Party Build Help

[gerard_sunmane]

Hey all, first actual post, though I've read quite a bit over the years.

Currently in a 3.5 campaign that has a high focus on role-playing and good in-game explanations for obtaining feats, learning spells, etc. There is a lot of potential for creativity (i.e. inventing spells), but that is also time consuming (in-game) and expensive. It is one of the funnest I have played, but we are currently getting to the point where inexperienced players that have chosen idiotic character builds are unable to down stronger baddies.

I am playing a specialist Transmuter (banned Evoc and Ench), and I feel like I have done a pretty good job filling the control/arcanist party role. Problem is there are limited resources so I can't be as much of the "goddamn batman" as I would like. Additionally, the rest of my party looks like this:

-a stupid bard - the player is inexperienced, and really all she does is run away or help out with singing every once in a while
-a ranger (ranged), that is pretty experienced, but has nowhere near the DPS we need, gets raped in melee, and worries about his Animal Comp wolf way too much
-random fighters, barbarians, etc. that have either died or been unable to play due to idiotic character builds/stupid playing or having to leave for summer break

There is potential for two new characters, and I was thinking of choosing between the three below. Can I get advice on which two to take, and best general build ideas for both. There is a big focus on PHB content, although some material from books like Complete Champion are k. DM has a good nose for cheese.

-Two-weapon fighting rogue - can fill the 'glass cannon' role
-Dwarven cleric - can be a defender/secondary caster
-Some sort of spiked chain build - my questions with this one are is the spiked chain good at higher levels and against larger and or flying creatures? If not, then what other builds can I go to for the meat shield/defender/zone control role?


Thanks in advance!!!

[JeminiZero]

-a stupid bard - the player is inexperienced, and really all she does is run away or help out with singing every once in a while
Try not to be too harsh on her. We were all inexperienced once, no? :smallsmile:

-Two-weapon fighting rogue - can fill the 'glass cannon' role
Look up the Penetrating Strike ACF from Dungeonscape, so that the rogue isn't completely screwed over by undead and constructs.

-Dwarven cleric - can be a defender/secondary caster
The usual advice here is DMM persist Divine Power if you can get your DM to approve the DMM feat (and nightsticks).

-Some sort of spiked chain build - my questions with this one are is the spiked chain good at higher levels and against larger and or flying creatures? If not, then what other builds can I go to for the meat shield/defender/zone control role?
The usual answer is Spiked Chain Crusader. But from the sound of it, your DM may not allow ToB. In which case Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?80415) may be more allowable.

[gerard_sunmane]

Thanks JeminiZero! I will look into those for sure.

The "stupid" comment was directed at the class, not the player. I don't like bards in general, although I know they have their champions if played correctly. It was just an interesting character choice that combined with her inexperience means she doesn't do much. :smallsmile:

Any other thoughts on the party build folks?

[Captnq]

Nuke the sight from orbit. Only way to be sure.

If you are optimizing, the rest of the group is hopeless. However, there are ways around the horrible choices. Equipment.

Get the bard a lute bow that has been enchanted to imitate Hank's energy bow. Or just stick with the basic lute-bow and have him plunk arrows for now.

Hank's energy bow for the ranger as well, but missile weapons are usually a poor choice. Maybe a gnome calculus and some splash weapons.

two weapon rogues are good at low levels, and increasingly useless at higher levels, unless you outfit with the right weapon augment crystals to compensate for critical immunity.

Dwarven cleric. Old stand by. Can't go wrong with a CoDzilla.

A spiked chain build can be fun, but, again, heavy dependance on equipment.

If you need help, look at my sig and check out the EVD. Combat Equipment section has most of my advice on the subject.

Or you could just graft tentacles to everyone. There isn't a character concept that couldn't stand to have a their arms chopped off and replaced with warforged limbs then have a few tentacles grafted about their body. Maug graft stone spikes and a shoulder mounted slug throwers might help as well, but those might be hard to come by. I don't recommend replacing your legs, however. I never found anything useful when it came to replacing your legs.