and attack rolls, a -8 size penalty to Grapple checks, and +8 size bonus to Hide checks" answer. Is that all there is to it? I would argue that the latter changes are only for monsters that gain HD, and wouldn't apply to shrinking.


That won't be playable if you were a strength based melee class.

Going from Tiny to Medium gives you: +8 str, +2 con, -4 dex. By your DM's ruling, you'll do that in reverse: -8 str, -2 con, +4 dex.

[Deophaun]

You should ask your DM to reconsider, as that's based on creatures increasing in size based on an increase in HD, not magical effects. In other words, that chart is taking into account more than just size.

Ask him to base your magical effect on a similar magical effect: reduce person or compression. That means you get a -4 to Strength, a +4 to Dex, +2 to attack rolls, +2 to AC, +8 to Hide, and a Reach of 0.

[Timballisto]

I would like to get opinions from everyone. Can anyone think of any changes besides +2 size bonus to AC and attack rolls, a -8 size penalty to Grapple checks, and a +8 size bonus to Hide checks? Is anyone sure that the -8 str, -2 con, +4 dex applies to my character when moving from medium to tiny size?

I want to be absolutely sure. It's a strength-based melee character, it would be devastating.

[Talya]

I would like to get opinions from everyone. Can anyone think of any changes besides +2 size bonus to AC and attack rolls, a -8 size penalty to Grapple checks, and a +8 size bonus to Hide checks? Is anyone sure that the -8 str, -2 con, +4 dex applies to my character when moving from medium to tiny size?

I want to be absolutely sure. It's a strength-based melee character, it would be devastating.

No. The only one who's sure they apply to your character is your DM (which is the problem.) I actually agree with treating it like a pair of "Reduce Person" spells stacking on top of each other. But ultimately, this is a custom magical effect, and the results are up to your DM.

I don't think it's a very nice situation to put a strength based melee character in.

[Urpriest]

Every item does this differently. The DM will have written up the item, and it will list explicitly any size bonuses or penalties to stats. The only "standard" thing are the AC and attack bonuses, as stated in the thread, since the rest of the bonuses your DM is mentioning are for monster advancement, not magical size change.

If your DM hasn't decided yet, they should base the item's stat changes on its prerequisite spell.