Stormwrack Ship to Ship Combat Opinions

[HMS Invincible]

What do you guys think of Stormwrack's ship vs ship combat. I got kinda lost with ships having hull sections (which have individual HP) and noticing that each section has -3 AC, HP and a sink value. Can anyone show what a typical ship to ship combat encounter looks like? What would happen if a guy on a seamount attacked a ship? Say a caraval/sailing ship gets hit by a ironclad with a heavy and light mounts. How would combat work with range penalties, and maneuvering?

[Starchild7309]

I have done the ship to ship combat and to be completely honest, unless you have PC's that are heavily into Ship to ship combat and have the right skills and abilities to be involved constantly, it becomes tedious as a lot of the rolls and attacks are behind the screen and its me describing the chaos that goes on around them.

I had a group that was just traveling on a caravel attacked by a similar caravel and by the 5th round of combat with the captains trying to out maneuver and everything strategy wise my players got bored quickly. The better and more effective choice I found was to have a small, more experienced crew sneak onto the ship in the middle of the night and try to overrun the ship. Everyone was involved and I still used some of the ships ranged abilities, but it wasn't as tedious and my players could actually do something other than try to patch ships or wait til the ships finally became entangled to repel boarders.

That's just my opinion though, perhaps following all the in depth rules will make your player's over joyed if they are geared to sea warfare. Mine were not and I hate to lose a PC just cause he gets knocked overboard and drowns in his armor.

[Lightlawbliss]

first: ask your group how detailed and accurate they want to be. Some groups like hostile diplomacy, other like accuracy, but not many like both at once.

second: remember that it is often better to try to get away than to stay around to fight, especially for merchants and transports.

third: most groups will be fine with the ship as a whole just having hp and having thresholds in that hp for certain things happening.

[Averis Vol]

I'm also running a campaign where ship to ship combat is a somewhat important part of the game. So far I've avoided any attempts at avoiding boarding, saying it was really something that only the royal navy does for want of not getting into close combat, and just had a few rounds worth of volleys while they closed the gap.

I do this because, 1) my players aren't really naval warfare buffs, so it doesn't actually interest them 2) no one ever invests in any relevant skills, so the system is fairly worthless.

[Sartharina]

I have done the ship to ship combat and to be completely honest, unless you have PC's that are heavily into Ship to ship combat and have the right skills and abilities to be involved constantly, it becomes tedious as a lot of the rolls and attacks are behind the screen and its me describing the chaos that goes on around them.

I had a group that was just traveling on a caravel attacked by a similar caravel and by the 5th round of combat with the captains trying to out maneuver and everything strategy wise my players got bored quickly. The better and more effective choice I found was to have a small, more experienced crew sneak onto the ship in the middle of the night and try to overrun the ship. Everyone was involved and I still used some of the ships ranged abilities, but it wasn't as tedious and my players could actually do something other than try to patch ships or wait til the ships finally became entangled to repel boarders.

That's just my opinion though, perhaps following all the in depth rules will make your player's over joyed if they are geared to sea warfare. Mine were not and I hate to lose a PC just cause he gets knocked overboard and drowns in his armor.

...why were the players not the ones controlling their ship?

[HMS Invincible]

I'm also running a campaign where ship to ship combat is a somewhat important part of the game. So far I've avoided any attempts at avoiding boarding, saying it was really something that only the royal navy does for want of not getting into close combat, and just had a few rounds worth of volleys while they closed the gap.

I do this because, 1) my players aren't really naval warfare buffs, so it doesn't actually interest them 2) no one ever invests in any relevant skills, so the system is fairly worthless.

This is what I'm probably going to end up doing unless someone gives me a good explanation of how ship to ship combat works. If a ship has a -3 AC, then the only thing that works must be really low attack bonuses, like +0 and a bunch of penalties for distance, evasive maneuvers and bad aim.

I don't have too much of a problem for sink values and hull sections, it just means I need to represent the ship as multiple objects, and that the player can only reach certain objects. The bigger problem is I can't find where heavy ship weaponry and ship ac resolve themselves.

[Mizr]

Unless you have players who are really into the whole ship to ship thing, having the PCs board enemy vessels is better. Its a cramped environment which makes combat interesting, and frankly, its profitable.

1. Board Ship.
2. Capture Ship.
3. Profit.

One of my most memorable characters was a half-orc Royal Marine Captain who was a Barbarian/Menacing Brute. He wielded a falchion and was spec'd for crits/power attack. First battle in he lead his Marines aboard an enemy ship along with the ship's mage, a Kobold. The endgame boss dominated the Kobold after he slaughtered the sailors on the deck, and then the Kobold slaughtered my characters Marines. We faced off, my character just barely won, thanks to a critical hit. It was exciting, and extremely rewarding (the ship we captured was an ironclad, as before we just had a caravel).

[Starchild7309]

...why were the players not the ones controlling their ship?

Because they players put zero resources into anything related to running, captaining, or even working on a ship. They went straight murder hobo. They hired a crew of NPC's to run the ship like a taxi for them. I did have one PC who had appropriate skills but he basically committed suicide the session before and he rerolled a murder hobo with no skills.

On a side note on this, I had told all the players during character creation and during level ups that they would spend long periods at sea. I normally don't want to spoil anything for them, but I felt since every campaign we have done before has been never involved a boat that I would warn them to plan accordingly....they did not at all so I let them give orders to the captain, but giving orders and actually being involved in the ship battle until they came along side one another are two different things.

[hymer]

@ Starchild: That seems to indicate that the flaw in the situation is not the Stormwrack ship combat system. Regular D&D combat is likewise pretty boring if you're watching a lot of other people fight.
You and your players need to get on the same page here (conversation helps). Either they (all of them) make PCs suitable for naval combat, or you stop running naval battles for which they are ill-suited.

[Starchild7309]

@ Starchild: That seems to indicate that the flaw in the situation is not the Stormwrack ship combat system. Regular D&D combat is likewise pretty boring if you're watching a lot of other people fight.
You and your players need to get on the same page here (conversation helps). Either they (all of them) make PCs suitable for naval combat, or you stop running naval battles for which they are ill-suited.

I understand what you are saying and while I did communicate with them, only one of them listened to what I had to say. I am not saying the system does not work, but it becomes tedious if your players are not suited for that sort of combat and not fully involved. I tried it once, found that since my players did not take my advice or heed my warnings that I just tweeked how I would run ocean ship to ship encounters. I was just passing along my experiences not saying you should shelve the whole system. It was more of a warning, like hey if your players are geared towards it, sure its probably pretty good, but if they aren't then it can get boring quickly.

Other than the skill monkey in the group everyone else in the party I am running wears heavy armor and has no desire to come out on deck. (I may be at blame for that in that I killed an NPC the second session by having them knocked overboard and drowned, putting the fear of water in my PCs hearts. I did so with the idea of showing them how dangerous the open ocean can be. I will also state that it was their idea to take the boat out, not forced by story line or anything.)

[hymer]

The equation doesn't change because one side communicates ineffectively. You still have to apply the same solution, but burdened and enlightened by experience, you have to make it stick this time. E.g.:
Talk to your players in plenum about the problematic scene before the next session. Ask them how they think you all should handle it: Rebuild characters; stop using ship-combat rules; or if they have any alternative solutions. Decide together and go from there.