3.5 magic rules question

[Cigam3679]

What ability modifier do you use when you are attacking with a magic spell, i am a duskblade and i want to use Kelgore's firebolt. would i not use my base attack bonus with my intel mod for the attack bonus? i have played for years and now people are arguing that you are suppose to use your dex mod instead since it is a ranged attack. I cant find any rules on it.

[Dorian Gray]

Fire bolt, like most offensive spells, is a Ranged Touch Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardCastaSpell) (scroll down a bit), and as such is treated as a ranged attack that targets the enemy's touch AC. That is, you roll 1d20+BAB+dex mod and have to hit their AC, but they don't get armor bonuses (although spells like mage armor do increase touch AC, I believe). In short, yes, you do use your dex mod, not your int mod (although hitting a touch ac is really easy).

[KillianHawkeye]

In 4th Edition you use your class' primary ability score for all your attacks, but in 3rd it has always been Strength for melee attacks and Dexterity for ranged attacks, even if you're using magic instead of weapons.

[hymer]

The rules are under Spell Descriptions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm). Go down to Aiming a Spell and then to Ray under Effect. It's on page 175 in my PHB. That's where you find the rule that you "aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon". Ranged weapons are modified by dex, unless there is some specific reason (like the Zen Archery feat) that they shouldn't.

THAT SAID: Kelgore's Firebolt does not use attack rolls. It's reflex save for half in my PHB2. That means the base save DC is 10 + 1 (level 1 spell) + your int modifier (because the casting stat for duskblade is Int).

[HighWater]

THAT SAID: Kelgore's Firebolt does not use attack rolls. It's reflex save for half in my PHB2. That means the base save DC is 10 + 1 (level 1 spell) + your int modifier (because the casting stat for duskblade is Int).

THIS. Kelgore's Firebolt doesn't require an attack roll. It only requires line of sight and line of effect.
Compare Fire Bolt (not a ranged touch attack) with Disrupt Undead (a ranged touch attack)


Kelgore’s Fire Bolt Conjuration/Evocation [Fire]
Level: Duskblade 1, sorcerer/wizard 1
Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: See text

Disrupt Undead Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 0
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
It will say in the spell description if you have to make a (ranged) touch attack.
A normal touch attack uses STR, a ranged touch attack uses DEX.

@Dorian Gray: Mage armor only applies against melee attacks made by incorporeals in the sense that incorporeals normally attack Touch AC as they ignore normal armor. It doesn't apply to ranged touch attacks and also doesn't help against touch attacks made by corporeal creatures or against spells that are touch attacks, even when the spell is applied by incorporeal creatures.

[Dorian Gray]

Herp derp. Yeah, I don't have my books with me right now. :smallredface:

[RolandDeschain]

Yep, ranged touch attack uses dex, but it doesn't sound like that spell requires such an attack. I would also point out that there are a number of spells that do allow you to attack with your primary casting modifier, and in those cases it is always stated in the spell description. For example, check out the Whirling Blade spell description.

[Gildedragon]

A couple exceptions to the Dex rule: with the Zen Archery feat one can use Wis for RTAs
and the spells Whirling Blade, and Thunder Lance uses the primary casting stat for the attack roll

[Cigam3679]

Ok thank you all. Last time i ever played a mage like character in 3.5 D&D i was about 12ish. Thank you again