[3.5] Banning schools and spells known

[Valwyn]

So, just for fun I made a build that banned most spell schools (Wizard/Master Specialist/Red Wizard of Thay/Wizard of High Sorcery/Incantartrix, if you're curious), and I ended up with Divination and Abjuration as my only schools. Now, I know that I never get to add spells from the first two schools I banned to my spellbook, but what about the others? Can I still prepare spells from those schools or does my spellbook show me pages full of 404: Spell Not Found?

[nedz]

School Specialization
...
Spells of the prohibited school or schools are not available to the wizard, and she can’t even cast such spells from scrolls or fire them from wands. She may not change either her specialization or her prohibited schools later.
This is the section from the Wizard class entry. Assuming that all of your banning follows the same rule, this should answer your question.

[HunterOfJello]

A wizard's "spells known" is defined as the spells in his spellbook. Someone else could write spells into your spellbook. If you do that, then you would have spells from your banned schools "known" (though you still wouldn't be able to prepare and cast them).

[Zweisteine]

First, I ask will why you would choose to ban all your schools.

Then I'll answer your question, if I can.

Why would you choose to ban all but two schools?

Incantatrix, at least, allows you to continue casting spells you already knew from the schools it banned. I don't know about the other classes. (A loose reading of Incantatrix might let you cast all spells you previously knew, even if another PrC bans more schools, but don't count on it.)

[nedz]

A wizard's "spells known" is defined as the spells in his spellbook. Someone else could write spells into your spellbook. If you do that, then you would have spells from your banned schools "known" (though you still wouldn't be able to prepare and cast them).

Where is this defined ?

Though I think I may have spotted a contradiction in the rules relating to this.

Spellbooks

A wizard must study her spellbook each day to prepare her spells. She cannot prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook, except for read magic, which all wizards can prepare from memory.



15 + spell level Learn a spell from a spellbook or scroll (wizard only). No retry for that spell until you gain at least 1 rank in Spellcraft (even if you find another source to try to learn the spell from). Requires 8 hours.
15 + spell level Prepare a spell from a borrowed spellbook (wizard only). One try per day. No extra time required.


So a Wizard can only prepare spells from her own spellbook but can prepare them from a Borrowed book.
Maybe this is one for the Dysfunctional rules thread ?

[TuggyNE]

Where is this defined ?


For wizards, knowing a spell means having it in their spellbooks.

Originally from the PHB, so primary source works just fine here.


So a Wizard can only prepare spells from her own spellbook but can prepare them from a Borrowed book.

Nah. Wizards can prepare spells from their own book with no check, but Spellcraft enables them, if they pass the check, to prepare also from a borrowed book, which would not otherwise be possible.

[Curmudgeon]

Having a spell in a spellbook is necessary, but not sufficient, for it to be a "known spell". Here's the full Glossary entry (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_knownspell&alpha=K):
known spell

A spell that an arcane spellcaster has learned and can prepare. For wizards, knowing a spell means having it in their spellbooks. For sorcerers and bards, knowing a spell means having selected it when acquiring new spells as a benefit of level advancement. A Wizard may be able to add higher-level spells to their spellbook in advance of qualifying to prepare them. Those inscribed spells do not yet meet the known spells specification.
In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level. Spells from prohibited schools, even if know, are no longer available to the Wizard; nedz already covered that.

[Lord Vukodlak]

This is the section from the Wizard class entry. Assuming that all of your banning follows the same rule, this should answer your question.

It depends on the class,


He can still use the prohibited spells he knew prior to becoming a Red Wizard,

He can still use the prohibited spells he knew prior to becoming a Wizard of High Sorcery, including using items that are activated by spell completion or spell trigger.

However the 3.5 version of the incantatrix lacks that proviso.

[nedz]

Nah. Wizards can prepare spells from their own book with no check, but Spellcraft enables them, if they pass the check, to prepare also from a borrowed book, which would not otherwise be possible.

OK, so specific trumps general.

[TuggyNE]

OK, so specific trumps general.

Yup. Sometimes it actually works! *gasp*

[Valwyn]

First, I ask will why you would choose to ban all your schools.

Just for fun. I wanted to see what a wizard with only two schools (that aren't Conjuration or Transmutation) could do.


It depends on the class,

That's what I thought, but wanted to make sure.

So, what would happen if your spellbook is stolen/destroyed? Could you prepare the banned spells you had access to from another spellbook? For example, you banned Evocation at character level 7, so you couldn't prepare Fire Shield (because you banned the school before learning it), but could you prepare Fireball if you had it in your original spellbook?